When will the glamour trait come back ?

[viquing.8254]

It's been near a year that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

[Quadox.7834]

We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.

Domi: -Duel: -Chaos: manipulationInspiration: mantras, signetsIllusions: -

Domination also only has one weapon trait as opposed to two in duel/illusions.

My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.

Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

Domi: rending shatter, ...Dueling: desperate decoyChaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understandingIllusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

---

Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

edit: let's try to keep this thread somewhat bumped so anet will see it

[Xaylin.1860]

You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

If I had my way:

• New Glamour trait in Chaos
• Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

Damn... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

[SloRules.3560]

@Xaylin.1860 said:You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

If I had my way:

• New Glamour trait in Chaos
• Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

Glamour trait affecting etheral fields would be great imo.

[Abelisk.5148]

@Xaylin.1860 said:You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

If I had my way:

• New Glamour trait in Chaos
• Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.(Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

[storm.3120]

@viquing.8254 said:It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)@Quadox.7834 said:We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:Domi: rending shatter, egotismEgotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoyDesperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understandingIllusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

[Noodle Ant.1605]

@Quadox.7834 said:Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.phantasmal furyUnless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

[Xaylin.1860]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

If I had my way:

• New Glamour trait in Chaos
• Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.(Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

Noooo. I don't want it deleted. He didn't list it among weapon traits.

I'd like the new Glamour trait to be on the GM level in Chaos so it could also synergize with the Staff and Fall trait. Imagine stuff like 'Grant Chaos Armor to allies upon casting an Etheral field or a Glamour.' Group Protection with Staff trait... Yes. Second class Auramancer but I'd enjoy it.

Now... PU would probably have to be moved to Illusions GM (Torch and Escapist). Which would lead to more reshuffling. I personally don't care for Malicious Sorcery and could see merging it with MtD being the easiest solution. Maybe also merge Cry of Frustration with Master of Fragmentation and add a less niche Minor.

Since we're at it... Illusionary Inspiration should be the new GM minor in Inspiration. Healing Prism has been on life support since it got the ICD. This could open up some secondary Healer gameplay.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

If I had my way:

• New Glamour trait in Chaos
• Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.(Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

Noooo. I don't want it deleted. He didn't list it among weapon traits.

I'd like the new Glamour trait to be on the GM level in Chaos so it could also synergize with the Staff and Fall trait. Imagine stuff like 'Grant Chaos Armor to allies upon casting an Etheral field or a Glamour.' Group Protection with Staff trait... Yes. Second class Auramancer but I'd enjoy it.

Now... PU would probably have to be moved to Illusions GM (Torch and Escapist). Which would lead to more reshuffling. I personally don't care for Malicious Sorcery and could see merging it with MtD being the easiest solution. Maybe also merge Cry of Frustration with Master of Fragmentation and add a less niche Minor.

Since we're at it... Illusionary Inspiration should be the new GM minor in Inspiration. Healing Prism has been on life support since it got the ICD. This could open up some secondary Healer gameplay.

Yeah I only included then weapon traits in the lines where there are no utility traits on purpose. Ill make it more clear.

Also, while chaos or insp would be the obvious place to out the trait, I think that's what makes it less interest. I would rather see a dps/utility mesmer build than further buffs to the bruiser playstyle with chaos. Chaos id already very strong.

Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

[Quadox.7834]

@Odik.4587 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)@Quadox.7834 said:We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

Domi

: rending shatter, egotismEgotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

Dueling

: phantasmal fury, desperate decoyDesperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

Chaos

: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding

Illusions

: escape artist (lol @ this trait)Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

[storm.3120]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)@Quadox.7834 said:We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

Domi

: rending shatter, egotismEgotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

Dueling

: phantasmal fury, desperate decoyDesperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

Chaos

: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding

Illusions

: escape artist (lol @ this trait)Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

[Quadox.7834]

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.Yeah. The utility traits were generally better spread out, with signet in domination, mantras in dueling, manipulations in chaos, glamours in insp, "illusions" category in illusions.

phantasmal furyUnless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

I don't like phantasmal fury because 1. it is flat much worse than empowered illusions (+15% dmg) and 2. we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions). But yeah desperate decoy is better to replace anyway.

[Quadox.7834]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)@Quadox.7834 said:We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

Domi

: rending shatter, egotismEgotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

Dueling

: phantasmal fury, desperate decoyDesperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

Chaos

: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding

Illusions

: escape artist (lol @ this trait)Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

I mean that it is as boring as a sigil/rune effect. But anyway I don't really care about it since shattered concentration is there.

[storm.3120]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)@Quadox.7834 said:We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

Domi

: rending shatter, egotismEgotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

Dueling

: phantasmal fury, desperate decoyDesperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

Chaos

: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding

Illusions

: escape artist (lol @ this trait)Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

I mean that it is as boring as a sigil/rune effect. But anyway I don't really care about it since shattered concentration is there.

