Full Minstrels meta on Chrono needs to stop. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Full Minstrels meta on Chrono needs to stop.

Why is anyone ever asking a chrono to go over 1551 toughness?

Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They dont anymore its people like me with outdated chrono alts I guess.

  • Well in raids some bosses are tanked with thoughness and its easier to do that on minstrel. I generally like minstrel chrono more than diviner because you fulfill your role as a support better if you can endure more dmg.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dont know where you saw that but most chronos now have 1000 toughness so i usualy tank with 1005-1280 (depends on soulbeasts, renegades, firebrands...)
    If I see a chrono with high toughness that doesnt want to tank then it would be usualy better to leave that squad since statisticaly they are baaaaaad.

  • @Linken.6345 said:
    They dont anymore its people like me with outdated chrono alts I guess.

    Can confirm. Cant be kitten to give this alt Diviner stats just for pugs.

  • Both @Cyninja.2954 & @Vinceman.4572 have great advice:

    • Make sure you're clear as to what you want from your chronos
    • Make sure the non-chronos aren't themselves overly 'tough'.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    Kitty personally prefers using minstrel's or harrier's for chronoing to provide a decent amount of heals while at it since pugs tend to take massive amounts of damage and downed is a huge dps loss. Though if the squad is really good, it can be worth it to push for dps. But well, better play it safe than sorry, Kitty likes to say.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, announcements and news at twitter.com/LadyKittyGW2 and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally as a handkiter I prefer chronos on Deimos who can go relatively high toughness - while handkiting is rather safe and easy on builds like soulbeast, one lag spike or misclick can result in a wipe and most kiters feel more comfortable with higher toughness - hence tank needs to be able to outcap that.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Why not go Minstrels? You can make your own LFG posts or demand that your static chronos don't use it, or even better, play a Chrono yourself so you have to deal with only one other Chrono at most. I've wiped far too many times on PUGs that thought they were so meta that they didn't need two healers, tough Chronos, Scourges, and so on and so on, only to join a more chill group moments after that got it on first try with a subpar timer result.

    If you're a PUG commander and you spend a half hour every time you want to kill a boss looking for a perfect meta 60+KP group, it's all up to you, but that sounds pretty inefficient. When I PUG I want it to be a first try above all else, not a fast kill after 3 tries, therefore mechanics experience and easy to use builds are far higher in priority than GOAT Chronos with 1005 toughness that will absolutely leave midfight if the run is not exactly like they're used to. Neither of us can claim the other's playstyle is objectively bad, just stop complaining about people you are not obligated to play with.

  • I do play chrono, I support with 1096 t and like to tank with 1445-1555ish. I switch to hk as I don't like explaining how I would like the fight to go in PUGs (as someone said above). All I'm saying is that in GW1 it would be strange if I was duoing UW and the SS brought insidious parasite and not SS for dmg because it increases his lifespan I'd just leave. I don't like just leaving pugs and watching them then wipe/be in lfg looking for different comps for hours so it would help if we could all adapt to a meta? I'm not sure we want chronos that want to play full minstrel.....?

  • @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    I do play chrono, I support with 1096 t and like to tank with 1445-1555ish.

    Why do you complain about minstrel chronos when you dont play optimally yourself?

    if we could all adapt to a meta? I'm >not sure we want chronos that want to play full minstrel.....?

    As soon as pugs play with 1 Druid only and without a second healer i gladly regear my alt chrono to be able to tank with 1251 max. Otherwise i cant be bother to do this on my second account.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    I'm not sure we want chronos that want to play full minstrel.....?

    And why wouldn't that be the case? Do you wipe more often having chrono(s) on full minstrel? Of course not, because it is helping the group a lot. See, you don't need the extra dps from the chrono in the first place. Sure, for some easier encounters like for example Gorseval the additional dps will facilitate things but on the other side people haven't played/aren't playing minstrel there anyways. We are talking about stuff like Xera, Soulless Horror etc. and here it makes no difference if your chrono tank is minstrel or not. If your group isn't able to survive &/or do enough damage it's definitely not due to chronos being minstrel. All bosses are easy to handle with players just knowing how to (a.k.a. knowing mechanics) and doing appropriate damage (very far from being optimal is enough here).

