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Birds and Slippery Slope Have Been Removed!


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what will you cry for next?

outflanked?

"the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed""siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"" the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"" ..."

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@"melandru.3876" said:what will you cry for next?

outflanked?

"the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed""siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"" the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"" ..."Great suggestions hah!

To be honest I only had problem with slippery slope in some areas the could have just turned it off and back on again through jumping areas and puzzles.

Birds on the other hand was just flat out annoying. Making you waste dodges in critical areas and sometimes you were so congested you couldn't tell they were on you right away which would not be that big of deal other than the blinding and wasting skills. The big difference between Birds and Outflanked is one can be avoided for the most part and the other could not.

This is not about skill its about the fun and replay ability to fractals. You will notice the amount of players doing fractals fluctuate depending on what fractal and instability set it has. Some people don't want the hassle. There needs to be a balance of difficult and fun and birds tended to move it rather drastically in the wrong direction.

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@Excursion.9752 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:what will you cry for next?

outflanked?

"the harpies in uncategorized hit to hard when i try to skim them, outflanked needs to be removed""siegemaster dulfy is too hard in urban battleground with outflanked i die even before i reach gate"" the adds in volcanic fractal are too strong with outflanked"" ..."Great suggestions hah!

To be honest I only had problem with slippery slope in some areas the could have just turned it off and back on again through jumping areas and puzzles.

Birds on the other hand was just flat out annoying. Making you waste dodges in critical areas and sometimes you were so congested you couldn't tell they were on you right away which would not be that big of deal other than the blinding and wasting skills. The big difference between Birds and Outflanked is one can be avoided for the most part and the other could not.

This is not about skill its about the fun and replay ability to fractals. You will notice the amount of players doing fractals fluctuate depending on what fractal and instability set it has. Some people don't want the hassle. There needs to be a balance of difficult and fun and birds tended to move it rather drastically in the wrong direction.

slippery slope was easy to deal with really, allow me to use my post from another thread

@"melandru.3876" said:i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is. you get moved to a position you don't want to (sucked to the edge) so you counter it my moving to the oppsite direction (centre)

result= you stay at your spot and are free to dps boss

it's the exact kitten way with slippery slope, but god forbid we have to do something other then range from centre with 6k dps right (yes, had warriors using rifle....)

if you can do molten boss, you can do slipperythe issue here is not WANTING to do it, instead of not being ABLE to do it

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@"melandru.3876" said:the issue here is not WANTING to do it, instead of not being ABLE to do it

Exactly. You nailed it 100%, only you aren't making the point you think you're making.

This wasn't about players "not gud" enough to complete fractals with this instability, it was about this instability making the fractal more of a chore, and less fun to play than before they were introduced. Players like myself who completed their fractals every day with every instability started queuing up less and less because they were too much of a headache.

The goal of every MMO dev is to get players in game for as long as possible as often as possible. If you introduce something that causes players to play less, that's a screw up, and so they try to fix it.

We get it; you thought the instability was fun and now it's gone (for the time being). If fractals are no longer fun for you, then I would invite you to choose the same path taken by those who hated it, and stop playing fractals. I think though, you will find that players who think like you are a miniscule minority; player feedback has been overwhelmingly negative on both these instabilities - one only has to take a few moments to read the forums, reddit, or talk with other players in game.

EDIT: or in other words, from a developer's point of view, more players will return to doing fractals than those who will leave because these instabilities are removed. That's a net gain in their eyes.

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What are you guys so happy about? You do realize what this means and what this is? Instead of fixing instabilities, maybe add a real scaling system to gw2, they just removed the two deemed most annoying by a vocal minority, to appease that vocal minority.This fixes NOTHING. This still leaves RNG instabilities, a chaotic non-balancing and other way more problematic instabilities than these two. And now you can be sure, that nothing else will be done anymore. With the RNG instability system now firmly in place, fractals will bleed more and more players until fractals end up like dungeons. Because the problem never was slippery slope or birds. But whatever, go celebrate your pyrrhic victory ! You earned it.

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@hugo.4705 said:Yay no more annoying birds! Praise Joko, the six, the pale tree, the eternal alchemy , the spirits and the legions six times!