Well. Thats really bad thats its ended up being just 5% damage....and true its boring (and underwhelming imo) . Shattered concentration is the best choice but hardly remove many boons

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Sometime ago Odik and I talked about this on game and after some research, unless we missed something, there are only two types of skills on the entire game without any traits affecting them, spectral and glamour, spectral got buffed when ANet deleted the trait tho.

I don't use any glamour skills, except for the ocasional portal, but I agree 100% with this.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.phantasmal furyUnless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.

Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

[Quadox.7834]

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.phantasmal furyUnless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.It is strange to me that there should be three fairly generic +dmg to phantasm traits, in three completely different traitlines.

Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

Inspiration already has two utility traits so I dislike that.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.phantasmal furyUnless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.

Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

Inspiration already has two utility traits so I dislike that.The old trait line and utility setup as you had described it was probably the most ideal setup before it changed. The problem is that healing using the spammable 1s CD of mantra of pain became a thing (which is really weird in my eyes) and that there was ‘some’ synergy between the distortion on signet activation and Inspiring Distortion (which got gutted heavily anyway) so the devs decided to put both traits into inspiration - the more ‘group support-ish’ trait line while the actual skills themselves had totally nothing to do with group support. On the contrary, glamours skills screamed group support all this time yet they decided to remove for what reasons? Beats me.

[Xaylin.1860]

@Quadox.7834 said:Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

Personally, I don't agree. Illusions is quite powerful. Domination on the other hand is a messy pile of filler-trait. I also like Escape Artist much more than DD in Duelling.

Considering that SoI per trait is gone, both, Signets or Mantras could possibly go into Domination even though raiders might disagree on Signets. Creating a new Mantra trait for Domination might be a less controversial solution. Regardless, Inspiration needs less utility traits.

Phantasmal Fury is important for Sharper Images.

[Curunen.8729]

What's a glamour? :p

/s

Yeah would like to see a new glamour trait, whichever line it ends up in.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

Personally, I don't agree. Illusions is quite powerful. Domination on the other hand is a messy pile of filler-trait. I also like Escape Artist much more than DD in Duelling.Only powerful on condi, which is a non-issue, since this trait would compete with MoD. Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer. Domi isn't good but still decent for power mirage and used over illusions.

Considering that SoI per trait is gone, both, Signets or Mantras could possibly go into Domination even though raiders might disagree on Signets. Creating a new Mantra trait for Domination might be a less controversial solution. Regardless, Inspiration needs less utility traits.While there is something to be said for the "obvious" distribution like signets-domi, mantras-dueling, and so on, I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something "unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge.

Phantasmal Fury is important for Sharper Images.

[Quadox.7834]

More discussion points:

• In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
• If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
• One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
• Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
• Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
• Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.

[Xaylin.1860]

@Quadox.7834 said:Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer.

Duelling sees so much play because it's versatile. It's power traits aren't event that good. It's just that Domination has too many aweful traits.

@Quadox.7834 said:... I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something >"unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge...

For me, personally, a fitting theme does influence my fun and immersion. So I'll politely disagree and be anal about it. <3

@Quadox.7834 said:More discussion points:

• In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
• If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
• One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
• Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
• Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
• Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.

• I'm all for individual improvements. I still prefer my suggestion. ;)
• Damage to enemies is more of a Well-thing.
• Stunbreak on Portal-Exit :3
• Veil needs the Spectral Wall treatment and a CD shave.
• Glamours aren't for mobility. If you want mobility, decrease Portal cooldown, but decrease range and number of ports as well.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer.

Duelling sees so much play because it's versatile. It's power traits aren't event that good. It's just that Domination has too many aweful traits.Dueling is very good. BD, EM, permafury, DE, Superiority Complex all very good. Domination has one good trait for PvP, shattered concentration, and the vuln gives decent extra damage, otherwise yesh it's not very good.

@Quadox.7834 said:... I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something >"unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge...

For me, personally, a fitting theme does influence my fun and immersion. So I'll politely disagree and be anal about it. <3I have to say I doubt that. If the glamour trait already was in the illusions line (for ex) since release, I doubt you would be here talking about how it breaks the immersion. It's not like it's a massive upheaval of the 'mesmer theme' to not put glamour trait in chaos/insp.

Imo there isn't a strong case as to why they fit there at all aside from a single interaction with ether field + chaotic dampening but this interaction can still be used without putting a new glamour trait in chaos.Glamours are utility-focused and this works in any traitline on mesmer.

@Quadox.7834 said:More discussion points:

• In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
• If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
• One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
• Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
• Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
• Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.

