Can Rangers Kill Scrappers In PvP -if so, how? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can Rangers Kill Scrappers In PvP -if so, how?

EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

With the current state of Scrappers, can Rangers kill scrappers in spvp?

If so, how?

And can you decap and kill them?
Or are scrappers as ridiculously broken as everyone has been saying.

mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

Comments

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    Unlikely I would say. Not only limited to rangers imo. The new changes with gyro and barrier made scrapper extremely tough. On par with reapers shroud. Might try using condi against a scrapper.

  • Kolisch.4691Kolisch.4691 Member ✭✭✭

    Had fun with scrapper. Felt like it's really enjoyable when you're glass. Trouble a bit against condi mirage but maybe I'm just bad at engi. Didn't have too much trouble against rangers (using hammer). As a ranger I switch from soulbeast to condi druid if the scrapper's the only one giving trouble.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    Yep. You have to do a lot of damage really fast or CC them really hard or ideally both. I've been able to do it running bm/mm/and sb with zerker and gs using moment of clarity and remorseless to just CC and get big mauls/worldly impacts. The biggest problem with this is the auto defense bomb that blinds you so possibly burning through them with quickness and whirling defense would probably be the easier option. But you gotta go pretty glassy. I'm wearing a zerker ammy, and from my experience running siamoth + smokescale for extra CC helps a lot too.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭

    Beside the Unblockable opening with pet merging, you gonna have hard time. It has so much sustain and support.

  • Amadeus.5687Amadeus.5687 Member ✭✭✭

    I have been able to kill them sometimes running LB/GS sic'em build. While its not easy we do have the tools to take them down. I have found it best to poke at them from ranged first and waiting for them to pop the bulwark and heal gyro and then go in for the burst. Most of them only run a single stunbreak and one stability skill, so if you can make a stub combo on them with your pet you can get them.
    that said, hell of a complicated fight!

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    I tried spamming axe3 and frost trap and managed to kill a few wannabe scraps who venture far on their own(our home node).... You can extend their CD with chilled and burst them down or drag the fight until +1 by our team mate any Condi class should do

    But, if they were supporting mid, or accompanied by a teammate, you better leave the fight as a ranger and go do something else that might really contribute to the team...

    But then again I might be wrong... Since I'm not a plat player... Scraps I get matched with are mostly mid gold and lower... Don't know much about plat scraps anyway

    I remember a match where enemy had two skilled scraps and one bunker ele and two DPS class who would join their teammates whenever our team move towards that node ... They coordinated well and secured all three nodes... Hard to kill... Scraps won't kill you quick... They just make you use up all your DPS skills and wait for their teammates to kill you

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Yep. You have to do a lot of damage really fast or CC them really hard or ideally both. I've been able to do it running bm/mm/and sb with zerker and gs using moment of clarity and remorseless to just CC and get big mauls/worldly impacts. The biggest problem with this is the auto defense bomb that blinds you so possibly burning through them with quickness and whirling defense would probably be the easier option. But you gotta go pretty glassy. I'm wearing a zerker ammy, and from my experience running siamoth + smokescale for extra CC helps a lot too.

    I take it, you only run this when you see team matchups that are favorable for a glassy build.
    Also, eh man, Running zerk-quickness and whirling defense---I think that would be wasted on me.
    I've ran marauder w/quickness and sicem and while I can down many classes from Range (best case scenario)
    finding teammates that will finish or finish before those players are rezzed is tough.> @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

    I tried spamming axe3 and frost trap and managed to kill a few wannabe scraps who venture far on their own(our home node).... You can extend their CD with chilled and burst them down or drag the fight until +1 by our team mate any Condi class should do

    But, if they were supporting mid, or accompanied by a teammate, you better leave the fight as a ranger and go do something else that might really contribute to the team...

