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[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW.


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@Trevor Boyer.6524 saidSeems like people are forgetting that before Soulbeast showed up, allowing Sic Em to work on the Ranger during merge, LB/GS setups were in no way viable whatsoever, and were widely considered to be as weak as Renegade is now.

^ Consider this

what I consider the issue to be with rangers, is that the ranger's actual damage is subpar, and a good deal of total damage potential comes from the pet. That, and traits that grant the pet absurd boosts. Add on top soulbeast merge, and suddenly the ranger itself becomes overpowered when effects meant for a mediocre companion affect now a competent player.

The current damage modifiers would never had been so high if ANet had foreseen the design of soulbeast.

Because of this I'd say ranger is the class with the highest need of a rework. increase ranger weapon damage, increase pet stats/attack speed (and allow them to reliably stick to moving targets), and lower trait/skill damage modifiers to be on par with other classes.

may not be enough for balance, but would be a good start.

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@bigo.9037 said:

@bigo.9037 said:you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea
the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes
. Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them
weakness
because it does not fit with the game itself.
This game is not WoW
with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

@"jcbroe.4329" said:These threads are just so exhausting now.

Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.So are the Mirages spamming target drops.So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

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@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@bigo.9037 said:you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea
the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes
. Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them
weakness
because it does not fit with the game itself.
This game is not WoW
with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

@"jcbroe.4329" said:These threads are just so exhausting now.

Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.So are the Mirages spamming target drops.So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

Exactly man. 1+. Like I said before, sicem isn't a skill all ranger builds NEED. It's just 1 of many viable tools. Soulbeast is lucky it has at least 1 utility slot where you can pick about 4 different things and make it work. One of those 4 being sicem.

As much fun as I've had this weekend 1hitting ppl after slotting in sicem, it's just not healthy for the game overall. It's a bad and toxic gimmick. I mean it even happened to me once! I laughed it off, but if I got 1hit by RF every time I saw a ranger, not being able to use stealth, not being able to use blocks.. I'd be pretty pissed off.The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

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@bigo.9037 said:

@bigo.9037 said:you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea
the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes
. Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them
weakness
because it does not fit with the game itself.
This game is not WoW
with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

I really don't get why some people keep getting this wrong. That wrong 25% number has been floating around for too long. It's so easy to test that it's 40% in WvW. Walk up to NPC. Hit LB2, hit sic'em half way through. Factor in vulnerability and it's easy to tell sic'em is a 40% buff on the following hits from lb 2.

I would total be fine with a PvE split with WvW/PvP where sic'em is only 25% in PvP/WvW. Maybe split the duration and CD to both be shorter. I'm thinking of the endure pain PvP split. 2 second 30 sec CD in PvP vs 4 second 60 second CD in WvW.

@"jcbroe.4329" said:These threads are just so exhausting now.

Look, I get it, being "pew pew'd" is annoying.So are the Firebrand boon and support spam overlords.So are the Scourge massive spam of AoEs; that when stacked create a sea of cancer.So is the Spellbreaker Rampage faceroll dodge perfectly or die fights with extra sustain to boot.So is the Chrono phantasm/clone visual cancer.So are the Mirages spamming target drops.So are the Heralds rolling their face into offhand sword and oneshotting you.So are the Scrappers forehead smashing their keyboard and winning.So is the pressure/CC and visual spam of Holos.Even Weaver is obnoxiously overtuned but it's hard to complain about with everything else on the list.

Let's face it, PvP and WvW have been hot garbage since PoF. Powercreep was already massive in HoT and in need of further culling before PoF was tossed on top of it.

So I get the complaints, I really do. I can't say I'm inclined to disagree.But seriously, going after individual classes is just whack-a-mole'ing the cancer of this game away one biased complaint at a time.

Personally, I see it as less going after individual classes and more looking at your own class and deciding what is a reasonable nerf instead of what breaks the fun/play style of the class. Ideally everyone is able to do that for their own class. This makes it less whack a mole and more reduced power creep across all classes. Reducing sic'em to 25-20% in WvW/PvP wouldn't change the overall class or how fun it is for me to play.

Exactly man. 1+. Like I said before, sicem isn't a skill all ranger builds NEED. It's just 1 of many viable tools. Soulbeast is lucky it has at least 1 utility slot where you can pick about 4 different things and make it work. One of those 4 being sicem.

As much fun as I've had this weekend 1hitting ppl after slotting in sicem, it's just not healthy for the game overall. It's a bad and toxic gimmick. I mean it even happened to me once! I laughed it off, but if I got 1hit by RF every time I saw a ranger, not being able to use stealth, not being able to use blocks.. I'd be pretty pissed off.The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

I obviously don't disagree with nerfing it. I said as much in my original post you both quoted (this'll tag Duck, responding to him too).

It wasn't for the people who are having an objective discussion, it was for the people who have a long posting history of making outrageous power claims about ranger and suggest outrageous nerfs or bandwagon on any nerf thread that gains traction because they have a biased dislike for the class.

