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What is the current state of warrior in PvE?


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@melandru.3876 said:harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

still mesmer utility in skips/portalsstill a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps lossstill 25 mightstill prot upkeepstill quickness/alacrity/fury

reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

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@thrag.9740 said:

@melandru.3876 said:harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

still mesmer utility in skips/portalsstill a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps lossstill 25 mightstill prot upkeepstill quickness/alacrity/fury

reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

I guess that is fractal composition...Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

I guess that is fractal composition...Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

Could be, classes that do 10 man boons like druid are weaker in 5 man content. Anet actually has been making efforts to balance things. Its just annoying to have to run very different comps in fractals and raids.

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@thrag.9740 said:

I guess that is fractal composition...Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

Could be, classes that do 10 man boons like druid are weaker in 5 man content. Anet actually has been making efforts to balance things. Its just annoying to have to run very different comps in fractals and raids.

Or fun since its something diferent.I stopped playing fractals because it was too frustrating (and slipery slope + social ackwardness makes me sick) but now i play sometimes again as firebrand or ren instead of chrono that i play in raids

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

Or fun since its something diferent.I stopped playing fractals because it was too frustrating (and slipery slope + social ackwardness makes me sick) but now i play sometimes again as firebrand or ren instead of chrono that i play in raids

It is fun to play other stuff, I just did fractals yesterday as a power reaper, but I'd rather things just be balanced and easily modular so you have a choice at both. For example chrono is the only one class that can do both alacrity and quickness. Which means dropping a chrono complicates everything else as you have to change your healer, but you still want spirits so now you have to restrict your dps. Ugh, as an organizer its a huge pain the ass.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

still mesmer utility in skips/portalsstill a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps lossstill 25 mightstill prot upkeepstill quickness/alacrity/fury

reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeastsperma quicknessperma alacrityperma furyperma 25 mightbannersempower allies

and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

still mesmer utility in skips/portalsstill a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps lossstill 25 mightstill prot upkeepstill quickness/alacrity/fury

reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeastsperma quicknessperma alacrityperma furyperma 25 mightbannersempower allies

and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

Ok now I understand, I thought you were telling me the 5 fixed class for a 10 man squad, as I understand it to be the case that rev can do 10 man alacrity. Yeah for 5 man I'm sure that druid-chrono isn't great, both of those classes specialize in 10 man buffing. In 5 man content, your effectively cutting their utility in half.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@melandru.3876 said:harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

still mesmer utility in skips/portalsstill a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps lossstill 25 mightstill prot upkeepstill quickness/alacrity/fury

reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeastsperma quicknessperma alacrityperma furyperma 25 mightbannersempower allies

and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

Ok now I understand, I thought you were telling me the 5 fixed class for a 10 man squad, as I understand it to be the case that rev can do 10 man alacrity. Yeah for 5 man I'm sure that druid-chrono isn't great, both of those classes specialize in 10 man buffing. In 5 man content, your effectively cutting their utility in half.

in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groupsdownside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

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@melandru.3876 said:

in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groupsdownside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

By rotate you mean change sub groups mid fight? Anet nerfed that out of the game years ago when it was meta for chrono to do that with the very old style SOI + chronomancer runes set up. Whatever group you start in, for boon application purposes your stuck in for the whole fight. 4-5-1 maybe can do something, That nerf was why 4-4-2 was meta before mirror comp if my memory is right.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:

in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groupsdownside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

By rotate you mean change sub groups mid fight? Anet nerfed that out of the game years ago when it was meta for chrono to do that with the very old style SOI + chronomancer runes set up. Whatever group you start in, for boon application purposes your stuck in for the whole fight. 4-5-1 maybe can do something, That nerf was why 4-4-2 was meta before mirror comp if my memory is right.

should still be possible depending on radiusskills prioritize group memebers first, then randoms..but if there are no group members in range, the prioty passes on "who is the closest" on large hitboxes this should still be doable, but is it worth it?

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Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

Because what I'm seeing is:

-liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

-stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

-finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

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@"thrag.9740" said:Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

Because what I'm seeing is:

-liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

-stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

-finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

165% isn't that bad, not 200% but getting close.

another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weavertempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss (+3sec boon duration every 20 seconds)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR7dnsADFBjVBBGCBEEhl4BzaDkvSBVBgGQ9a/lOT7pA-jBCBQBFZ/BAr+TAuIA+V3AAeAAH7IAIYlfDWJYAgDg1XPzbew5nf+5nfeXf+5nf+5nf+5nfepAiYZE-e

what about a build like this? potent haste gives 4.75 secs quickness on it's own with 9.5 sec cooldown (effective cooldown would be somewhere at +- 6.75 to 7 seconds,

  • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.^ lets round up at say potent haste is 10 sec instead of 9.54.75 sec quickness to 1 group every +- 7 seconds.

heal mantra gives 3 sec quickness, same 9.5 sec cd so lets round up again to 10 secs

  • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.

