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WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.


Princ.3598

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@"nthmetal.9652" said:Generally I find the advice of "simply go roaming" and "don't join the squad" not very helpful. There are several strong downsides to not joining the squad, which are left totally out of this discussion:You can go roaming, but please be aware, that you will receive significantly smaller rewards. You kill a player character here and there, and take a camp every now and then, but compared to what people in the zerg make, you are actively being punished for not following the zerg. You can of course still have fun. You usually can't take bigger objectives: Towers tend to be better defended - or your zerg likely has already taken them.

You can also follow the zerg outside of the squad. Shocking, i know.

If you follow the zerg without joining the squad you will be missing out on important tactical information. Commanders set down location markers, indicting movements, or areas, where they want certain status effects, expect enemies to move to, etc. - if you're not in the squad, you will not see those, leaving you to guess what the commander wants, even if you're on TS.No, you wont if youre on ts/discord.

That you die easier, as boons will less likely be shared with you adds insult to injury.Why would you need boons as a nonblob class? Soulbeast (one example) has everything it needs to shine outside of a zerg. Deadeye will not ever need stab, cause it wont go into melee. Same is for mirage (why would it ever need to be in melee?)

Not joining the squad is usually a bad option. Being kicked from the squad effectively means, that the comm tells you not only to leave the squad, but generally be denoted to a less fun playing experience (YMMV); less fun means likely some players will leave. In the end the whole game mode suffers, as devs are looking at the numbers of players using certain game modes and direct resources to the game modes based on population. In the end, the same elitist players, who kick meta-classes are likely the same ones, who complain about their game mode not being given enough attention.You must be new. The commander isnt there for YOUR entertainment. He/she is there for results in fights. Being permafarmed cause "i wanna play however i want!" is a much, much less fun experience for 50 people, rather than one person whining "i got kicked from squad cause i play deadeye!".

So this whole elitist behavior and meta-classes thing IMO is detrimental to the game mode as a whole.

Even worse is the self-entitled opinion of "i belong everywhere"

I think the best playing experience comes from playing what you enjoy. As a comm and as a player you have certain "duties" when it comes to playing in a zerg.As a player, your duty should be:

  • listen to the commandsCan do that outside of a squad.

  • join TS / discord if being usedCan do that outside of a squad.

  • support your co-players in every game you can (taking into account the profession you play)Can do that outside of a squad.

  • down enemies, help take objectives, help build siege, help downed players, distract enemiesCan do that outside of a squad.

  • spy and bring in reportsCan do that outside of a squad.

You should also donate siege, as the comm mostly places siege.Can do that outside of a squad.

As a commander your duties should be:

  • decide which objective to tackle next
  • decide where to play siege and what to place
  • command push, bomb, give advice, dodge, twice, CC here, dodge, then turn, go for their tail, heals on me, casters to the left, etc.
  • share participation with spies. If you designate roaming squads, guards, share participation with these, too.

Generally more focus should be given to the overall game mode, not simply zerg vs zerg fights. If you tackle objectives, you're bound to face enemy zergs anyways. But in the end, THIS is the comms decision. If they want to lead a combat suqad and ignore objectives, so be it.

This is IMO overstepping your bounds as a comm:

  • dictate which classes to bringYes, the commander will dictate what he needs/what you should bring for the improvement of the squad.

  • dictate which specs to chooseYes, the commander SHOULD tell you which specs to choose, for winning fights (people have this strange tendency to want to win)

  • dictate which powers/weapons/utilities to bringYes, the commander will tell you which utilities to bring to maximize efficiency, as this isnt open world pve and the enemies will farm you at your spawn.

You can of course, ask a player, if they cannot rather being a different spec into the game, in a polite manner, but the answer given has to be accepted.The kick also has to be accepted, in a polite manner.