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2019

    If you have a problem with second chrono going so high on toughness you can't easily go above that, just inform them that either they go lower, or they are the main tank from now on. If they are the main tank however, you really shouldn't care how high they go as long as you're lower. It's not like it negatively affects the performance in a pug group - chrono dps really is not an issue unless you are seriously tryharding. And if you are seriously tryharding in a pug group, then you've probably made a wrong turn somewhere, because it definitely isn't the place for this.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Why is anyone ever asking a chrono to go over 1551 toughness?

    I started HKing recently on my chrono and for safety I went with minstrels to ensure I can handle the damage pressure with high effective HP and some boon duration on my prot and alacrity. As I get better at the rotation, I'll be lowering the toughness by switching to more Magi. Every group I'm in I say "17xx but can go lower" but the tank always just goes higher.

    When I started raiding last year I started in full exotic givers (because it was cheap on the TP) and I just accepted that I would always be tank until I got better gear.

    If someone cannot go lower than 1500, just tell them to tank or leave. :)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah, I forgot .. this is the game where I let OTHERS tell me how to play ...

    No, wait, it's not.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    Ah, I forgot .. this is the game where I let OTHERS tell me how to play ...

    No, wait, it's not.

    Exactly, if you want to play your way, you can lead your own group.

    If you want to tank at 1005, just tag up and enforce your rules with a clear LFG message.

    If you are tired of getting kicked because you have 1500+ toughness and don't want to tank, start your own group and find a tank with higher toughness with a clear LFG message.

  • Do you wipe more often having chrono(s) on full minstrel?

    Yes. Yes I do. They often can't upkeep buffs (don't know rote) they usually mistime shield 4, sword 2 and you better not be expecting aegis. The full minstrels chrono does not know the ways of guild wars.....

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:

    Do you wipe more often having chrono(s) on full minstrel?

    Yes. Yes I do. They often can't upkeep buffs (don't know rote) they usually mistime shield 4, sword 2 and you better not be expecting aegis. The full minstrels chrono does not know the ways of guild wars.....

    You listed some things that only affect the Chrono (such as missing their personal blocks and evades - but they are Minstrel, so I'll find it very hard to believe they die on your anecdote), as well something you shouldn't be needing since you know the mechanics yourself - if you know the mechanics, aegis is a bonus you can go without, and if the group is not exactly setup how you want it to be setup, why should it be expected then?

    Most importantly of course you talk about upkeeping buffs. https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats seems to disagree with your hypothesis. The sample size for Support Chronos is pretty large (13k+ logs) and the 50th percentile are right up there with full buffing output (even for aegis, remarkably). I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but how are you claiming this, specially using loaded words such as "usually", "they often" and "X does not know the way [at all times]..."? Furthermore, how can you even reliably know your anecdotal bad cases were Minstrel's Chronos and not something even whackier like Givers, or just bad pugs trying to pull off Diviners?

    For one, I know GW2Raidar is biased towards "the best" because your average player would not quite upload there often. But if you're a veteran raider your own groups should be skewed towards this better population by now, unless you're complaining about training runs and that makes no sense. In sum, you should be playing with the people who tend to upload logs there (assuming you play with experienced people - the only case where complaining about such specific building counts), and therefore I find it hard to believe you're actually experiencing Minstrel Chronos that "often" can't upkeep buffs. Does that mean you "often" fail to kill bosses?

    Last but not least, we can't even know if the pug Minstrel Chrono is at fault when something does go wrong. Pugs are notoriously bad at positioning, to the point that some DPS players actually play worse when they pug because they can't do certain mechanics and instead always get aegis/heal carried by their statics. This forces them to go far from the group instead of simple sidestepping/dodging key boss attacks, losing a lot of buffs in the process. This was a large post but I guess the overall feeling remains: "Why is anyone ever asking a chrono to go over 1551 toughness?" - no one has to ask, people can play however they want, and everyone else have a clear choice on whether or not to play together.

  • I'm not sure if trolling. The sample size is massively distorted from LFG (as these people don't log much or they wouldn't be in LFG anymore) and I'm not sure if you think support chronos are running full minstrels and tanks are running full minstrels with toughness infusions? Because this is the only way my brain cloud make sense of that essay you typed. :(

    • no one has to ask, people can play however they want, and everyone else have a clear choice on whether or not to play together.

