Mirage Dodging - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mirage Dodging

2>

Comments

  • Esplen.3940Esplen.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    Fair enough, misread that part. Doesn't take away from the point I was making though. Namely: If YOU can't dodge out of kitten with the Distortion mechanic that you used to be able to dodge out of with a roll, it's a YOU problem.

    Well, to be fair, we went from having a "press one button" to a "let's play starcraft" in terms of dodging attacks. Yes you can dodge while standing still, but getting out of an AoE is significantly easier with a fire and forget dodge than with a dodge + camera swivel while holding forward (and if you want to be extra fancy, still attacking while circularly dodging).

    Calling it an L2P issue is severely underplaying the difficult curve that was introduced to a base game mechanic, as well as outcasting many players who don't play the game at a piano level. Heck, sometimes I'm too caught up moving around in Superspeed that I forget to dodge (funny how that works, huh). I've been going down a ton in PoF because this new dodge has me wanting to use it as an attack over a dodge and I feel extremely bad about just dodging if I can't use it to retaliate.

  • @Esplen.3940 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    Fair enough, misread that part. Doesn't take away from the point I was making though. Namely: If YOU can't dodge out of kitten with the Distortion mechanic that you used to be able to dodge out of with a roll, it's a YOU problem.

    Well, to be fair, we went from having a "press one button" to a "let's play starcraft" in terms of dodging attacks. Yes you can dodge while standing still, but getting out of an AoE is significantly easier with a fire and forget dodge than with a dodge + camera swivel while holding forward (and if you want to be extra fancy, still attacking while circularly dodging).

    Calling it an L2P issue is severely underplaying the difficult curve that was introduced to a base game mechanic, as well as outcasting many players who don't play the game at a piano level. Heck, sometimes I'm too caught up moving around in Superspeed that I forget to dodge (funny how that works, huh). I've been going down a ton in PoF because this new dodge has me wanting to use it as an attack over a dodge and I feel extremely bad about just dodging if I can't use it to retaliate.

    I'm a noob. I've just worked on muscle memory which proved to be useful in the long run. Like, you don't have to do it. The dodge still works fine, and there's other ways around it (just W + right mouse), but there's simply BETTER ways.

    This thread is about people complaining about the dodge not doing it's job correctly, while it actually might be the players not using it correctly instead.

    Like, you're surprised this change of a mechanic brings such a big change to the spec. How about Deadeye? If they want to actually deal their single target DPS, they're LOCKED in position. If they want to AoE they'll have to swap weapons. Give and take.

    For Mirage it's the same. You get a different dodge, that's allows you to be on top of your game a BIT more than the regular dodge, but the POTENTIAL is also a lot higher because you can actually move in any direction (even change directions) AND cast skills during the dodging period. Again, you lose 'press V to get out of jail free', but you get a 'press V for potential nifty things'. It's all about what you do with it.

  • @Abelisk.4527 said:
    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

    Now i think of it, wouldn't this make jumping puzzles easier as a Mirage?> @Abelisk.4527 said:

    After playing around with Mirage in PvP, I definitely feel how weak Ambushes are.

    I think the playstyle of Mirage in duels is to counterattack. When your opponent strikes, use Mirage Cloak then use the ambush. Illusionary Ambush is basically the same thing as dodging but has a more sophisticated mechanic to it.

    I feel that ambushes don't do enough to justify the 50% endurance loss. Although I love the playstyle I can't help but feel that if Mirage wants to be a dueling spec, it would need to step up its game.

    This would not only help its place in PvP/WvW as being a powerful duelist, but it would also greatly aid in PvE dps.

    I agree with you. I have a conflicting feeling about Mirage.
    I love the whole concept of Mirage, I love the playstyle and what it is supposed to be.
    But the actual implementation in the game isn't the way the spec was advertised.
    I love the Mirage Cloak dodge mechanic. But ambushes are way too weak & inconsistent for what they are. Staff doesn't land half of the time against moving enemies. And same with Axe coz its short ish range & way too slow. Scepter got nerfed like kitten as well.
    Generally they are too slow, too easily dodged and don't do enough damage.

    And it doesn't help that Mirage Mirrors are a slapped on mechanic to add more Mirage Cloak while contradicting the Mirage playstyle.

  • @Esplen.3940 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    Is technically incorrect as you can dodge against walls to prevent movement. This is part of the reason why wall-stacking was such a huge part of the dungeon meta (it not only clumped the enemies but it made sure dodges wouldn't make everyone run everywhere).