This is IMO overstepping your bounds as a player:

  • using mounts / attacks when comm is trying to get the zerg to go invisible
  • revealing location, when the comm has clearly given orders "I need two to go to that sentry, rest wait here"
  • ignoring commands generally

However, you can't blame players ignoring commands, if they're not allowed to join the squad. You kick them, you gotta live with them playing on their own. That is not an excuse for players to misbehave when kicked; a kick should be accepted not lead to drama, but comms can't expect kicked players to keep full attention.Commanders dont really care about kicked players.

The entitlement is really strong here. If you think things are THAT simple, tag up, accept everyone, play against organized blobs, get farmed, watch people leave cause they strangely enough dont like to become permanent lootbags. You ask for others to always include YOU into everything, cause you wont be bothered to get out of your comfort zone. Well, good luck with that. Both in-game, and everywhere else.

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You can also follow the zerg outside of the squad. Shocking, i know.

"Don't come anywhere near my squad" - that's what I heard, being said open, in map chat. Yes, you can of course do that, but clearly someone is telling you to stay away.A kick is possibly a lesser version of that.

No, you wont if youre on ts/discord.Ah, not even bothering to read what I posted. Maybe your comm isn't working with those colormarkers. Green arrow here, circle there. Not on TS? Try to figure out who's gonna move where, ohwhoops, you're in the middle of the enemy zerg. Fun times.

Why would you need boons as a nonblob class?I am pretty sure you are aware how boons work, and why they are beneficial. So I'll just let that speak for itself.

You must be new. The commander isnt there for YOUR entertainmentAgreed. See my post a bit above for the duties a player has IMO. See a bit lower about what I say about respect.This also goes both ways. And since this goes both ways, the player isn' t there for the entertainment of the comm. (I feel some players, like those talking about entitlement a lot - but this might be an unjustified generalization are not even in this game for their own entertainment. I honestly have no idea what drives those people being all supersalty, even insulting comms in PvE if some boss event fails.)

As to the overstepping bounds: I am trying to use common sense here. When someone in real life micromanages your life, you'll like not turn out to be happy. Same ingame. That has nothing to do with entitlement.Entitlement would be, if I would demand to be:

  • invited into every invite-only squad
  • expect antisocial behavior to be accepted (see my posts above for what I believe player duties to be. That is not antisocial)
  • gameplay centered around me
  • whining when dying "where is the healing, where is the stability"

All this is not the case. Being invited into a squad consisting of 20,30 or 50 people is clearly not gameplay centered around me, this has nothing to do with entitlement.If this would be entitlement, then the following would be trolling:

  • tagging up with an open squad, advertising, asking for ppl to join
  • then kicking people joining the open tag

Commanders dont really care about kicked players.If only that were true. I've seen pugs getting reprimanded and not in a very polite manner, when accidently (well. At least I will assume it was accidently, and not on purpose) ruining a veil or other form of invis, or revealing position on map prematurely. Commanders do care, and in these case rightfully so.

And finally:

Even worse is the self-entitled opinion of "i belong everywhere"

You clearly do not know me. You have no idea what I am like. The same is likely true about other players. There might be some around, for which what you say is true, but simply assuming that about players is ... well ... how should I put this politely? Let's just say this is wrong.For example, after trying out Raids for a bit, I know that I don't belong there. I know that I don't belong in sPvP. But WvW? It's fun.

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@"Aeolus.3615" said:Did anet removed the amout of unblocables from the class or its elite spec like 4sec on pet swapping ??As u know that will bypass everything besides dodges and invunerability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union - provides 4secs of unblockable when merging with your pet

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clarion_Bond - which casts Lesser Call of the Wild when you swap pets (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild) only gives unblockable to your pet, same as the normal Call of the Wild does. If a Soulbeast is merged with their pet when they use Warhorn though, then the Ranger's attacks become unblockable instead.

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@"nthmetal.9652" said:

I've also seen comms tag down, because players do not listen. I'd even say, that's the only possible reaction in that case: If the players are unwilling to fulfil their part of the "social contract" (as I see it, detailed above), you can't expect any comm in the world, to stay tagged.

wth is a social contract?