    But then again I might be wrong... Since I'm not a plat player... Scraps I get matched with are mostly mid gold and lower... Don't know much about plat scraps anyway

    I remember a match where enemy had two skilled scraps and one bunker ele and two DPS class who would join their teammates whenever our team move towards that node ... They coordinated well and secured all three nodes... Hard to kill... Scraps won't kill you quick... They just make you use up all your DPS skills and wait for their teammates to kill you

    Thanks for the advice.
    I think there are the FOTM scrappers or what you call Wannabe Scrappers.
    I know Im probably going to get $*** for this, but I dont think the individual 1v1 skill level of a Gold 2 scrapper and a low plat 2 scrapper is night and day.

    I know from watching videos of high plat 2 that a well played scrapper is completely OP in their eyes and
    ruins the balance of PvP. That it's just not their ability to give boons and rez but to do so while still being able to put out good dps
    and for good players, run very glassy ammy/runes and still be very tanky for a well player Scrapper.
    I've watched videos of flawless players lose to them.
    woodenpotatoes analysis seemed pretty spot on

    Personally, still a bit unsure whether they are ridiculously OP or just a bit OP and no one knows how to beat them.
    I think it's a bit of both.
    Sort of Reminds me of Druid before and after players knew what to do.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    I've actually been running zerk mm/bm/sb lb/gs since the update and been doing very well with it. Kills pretty much everything when played right.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    I've actually been running zerk mm/bm/sb lb/gs since the update and been doing very well with it. Kills pretty much everything when played right.

    When Played Right
    Curious, do you even try for 1v1's on a build so glassy or do you play more of a +1, Ranged group fight, decapper?
    Do you try to share stances while zerk?
    I ask because all the times I tried to play Marauder or Zerk,
    I wasn't always certain when to stay back or when to share stances (being that as soft as I am, it's tricky)

    Kind of derailing my own thread hehe

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    When Played Right

    I see this meaningless phrase pop up so much, it almost deserves it's own trademark.

  • Rusty.9348Rusty.9348 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    Ranger can kill a scrapper. Amen. You just don't have to do it alone.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's alot of variable at play. But if it comes to battle on endurance, scrapper holds the advantage at least for now.

  • @Eurantien.4632 said:
    I've actually been running zerk mm/bm/sb lb/gs since the update and been doing very well with it. Kills pretty much everything when played right.

    Would you mind posting your build?

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    When Played Right

    I see this meaningless phrase pop up so much, it almost deserves it's own trademark.

    ha, ikr.
    No offense intended toward Eurantein who is a very good ranger.
    I have a hard time believing, at lower levels of play, Gold up to Plat , a Zerk Sb build is going to carry.
    And 'carry' in my humble opinion, is what you have to do.

    @Rusty.9348 said:
    Ranger can kill a scrapper. Amen. You just don't have to do it alone.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2019

    Yesterday ROM also used zerk soulbeast and he could consistently beat bunker scrappers.

    I think the game design is good there : a glass cannon can counter a bunker.
    Indeed he died a lot because with that build you go all in with no sustain.
    A simple reflect did make down himself a couple of times...

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    Yesterday ROM also used zerk soulbeast and he could consistently beat bunker scrappers.

    I think the game design is good there : a glass cannon can counter a bunker.
    Indeed he died a lot because with that build you go all in with no sustain.
    A simple reflect did make down himself a couple of times...

    Yeah ROM and I often ask each other what the other is running. And i've mainly been running this zerker build so he's been giving it a shot. From my experience, I can easily sustain vs a scrapper, if they throw up the reflect I either stow or go unblockable.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Yeah ROM and I often ask each other what the other is running. And i've mainly been running this zerker build so he's been giving it a shot. From my experience, I can easily sustain vs a scrapper, if they throw up the reflect I either stow or go unblockable.

    so thank you, this gameplay is so much more entertaining to watch than boonbeast.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @jcbroe.4329 said:

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

    Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2019

    @jcbroe.4329 said:

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    @jcbroe.4329 Missed your presence on the forums. Glad you posted the questions, was wondering the same.

    I want to understand why this build works.

    My initial impression of gs/smokescale and oppressive superiority...
    Meh/ugh.
    Because it seems like it's a very 'all in' build.

    I'm Not a fan of gs, never have been. It doesn't allow me to evade around a node like sw does. It's very all in.
    Jump in, do dmg, pull off super combo and if that fails, a half a$$3d retreat and block.
    It doesn't buy me enough time to get into owl or to heal like sw would.