    I don't get your point, is it that you think its fine for everyone to just ruin half of all runs and force comms to kick by running ludicrous gear? How about if the dps just stack soldiers gear until they're 5 t under the tank? As in, are you saying that is a healthy LFG meta? I just don't understand your point of view.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    I'm not sure if trolling. The sample size is massively distorted from LFG (as these people don't log much or they wouldn't be in LFG anymore)

    The sample size is quite large regardless, and playing Minstrels make it easier, not harder to achieve at least 70% uptime, even for newbies who spam random skills. This is more than enough to kill bosses if people know the mechanics (which is, I emphasize, the most relevant aspect of a successful kill). Again, why do you assume people like Vince and RaidsAreEasy do not play in LFG? I'd say lots of veterans play there even after their weekly clear, with alts and sometimes just for the sake of it. So you're still playing with a lot of veterans even by using LFG.

    And from my own anecdotal experience (since we must use that...), you'd be getting runs faster than plainly using LFG by hopping onto some of the discord channels like RIT - and would find experienced players more often than not. Experienced enough to not commit to many of the mistakes you're supposedly finding very often. If that's not how you're playing, I suggest you do it. But regardless, LFG doesn't seem to be that desolate place where you keep losing because your Chrono is playing Minstrel, unless you're assuming that this is who you should always blame, instead of faulty DPS/bad positioning/lack of mechanics.

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:

    and I'm not sure if you think support chronos are running full minstrels and tanks are running full minstrels with toughness infusions? Because this is the only way my brain cloud make sense of that essay you typed. :(

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:

    Do you wipe more often having chrono(s) on full minstrel?

    Yes. Yes I do. They often can't upkeep buffs (don't know rote) they usually mistime shield 4, sword 2 and you better not be expecting aegis. The full minstrels chrono does not know the ways of guild wars.....

    Well, every single thing you mentioned has nothing to do with having toughness, so I'm not really assuming anything, but you are assuming that people are running Minstrels when they miss skill activation and when they can't upkeep buffs, and I wonder just why assume that? A full diviners Chrono can still get pretty bad DPS results on arcDPS so you couldn't use that as a sign that they are using Minstrel. There is no gear check and I can ping anything I may or may not be using.

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:

    • no one has to ask, people can play however they want, and everyone else have a clear choice on whether or not to play together.

    I don't get your point, is it that you think its fine for everyone to just ruin half of all runs and force comms to kick by running ludicrous gear? How about if the dps just stack soldiers gear until they're 5 t under the tank? As in, are you saying that is a healthy LFG meta? I just don't understand your point of view.

    Whose runs are being ruined? Most people in this topic seem to be fine with "ludicrous gear" or at least fine with kicking (and we have to go by the people who personally posted here, if you absolutely can't trust the only statistics available @gw2raidar). Your example doesn't help either - a team full of soldiers gear DPS can probably kill every single boss with more or less difficulty - provided they know the mechanics. They don't do it because it doesn't make things easier (i.e allows for mistakes), but Minstrels do allow for more mistakes, and hence you will find it on pugs. Likewise for Scourge healers or even full scourge teams. A healthy LFG meta is one where things get done in first tries and the speedrunning meta often fails to achieve this with average players, or even with veteran players who want to pug with their alts, and have to bear the weight of less experienced people, which is where things like Minstrels help a lot. How exactly does toughness help or inhibit our ability to upkeep buffs or properly activate skills in time? Your complaint should be about the quality of people you find in LFG, not about their armor, for it to make at least a bit of sense.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    I'm not sure if trolling. The sample size is massively distorted from LFG (as these people don't log much or they wouldn't be in LFG anymore) and I'm not sure if you think support chronos are running full minstrels and tanks are running full minstrels with toughness infusions? Because this is the only way my brain cloud make sense of that essay you typed. :(

    and if support chronos ran minstrel? All they would have to do replace is 1 piece of gear to drop below the tank, no need for infusions.