quickness mantra + heal mantra is 7.75 sec quickness, on 7 sec cooldown(less, but we rounded up to above) to 1 group.feel my wrath is 15.5 sec quickness on 45 sec cooldown (effective cooldown with permanent alacrity is 30 seconds if i calculated right)

start with feel my wrath on group 1 (15.5 sec quickness)move to group 2 heal mantra + quickness mantra x2 (12.5 sec quickness)back to group 1, keep the 7 sec cooldown for heal mantra in mind that we used on group 2. use heal mantra (15.5-7-x(whatever time u needed to reposition) +3)then it would be a matter of timing mantra cd's/elite to rotate

could run stalward speed, and elite mantragroup 1 gets heal mantra (aegis + quickness) for 7.5 sec quickness on 8 sec cd (with permanent alac)group 2 gets quickness mantra x2 for 9.5 sec quickness on 8 sec(per charge) cooldown (with permanent alac)back to group 1 heal mantra for another 7.5 sec quickness on 8 sec cdback to group 2 quickness mantra x1 for 4.75 sec quickness

and this would go on and on.this is just speculating, i haven't ever tested this in ana ctual game

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@melandru.3876 said:

@"thrag.9740" said:Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

Because what I'm seeing is:

-liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

-stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

-finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

you are forgetting "feel my wrath"

double post

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@"melandru.3876" said:

you are forgetting "feel my wrath" which imo is worth taking it over elite mantra

another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weavertempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss

Well feel my wrath will give you 44% coverage. Putting you just barely at 200%. But then I doubt your going to proc stalwart speed off cd without the elite mantra involved. If we assume its locked to your heal mantra, it drops down to 41% from 71%. So your losing 30% to gain 44%, so yeah, still more quickness, no stab though which is too bad. Seems still a bit shy of 200, but it all depends on how often you can proc that trait.

Either way, having to run from one subgroup to another sounds like cancer.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:

you are forgetting "feel my wrath" which imo is worth taking it over elite mantra

another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weavertempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss

Well feel my wrath will give you 44% coverage. Putting you just barely at 200%. But then I doubt your going to proc stalwart speed off cd without the elite mantra involved. If we assume its locked to your heal mantra, it drops down to 41% from 71%. So your losing 30% to gain 44%, so yeah, still more quickness, no stab though which is too bad. Seems still a bit shy of 200, but it all depends on how often you can proc that trait.

Either way, having to run from one subgroup to another sounds like cancer.

i edited my post, the moment u replied

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@melandru.3876 said:

  • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.This is inaccurate. I've already accounted for alacrity correctly by dividing cool downs by 1.25. You are dividing by 1.5 which is only true for chronomancers running the improved alacrity trait. Its actually a very crucial miscalculation which greatly effects your predicted quickness uptime.
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@thrag.9740 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:
  • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.This is inaccurate. I've already accounted for alacrity correctly by dividing cool downs by 1.25. You are dividing by 1.5 which is only true for chronomancers running the improved alacrity trait. Its actually a very crucial miscalculation which greatly effects your predicted quickness uptime.

you are correct, i have honnestly no idea why i did mix them uphttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

i was also thinking about changing the set-up a bit (so no more duplicate groups like renegade which covers alacrity alone, don't need a second one)

group 1:-harrier renegade (10 man alacrity)-power quickbrand (5 man quickness)-power bs (10 man banners)-power soulbeast ( frost spirit)-power chrono (pulls/general mesmer utility if needed)

group 2:-harrier fb (5 man quickness/fury/all the fb tools)-boon tempest (10 man fury and might)-power soulbeast (sun/storm spirit up for debate)-power tempest-power tempest

provides pretty much everything i believe, while having a (very) high squad dps

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I'm sure that setup is fine, whether or not it is optimal, well of course that requires testing, and actual evidence. One thing I will point out, it looks like your locking down the following just to maintain boons/buffs: 2 firebrands,1 renegade, 1 soul beast, 1 warrior, 1 tempest. That leaves only 4 spots to really play with. Choosing the correct dps classes for the correct fight is essential for obtaining highest possible dps. For example, at soulless horror and largos, condi mirage is so dominant, I would expect that whichever comp can compress roles the most to bring the most of them will have the highest dps.

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@thrag.9740 said:I'm sure that setup is fine, whether or not it is optimal, well of course that requires testing, and actual evidence. One thing I will point out, it looks like your locking down the following just to maintain boons/buffs: 2 firebrands,1 renegade, 1 soul beast, 1 warrior, 1 tempest. That leaves only 4 spots to really play with. Choosing the correct dps classes for the correct fight is essential for obtaining highest possible dps. For example, at soulless horror and largos, condi mirage is so dominant, I would expect that whichever comp can compress roles the most to bring the most of them will have the highest dps.

isn't condi mirage nerfed and now more or less even with condi renegade? or am i outdated

and what you say is 100% correct, but howany people can play multiple classes (and play it good) i tried pugging, and there it becomes clear fast :pensive:

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@melandru.3876 said:isn't condi mirage nerfed and now more or less even with condi renegade? or am i outdated

and what you say is 100% correct, but howany people can play multiple classes (and play it good) i tried pugging, and there it becomes clear fast :pensive:

It did get nerfed, in particular the scepter build is considered dead by sc. As far as I know axe mirage is still the go to pick for cairn,matt,largos,sh. If your concern is pugging 2 chronos- 2 druids - 1 bs is definitely going to be easier to fill with pugs.

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