    No shared stances= meh..for what, 10 percent extra dmg? Is that really worth it and why?

    No siamoth= no boons, no extra dmg immune (siamoth) that sets up whirling axes very well.
    Worldly impact is even more telegraphed than whirling axes. No sword/wh to fully take advantage of stealth.

    That's just how I see it. I am actually interested in knowing why a build like the one you proposed might work very well.
    Does it only work at a high level of play?
    And does this turn the build into much more of a side noder with the occasional into the fray of mid?

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @jcbroe.4329 said:

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

    Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

    The synergy of whirling defense dmg + shared stances really turns the tide in mid fights.
    And that's without speccing for amazing whirling defense #'s

    Big Rom Fan
    Tell him "you're such a lad."

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @jcbroe.4329 said:

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    @jcbroe.4329 Missed your presence on the forums. Glad you posted the questions, was wondering the same.

    I want to understand why this build works.

    My initial impression of gs/smokescale and oppressive superiority...
    Meh/ugh.
    Because it seems like it's a very 'all in' build.

    I'm Not a fan of gs, never have been. It doesn't allow me to evade around a node like sw does. It's very all in.
    Jump in, do dmg, pull off super combo and if that fails, a half a$$3d retreat and block.
    It doesn't buy me enough time to get into owl or to heal like sw would.

    No shared stances= meh..for what, 10 percent extra dmg? Is that really worth it and why?

    No siamoth= no boons, no extra dmg immune (siamoth) that sets up whirling axes very well.
    Worldly impact is even more telegraphed than whirling axes. No sword/wh to fully take advantage of stealth.

    That's just how I see it. I am actually interested in knowing why a build like the one you proposed might work very well.
    Does it only work at a high level of play?
    And does this turn the build into much more of a side noder with the occasional into the fray of mid?

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @jcbroe.4329 said:

    And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

    Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

    I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

    I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

    Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

    The synergy of whirling defense dmg + shared stances really turns the tide in mid fights.
    And that's without speccing for amazing whirling defense #'s

    Big Rom Fan
    Tell him "you're such a lad."

    I've been very, very busy at work, not really playing PvP all that dedicated-ly and focusing mainly on WvW with my guild(s) and friends. It's a different sort of challenge and I've picked and learned a lot, but I haven't been playing ranger a ton compared to my other classes and I haven't really felt the need to speak here with how stagnant the game and discussions are from a Ranger perspective.

    That said, I tried out some builds last night and playing damage like Eurantien suggested easily blew the experience out of the water.

    The whole side node experience right now is just awful. Tether Strength Warriors Tethering you into Rampage and one shotting you, which they can basically do every solo engagement on a side point, unkillable Scrappers you get stuck fighting all day, and the clone and cancer spam that still exists with Mirage just due to its design with all the visual clutter and detargeting....yeah, if I'm going to sidenode again before the next balance patch I'll be playing my Spellbreaker or Scrapper.

    With a damage setup though, I could end fights before they started, I could get quick kills in teamfights and gain momentum, and I wasn't stuck trying to compete for an overcrowded sidenode role. Granted, it was squishy, especially the way Eurantien plays it, but the reward payoff was massive. I ate dirt a lot more than I'm used to, granted, but I think that's more a symptom of the build and role transition than it was efficacy.

    Edit:
    As a personal preference I'm not certain that Marksmanship is all that useful to me. The amount of time I'm underutilizing the traits because I'm not using GS or their situational conditions makes the traitline harder to run for me. Eura has always been better, maybe the best, at utilizing the full extent of the LB/GS setup though, so he's definitely getting more mileage out of it. For me personally, I ended up more with what @Sol.4310 was working with by using WS setups:

    Here's the staple:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATBnEqAtCiN8Cs8ilCBLP7udLvNdgV3L4pLMDCAlI9DA-jpBXAB5WG45HAQwHCgjvAAieEAAY/BA
    I left the last slot blank because it's going to be Signet of Stone or QZ or Lightning Reflexes or something like that, but it will vary wildly with preference and playtime. I'm not too sure on the heal and whether or not WHAO is worth trying over Troll or not.

