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Systems Team: Why is 15k Coalescence of Ruin fine, but 10k Full Counter needs 66% damage nerf?


Lonecap.4105

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@"steki.1478" said:You just answered your question. It does all of that with no trait/skill investment. It doesn't need to be impressive, it needs to be balanced.

I know this was explained already by someone in this forum (kinda forgot if its on the warrior section or in the general profession section) but I will try to "list" those skills most people are saying about Full Counter and how OP they are

Let's start with the basic, The NO Trait Full Counter. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter)

Damage : This is already self explanatoryDamage Reduction : This is needed to "absorb" the Damage promoting a "Counter" like response. Much like if you block something (its not full counter if you get hit also right? it should be called Damage Exchange or something. We can chalk this up as a way to make the skill "relevant" to its theme)Stability: Again, this is needed so that the counter animation actually connects. Its a 1 Stability Stack that last 2 seconds (which is around the same time Full Counter animation goes including the after cast.) Would look very lame if you countered only to get CC mid "counter"Counterattack Evasion : This is a follow up to that Damage Reduction and helps the Stability. This is so that the skill would actually hit. and it only last for half a second (0.5 seconds)Daze : This is is actually more of a thematic effect. It's more like, you'll get dazed if your attack gets countered right? even if a split seconds? I really believe this is the reasoning for having this effect on itUnblockable : Also need for the skill to actually hit once triggered. Full counter would look like silly if the attack you just countered gets block half a second later (I really think its is a thematic effect also to make it look like you countered / punish an attack)

If you look at it on a birds eye view, the skill effect of the Full Counter revolves on how an actual counter attack works in real life. most of it is thematic in purpose and only last for half a second to 2 at most (which is the stability) hence why its a bit unreasonable to use this as an argument (as it is - not traited) on how OP Full Counter is (and believe me, it gets way worst down below)

Now, lets go with traits (you can choose only one of each so don't be greedy)

Adept:1) Guard Counter (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guard_Counter) to get a protection buff2) No Escape (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Escape) to "lock down" your enemy via immobilization after a successful counter since daze triggers this

Major:1) Loss Aversion (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loss_Aversion) for more Damage after removing a boon2) Slow Counter (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow_Counter), to apply cripple and slow

Grandmaster:1) Enchantment Collapse (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enchantment_Collapse) removes boon from other enemy (not including the main target of the boon strip)2) Revenge Counter (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter) copies the Condition that the Spellbreaker has to its target (it does NOT TRANSFER, just COPIES) and increases your Full Counter Damage by 20%

The main culprit on why Full counter seems so powerful for a single skill with a 12 second CD is that it has the perfect synergy with these 4 key traits on a warrior1) Berserker's Power (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power) - a Damage Modifier of 7%, 14% and 21% depending on the stacks2) Adrenal Health (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health) - a semi passive recovery trait (you actually need to land a burst to activate this hence the semi part)3) Cleansing Ire (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire) - Condi Cleansing (lessen condi pressure on certain fights)4) Attackers Insight (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker%27s_Insight) - Refreshes F1 aside from gaining Flat Damage Stat.

These means, landing that full counter with the above mentioned skill description + traits makes it looks OP and does so many things but in reality, its no different from having aegis and popping an F1 burst on an enemy.

The only difference between these 2 scenario (Hitting with full counter VS with a F1 burst) is that you don't get to remove a boon, get Attacker's Insight and no 20% dmge increase (and condi copy) if you did it with F1 (unless your on a dagger then the 20% dmge increase on full counter + copy is the difference)

The only saving grace on full counter is that it needs to be triggered by an enemy attack (any on this case). BUT with the AOE Spam and almost seemingly endless source of damage in a fight, that saving graces goes bye bye unless its a 1v1 duel between players that actually knows what to do. Hence why some people call warrior as the "noob checker" since it punishes skill spamming more (also why a lot of people complain cause they can't skill spam on a Spellbreaker)

So, what's the point of this seemingly long post about how Full Counter works? It's so that everyone can have a better understanding on what Full Counter can and cannot do and why it looks OP from other people's perspective yet seemingly weak on a warrior main's perspective.

And no, this is not me agreeing to anything. All I can say, Full Counter was a bad design for warrior on Spellbreaker specialization since it FOCUSED on that 1 skill and that 1 skill alone (they had to sacrifice Berseker's instant T3 burst just for this). The Boon removal / denial / hate is kinda weak if you ask me with how much boon spam is happening and how its easy to re apply boons on most classes. It might work in some PvE aspect or a 1v1 Dueling aspect in design but definitely not every aspect this game can provide.

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COR damage was nerfed and it was only 2sec CD, now it 4sec.CoR is only strong in Zerg cause most skills visual clutter will hide cor animation, besides most flying damage hitting won’t be rendered besides the red circles...

Aoe spam and huge visual clutter frongame design is what maker cor work inzergs

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