    You're asking others about trolling while you:

    • started this topic with misunderstanding why OTHER classes would want chronos to go minstrel
    • told us how you are running subpar setups yourself (there is 0 reason to run even 1 toughness on support, and good tanks tank with 1,035 toughness)
    • give absolutely unrelated examples which are not even close from GW1 and equate minstrel gear on chrono with soldier gear for dps
    • trash on supposedly chronos who run minstrel (which was considered meta 2 patches ago by the way, even by snowcrows)

    What is your goal here? You have proven to more experienced chronos that you are adequate at best, yet rage about supposedly worse players? Do you really want some of the good chronos here to dismantle your thread?

    If you don't want to have PUG minstrel chrono, then don't take one along. Build your squad the way you like. Leave the condescending and arrogant attitude to people who are actually good at the class.

    If you're hoping for other players to agree, especially experienced chronos, that minstrel is somehow trash, sorry to disappoint. It's a great set for what it provides. Knowing when to use it is something a good chrono should pick up.

  • Compleo.3182Compleo.3182 Member ✭✭
    edited April 8, 2019

    It's funny how ppl want dps to run berserker/viper for the best dps, but they dont mind chronos running garbage builds. Anyway, minstrel is a safe choice, but if you run it for every boss, you are just bad. For example, bosses like MO or Sab have nothing to tank. Deimos(if group has low dps), Desmina and some other high pressure bosses can require higher toughness. Even then, they are possible with 1005 or similar. People care about boons and tend to ignore the fact that some chronos have 0 idea or abilities to use best gear or build for every boss. But if you kick a chrono, you will waste much more time searching for a new one than killing a boss and carrying 0 dps chrono. And it's easily possible to keep boon 100% on a squad with sub 50 BD, but your both chronos need to have hands and press buttons.

    P.s. I saw some people said that dps'es expect aegis all the time. It is true in some cases like Gorseval. Chronos should be able to provide aegis for at least 95% of slams and dps players should not dodge that attack most of the times.

  • I run 1096 as too many runs had 1 or too people on 1050ish, the other setups are for soulbeasts/FBs. Am also pretty sure i clarified my understanding of toughness by stating how it's not needed if the chrono is hitting 2 and 4 moderately ok. But whatever, will do on the retreating away from lfg front. cheers for the tips on minstrels -1 piece support chrono.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Compleo.3182 said:
    It's funny how ppl want dps to run berserker/viper for the best dps, but they dont mind chronos running garbage builds. Anyway, minstrel is a safe choice, but if you run it for every boss, you are just bad. For example, bosses like MO or Sab have nothing to tank. Deimos(if group has low dps), Desmina and some other high pressure bosses can require higher toughness. Even then, they are possible with 1005 or similar. People care about boons and tend to ignore the fact that some chronos have 0 idea or abilities to use best gear or build for every boss. But if you kick a chrono, you will waste much more time searching for a new one than killing a boss and carrying 0 dps chrono. And it's easily possible to keep boon 100% on a squad with sub 50 BD, but your both chronos need to have hands and press buttons.

    P.s. I saw some people said that dps'es expect aegis all the time. It is true in some cases like Gorseval. Chronos should be able to provide aegis for at least 95% of slams and dps players should not dodge that attack most of the times.

    Sure, but you are now throwing in a ton of things which have not been covered in this thread.

    1.) where is the quantification for minstrel on certain bosses from TC? People responding are the ones who brought this up. So far TC has simply been bashing minstrel across the board. No experienced chrono would advocate for running minstrel on all bosses, I think many regulars have made that clear already. Yet it would be possible (and as mentioned, if we are min-maxing then there is a ton of things which a group could do BEFORE replacing the minstrel chrono)
    2.) running minstrel on all bosses is safe. Most PUGs are bad. Enough said.
    3.) Gearing a chrono is expensive. Not all players have 40 ascended sets and multiple thousand gold at their disposal. Chronos are rare.
    4.) the skill level of a chrono can vary gear independent. There is nothing wrong with making the first set full minstrel and working from there. I personally would take an inexperienced minstrel chrono over an inexperienced berserker chrono any day (when running training or helping my guild, I usually FC on mondays with experienced groups so not really an issue personally)
    5.) Bosses I would expect people to use minstrel on in a PUG setting: Potentially Xera if running solo druid, Deimos, Desmina and Dhuum. The trade off for personal survivability is just to useful for low and mid tier PUG groups. Throw in Matthias for added safety since some people just can't deal with that boss.