Until now i used to worship the Mad King only.But yeah now I'll also pray for the Six, Spirits of the Wild, Eternal Alchemy and even... the Pale Tree.We'll always be grateful for this ! Especially fo slippery*

Ps : cant pray for Joko's meat sorry =p

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@"Yasi.9065" said:What are you guys so happy about? You do realize what this means and what this is? Instead of fixing instabilities, maybe add a real scaling system to gw2, they just removed the two deemed most annoying by a vocal minority, to appease that vocal minority.This fixes NOTHING. This still leaves RNG instabilities, a chaotic non-balancing and other way more problematic instabilities than these two. And now you can be sure, that nothing else will be done anymore. With the RNG instability system now firmly in place, fractals will bleed more and more players until fractals end up like dungeons. Because the problem never was slippery slope or birds. But whatever, go celebrate your pyrrhic victory ! You earned it.

What makes you think it's "instead of"? Left up to me, I would have left them instabs alone and worked on tweaking. However, given the levels of dislike from even calm|cool|collected players, maybe ANet was right to remove now, fix later instead of leave alone, fix later.

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@Yasi.9065 said:deemed most annoying by a vocal minority, to appease that vocal minority.

Citation required.

@Yasi.9065 said:And now you can be sure, that nothing else will be done anymore.

Citation required.

@Yasi.9065 said:With the RNG instability system now firmly in place, fractals will bleed more and more players until fractals end up like dungeons.

Citation required.

I'm not quite sure I understand why you think you know things that you can't possibly know? These are all just your OPINIONS, yet you present them as irrefutable truths?

Observe:

In my opinion,

  • the people who found these instabilities annoying were the majority, while those who liked them were the vocal minority
  • ANET is currently working on improving and balancing existing instabilities while planning on releasing new ones
  • With these two instabilities removed, more players will return to fractals, making that game mode more populated than it is currently.

See how that works?

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@Memoranda.9386 said:Glad birbs are gone.

Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

Don't give them any ideas or next istab will change randomly the movement direction keys, lol.Ooops

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@phs.6089 said:

@Memoranda.9386 said:Glad birbs are gone.

Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

Don't give them any ideas or next istab will change randomly the movement direction keys, lol.Ooops

I would immeadiately buy a toy that made the effect of Slippery Slope happen to your character. Just sayin', ANet.

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@Memoranda.9386 said:Glad birbs are gone.

Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

yass. couldn't have spoken better. i'm glad birdies be gone. lol. but they could have been worked up for better targeting and tune into something instead of wasting everyone's dodge.

i don't understand why slippery slope is gone though. it became my most favorite follow closely by social awkwardness cuz bumper car too xDit should have been dismissed from fractals that have a lot of dissapearing tiles or parts of fractals that you have to go through small tunnels/jumping parts. urgh i want it back.

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This is a welcome change for any class who cares about positioning like daredevil/flanking thief/ranger and positional healers like renegade or certain builds like chronomancer. I'm glad Slippery Slope is gone.

Didn't see the problem with birds outside Swampland fractal. Outlfnaked is actually much worse on Ascalonian fractal among other things but none of those are truly what one calls annoying like Slippery Slope.

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If it were up to me, I would just have changed the mechanics so they only trigger during combat.

I guess ANet has the statistics to know whether these instabilities really impacted the playerbase in a negative way: they just have to count how many fractals are done daily, and cross that versus the anomalies present in them. As long as they do that sort of verification, it isn't wrong to consider "vocal minorities".

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Both instabilities were counter intuitive to the games basic design and mechanics, I've said so in the past. While I was fine with both, I did concede that people might find them not fun.

Slipper Slope had no proper way to deal with, besides adapting to a new movement style and was also very different between classes affected. Classes with a lot of dodges or skill which reposition them (Daredevil, Mirage) were less affected, classes which were relying on precise positioning were very affected (Chrono wells).

Birds was just completely counter designed to the games targeting and target caps. The damage was almost insignificant (especially after the initial nerf). Putting blind AND a target amount increase on one instability in a game with target caps of 3-5 while at the same time requiring the usage of a dodge was just to much. Could have been remedied by removing some of the elements as I had suggested (maybe just make birds blind you until dodge).