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@"nthmetal.9652" said:Social contract, in political philosophy, an actual or hypothetical compact, or agreement, between the ruled and their rulers, defining the rights and duties of each.https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

As you see, putting it in "" for good reason.

Wow that's great! i would love to be your sovereign! will you bring the proper armor, class, gameplay, and gravel at my feet before every raid? i've always wanted to live out my fantasy as king of ebg. i will gladly accept your fealty as long as you do as I wish. In exchange, I'll help you with your dailies.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Just a question: What if the commander says something like "With this combination of classes, I can't really do anything, so I'll just tag down and go do something else."

Then it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I've seen comms do that. No whining about that, just as some players cannot or are not willing to play everything, not every comm can deal with everything. There is no "right to a commander" in every map, there is no "right to demand a commander" from the player side.

I've also seen comms tag down, because players do not listen. I'd even say, that's the only possible reaction in that case: If the players are
unwilling
to fulfil their part of the "social contract" (as I see it, detailed above), you can't expect any comm in the world, to stay tagged.

So your argument is that a commander shouldn't kick non-desired classes/builds from their squad because those players then don't get the full experience/smaller rewards/etc. What is the difference then from the commander simply tagging down which you seem ok with? Absolutely nothing. They both have the same effect on the experience/rewards and I'd argue that not having a tag is even worse for experience/rewards than a tag that kicks some players!

There's no compelling reason you are giving for why a commander shouldn't kick players.

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What is the difference then from the commander simply tagging down which you seem ok with? Absolutely nothing. They both have the same effect on the experience/rewards and I'd argue that not having a tag is even worse for experience/rewards than a tag that kicks some players!

The comparison is a bit slanted to say the least. You're basically saying that being fired from a job (while actually doing what you can, see few posts above for what I believe player duties to be in this social context) is the same as a generally underperforming company shutting down.The first one feels like some kind of attack - some here have even phrased this openly: "You're a selfish ##### for playing this or that profession." (not a literal quote, but you get where I'm coming from, I'm sure.) - and I do not believe this to be true. We surely all have our faults, I mean nobody is perfect, but simply assuming one thing from the profession a person enjoys to play is wrong.

@"shiri.4257" saidWow that's great! i would love to be your sovereign!

Sounds like you critizize my approach of using "social contract" in this context, to which I can reply with a quote from this thread:

@aspirine.5839 saidIt's THEIR group so they make up the rules, no point on complaining. Just get a class that is wanted or go on defense/roaming/scouting.

The sovereign seems to reign supreme indeed :)

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I do not understand all this fuss about not being in a squad. If you want to be in a squad/zerg, use an appropriate character/build. If you do not want to use that build, either roam or hang near the zerg (or form a frickin party with other non-meta people like I do). Or, if you are so obsessed with playing your own build, and you think that you can do great in a zerg, just whisp the comm/guild member after the raid and show them what you got. If you do not know your class well, ask for help, people will help you (in my server we do).

If you do not want to do all these. Tag up, and have your own rules, own people. All is simple. But you cannot force others to change their rules, bend their ways according to your desires.

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I've played the game since release and have never been booted from any party except for being AFK or on the wrong map. I've also commanded on a scrapper pre med-kit and a druid was in my main party. I don't even have full minstrels or monk runes on my guardian. Nobody cares, maybe because we have like 3-4 firebrands that are full meta and are getting one pushed every fight. Honestly, if you're not this, most sane commanders aren't going to have a problem. It's when they can identify you as frequently dead, that they're not going to want you.

I really hate to break it to you folks, but if you're regularly being kicked, you're probably bad at this game. Considering the forums throughout all game modes consist of anecdotes of so called veteran people being incapable of the simplest of tasks (eg press dodge key or even gear up in exotics after years of play), it's most likely this is the case. I mean, it's wvw blobbing. Outside of open world, this is the easiest task, and most commanders just need warm bodies, but for some reason, you can't even meet this bar. It's very likely that you would get kicked on sight regarding anything in this game that actually requires effort. "Oh no, I'm missing out on some tactical information" when you probably couldn't even explain what that actually is.