    Here's my current theorycraft since Sol was also working on a similar hybridized build like it:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBjYD5kQFoVQshXglXsMJYORuLXmrJA84mA552fbytEpfA-jpxHQBA4IAYvyA+7CAwwHAgyOIAcY/BA

    I don't think the second one will work as well as the first, it might be too hybridized, but you still get the unblockable from Warhorn 5 and can still setup a devastating combo with a little more effort, so it was worth at least throwing the theorycraft out there.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @jcbroe.4329 I think both of these are strong builds, my only issue with them is they do not excel at anything. Sure, they can kill other dps classes decently well but seem to have little chance of killing warriors and no chance of killing scrappers.

    The reason I am liking marksmanship at the moment is because it offers you so much more damage to be able to quickly kill things (something I felt ranger has always lacked - not enough damage). With Marksmanship I am not really bound by the 4 -> 2 longbow combo. I can Rapid fire, burn a dodge -> knockback -> interrupt -> proccing all the dps trait increases and hit someone for a 6-9k auto attack. This essentially turns longbow into a weapon with two separate bursts instead of one.

    On top of that, Clarion Bond is actually amazing. I can not only leap through my smokescale field for stealth but even when i'm in longbow I can swap pets to get stealth (or double up on stealth. Moreover, when I swap to the owl the owl gets an opening strike proc from clarion bond and then I can buff that with maul and get a quickness F2. I have had the bird hit for 10k because of this set up.

    Then of course, I still have all the good old GS burst combos. A counterattack -> anything is now deadly. A maul self buff -> gs throw can do about 8k. There is just so many more damage options with marksmanship.

    All that said, I think owl, sic em, and zerker, might be a little too all in. I have been testing swapping owl for siamoth, and sic em for dolyak stance and although I haven't killed any scrappers 1v1 yet, I have felt a lot stronger in prolonged fights due to the ability to have 2 invulns, more CC, and extra stability. In this case, I might not get as big damage numbers without sic em, but If I get an interrupt combo someone is still dying.

    @EnderzShadow.2506
    The nerf to the stance durations has made stance sharing a very undesirable trait imo. The only reason I would take it now is to try and share the boons from moa stance and dolyak stance to my pet (and maybe my teammates) without running nature magic. The duration on allies is so low it's really not worth it to share stances for their effects and the duration buff on you is negligible, in most cases its a 1s increase and the 10% damage is just a better option at that point.

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    @jcbroe.4329 I think both of these are strong builds, my only issue with them is they do not excel at anything. Sure, they can kill other dps classes decently well but seem to have little chance of killing warriors and no chance of killing scrappers.

    The reason I am liking marksmanship at the moment is because it offers you so much more damage to be able to quickly kill things (something I felt ranger has always lacked - not enough damage). With Marksmanship I am not really bound by the 4 -> 2 longbow combo. I can Rapid fire, burn a dodge -> knockback -> interrupt -> proccing all the dps trait increases and hit someone for a 6-9k auto attack. This essentially turns longbow into a weapon with two separate bursts instead of one.

    On top of that, Clarion Bond is actually amazing. I can not only leap through my smokescale field for stealth but even when i'm in longbow I can swap pets to get stealth (or double up on stealth. Moreover, when I swap to the owl the owl gets an opening strike proc from clarion bond and then I can buff that with maul and get a quickness F2. I have had the bird hit for 10k because of this set up.

    Then of course, I still have all the good old GS burst combos. A counterattack -> anything is now deadly. A maul self buff -> gs throw can do about 8k. There is just so many more damage options with marksmanship.

    All that said, I think owl, sic em, and zerker, might be a little too all in. I have been testing swapping owl for siamoth, and sic em for dolyak stance and although I haven't killed any scrappers 1v1 yet, I have felt a lot stronger in prolonged fights due to the ability to have 2 invulns, more CC, and extra stability. In this case, I might not get as big damage numbers without sic em, but If I get an interrupt combo someone is still dying.