    Sure, but that isn't relevant for PvP, WvW, or most fractals or raids as far as I know.

    Additionally:

    a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills

    Are you saying that a Mesmer (or any other class) can't normally move with skills? Sure, Mesmer has never had an actual leap (Sword3 is a blink not a leap), but Mesmer and other Professions have been able to move plenty without the requirement of dodging to do so (although dodging as a panic movement most definitely exists).

    No. I'm saying that a mirage can do these movement abilities while in the dodge.

    Using Sword Ambush as a reason why Mirage Dodge is good is like saying Daredevil has good mobility because you can use Weakening Charge for movement.

    Sword is a pretty good weapon. I can't vouch for its use in PvE anymore, but it should be used in PvP.

    As for the last point:

    about the same [distance moved] with super speed.

    This is true if you are only walking in a forward direction. You cannot sidestep (that means no strafing). You cannot backpedal (that means no backwards dodges). You can move forward. Yes, you can attack during this time, but that really boils down your options to:
    1. Walk forward to avoid damage.
    2. Continue attacking.
    3. Walk forward and continue attacking.

    Each of these has it's own problems.
    1. To fine-tune your directions, this requires extreme hand-camera coordination to get the mouse swivels correct.
    2. There are many lingerings effects, both in PvE and PvP, and they usually last longer than one second.
    3. Unless you're casting an ability that doesn't require face-targeting (Phantasms, Heal, Mantras, non-target Utilities), you're sidestepping or backpedaling and therefore not actually using Superspeed. If you aren't facing your target, then the dodge is being used to it's full extent, the way it was intended. This execution requires a lot of planning ahead and doesn't usually happen, even in PvE.

    GW2 has instant turning speed, unlike a game like dota. The only limiter is your camera control, but anyone without a physical disability should be fast enough to turn in the direction that they want to move and walk forward. There are any number of abilities you can use during that time that don't require face targeting. Which is still a plus over not being able to cast anything during a dodge, the way other, more plebeian classes are.

  • tnhalbertsma.7682tnhalbertsma.7682 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @glenndevis.8327 said:

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

    Now i think of it, wouldn't this make jumping puzzles easier as a Mirage?> @Abelisk.4527 said:

    After playing around with Mirage in PvP, I definitely feel how weak Ambushes are.

    I think the playstyle of Mirage in duels is to counterattack. When your opponent strikes, use Mirage Cloak then use the ambush. Illusionary Ambush is basically the same thing as dodging but has a more sophisticated mechanic to it.

    I feel that ambushes don't do enough to justify the 50% endurance loss. Although I love the playstyle I can't help but feel that if Mirage wants to be a dueling spec, it would need to step up its game.

    This would not only help its place in PvP/WvW as being a powerful duelist, but it would also greatly aid in PvE dps.

    I agree with you. I have a conflicting feeling about Mirage.
    I love the whole concept of Mirage, I love the playstyle and what it is supposed to be.
    But the actual implementation in the game isn't the way the spec was advertised.
    I love the Mirage Cloak dodge mechanic. But ambushes are way too weak & inconsistent for what they are. Staff doesn't land half of the time against moving enemies. And same with Axe coz its short ish range & way too slow. Scepter got nerfed like kitten as well.
    Generally they are too slow, too easily dodged and don't do enough damage.

    And it doesn't help that Mirage Mirrors are a slapped on mechanic to add more Mirage Cloak while contradicting the Mirage playstyle.

    But... This is why there's so many build paths/possibilites for other ways to get Distortion/Ambush procs?

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Esplen.3940 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    Is technically incorrect as you can dodge against walls to prevent movement. This is part of the reason why wall-stacking was such a huge part of the dungeon meta (it not only clumped the enemies but it made sure dodges wouldn't make everyone run everywhere).

    Sure, but that isn't relevant for PvP, WvW, or most fractals or raids as far as I know.

    Additionally:

    a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills

    Are you saying that a Mesmer (or any other class) can't normally move with skills? Sure, Mesmer has never had an actual leap (Sword3 is a blink not a leap), but Mesmer and other Professions have been able to move plenty without the requirement of dodging to do so (although dodging as a panic movement most definitely exists).

    No. I'm saying that a mirage can do these movement abilities while in the dodge.

    Using Sword Ambush as a reason why Mirage Dodge is good is like saying Daredevil has good mobility because you can use Weakening Charge for movement.