It's okay, because most of the game does not require actual skill to get most of the stuff anyways, and also most of the population is bad too! All you need to do is be marginally less bad than everyone else, blob up, and you will go far.

I mean in the end, nobody cares. You don't even know why you want to be in the squad; it's just that not being in it irks you. That's not a reason.

Oh btw, maybe try getting to know the commanders? Once you get to know them a bit, maybe slip in the question that you do want to run on your special snowflake build and hey, maybe they'll let you meme. Promise to switch if things go south. Yea, talk to people about it..... this a'int a single player game. You have to face reality sometimes. I was running burn guard, and I would flat out tell everyone I was doing that but with the advance of the condi clear scrapper, it is completely useless in zergs now with a clue. So I had to give up on it; life sucks, but ignoring reality is even worse.

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@"nthmetal.9652" said:

What is the difference then from the commander simply tagging down which you seem ok with? Absolutely nothing. They both have the same effect on the experience/rewards and I'd argue that not having a tag is even worse for experience/rewards than a tag that kicks some players!

The comparison is a bit slanted to say the least. You're basically saying that being fired from a job (while actually doing what you can, see few posts above for what I believe player duties to be in this social context) is the same as a generally underperforming company shutting down.The first one feels like some kind of attack - some here have even phrased this openly: "You're a selfish ##### for playing this or that profession." (not a literal quote, but you get where I'm coming from, I'm sure.) - and I do not believe this to be true. We surely all have our faults, I mean nobody is perfect, but simply assuming one thing from the profession a person enjoys to play is wrong.

The comparison is accurate. Your job analogy makes it even more accurate. People get fired from jobs usually because of being bad for the role. An underperforming company shutting down is the result of too many people being bad at their roles and company management not dealing with their people resource issue too well. The only difference with the analogy is that a server is full of people you didn't hire. Still, no compelling reason given by you for why someone leading a squad shouldn't kick people who are doing bad at the role they are needed for/not showing up for work with the right skills. Commanders who want to be competitive in fights against other squads should absolutely be managing the composition of their squads.

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@"Chaba.5410" said:The comparison is accurate. Your job analogy makes it even more accurate. People get fired from jobs usually because of being bad for the role. An underperforming company shutting down is the result of too many people being bad at their roles and company management not dealing with their people resource issue too well. The only difference with the analogy is that a server is full of people you didn't hire. Still, no compelling reason given by you for why someone leading a squad shouldn't kick people who are doing bad at the role they are needed for/not showing up for work with the right skills. Commanders who want to be competitive in fights against other squads should absolutely be managing the composition of their squads.

You could even say that forming up on and comping a squad is the hiring process. ;)The commander will "employ" the people most qualified for the task. If your strengths (class) lie in another field, you'd have better luck elsewhere.

With that said.. If k-training, class/build won't matter 90% of the time -- it's braindead, you don't even need a squad. If comped for RvR, tailored (meta) class/build is paramount. As a roamer of 6 years who only really just got into large-scale, I play whatever is required of me, when it's appropriate. If you're set on playing one class/build, and aren't flexible, that choice is what is confining you to one area, and you shouldn't expect people to accommodate you based on a whim.When that's all said and done, you still have the choice to play how you want; outside of the squad. If solo play really isn't your thing and you're playing a "roaming" class/build, either form your own squad, or better yet, join one of the many roaming/havoc/zerg-busting guilds out there. Or join a casual PvX guild that doesn't care what you bring. Roaming solo or with friends/PUGs is also a thing.

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@"ArchonWing.9480" said:I've played the game since release and have never been booted from any party except for being AFK or on the wrong map. I've also commanded on a scrapper pre med-kit and a druid was in my main party. I don't even have full minstrels or monk runes on my guardian. Nobody cares, maybe because we have like 3-4 firebrands that are full meta and are getting one pushed every fight. Honestly, if you're not this, most sane commanders aren't going to have a problem. It's when they can identify you as frequently dead, that they're not going to want you.