    @EnderzShadow.2506
    The nerf to the stance durations has made stance sharing a very undesirable trait imo. The only reason I would take it now is to try and share the boons from moa stance and dolyak stance to my pet (and maybe my teammates) without running nature magic. The duration on allies is so low it's really not worth it to share stances for their effects and the duration buff on you is negligible, in most cases its a 1s increase and the 10% damage is just a better option at that point.

    Oh I know and understand why you do it and it makes total sense and works for you. The fact is that you're just a flat out better player than I am, especially with utilizing the full scope of the build.

    I can't for the life of me make GS damage work consistently in my favor. I feel like the moment I try to go GS in any situation that I'm not fully capitalizing on a guaranteed opportunity to make good work of it, I get outplayed or I whiff and I'm dead. Your build goes all in on the GS, and I just die trying to make Marksmanship work for me.

    That's really why I put up some more generalist style builds, not because they're better, but because they're exactly that, generalist and more forgiving. I know you'll probably get more benefit in a fight from Siamoth over Owl, but I get all my mobility and kiting from Owl and use it to roam across the map and play roaming DPS better. If I was better at my engagements and disengagements, I probably wouldn't feel the need to rely on the swoop buffer, and similarly, if I was better at utilizing Siamoth for anything more than the merge skills, I'd probably want to use it more.

    I also feel like I melt to damage without Troll Unguent alone. My playstyle is so heavily sustain and attrition that I feel unsuccessful trying to play anything else, which is probably also why Mirage always feels/felt miserably glassy to me but Spellbreaker and now Scrapper feel fantastic to play.

    Truthfully, I wouldn't play Soulbeast at all if ANet hadn't nerfed Druid into the ground (and then introduced an even MORE power crept, imbalanced meta while leaving Druid in a sad state). That and that pets melt to the power crept state of the game, so watered down Druid feels even worse to play because you can't revive the pet.

    But yeah, you've always been one of the best DPS Ranger players I know, if not the best, and the playstyle absolutely suits you. Obviously, I have to put together alternatives to make it work for me. Heck, I'd be better of playing this because it just feels better and more sustainable to me: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRjEqQLLWyCOsAXLG+DqOFu9d4Tjf4o3XPDCgSk+bA-jpxHQBcY/BG+AAsXZAAcEA83hA4bXAAA

    But yeah, hopefully this doesn't come off as ranty, it's not like we're disagreeing. I just felt the need to explain my reasoning to you because the full damage builds, especially in the current state of the game, do not have a lot of ease of use.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @jcbroe.4329

    Yeah, I totally understand. The two builds you posted before this last one made me consider running almost exactly what you're offering on that last one (MM/WS). I do miss not having more sustain. If I run the first build i posted. Zerk, MM, Owl, Sic Em. I have lost games with like 14 kill and 0 deaths simply because I cannot hold a point for the life of me. Going siamoth and dolyak stance has given me a much higher win rate simply because I think I can survive longer and sort of hold a point when needed - whereas before I would just immediately abandon the point.

    Giving up beastmastery is scary... the synergy with two handed training and remorseless is awesome. Troll is definitely one of our strongest heals and I miss that I cannot really run it at the moment and pre-cast if before fights as we usually do. I overheal all the time or even use my heal at full health simply because thats where I have the opportunity to cast it and I'm mostly doing it to get boons... but I miss out on so much sustain through no troll.

    With WS I'd get more condi clear and sustain at the cost of shout CD's and remorseless CC synergy. It could be worth it though...

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632
    @jcbroe.4329

    jc, On my vanilla Ranger account, I run something very similar to the vanilla build you mentioned.
    Except I run wolf for the fear. I can't kill scrappers in record time but I can decap and wait for the plus one
    Between LB 4, Wolf knockdown and fear, gs 4 and gs5, I can severely hamper a scrappers ability to support at mid.

    As to the stances and leader of the pack trait, it works for me in the comparatively lower tiers I play in.
    The build I run is much more tanky/support related.
    sw/wh LB Earth /paladin wild/nature/sb leader of the pack and invig bond Full stances (depending on the comp were facing)
    The spike dmg is moderate.
    Sustain is good
    Mobility is great.
    and the support is a spike of sorts.