    Yes, there is terrible chronos. There is terrible dps. There terrible healers.

    I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, there is terrible chronos. There is terrible dps. There terrible healers.

    I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

    Again, excellent posts!

    The last passage is one of the most important one for me. If I'm raiding for the first time of the week I want to have my full clear (at least in the past when I was playing this game more regularly). Nothing is easier to have a full minstrel chrono for tanking so everyone else (2nd chrono, some other support builds besides strict meta) do not need to care about toughness and the risk of wiping. It's the same in the lfg (at least in the past), the majority want to kill bosses not speed clearing or running funny/interesting/special tactics. For that, having a full minstrel chrono - of course knowing how to tank and play his role - is the best you can take because it assures that at first you'll have a quite safe perfect boon duration and if anything goes different than expected your chrono won't get oneshotted. I've seen Dhuum runs with overconfident 1100 toughness chronos (Voice of the Void, gazillion of kps) where we wiped several times due to them and not to greens, shackles and other stuff. No need to mentioned we easily killed him later on with a far more tankier chrono.

    The damage you need to deal for every boss is so "low" that you can easily run double minstrel chrono + double druid or druid + another healer and the rest 1 warrior + non-super-duper-dps and you don't get into trouble due to the timer. Fact is, even with that comp you have a couple of minutes left on several bosses before you hit the enrage timer.

  • I don't see how taking minstrel as a first set on a tank chrono is in any way a bad idea though. Not everyone has been running this class for 3.5 years in raids or gets the chance to train 6 days a week. I've even tanked all wings in full minstrel when not needed. Why? Because it's just that much more fun to 1shot every boss and carry a PUG team.

    Thanks for the clarification. Do you rate healing power? or do you think that minstrel is never BiS? Could I satisfy the Dhuum requirements for example by subbing berserker pieces for power/tough/feroc and keeping diviners for 50-60% BD?

  • @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for the clarification. Do you rate healing power? or do you think that minstrel is never BiS? Could I satisfy the Dhuum requirements for example by subbing >berserker pieces for power/tough/feroc and keeping diviners for 50-60% BD?

    Its BiS if you wanna be as tanky as possible. You only need 1101 toughness for Dhuum, since your renegade get 100 with the Mallyx Elite. Technically you also dont need more since the tank gets some damage reduction from the encounter anyway and if played correctly you can block/evade every attack anyway. Buuuuuuuut... If you want to go safer, which is something you should probably do if you arent that exp on the class or your group just sucks in general, swap berserker for Knights while keeping your BD. Knights (Power/Prec/Toughness, main stat toughness) is more optimal.

  • swap berserker for Knights while keeping your BD. Knights (Power/Prec/Toughness, main stat toughness) is more optimal.

    Thanks so much, this is exactly what I wanted to hear/understand :)

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait, did you use your CD Key as your account name? lol.

  • No, to my understanding its just a uuid, everytime its been changed it reverts back.

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Why is anyone ever asking a chrono to go over 1551 toughness?

    Bad meme. Chrono is currently the lowest dps support class in the game.

    -Boon Tempest (power) 25,377
    -Boon Tempest (condi) 27,010
    -Power Quickness Firebrand 22,219
    -Condi Quickness Firebrand 26,411
    -Alacrity Renegade 22,185
    -Boon Herald 27,200

    At this point I think it's almost relevant to put down Bannerslave so here are the numbers:

    -Banner Warrior 25,427
    -Power Banner Berserker 29,934
    -Condition Banner Berserker 31,709

    Whilst boon chrono is around 13k dps.... nice meme indeed. Also, almost every comp now are running an alacrity renegade, which makes it pretty much irrelevant to say "but Chrono provide both Alacrity and Quickness" Because if you drop Alacrity Wells, you're still short from 26k dps. Unless you start doing some serious change.

  • I play chrono, I run toughness cause I'm to lazy to swap for every different situation when I pug.

    Lets be real almost no group will start to look for a different chrono. Hence you can pull this off without getting replaced.

    Now if the 2nd chrono really wants to play with 1600 toughness or more, he will be tank. I have a reasonable amount of toughness when I tank and I am not gonna increase it.

