WvW Hybrid Condi Mirage : Feedback Request and Rune Theory Crafting

[Crow.2851]

Hello Again Mesmer Forums,

PrefaceWith the introduction of the Warclaw and the recent nerfs to Mirage I am revisiting my roaming WvW build. It's impossible to know how the mounts will impact the meta, but chances are high that I won't be needing Traveler runes for all my hiking needs. I want my build to have high mobility options within combat for chasing down stragglers, but I'm trying to experiment with more damage oriented rune sets. Since I don't have a lot of experience with other runes, I figured y'all would have the best suggestions.

The BuildIs now about survival, mobility, and sustained hybrid damage with a focus on condition damage. Staff is the base weapon which I use to for group fights and might stacking via Chaos Vortex and Deceptive Evasion. After building some condition pressure with auto attacks and Chaos Armor I usually swap to axe torch for a burst and then disengage. Hybrid has been a blast to play, though I miss having a high duration time for my conditions. With the Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew I'm able to get up to 15 might stacks in most skirmishes before switching to axe, but I don't have many ways to sustain the might while in axe, besides Mind Wrack.

Changes and Improvements1) What runes would you recommend for increasing my DPS between conditions and power?2) Would Aristocracy be a viable option? They are what I have on my attached build. I'm creating a lot of mirrors now that I've switched to Desert Distortion and I have multiple Chaos options, so lots of Weakness triggers. I don't do dungeons so I'm unclear if they Aristocracy is worth grinding for.3) Because confusion has been nerfed should I consider Perplexity and Riddle of Sand? I'd be losing the sustain of Illusionary Membraine, but the damage output would increase.4) I've also been toying with the idea of Krait so that I can open up my axe sigil for something more damaging. Seems like a more fun build than viable haha.5) Do you think this build would be viable for Fractals, Dungeons, or PvP?

TLDRCats are faster than Traveler runes so I'm looking for new Runes. What would you recommend for this hybrid condi roamer?http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDlphVoBGMDMMjFcjqMAatfxf9f/638CChRC-jlSHQBC4JAAgTAgb0HMPVcQz+DHR5h8OEAbUJYBViVP1DCAcAY8xHf8xHPSBUlwK-w

My last forum:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58411/wvw-chaos-condi-mirage-feedback-request-and-ih-vs-dc-question#latest

Bless~

[whoknocks.4935]

Hi.

Your condi damage is pretty high in your build, but 1500 power with 20ish% crit chance is stupidly low to call it hybrid build, the power component won't do anything.

To have a really effective hybrid build you should aim for at least 2000 power, 1000 condi damage, 35% crit chance.

Scepter is overall a better hybrid weapon than axe.

Try out grieving stats and remove trailblazers and dire/rabid once, maybe fit it some celestial of needed.

But right now your build is just a condi focused build wasting stats on power.

About runes:AdventurerTormentingDurability (so you don't need many toughness trinkets)

Are good choices.

Hope I helped as a starting point.

[Crow.2851]

@whoknocks.4935 said:Your condi damage is pretty high in your build, but 1500 power with 20ish% crit chance is stupidly low to call it hybrid build, the power component won't do anything.To have a really effective hybrid build you should aim for at least 2000 power, 1000 condi damage, 35% crit chance.Thank you for providing a metric to aim for. Since my original build was full trailblazer condi it's been a slow transition and I didn't know benchmarks (I assumed you wanted the same amount of power as condi damage). Why will my current power value have such a low impact on overall damage?

Scepter is overall a better hybrid weapon than axe.That's what I've heard... I'm just afraid of having exclusively projectile weapons versus all the reflects in WvW. Also fearful of losing cleave options vs camps. Is the damage jump from scepter enough offset loss in AoE damage?

Try out grieving stats and remove trailblazers and dire/rabid once, maybe fit it some celestial of needed.But right now your build is just a condi focused build wasting stats on power.I'll give that a shot, currently farming for viper trinkets since I don't actually have them yet.

Hope I helped as a starting point.Your input is appreciated.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

I run this to great effect.