    Sword is a pretty good weapon. I can't vouch for its use in PvE anymore, but it should be used in PvP.

    As for the last point:

    about the same [distance moved] with super speed.

    This is true if you are only walking in a forward direction. You cannot sidestep (that means no strafing). You cannot backpedal (that means no backwards dodges). You can move forward. Yes, you can attack during this time, but that really boils down your options to:
    1. Walk forward to avoid damage.
    2. Continue attacking.
    3. Walk forward and continue attacking.

    Each of these has it's own problems.
    1. To fine-tune your directions, this requires extreme hand-camera coordination to get the mouse swivels correct.
    2. There are many lingerings effects, both in PvE and PvP, and they usually last longer than one second.
    3. Unless you're casting an ability that doesn't require face-targeting (Phantasms, Heal, Mantras, non-target Utilities), you're sidestepping or backpedaling and therefore not actually using Superspeed. If you aren't facing your target, then the dodge is being used to it's full extent, the way it was intended. This execution requires a lot of planning ahead and doesn't usually happen, even in PvE.

    GW2 has instant turning speed, unlike a game like dota. The only limiter is your camera control, but anyone without a physical disability should be fast enough to turn in the direction that they want to move and walk forward. There are any number of abilities you can use during that time that don't require face targeting. Which is still a plus over not being able to cast anything during a dodge, the way other, more plebeian classes are.

    Last bit is exactly what I've been trying to say.
    Even if you feel like you're going to have to run backwards in a short while, due to potential enemy AoE's incoming, you can simply continue fighting (or running) while changing the camera with the left mouse button. Then, right as you have to run backwards, you press the right mouse button. Now you're running full speed, plus you can use W as well as the strafing buttons while running at the maximum possible movement speed (no backwards/sideways reduction).

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Okay so to help with the ambushes I went power. I don't think I'll go back to condi. If you want the build for what I use in pvp u can ask me

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    I'm a noob. I've just worked on muscle memory which proved to be useful in the long run. Like, you don't have to do it. The dodge still works fine, and there's other ways around it (just W + right mouse), but there's simply BETTER ways.

    The fact that you had to muscle memory around a base mechanic should tell you that something is off. The simple ways of working around the issue are less effective than basic dodge. The advanced ways of working around the issue add a lot of extra inputs on top of an already twitchy class gameplay. No other of the 26 class/elites has to deal with this kind of issue. Hence it's the player having to fight against his own class design.

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    This thread is about people complaining about the dodge not doing it's job correctly, while it actually might be the players not using it correctly instead.

    Nobody said the dodge doesn't work, and no this is not about the dodge not working. It's about the extra amount of effort required for such a basic action which 26 other classes/elite specialisations do not have to deal with.

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    Like, you're surprised this change of a mechanic brings such a big change to the spec. How about Deadeye? If they want to actually deal their single target DPS, they're LOCKED in position. If they want to AoE they'll have to swap weapons. Give and take.

    Not sure how this is even a comparison. The deadeye does insane damage at range and sacrifices movement while gaining 5 second reveal removal (and thus better stealth or restealth uptime), keeps his usual thief evasion once on the move and has a lot of tools to deal with his mechanic. Plus dealing subpar damage is barely comparable to not being able to fully or comparably access one of the most basic functions of combat in an action combat based MMO.

    I get it though, better compare it to Deadeye instead of Daredevil (which thematically is way closer to Mirage than Deadeye) since in case of DD you'd look pretty foolish.

    It's funny how people explaining how to properly utilize the Mirage dodge go into all these big explenations of how to setup keybinds, how to use auto-face, how the movement aspect of dodge is not needed, etc.

    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    No. That's an elite spec behaving correctly. They should be gameplay altering.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    No. That's an elite spec behaving correctly. They should be gameplay altering.

    The spec would be gameplay altering even if designed with normal dodge. Your point?

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    No. That's an elite spec behaving correctly. They should be gameplay altering.

    The spec would be gameplay altering even if designed with normal dodge. Your point?

    Not nearly enough. The only things new that it would bring are illusion retargeting.

    I could maybe see your point if adjusting to the dodge mechanics of mirage was difficult. It isn't it simply takes a few minutes practice. Believe me when I say that I am bad at this game, but after practicing a bit with the new mechanics, I've had very little trouble adjusting to them. It doesn't take starcraft levels of micro to turn your character. it takes normal levels of micro.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    No. That's an elite spec behaving correctly. They should be gameplay altering.