I really hate to break it to you folks, but if you're regularly being kicked, you're probably bad at this game. Considering the forums throughout all game modes consist of anecdotes of so called veteran people being incapable of the simplest of tasks (eg press dodge key or even gear up in exotics after years of play), it's most likely this is the case. I mean, it's wvw blobbing. Outside of open world, this is the easiest task, and most commanders just need warm bodies, but for some reason, you can't even meet this bar. It's very likely that you would get kicked on sight regarding anything in this game that actually requires effort. "Oh no, I'm missing out on some tactical information" when you probably couldn't even explain what that actually is.

It's okay, because most of the game does not require actual skill to get most of the stuff anyways, and also most of the population is bad too! All you need to do is be marginally less bad than everyone else, blob up, and you will go far.

I mean in the end, nobody cares. You don't even know why you want to be in the squad; it's just that not being in it irks you. That's not a reason.

Oh btw, maybe try getting to know the commanders? Once you get to know them a bit, maybe slip in the question that you do want to run on your special snowflake build and hey, maybe they'll let you meme. Promise to switch if things go south. Yea, talk to people about it..... this a'int a single player game. You have to face reality sometimes. I was running burn guard, and I would flat out tell everyone I was doing that but with the advance of the condi clear scrapper, it is completely useless in zergs now with a clue. So I had to give up on it; life sucks, but ignoring reality is even worse.

Seconded

I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:Seconded

I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

This game needs more commanders like you, Risen. If only more were this open minded.

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@"RisenHowl.2419" said:On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

Single target pick builds probably won't register as particularly high in any of those categories, but they do serve a niche contributive role. No replacement for a meta guard, necro, scrapper etc. -- but should otherwise fall into your loose criteria of not being detrimental.

Also, while I generally run straight dps on my necro, I have saved a lot more people on my transfusion build, sometimes leading to swinging the fight in my team's favor.Its just the fuckups that are more memorable and visible-- with everyone being clumped up, and some of those "fuckups" were caused by unwanted delayed teleporting. That teleport AI is about as unreliable as Ranger's SnR.

~ Kovu

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Classes like thieves and rangers don't need to be a part of the squad. There is very little they can add that other classes can't. Both care capable of killing someone fairly quickly which is ideal for stragglers. Perhaps those that are running thieves and rangers can be given squad participation? They do help, especially rangers, they can make the lives miserable of scourges and revs.

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Depends on the commander but in most cases, they're nice and fun people. I remember doing a decent dps with a reaper in a squad for few hours already, we were attacking a gate and a commander said that whoever does the most dmg to gate with skills gets 10g and I of course won being only reaper in squad, and then the commander said who the hell invited reaper into the squad and kicked me. It was funny as hell. FSP commanders are the funny guys.

But on topic, even though I sometimes got kicked even when playing meta classes, I would still follow the squad and have good fun.

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@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:I've played the game since release and have never been booted from any party except for being AFK or on the wrong map. I've also commanded on a scrapper pre med-kit and a druid was in my main party. I don't even have full minstrels or monk runes on my guardian. Nobody cares, maybe because we have like 3-4 firebrands that are full meta and are getting one pushed every fight. Honestly, if you're not this, most sane commanders aren't going to have a problem. It's when they can identify you as frequently dead, that they're not going to want you.

I really hate to break it to you folks, but if you're regularly being kicked, you're probably bad at this game. Considering the forums throughout all game modes consist of anecdotes of so called veteran people being incapable of the simplest of tasks (eg press dodge key or even gear up in exotics after years of play), it's most likely this is the case. I mean, it's wvw blobbing. Outside of open world, this is the easiest task, and most commanders just need warm bodies, but for some reason, you can't even meet this bar. It's very likely that you would get kicked on sight regarding anything in this game that actually requires effort. "Oh no, I'm missing out on some tactical information" when you probably couldn't even explain what that actually is.