• 2250 base power.
• 222% crit damage and 232% crit damage against 50% hp
• 1100 Condi damage
• 80% crit chance on Shatter Storm (with fury which should always be up when used)
• Stealth->Weapon Swap->100% crit chance Confusing Images (this skill is so broken... visual bugs...)
• Mellee + Range pressure
• Alternate between IH pressure and Power + Condi bursts through shatter with quick setup/clone recovery. Illusionary Counter + Jaunt is an instant 3 clone recovery, as is Mirror Images + Jaunt.
• Your foe must dodge your 3 clone IH ambush pressure, must dodge 2x Shatter Storms and 1x Cry of Frustration (and you can generate 3 clones in under a second when done right to recover), must dodge Confusing Images, must dodge Phantasms Duelist, and all of this is high power + condition pressure across every single skill...

Condi duration is not that great in WvW. Play for 2-3 ticks of condi damage and be happy if it lingers longer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAnf7anELDlphdqBWoBMMjlVDzfA2AfgldgiTAAdLEUuOA-jFCHQB4U/AAOIA2RJoQV/pZnAAgs/gTU+NgnAQAgDgxLexLew5nf+5nfeN/8zP/8zP/8zPvUA+psC-w

[whoknocks.4935]

@Crow.2851 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:Your condi damage is pretty high in your build, but 1500 power with 20ish% crit chance is stupidly low to call it hybrid build, the power component won't do anything.To have a really effective hybrid build you should aim for at least 2000 power, 1000 condi damage, 35% crit chance.Thank you for providing a metric to aim for. Since my original build was full trailblazer condi it's been a slow transition and I didn't know benchmarks (I assumed you wanted the same amount of power as condi damage). Why will my current power value have such a low impact on overall damage?

Scepter is overall a better hybrid weapon than axe.That's what I've heard... I'm just afraid of having exclusively projectile weapons versus all the reflects in WvW. Also fearful of losing cleave options vs camps. Is the damage jump from scepter enough offset loss in AoE damage?

Try out grieving stats and remove trailblazers and dire/rabid once, maybe fit it some celestial of needed.But right now your build is just a condi focused build wasting stats on power.I'll give that a shot, currently farming for viper trinkets since I don't actually have them yet.

Hope I helped as a starting point.Your input is appreciated.

You can run scepter/pistol + axe/torch if you don't wanna give up the axe cleave, but i prefer staff much more, it gives so many utility and a good aoe field.

You can still run staff + axe/torch but you won't notice the power component a lot, scepter3 is crazy high power damage if you time it right, and scepter2 is a very good defensive/offensive hybrid attack and you can combo it with F1 or F2.

Watch out that hybrid will be way more squishier than trailblazer full condi and it's not that low risk, if you think to go full grieving and you see you die a lot, do like this guy above and add celestial trinkets to the build for sustain.

If you struggle against condis a lot, you can run the cleansing mantra or go with Inspiration 323.

If you decide to use staff i think chaos traitline with the staff reduction trait is a must have.

There isn't a perfect build, you just playing will find the find that will works for you, but if you wanna hybrid you shouldn't have power damage lower then 2000~and condi 900-1000~, crit chance 35-40%~.Once you achiever those you can decide to add more grieving for more damage but more risk or celestial for sustain, or maybe even berserker or trailblazer things depending on which part you wanna focus more, power or condi.

If you have other questions just ask.

[Curunen.8729]

Most been covered so will just echo some sentiments.

Yeah >2k power >1k condi >2.4k armour and ~20k health good to aim for.

Crit Damage vs condi duration - I'd argue right now due to mad cleanse flying around that crit damage is better as you want to maximise burst, especially if not traiting Illusions (so F1 will only be direct damage).

If not using Scepter then Duelling with DE very good for maximising clone uptime for ambush and shatters.If using Scepter could potentially get away without DE (eg and go Chaos/Illusions). But usually is a choice of Duelling + either Chaos or Illusions.

Scepter very good 1v1 and against certain matchups, but in my experience weaker mesmer vs mesmer (due to target drop etc). Axe and Staff (or Sword) better vs enemy mesmer due to cleave and ease of damage application.

Runes totally up to you. I still prefer Adventurer for extra dodge.

Sigils - for sure double Energy. or be at a disadvantage. Second sigil entirely personal preference.