    So yeah nobody in a pug cares about chrono dps and I can not be asked to have multiple gear sets for a class that ultimately no one wants to play.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    So yeah nobody in a pug cares about chrono dps and I can not be asked to have multiple gear sets for a class that ultimately no one wants to play.

    That's basically the best summary of the whole situation.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    So don't worry about dps, think only abut boons. Someone don't like - leave and put on waiting hit all prev party! And open yours lfg. If ppl understand yours gameplay thay add you on friend list, if not like - they block.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    I just made minstrel chrono. I will listen to random strangers on internet and not play it. /s

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What is this minstrel chrono meta that you are talking about :'D are you saying that pugs still use minstrel chrono?

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem is not a minstrel chrono in general. The problem is someone who plays minstrel chrono but refuse to tank

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Very surprising this topic lasted so long. In the end it amounts to @DutchRiders.2871 post I guess; Chrono is in very high demand and very low supply. If you don't want to take a Minstrel Chrono (or even two!), the extra wait for the whole squad is up to you. It certainly won't be a problem to the Chrono.

  • It's probably useless now to post anything in this topic but I do it anyway. I mostly bring in my two cents about PUG groups though, since that is what I do mostly anyway.

    Quite frankly I don't understand all this drama, no matter if it's about toughness or BD.

    If I'm the tank in rather high damage encounters like Deimos (ranged especially), Xera, SH and Largos, I would be stupid NOT to run minstrel actually and stay alive on my own (again talking about PUG). I dont't know how many low toughness tanks I saw by now at those specific encounters, who wiped multiple times or need perma heals in order not to die, especially Deimos and Xera. Why bother with "higher dps" in a game In PUGs, where there are no hard dps checks? Most of those people in LFG just want their kills. Those chronos trying to be "good and meta" sure as hell don't make that easy. I couldn't personally care less if the boss dies 20 seconds faster or not. Some people just try too hard for literally nothing in LFG, like copying all those meta and speedkill strats while sucking badly at it (no matter if it's raids or fractals)... oh well, that's another topic.

    Depending on your weapons (like focus for add control) and the duration of the phase of a boss, you have most likely no time to dps much anyway (plenty of stuff to cast and watch out for).

    Out of topic:
    Not going for 100% BD in PUGs isn't smart either. You can't expect the optimal situation in a random group. Better to put out more duration in the case that people run out of your wells during the fight. I wish some people would pay more attention to boon uptime numbers instead of dps numbers when they play instead of just copying SC gear, even though they can't handle the uptime then.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    read the comments here.. see how people approach is to one another particularly in raids.. this is why I quit raids.
    people just cant enjoy playing in a team with a group of people respect one another.. you are playing with human. someone in real life you would say hi and smile.
    a lot of people are just so cruel in the game.. I don't know why.
    when raids first came out. we had a good friend who tank with warrior hammer it was funny and fun. we were patience with the team .. until later when drama broke out, the team disband. good game friends quit. pugging raids is fast to clear.. but people with no consideration of how the other feels .. it is a place where some people there to find target and then abuse and bully. tired of this already.. its time to retire this content.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    read the comments here.. see how people approach is to one another particularly in raids.. this is why I quit raids.
    people just cant enjoy playing in a team with a group of people respect one another.. you are playing with human. someone in real life you would say hi and smile.
    a lot of people are just so cruel in the game.. I don't know why.
    when raids first came out. we had a good friend who tank with warrior hammer it was funny and fun. we were patience with the team .. until later when drama broke out, the team disband. good game friends quit. pugging raids is fast to clear.. but people with no consideration of how the other feels .. it is a place where some people there to find target and then abuse and bully. tired of this already.. its time to retire this content.

    Find a more tollerant group of people to raid with mate.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    @Linken.6345 tried :) a lot of post LF people, I made team too. but often faster to pug. not the life style I am after in game. but not trying to stop anyone from playing. many prefer this gaming life style so by all means. me.. like many other long time raiders, retire :) unless someone invite, otherwise log in game.. see see look look.. change armor.. take screenshot.. say hello to some friends.. and go afk.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭

    2 words. Delusional eletists.

  • Kelieto.6375Kelieto.6375 Member ✭✭

    Lmao how can the full minstrel meta stop if full minstrel isn't even meta in the first place?

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