    The spec would be gameplay altering even if designed with normal dodge. Your point?

    Not nearly enough. The only things new that it would bring are illusion retargeting.

    I could maybe see your point if adjusting to the dodge mechanics of mirage was difficult. It isn't it simply takes a few minutes practice. Believe me when I say that I am bad at this game, but after practicing a bit with the new mechanics, I've had very little trouble adjusting to them. It doesn't take starcraft levels of micro to turn your character. it takes normal levels of micro.

    Oh I believe you, no reason to convince me. You've shown your skill level and which game modes you play quite clearly.

    So adjusting to a inferior mechanic is all it takes. Fine, if that's the level of balance you are content with. Let's see how things pan out after a couple of weeks for everything to settle. I'm pretty sure Mirage will get some love and changes by that time, or chrono might get nerfed or both.

    Meanwhile I've finished the PoF story on my Mirage and will be switching back to chrono starting monday for raids.

  • atlashugged.7642atlashugged.7642 Member ✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So adjusting to a inferior mechanic is all it takes.

    No. adjusting to a superior mechanic, with a higher skill floor.

    EDIT: I should say that I hope mirage recieves some work in the future too, but definitely not related to the dodging. It doesn't need any fixes to the dodging.

    The areas mirage is lacking in are the ambush skills that aren't MIrage Thrust, and Mirage Mirror generation.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    Its needs the normal dodge given back and an actual new mechanic added so that it can actually be an elite spec.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @Daishi.6027 said:
    If super speed kept a constant for all 8 directions it would feel much better.

    (Use the mouse/camera and mouse buttons)

    Backpeddling should never be the same movement speed as running forward. That'd actually make for some really kitten gameplay.

    It's not about backpeddling, it's about having a reasonably simple parillel to our missing directional doges that every class has access to, and it feeling good to use.

    Being forced to turn your cam in unessisary ways to compensate for a flawed mechanic is the real kitten gameplay.

    If there had to be an added amending mechanic to implement this just for mirage (to preventall super speed being broken) then it can simply be added as part of the minor.

  • Other class forums are discussing dps... This one is talking about how to dodge out if aoe with amazing new class mechanic...
    Isn't it showing something by itself?

    (and yes I still hate crippling superspeed, think it should be replaced with blink and do not think dodging should require pressing 5 buttons & rotating camera)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    @Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:
    Other class forums are discussing dps... This one is talking about how to dodge out if aoe with amazing new class mechanic...
    Isn't it showing something by itself?

    (and yes I still hate crippling superspeed, think it should be replaced with blink and do not think dodging should require pressing 5 buttons & rotating camera)

    I know right?

    Mesmers get to practice their new dodge mechanic so they can reach a suboptimal dps on the target golem.

    Meanwhile all the other elite classes are concerned with how much their elite will get nerfed because it does to much damage or how much it needs to get buffed to be vaible while practicing their actual rotation without having to worry about adapting to a restrictive dodge mechanic.

    When the main issue disscussed about a spec is deviating so much from all other classes, just maybe something is off. Then again you will have the hardliner "every thing is fine, learn to play issues" faction harping on and on. Just as they did before Mirage released and we all know how that turned out (and let's not imagine how this forum would look or what state the class would be in if the last minute buffs had not happened).

  • tnhalbertsma.7682tnhalbertsma.7682 Member ✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    I'm a noob. I've just worked on muscle memory which proved to be useful in the long run. Like, you don't have to do it. The dodge still works fine, and there's other ways around it (just W + right mouse), but there's simply BETTER ways.

    The fact that you had to muscle memory around a base mechanic should tell you that something is off. The simple ways of working around the issue are less effective than basic dodge. The advanced ways of working around the issue add a lot of extra inputs on top of an already twitchy class gameplay. No other of the 26 class/elites has to deal with this kind of issue. Hence it's the player having to fight against his own class design.

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    This thread is about people complaining about the dodge not doing it's job correctly, while it actually might be the players not using it correctly instead.

    Nobody said the dodge doesn't work, and no this is not about the dodge not working. It's about the extra amount of effort required for such a basic action which 26 other classes/elite specialisations do not have to deal with.

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    Like, you're surprised this change of a mechanic brings such a big change to the spec. How about Deadeye? If they want to actually deal their single target DPS, they're LOCKED in position. If they want to AoE they'll have to swap weapons. Give and take.