• I'm all for individual improvements. I still prefer my suggestion. ;)Reason for my suggestion was to avoid the issue of the trait interacting badly with portal due to it being such a unique use-case utility. Your suggestion of chaos armour on glamour is useless for portal for example.
• Damage to enemies is more of a Well-thing.Then why does the well trait provide healing? Because that is how traits work; +10% damage (as an example) to enemies inside feedback wouldn't be less reasonable than other suggestions (not saying this is a good trait effect, there are better ones, +dmg was just an example of how you can easily make glamour trait fit in a non-chaos/insp traitline).
• Stunbreak on Portal-Exit :3Pretty useless, it is instant cast already.
• Veil needs the Spectral Wall treatment and a CD shave.
• Glamours aren't for mobility. If you want mobility, decrease Portal cooldown, but decrease range and number of ports as well.Signets are not for defense/damage mitigation, but trait still gives distortion. Glamours aren't for giving boons to allies either, which is basically what your suggestion does. They are for utility and giving superspeed can be called utility. Not saying it is a good idea even, just trying to come up with points of discussion to possibly make blink less mandatory (although that would probably require nerfs to blink which I'm sure would not get much support from mesmers in general). Also, my proposals (they weren't really suggestions) were made for the situation wherein the hypothetical trait gives different effects to each utility, so maybe either feedback, veil, or portal get superspeed while another gets resistance and yet another +dmg etc.

You also mentioned moving mantras to domination, but 2/4 mantras are supportive.

You say you like escape artist more than desperate decoy, which makes since desperate decoy is actively detrimental in many situations, but this doesn't change the fact that escape artist is a 150% completely terrible trait.

[Xaylin.1860]

We clearly have different opinions :p . That's okay for me - we both got arguments which make them reasonable.

Most traits you like and I dislike (and vice versa) probably come from our preferred playstyles.

• As you said yourself, Domination isn't picked because it is bad. Not because Duelling so great. In the end, especially Superiority Complex isn't that much different than Mental Anguish. Domination isn't picked because the Minors and lower tier traits are so underwhelming and one-dimensional. Duelling on the otherhand has something for everyone.
• If Glamours were in Illusions I would still be bothered. You could argue that the name fits but it clearly doesn't suit the other traits within the line. I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Plus, it doesn't matter to me wether we're discussing a status quo or theorycrafting. I want the game to be great and that involves challenging the status quo. My personal pick would be Chaos because it already has some form of area control and support.
• Regarding Signets, those are a bad example, to be honest. Signets always face this dilemma because they do too many different things. That's no Mesmer issue. I also don't see how this affects my suggestion. Glamours are supportive. Chaos is about boons. If a Glamour trait were in Chaos, it would make sense. Now, if my proposed trait was in Domination, it wouldn't make sense at all, of course. You can dislike my suggestion. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that it's well thought-out and consistent.
• SB on Portal isn't useless. It makes sense. It is not a real buff, I understand. ;) Blink will never become less appealing unless it is nerfed. It happens to be the perfect SB for Mesmers because it also offers mobility. The goal should be adding an option to Glamours. If you dislike SB on Portal Exit so much, then make it Portal Entry. Or even put it on Veil. Just slapping it on Feedback or Nullfield because the CDs are low, doesn't make much sense gameplay-wise.
• My suggestion for a Glamour trait isn't useless for Portal. It could either work like in the past - where Confusion was cast upon casting Portal Exit - or when passing through the portal. It would be 'useless' for Veil, as long as it is a Light field. :'(
• A damage buff on Feedback is something I'd enjoy and actually suggested in the past. Something that has been suggested before is pulsing Retaliation because it ties with the reflect as a melee counter. I might have misunderstood you there since you were talking about damage.

@Quadox.7834 said:You also mentioned moving mantras to domination, but 2/4 mantras are supportive.

You say you like escape artist more than desperate decoy, which makes since desperate decoy is actively detrimental in many situations, but this doesn't change the fact that escape artist is a 150% completely terrible trait.

Now, this is the point were I'm getting tired, to be honest.How does this aid your point of view? And what even is your point of view on Mantras? And how much does EA matter in this discussion? :#

• 2 out of 4 Mantras are supportive. 2 out of 4 Mantras are offensive. Why I feel they could fit into Domination? Domination is associated with Dazes. MoD is a perfect match. MoP deals damage and provides Might. Yes, IB no longer does so - pitty, because that's a theme Domintion could be improved on - but Domination is still about overpowering your enemy. This is also where MoC could tie in. Is this the only place where it could fit? No. But it could fit. Feel free to share your thoughts.
• Escape Artist is a nice alternative for generating Clones on a stealth heavy build. Is it an awesome trait? No. But it is active, has a reasonable niche and is just a Master trait after all. Design-wise it is miles better than DD which is just a glorified target drop you can't control.

And wether you believe me or not - I do care about immersion and consistent themes - a lot.