I like the change to We Bleed Fire, makes bringing reflects even more useful encouraging creative game play (though I haven't seen the new one in action yet since I had done fractals yesterday pre patch).

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@Hex.2579 said:

@"Memoranda.9386" said:Glad birbs are gone.

Extremely sad that Slippery Slope is gone. No more Sugar Rush/Slippery Slope/Social Awkwardness bumper car shenanigans.

I would have preferred that Slippery Slope be blacklisted from more areas/Fractals.

yass. couldn't have spoken better. i'm glad birdies be gone. lol. but they could have been worked up for better targeting and tune into something instead of wasting everyone's dodge.

i don't understand why slippery slope is gone though. it became my most favorite follow closely by social awkwardness cuz bumper car too xDit should have been dismissed from fractals that have a lot of dissapearing tiles or parts of fractals that you have to go through small tunnels/jumping parts. urgh i want it back.

Because most Fractals vets surprisingly actually enjoy playing Fractals and GW2's combat, not bumper car, or at least not instead of Fractals.

GW2's biggest strength is it's movement and combat systems, and that's the reason a majority of people return to play this content daily even after having done it literally hundreds of times for years.As much as a Minigame with Slippery Slope and Social Awkwardness mechanics could be fun to do now and then when you choose to do so (and could be a cool thing to add to the game somewhere), that's not what most people come to Fractals for.

I see a lot of people screaming Git Gud and that people critical of Slippery were simply complainers who couldn't handle the "difficulty" of it, but the matter of fact is that I've never seen or heard of people unable to complete Fractals with Slippery on. While I'm sure they exist, it's certainly not the veteran players who have been complaining about Slippery Slope, nor any sort of majority.

Slippery Slope simply changed the core gameplay of GW2, which most people come to enjoy when getting into endgame content like Fractals, too much.It was never about difficulty, it's about Fractals with Slippery not delivering the fun GW2 gameplay experience that the seemingly majority of players came for.

Then it's simply a matter of the casual players who really enjoyed Slippery probably still joining Fractals at a similar frequency without Slippery for the rewards and good gameplay etc., while veteran players making up the important core of the player base of the mode, who already have everything but enjoy the gameplay, who care about speed, performance and efficiency, not leaving the gamemode in droves any more.

It's a pretty clear decision to make, and I hope to see a lot of good players who have quit playing Fractals recently because this simply wasn't fun for them, coming back.

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@"Asum.4960" said:I see a lot of people screaming Git Gud and that people critical of Slippery were simply complainers who couldn't handle the "difficulty" of it, but the matter of fact is that I've never seen or heard of people unable to complete Fractals with Slippery on. While I'm sure they exist, it's certainly not the veteran players who have been complaining about Slippery Slope, nor any sort of majority.

Slippery Slope simply changed the core gameplay of GW2, which most people come to enjoy when getting into endgame content like Fractals, too much.It was never about difficulty, it's about Fractals with Slippery not delivering the fun GW2 gameplay experience that the seemingly majority of players came for.

Then it's simply a matter of the casual players who really enjoyed Slippery probably still joining Fractals at a similar frequency without Slippery for the rewards and good gameplay etc., while veteran players making up the important core of the player base of the mode, who already have everything but enjoy the gameplay, who care about speed, performance and efficiency, not leaving the gamemode in droves any more.

It's a pretty clear decision to make, and I hope to see a lot of good players who have quit playing Fractals recently because this simply wasn't fun for them, coming back.

It may well be true that its more about enjoyment factor for the average player that the developers has to take into account. But I hold you and some of the other members of the gw2 community squarely responsible for making it harder for the average player to get use to and enjoy fractals by perpetuating the lie that there are no counters to Slippery Slope when Slippery Slope has more counters (movement weapon and util skills, traits that lowered those skill CDs and dodging) than birds (only dodging).

Slippery Slope had been deliberately and falsely portrayed by some in the community as uncounterable. So when average players get into fractals they dont know how to counter it and gets no help from gw2 forums or reddit. Over time this drove negative sentiment towards this particular instability.

Slippery slope being uncounterable is the biggest lie that i've seen told by some in the gw2 community since the game's release.

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