It's okay, because most of the game does not require actual skill to get most of the stuff anyways, and also most of the population is bad too! All you need to do is be marginally less bad than everyone else, blob up, and you will go far.

I mean in the end, nobody cares. You don't even know why you want to be in the squad; it's just that not being in it irks you. That's not a reason.

Oh btw, maybe try getting to know the commanders? Once you get to know them a bit, maybe slip in the question that you do want to run on your special snowflake build and hey, maybe they'll let you meme. Promise to switch if things go south. Yea, talk to people about it..... this a'int a single player game. You have to face reality sometimes. I was running burn guard, and I would flat out tell everyone I was doing that but with the advance of the condi clear scrapper, it is completely useless in zergs now with a clue. So I had to give up on it; life sucks, but ignoring reality is even worse.

Seconded

I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

Well, communication is important. If you didn't tell me burn doesn't convert to Aegis, I wouldn't know why it's a bad idea to run burn in zergs. And I had to also understand why Aegis is important. I convinced my friend that longbow doesn't work just by having a people spam their reflects out and it was a lot. So it's easy to see. Actually fighting often gives bad feedback because of uneven fights so people may think they're doing something because they are winning or they think they are not because they are losing when they are other factors. For example, your dps will be bad if your guardians don't provide defensive boons so that they can dps away.

But people don't want to explain under the guise of "I've done it 50 times already!", which means absolutely nothing to people that are new. And of course there are veterans that expect people to know everything from the start when they don't themselves.

Recently, we've been blasting stealth and people were getting pissed that light fields or w/e were being dropped. So I just explained in chat that one should either blast on group, or don't do kitten; and that magically worked. Much better than screaming at people I think. Of course, it's easy to be frustrated and I do get pissed when non-pugs are acting dumb, but it's still important to keep that be a minimum. Nobody likes that moron in pvp that spends half their match berating teammates (and are probably dragging the team down), so same applies here.

Btw, don't tell me what to do! I will use rams on guards instead of doors cuz that's the way I want to play. Anyone that tells me otherwise is toXIc! ;)

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are minion manceers and core mesmers welcome in fractals? no

this may surprise you, but just like pve has an unwritten ruleset and meta..the wvw community over the years have also formed one.

somrthings just work better then others, now go and play your soulbeast in a roaming/havoc/scouting role

tell the squad you are a scout, and you will get an invite, and keep getting invites if u do your job properly. u get shared particaption, and you get appreciated

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@melandru.3876 said:tell the squad you are a scout, and you will get an invite, and keep getting invites if u do your job properly. u get shared particaption, and you get appreciatedI havent seen a commander do shared participation for like a year.

daily

when u hop borders and some of ure squad is in q..shared partipationwhen u hop borders and u need eyes on another border, shared particpation + gold

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@Princ.3598 said:

The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

Thoughts?

Yeah theres the problem that buffs/Blasting in healing waters(aoe heal) priotorize your partymembers first , rather than randoms .

Maybe joing the commander icon , by default the system puts you into a subgroup , where if its different classes (comander can rearange it) every1 get sme extra buffs like protection + swiftness .While the Commander can organise and put his guildmembers or player he thing he can win the teamfights in the ''main group'' ?

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Due to the game design any sort of balanced class viability is a pipe dream, that is something Anet will never be able to get right. Unfortunately this invokes the creation of the so called Meta builds, not just in WvW but in any co-op game type like PvP, Raids, Fractals...

What "commanders" in WvW do not get is that people cherish their freedom and the right to choose whatever they want to play and no ammount of bullying into Meta build will change that.

The shining example of that approach's downfall is Vabbi. Vabbi comms have been warned by players during the last 1.5 years that "exclusivity" won't work and will backfire sooner or later. I won't name any names but few commanders over there were so thickheaded they could not see it coming if it hit them full frontal...and here we are Vabbi is almost dead WvW wise, players just can't stand playing under those terms and with those kind of people. The sooner the elitists get this the sonner will WvW get better.

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