Overall the decision is where do you want to be on the spectrum of "more damage/glassier <----> less damage/tankier". Mix and match until you find your comfort zone. :)

[DemonSeed.3528]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

To have a really effective hybrid build you should aim for at least 2000 power, 1000 condi damage, 35% crit chance.I agree here, I try to aim for those values as a general minimum [with crit you can get away with depending on trait and vision sigil]

[Kylden Ar.3724]

A combo of carrion armor, viper weapons, and marauder trinkets works good for hybrid chrono or mirage, and gives you a bit of extra vitality to survive the burst of the thieves that will be hunting you.

[Crow.2851]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Since my work schedule heavily restricts my play time it is hard to re-gear and experiment with new builds. Especially when it comes to trinkets, I don't have many useful pieces laying around. That's why I've been rocking Dire for so long haha. Having theory crafting support saves me a lot of time so I am grateful. I'll aim for Grieving armor and weapons with celestial trinkets if I can get them. I'd prefer a tankier build with more sustain, but if 2k power and 35% crit chance are the benchmarks for hybrid then there is a lot of fat to trim. I've been enjoying the longevity provided by Tormenting runes, so I'll likely continue using those alongside axe. Even if the damage is better on Scepter 3 there are so many reflects running around that I want to keep my options open when I have to auto attack.

[Curunen.8729]

@"Crow.2851" said:Thank you everyone for the advice. Since my work schedule heavily restricts my play time it is hard to re-gear and experiment with new builds. Especially when it comes to trinkets, I don't have many useful pieces laying around. That's why I've been rocking Dire for so long haha. Having theory crafting support saves me a lot of time so I am grateful. I'll aim for Grieving armor and weapons with celestial trinkets if I can get them. I'd prefer a tankier build with more sustain, but if 2k power and 35% crit chance are the benchmarks for hybrid then there is a lot of fat to trim. I've been enjoying the longevity provided by Tormenting runes, so I'll likely continue using those alongside axe. Even if the damage is better on Scepter 3 there are so many reflects running around that I want to keep my options open when I have to auto attack.

Axe is still solid due to cleave - ie the only skill you have to target accurately is axe 3, for everything else can just cleave through stuff (just positioning target for 2 to go in desired direction). Much easier to apply damage and can free up brain to think about other things.Scepter on the other hand got to aim almost everything - and make sure facing target. Block gets wasted easily on clones (mesmer v mesmer) so despite the "huge" burst it ends up being a liability when faced with axe mesmer.

Sure it's a solid weapon against most other classes (right now often the superior choice) with super damage output, but funnily enough the worst choice against opponent mesmer - so if like me you suffer from "Highlander syndrome", good idea to stay away from it! :D Of all the mirages I encounter, whenever I see scepter I feel more relaxed at the outset (eg compared with if I see greatsword then must be on toes and take no chances).

For crit don't forget you may have perma fury from Duelling, so I aim for around 33% base crit (psychological preference - I like that 1 in 3 hits crit) which gets easily boosted to perma >50% crit on self. Helps a lot with landing crit F1. With might stacks (and wvw stat buffs) I have hit up to 10k mind wracks in half cele gear...

On that note if using staff don't forget with IH you can buff significant might stacks before a burst by stacking clone ambushes. Of course depends on terrain/combat situation, but if possible is useful to be aware of clone position and take advantage of gaining might stacks before eg shatter.

For trinkets have you got LW3 Bitterfrost? Can farm that (and reward track) for winterberries to get trinkets. Or can get the rings easily from fractals. :)

[whoknocks.4935]

@Crow.2851 said:Thank you everyone for the advice. Since my work schedule heavily restricts my play time it is hard to re-gear and experiment with new builds. Especially when it comes to trinkets, I don't have many useful pieces laying around. That's why I've been rocking Dire for so long haha. Having theory crafting support saves me a lot of time so I am grateful. I'll aim for Grieving armor and weapons with celestial trinkets if I can get them. I'd prefer a tankier build with more sustain, but if 2k power and 35% crit chance are the benchmarks for hybrid then there is a lot of fat to trim. I've been enjoying the longevity provided by Tormenting runes, so I'll likely continue using those alongside axe. Even if the damage is better on Scepter 3 there are so many reflects running around that I want to keep my options open when I have to auto attack.

The best trinkets are the PvP or WvW mist ones.