    Not sure how this is even a comparison. The deadeye does insane damage at range and sacrifices movement while gaining 5 second reveal removal (and thus better stealth or restealth uptime), keeps his usual thief evasion once on the move and has a lot of tools to deal with his mechanic. Plus dealing subpar damage is barely comparable to not being able to fully or comparably access one of the most basic functions of combat in an action combat based MMO.

    I get it though, better compare it to Deadeye instead of Daredevil (which thematically is way closer to Mirage than Deadeye) since in case of DD you'd look pretty foolish.

    It's funny how people explaining how to properly utilize the Mirage dodge go into all these big explenations of how to setup keybinds, how to use auto-face, how the movement aspect of dodge is not needed, etc.

    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    Fair enough on the DD/DE part. Barely any experience on those so I can't comment. However, from the bits and pirces of time invested on my Deadeye, it felt incredibly clunky, but that's probably just the learning curve/getting used to mechanics and keybinds.

    This though, imo, is the case with Mirage as well. You're saying it requires extra effort, which yeah ofcourse it does. For me it came more natural because the keybinds I've been running on any MMO I've played from when I started WoW. As a Hunter there you had to basically run in a straight line, jump everytime you wanted to land some shots, 180 mid air, click the buttons, 180 back, and continue running. This was simply the most effective way to kite. Now, luckily this came in handy for Mirage.

    I realise it sucks for people not used to the controls, and again, I'm not even a good point of reference in this game due to not having spent a lot of time on 80 characters/end game content. Still, I feel like if people play around with this, even for a couple more weeks or a month, things will start to take shape. It's been two days, I know people are discontent with the mechanics and the way the counteract eachother, but I'm positive it CAN work. It just requires some time spent learning and getting used to things. But hey, that's not a bad thing imo.

    Again, I'm having fun with the spec, and believe I will continue to do so for quite a while (although I do have the tendency to get bored rather quickly). Hoping Anet will smoothen things out in the long run, I know they can (months, not years), but as much for their sake as ours.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The fact THAT you have to explain to someone that Mirage needs this much more attention than any of the other classes/elites is exactly the reason why people are arguing that you have to play against your own class design first and foremost. The difference in gameplay is onething, but when you have to completely change how you play the game on this basic a level to fit 1 elite specialisation, you are compansating for a flaw.

    No. That's an elite spec behaving correctly. They should be gameplay altering.

    The spec would be gameplay altering even if designed with normal dodge. Your point?

    There's already loads of people complaining that they haven't changed nearly enough already. Or not the right things, at least.

    (Which I can somewhat agree with)

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    This is broken again. Right now mirage cloak gives you a 55% reduction is sideways movement compared to a normal dodge and a 73.75% reduction in backwards movement while dodging compared to a normal dodge.

    These types of numbers mean it is NOT a 'learn to play' issue!

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just want to second that.
    The only good thing about mirage dodge now is that you can do it while stunned, everything else is a downgrade of a normal dodge.
    Attack while evading?! Yeah right...every ambush cast lasts 1second+ more than the mirage cloak.
    At this point mirage is the only profession on game who doesn't have a mechanic.

    The degenerate

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2019

    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:
    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

    Or they could have took one of the previous suggestions (if it was feasible) and changed EM so that instead of breaking a stun, it just let you dodge while sunned. That way they could have reduced the ridiculous exhaustion that shouldn't even be present in the game to begin with. However, now it seems like instead everything is breaking down.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

    Or they could have took one of the previous suggestions (if it was feasible) and changed EM so that instead of breaking a stun, it just let you dodge while sunned. That way they could have reduced the ridiculous exhaustion that shouldn't even be present in the game to begin with. However, now it seems like instead everything is breaking down.

    Every single nerf as if it was entire damage removal from axe(not being able to cast axe ambush behind as well), our cry of pain trait confusion removal, reducing MC without cutting ambush cast time and many others are unnecessary and just dumb . All other busted specs werent touched even because everyone are busy crying about mesmer.
    Once they gut scepter even without gutting chaos. We will be left with nothing . Every single nerf even nto being able to cast ambush behind(seen with my own eyes this post but CBA to look for it) was taken from PVP QQ subforum so they shut up .

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

    Or they could have took one of the previous suggestions (if it was feasible) and changed EM so that instead of breaking a stun, it just let you dodge while sunned. That way they could have reduced the ridiculous exhaustion that shouldn't even be present in the game to begin with. However, now it seems like instead everything is breaking down.