This isn't really a thread or forum that they can be called out in either without repercussions, but you'll recognize them if you jump into any ranger targeted balance discussion that's calling for nerfs.

Just as it's important to identify the objective and valuable contributions and discussions, it's equally important to identify the people or contributions that troll or skew the discussion.

Me personally? I don't prefer the Sic Em build, although I acknowledge it's power. It's a strong utility skill that's too one dimensional and sacrifices a slot where defensive utilities are much stronger on Ranger in those slots. If I could keep the 3 slots and slot Sic Em on the elite, than yeah I'd run it, otherwise it gets crowded off my bar for other skills.

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I've been playing alot of cheddar cheese beast in wvw to counter other cheese beasts lately and have some thoughts

1)Ain't gunna lie it's fun as hell even if the rotation and skill is boring. You can finally be useful in picking out targets like an actual bowman. And I've had a crazy amount of fun of supprising enemies by running in like a Highlander and cleaving everything. Im pretty torn on nerfs one hand it's OP and sucks to be on the receiving end, especially if you don't have your anti ranger; On the other wow it's great to finally pick of targets especially since melee is super dangerous in wvw.

2) unstoppable union for 4 seconds is pretty OP, I personally think it should only be 1 or next weapon damage packet in wvw only so you have to actually have to think hmm do I cc or stealth ect. If you get CCd during this time well you lost your chance, it gives counterplay when people see a merge occur.

3) I know, I know, but I think a good Nerf would be that sic em only worked on melee in wvw only. You can still do really good range damage especially with one wolf, but the melee with sic em actually gives ranger some great cleave. Make it high risk high reward

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@Eleazar.9478 said:

I've been playing alot of cheddar cheese beast in wvw to counter other cheese beasts lately and have some thoughts

1)Ain't gunna lie it's fun as hell even if the rotation and skill is boring. You can finally be useful in picking out targets like an actual bowman. And I've had a crazy amount of fun of supprising enemies by running in like a Highlander and cleaving everything. Im pretty torn on nerfs one hand it's OP and sucks to be on the receiving end, especially if you don't have your anti ranger; On the other wow it's great to finally pick of targets especially since melee is super dangerous in wvw.

2) unstoppable union for 4 seconds is pretty OP, I personally think it should only be 1 or next weapon damage packet in wvw only so you have to actually have to think hmm do I cc or stealth ect. If you get CCd during this time well you lost your chance, it gives counterplay when people see a merge occur.

3) I know, I know, but I think a good Nerf would be that sic em only worked on melee in wvw only. You can still do really good range damage especially with one wolf, but the melee with sic em actually gives ranger some great cleave. Make it high risk high reward

Overall agree yea. However, ranger has multiple hard hitting melee skills that you can use in stealth. Even if sicem was only melee, and honestly I already tend to only use it in melee already, it's still too much dmg. Enemies have to spend 2 dodges cus they can't block both maul and WI.

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I can go full dps and have people face tank my damage in pvp without sic em. That's completely ridiculous. Sic em means that for 10s on one target I can actually do enough dmg they have to react. All of my dmg can be mitigated by line of sighting, or even body blocking.

There are sooo many ways to counter sic em. I get that it's annoying but without it I think we'd have a lot less build diversity in PvP and would be forced into roles we are even more subpar at.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:I can go full dps and have people face tank my damage in pvp without sic em. That's completely ridiculous. Sic em means that for 10s on one target I can actually do enough dmg they have to react. All of my dmg can be mitigated by line of sighting, or even body blocking.

There are sooo many ways to counter sic em. I get that it's annoying but without it I think we'd have a lot less build diversity in PvP and would be forced into roles we are even more subpar at.

See in pvp its totally fine for a few reasons1) The amount of area and terrain, allows for the target to break line of site easier and counter

2) A scholar zerk soulbeast merged with power pet in PVP can only reach 2.7k power, with 250% ferocity and only 55% crit chance While a wvw Ranger with dps loadout can reach 3.1kish 255% ferocity and 65% crit chance (with cheap power food and that's not even with blood lust stacks or full infusions or major bloodlust or tower buffs. My rapid fires go from 15k damage to 32k damage on glass targets lol thats players health pools twice over! and for 10 seconds! Unblockable! for 4 of em! thats pretty nutty

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@bigo.9037 said:

Overall agree yea. However, ranger has multiple hard hitting melee skills that you can use in stealth. Even if sicem was only melee, and honestly I already tend to only use it in melee already, it's still too much dmg. Enemies have to spend 2 dodges cus they can't block both maul and WI.