They are so easy to swap stats for 3-4 gold buying the object.Best ascended trinkets overall, and easy to infuse and attune.

[Crow.2851]

Update: I have successfully re-geared and made some minor changes to what I'm running. Here is the new build and my commentary.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnZPjy0EoZFaK0wNN1ywwsbNL4GlZGECjk/6P/1fZA0a/CA-jFDCQBV4BAYV1fYq+gHcABEjyvyqEkCHIgDeIE0nGGAcACe2+DX4MAEA4AY8mX8xDgUAVJ0C-w

With the recent changes to Master of Manipulation I've been giving it another shot over Decent Into Madness. I miss having the second Chaos Storm, but gaining a reliable heal/reflect/escape tool in via Mirror has been nice. The nerf to Evasive Mirror also prompted me to have a better response to bear beasts and other scary projectiles, especially with how squishy my build has become. Having access to Arcane Thievery again has made my spikes far more consistent and gives me a response to Spellbreakers and Scrappers. Hope it doesn't get nerfed... quickness, slow, super speed, boon rip, and cleanse on one button is sooo juicy.

Questions after a few days of roaming:

1) How much of a DPS drop would I take from changing to Desperate Decoy from Phantasmal Fury? I chose it originally for more damage, but I don't know how much a difference it actually makes for my clone's damage output. The stealth/clone from Decoy seems more helpful for my cool-downs but I don't like how passive it is.

2) I'm not sold on Sigil of Doom for my Axe/Torch, are there any sigils that you might recommend with this build? I might be underestimating it's effectiveness since poison is a good cover condi that can help me win the tempo against healers, but I feel like there is an option out there with a higher impact.

3) What is the consensus on Chaotic Interruption? I feel like I've only seen people trash on it in these forums and I haven't really used it. Since I have Arcane Thievery to strip stability I've been getting more consistent interrupts, which could be snares and more might for spikes. Thoughts? I'd probably go back to running Decent Into Madness to trap folks in storms.

Thank you everyone for your advice and benchmarks, I'm really satisfied with how the build is coming together.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Ive kep tmy traveler runes on my mirage. Yes I dont need it for roaming out of combat, however during combat its still useful for me.

[Curunen.8729]

@Crow.2851 said:1) How much of a DPS drop would I take from changing to Desperate Decoy from Phantasmal Fury? I chose it originally for more damage, but I don't know how much a difference it actually makes for my clone's damage output. The stealth/clone from Decoy seems more helpful for my cool-downs but I don't like how passive it is.I'm not sure about numbers, someone else could answer this - however in terms of utility I think Desperate Decoy - annoying as it is when it procs at the wrong time - offers more than Phantasmal Fury especially when thinking about iMage. iWarlock however I'm not sure with the beam channel.

2) I'm not sold on Sigil of Doom for my Axe/Torch, are there any sigils that you might recommend with this build? I might be underestimating it's effectiveness since poison is a good cover condi that can help me win the tempo against healers, but I feel like there is an option out there with a higher impact.I swear by double energy/cleansing. Have used it for ages and nothing has come along to give reason to change - especially now they buffed cleansing to 3 condis - weapon swap gives free dodge and 3 condi cleanse on 9s cooldown... very powerful.

3) What is the consensus on Chaotic Interruption? I feel like I've only seen people trash on it in these forums and I haven't really used it. Since I have Arcane Thievery to strip stability I've been getting more consistent interrupts, which could be snares and more might for spikes. Thoughts? I'd probably go back to running Decent Into Madness to trap folks in storms.CI is in my opinion the best Chaos GM major trait. However... you need the interrupts to make use of it - and for Axe/Torch + Staff, there isn't really enough going here. iMage may or may not miss and then 30s cooldown (this really needs a buff tbh), Chaos Storm is not reliable and then you've only got what... F3?

Sure with Trident and IH underwater... yeah that is disgustingly strong with CI, if you want to be an underwater troll! xD

But this is why I still prefer BD - guaranteed vigour on F2 which given vigour nerfs on critical infusion and nomad's endurance, is important to fill in the gaps in vigour. Also the stab can be useful for careful stab stomp to preserve other cooldowns (though very situational and less useful after it got decimated to 1s).

---

Overall seems like you got a good handle of how you like to play so yeah just keep iterating on it. :)