    Far too often, the randoms I play with are having trouble in mid. With the tools I have, I can put out heals/condi clear and resistance
    and a load of boons that support offensive/defensively. If I have a few opponents near me while supporting mid, I can pop whirling defense and often times turn the fight in my teams favor.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019

    Personally, I've swapped to Demolisher Amulet ever since the last update where it is less common to have Mirages burst you down before you can react to their condis.

    So with having taken the past week or so of the PvP season to build test in ranked......
    Tanky sidenoders, tanky midfights. Very, very sick of the game right now, thank goodness the Division 2 just came out.

    Complaining aside;
    The high damage sic'em builds are fun, but they aren't my cup of tea. They feel too single target focused and die too easily, so they don't really +1 as well as something like a Herald imo. Other people will make them work for the sake of them still playing the game and keeping a bit of variety at the highest tiers of play, but that won't be me, I'll be playing Div2.

    Some thoughts before I retreat back to my Ranger hiatus, only logging in for guild WvW raids:

    • Sword/Warhorn on the boonbeast build doesn't keep up the damage output enough in this high sustain sidenode meta.
    • Nature Magic with Fresh Reinforcement is still the only thing keeping the class from being a 1-shot gimmick or a bottom tier pick in a crowded sidenoder role.
    • Offhand Axe and Greatsword are the only reliable weapons you can use on a point to push kills. The rest of the weapons are too easily countered or too weak.
    • Axe/Axe and Greatsword seems to be the logical setup. Owl for mobility and sustain, Siamoth for the knockdown alone.
    • Extending the sentiment from above, Axe/Warhorn and Greatsword seems to work to keep the pressure up very well, but the reduction in skills you have that can threaten the kill can be exposed more easily by good players. However, swapping the Owl to a Smokescale in this setup creates a very capable dueling build, might be worth it over the above bullet point.
    • Tether Rampage and Unkillable Scrapper are cancer, combined with the ongoing cancer of Firebrand and Scourge dominating entire sections of the map, the latter combination has been contributing to the slow death of the gamemode alone. The visual spam from Chrono is also cancer. Boons are crapped out, condis and corrupts are crapped out, cleanses are insanely over the top to match the condi/corrupt loaded classes, and AoE is way over the top. Scale all of this back. Make boons limited in source and meaningful in application and make corrupts limited source, high cooldown/skill shot to match. Do the same to condis and cleanses. And barriers. And immune/invulnerability. Every class should have single target and AoE options, with AoE being weaker than single target because of the multi-target potential. Maybe remove phantasms entirely, give Mesmers whatever back that they'd lose so they wouldn't cry, and make them actually think about a clone cap again while forcing the reduced visual cancer through mechanics; right now they're a worse spirit ranger zoo. Get rid of rampage entirely, if Guardian elites can be rebuilt, so can Warrior and Engineer elites.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    On the contrary, I feel the one shot soulbeast-esk build I posted earlier is actually amazing right now. It beats warriors really easily if outplayed. It can beat scrappers while they do little counterpressure, It can beat eles, and your damage is high enough to make it comparable to a herald in a +. I even feel (not often but) sometimes thats its superior to a herald when +ing in that I can burst from 1500 range, allowing me to rotate faster. In team fights with good positioning I can easily net downs and really only have herald to worry about. That being said, it is very high risk, if I mess up I instantly die while so many other classes have a ton of get out of jail free cards.

  • sneakytails.5629sneakytails.5629 Member ✭✭✭

    I tried your build in WvW, this thing hits harrrrrrrrrrrd. I landed a 16k maul after a 18k opening burst against a full health mounted enemy. They went from 100 to dead in just a few seconds flat. Easily blows away anything else I have played damage wise.

    It does melt rather quickly though under pressure. I had some spectacular deaths, some of them were getting surprised by the same glassy type Soulbeasts.