    Every single nerf as if it was entire damage removal from axe(not being able to cast axe ambush behind as well), our cry of pain trait confusion removal, reducing MC without cutting ambush cast time and many others are unnecessary and just dumb . All other busted specs werent touched even because everyone are busy crying about mesmer.
    Once they gut scepter even without gutting chaos. We will be left with nothing . Every single nerf even nto being able to cast ambush behind(seen with my own eyes this post but CBA to look for it) was taken from PVP QQ subforum so they shut up .

    The first time not being able to cast ambush behind was mentioned was on countless video - around 2.40 time , then it propagated to forums.

    The degenerate

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

    Or they could have took one of the previous suggestions (if it was feasible) and changed EM so that instead of breaking a stun, it just let you dodge while sunned. That way they could have reduced the ridiculous exhaustion that shouldn't even be present in the game to begin with. However, now it seems like instead everything is breaking down.

    Every single nerf as if it was entire damage removal from axe(not being able to cast axe ambush behind as well), our cry of pain trait confusion removal, reducing MC without cutting ambush cast time and many others are unnecessary and just dumb . All other busted specs werent touched even because everyone are busy crying about mesmer.
    Once they gut scepter even without gutting chaos. We will be left with nothing . Every single nerf even nto being able to cast ambush behind(seen with my own eyes this post but CBA to look for it) was taken from PVP QQ subforum so they shut up .

    The first time not being able to cast ambush behind was mentioned was on countless video - around 2.40 time , then it propagated to forums.

    Nah im just done. Hypocrisy is overflowing from everyone on this forum . Nerf that kitten mesmers and dont touch my class!Look at Trevor using exact same excuses as some mirage players like he jsut copied them . The other two making a look like engineer shouldnt ever get nerfed ,especially core (hi chaith,because only engineer core matters ,not any other), if something is beyond ridiculous OP they are convienced it has to be that way. Seeing that over and over and see from them calling others biased and 'not qualified to have an opinion' is ...ridiculous censored
    I'm so done with this :D

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    TBH, there isn't much denying that condi mirage needed a nerf. They just may have overdid it a little in some aspects and took down some other traits or skills in the process.

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭

    I like mirage precisely because of the dodge mechanic. It doesn't have to be the same as normal dodge and that's fine. If you don't like it don't play it.

    too bad that it's completely understatted and overnerfed atm

    the condi duration on teh skills is exceptionally low and you can only make good use of it with + condi duration and then you sacrifice either power (which is also a must have) either hp which is another must have

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    This is absolutely savagery and ignorance from Anet and straight insult for every mirage player to tell we have to get used to trashed elite spec mechanic as ambush and no visual indication when MC start and end .Especially after its beng around over a YEAR and expect people to get used to this is just bs
    Can we make un-usable during STUN (not daze as normal evade) and revert every single nerf we had for over a year ?

    Or they could have took one of the previous suggestions (if it was feasible) and changed EM so that instead of breaking a stun, it just let you dodge while sunned. That way they could have reduced the ridiculous exhaustion that shouldn't even be present in the game to begin with. However, now it seems like instead everything is breaking down.

    Every single nerf as if it was entire damage removal from axe(not being able to cast axe ambush behind as well), our cry of pain trait confusion removal, reducing MC without cutting ambush cast time and many others are unnecessary and just dumb . All other busted specs werent touched even because everyone are busy crying about mesmer.
    Once they gut scepter even without gutting chaos. We will be left with nothing . Every single nerf even nto being able to cast ambush behind(seen with my own eyes this post but CBA to look for it) was taken from PVP QQ subforum so they shut up .

    The first time not being able to cast ambush behind was mentioned was on countless video - around 2.40 time , then it propagated to forums.

    Nah im just done. Hypocrisy is overflowing from everyone on this forum . Nerf that kitten mesmers and dont touch my class!Look at Trevor using exact same excuses as some mirage players like he jsut copied them . The other two making a look like engineer shouldnt ever get nerfed ,especially core (hi chaith,because only engineer core matters ,not any other), if something is beyond ridiculous OP they are convienced it has to be that way. Seeing that over and over and see from them calling others biased and 'not qualified to have an opinion' is ...ridiculous censored
    I'm so done with this :D

    In Countless's thread where he posed his personal changes he'd like to see Mesmers get, Trevor called his nerf suggestions a mesmer Trojan Horse and a secret buff mesmer wishlist instead. Then he complained about how other classes only ever get nerfs, while mesmer only gets buffs, even though literally every balance patch brings a mix of nerfs and buffs for every profession except mesmers.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.