See if they nerfed the unblockable duration, they wouldn't, also being melee skills you can also position out of range,Personally, I'm all for melee big numbers (zerk necro, and dh can get 20-30k bursts easy with proper rotations with way less tells), as melee is already too dangerous due to necros, warriors, and guards. If you cant burst hard in melee your gunna get run over. although I would be all for WI to hit wider 360 but with less damage (make it real cleave) and would want them to cement soul beast as an-your-face frontliner

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Personally, I've never had any problems playing against this build ranger with most professions, before wvw warclaw was implemented with necro I had problems, now no more.The fact that sickem within the build for someone may be an option and for others an obligation does not justify a nerf. The build has weaknesses, has counters and does not allow rangers to do things that other classes cannot do. It looks like another post made by people asking for nerf for something they don't like to play against.

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Most ranger players in WvW are absolutely terrible and have no clue about how to properly build and play the class. Being able to kill players like this is hardly meaningful.Sic'Em provides ridiculous burst for builds that also have access to unblockable, reveal, huge range, high mobility, evades, block, stealth, blind, cc, stab, prot + additional dmg reduction, decent healing, condi clear, ... So what weakness is there?Yes, other classes have some broken stuff too, which should get adressed obviously. I can also see how Sic'Em might not be as bad in sPvP. But there is nothing that justifies it in it's current state in WvW and if the powercreep gets toned down eventually, it should be one of the first things to target.

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@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:Most ranger players in WvW are absolutely terrible and have no clue about how to properly build and play the class. Being able to kill players like this is hardly meaningful.Sic'Em provides ridiculous burst for builds that also have access to unblockable, reveal, huge range, high mobility, evades, block, stealth, blind, cc, stab, prot + additional dmg reduction, decent healing, condi clear, ... So what weakness is there?Yes, other classes have some broken stuff too, which should get adressed obviously. I can also see how Sic'Em might not be as bad in sPvP. But there is nothing that justifies it in it's current state in WvW and if the powercreep gets toned down eventually, it should be one of the first things to target.

Part of the damage multipliers that the ranger uses to obtain large bursts are present in MM and not in WS, this means that the build does not have conditions clean.If you use MM instead of WS you have damage and 0 sustain. If you use WS instead, you have sustain and clean condition but less damage, potentially it can have everything but not in the same build.However, every build has to evade, great damage, blockages and not to forget my favorite https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwarkand with the implementation of Warclaw in game it is no longer possible to kill unprepared people as the mount allows you to conquer targets, from an additional 10k hp and 3 dodges to force the ranger to fight melee range.it's an annoying build because you have to pay attention to it, but defining it as OP is exaggerated.

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BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

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@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

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@bigo.9037 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

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@bigo.9037 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

Now now rev still has a skill that hits from 1200 range, is not a projectile, has better power scaling, and better base damage than worldly impact or mail.

Plus a good rev can cover 1500 range easy running staff/sword hearld, shiro. and can chain dogdes/blocks nearly the whole time especially if they're running speed runes.

So here's this if ranger gets Nerfed so should hammer Rev

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@bigo.9037 said:

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

This has nothing to do with it, every class has different mechanics, the ranger remains an archer and it is right that it has a greater range, compared to other classes, that thief has easy access to invisibility etc.

Currently what makes WvW unbalanced in my opinion is not the presence of skills as sickem, the professions can increase the stacks of might too easily and the presence of some foods that reinforce these situations, I look forward to this update and I hope the situation is resolved without destroying specificationshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

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@Eleazar.9478 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I would be curious to know how MM / BM / SBL builds can remove conditions, I checked the traits and found nothing apart from second skins or using Healing Spring

It was just to say that before the rangers had the opportunity to move and eliminate bad players by catching them unprepared because someone likes to sleep in wvw, now this is no longer possible. xD

I have been able to 1 hit necros while running WS while using sicem. Or rather, scourges.

And revenants.. and holos :)

The worst part is you can perfectly time both your pet swap for quickness.. merge to beastmode for unblockable..Pop sicem.. and if you don't have stability you're basically dead in the blink of an eye unless you have lots of armor and protection.

A Power Herald in its rotation has the necessary to eliminate a ranger with simplicity, using Infuse Light is able to completely absorb the damage of the ranger at that point it will be enough to use Phase Traversal and the ranger will die. Or look at the numbers a rev is able to do with CoR without anything with a 4 second CD, and maybe you will realize that there is no such difference of damage but only bad players and good players.

But ranger can do it from 1500 range away. Rev has to jump into melee where he is also vulnerable.

Now now rev still has a skill that hits from 1200 range, is not a projectile, has better power scaling, and better base damage than worldly impact or mail.

Plus a good rev can cover 1500 range easy running staff/sword hearld, shiro. and can chain dogdes/blocks nearly the whole time especially if they're running speed runes.

So here's this if ranger gets Nerfed so should hammer Rev

I agree! Both should!! Not just individual classes but the TTK on zerker builds should go up a bit while sustain builds TTK should go down so they aren't invincible..

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Fury duration is irrelevant for Remorseless, application is what matters for this trait. And yes, ranger does have a fair amount of Fury sources, which makes this trait strong in certain builds. However, taking MM usually comes with a considerable trade-off and is not optimal for most builds, and nerfs would make the traitline not worth taking at all in the current state of the game.

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