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    On the contrary, I feel the one shot soulbeast-esk build I posted earlier is actually amazing right now. It beats warriors really easily if outplayed. It can beat scrappers while they do little counterpressure, It can beat eles, and your damage is high enough to make it comparable to a herald in a +. I even feel (not often but) sometimes thats its superior to a herald when +ing in that I can burst from 1500 range, allowing me to rotate faster. In team fights with good positioning I can easily net downs and really only have herald to worry about. That being said, it is very high risk, if I mess up I instantly die while so many other classes have a ton of get out of jail free cards.

    Playing with the setup style a little more, I had much more success with this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBHhF6kSFoVQsWQwiFglXs8HYLvuMQAIP8eejvPphfQDoEpfA-jpBXABP/AAaoMQwHBgjPEAAs/gonAAA

    Granted, our testing fields are going to be different and obviously this build is even more unsafe.
    I was even considering Farsighted over MoC in this build, not sure yet. Maybe I just don't play glassy Longbow well, or maybe people are too used to LB to really get surprised enough by it during a match anymore and I don't want to or am currently incapable of putting the effort in to make it work well for me, but with this I'm taking a page out of this video "series" and putting it to use in PvP, and I find it to work much better for me:

    Edit:
    I guess the video I initially linked proves the LB point lol, I meant to link the more Axe centric video:

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • Brendan.1309Brendan.1309 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019

    Very often I'm finding myself using berserker/scholar these days in SPVP.
    There are only 5 professions you need to go up against and with the rise in popularity that scrapper has had, that's less of an issue.
    Keep in mind there are also other slow-moving builds like the necro variations and Firebrand. You may only end up being worried about a couple of people in any game and I really only find myself disengaging when a herald has me targeted while being in full glass gear, thieves can be troublesome, but I find them much easier to deal with than Heralds generally speaking.

    On very flat maps like Coliseum or Revenge of the Capricorn, you can swap survival for the marksmanship tree for piercing arrows which is incredibly rewarding in big team fights. Just be sure to bring along a pet you can merge with for extra mobility such as an owl or the ram.

    With the massive nerfs to condi mesmer and buffs to Scrapper (which has no real way to gap close on a LB ranger) this is a great time to play LB ranger.

    TL:DR just watch the scrappers their CDs they have massive tells and burst them down. You can do it 1v1, but IMO a longbow Rangers is much more effective to a team at being a +1 rather than a duelist.

    Edit: Trevor recently, added a video this subject matter.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @jcbroe.4329 If you're gonna be an absolute madman, I think farsighted would be better, as you can actually one shot with axe 3 or gs 4 a lot of times. Also, predators onslaught would be higher sustained damage, just a thought.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Amadeus.5687 said:
    I have been able to kill them sometimes running LB/GS sic'em build. While its not easy we do have the tools to take them down. I have found it best to poke at them from ranged first and waiting for them to pop the bulwark and heal gyro and then go in for the burst. Most of them only run a single stunbreak and one stability skill, so if you can make a stub combo on them with your pet you can get them.
    that said, hell of a complicated fight!

    Can confirm. I play scrap. Only 1 stun break and 7 seconds of stab. Have been killed by knock back and unblockable pew pew before.

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    I ended up with 2 builds I'll probably invest in and play on until the next real rebalance:
    1) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnUqAtCiN8CusAs8ilCB7pLMDCANdgV3LIP7udLvl4w0A-jpBHQBA4QAAk9HE3RA4gXAgH+AAyXZAA
    Swap out the runes for Earth Runes if more survival is needed.

    2) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRBHPxG2JhKQFvYDvgLLALvYZSwcicXuMXTA4xNByzt/2kbJKON-jpxHAB+fCA4Y/BlPIAf/AAA4IAYfZAA

    Will have to see what the ranked queue meta pans out to be next season to determine which I gravitate towards and/or refine. Hopefully Scrappers will be more manageable after today's patch.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH

  • I tried @Eurantien.4632 build, and it's very good. It can +1 scrapper fairly quickly and surprisingly has enough sustain (even though using berserker) if you good at kiting around. I'm not a high level player by any means (gold 3 - plat 1), but on those level the build works very well..

    Thanks for the build!

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    I calibrated at plat 3 going 8-2 with this build.

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