So, do you think Aurene will return in Episode 6: War Eternal?

[Erasculio.2914]

Aurene is gone, for now. But, considering all the teasers we have been shown, like the trailer and the new mount, do you think she will return to life in Episode 6?

Notice that the question is not about whether you would like her to return, rather what you think will happen.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

[phs.6089]

Don't think so, not the next if she is coming back, that will be too soon.

[Bast.7253]

I'm hopeful that she comes back and takes Kralk's place, and it concludes the story with her. She fulfills her destiny and lives in peace in her own little part of the world that gets phased and we can visit her after she's ascended. If for no better reason than to have a happy ending that brings closure to our journey with her all these years. There's plenty of room to tie in future plot threads, and having something that doesn't immediately jumpstart us into another completely linear bordering on melodrama character death after character death plotline would be a nice change of pace, and might allow us dive deeper into completely new aspects of the lore that haven't had any room to be brought in due to how everything's been going since Path of Fire launched.

But given the title of the episode, I think most people are leaning towards her being resurrected but "War Eternal" being more that she is possibly perpetually at war with Kralk? Not really sure. I find it interesting that this ties in with episode 4's vision. She dies over and over and over again in the visions, but what if that's what actually happens? What if her entire existence isn't to replace Kralk but act as an immortal jailor thanks to Joko and she just keeps him at bay. That's depressing, and not what I want to see happen, but it's something I could see happening given the foreshadowing we've seen.

I'm not really sure what the point of her being in the mists would be if she were resurrected and did take over Kralk. Because, theoretically, she would also absorb the ability to go in and out of the mists. So it seems unlikely that she's going to take his place. And I'm not sure what the point of her needing to be in the mists is in order to fulfill her destiny.

Who knows. The introduction of the skyscale leaves me wondering if, 1.) They're introducing her and decided to make a new mount based off of the tech they had to use for our fight with Aurene. 2.) If we discover some other McGuffin dragon that is able to do the same thing, that for some reason we didn't know about until this episode.

I think she's coming back though. I suppose there's always the possibility that they decide to introduce Shiny and it ties in with the discovery of this new dragon mount, but I think any speculation at this point is kind of pointless. Between dragon mounts being added, the god teasers awhile back on twitter, and the little foreshadowing hints in the previous episode it feels like they wanted to create as much doubt or as many red herrings as possible in terms of speculation for the episode. Even an educated guess at this point doesn't hold much weight, imo. The only real lead we have at this point is the title, "War Eternal" which is pretty vague. And most of the titles make significantly more sense in retrospect anyway.

[Randulf.7614]

I personally hope not. Her death was good for the story given the damage to the narrative her involvement has caused imo. Itll also have nothing to do with Joko since that makes no sense give. She has shown not to have absorbed his powers.

However, the ascendion thing is clearly a turning point, so unfortunately she will return in some form

[De Bourgogne.9642]

Be gone boring dragon

[Zaraki.5784]

I don't think anything because none of us can be certain, but I hope for it.

[Loesh.4697]

If Aurene comes back this soon, or even comes back at all, I feel like it'd cheapen the whole narrative.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

She'll be back because their writers are not that imaginative and they have written themselves into a corner without dues ex Taimi and deus ex Glint Prophecy.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Given some of the recent talks Anet did about character deaths and how they handle them in the story, it seems the PC was a big exception to their general rule. Aurene might possibly fall into that rare exception catagory, but it's also just as likely she's truly died.

If that was part of the plan when she underwent ascension prior for the purpose of perhaps trapping Kralkatorrik in the Mists with her or what, I don't know. At that point couldn't Glint do it herself since she's in there?

Since Kralkatorrik likes mist walking so much now perhaps Glint, Vlast, and Aurene triple team him? lolI honestly have no idea where we're going or what Aurene's final fate is.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

TBH, I'm not really sure.

I don't expect a full resurrection without penalties, whether or not she comes back. If she does, it won't be to die again though (so that option is out IMO), but there will be some sort of drawback to marginalize the inconsequentiality of death. And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth. I do however, feel that the death was a "necessity for the plan" that the Commander wasn't told about, and we'll learn this as part of the climax for Episode 6.

Whether that necessity comes back to be Aurene is resurrected or not is unclear.

I imagine most of the plot for War Eternal will be focused on trying to find a way to deal with Kralkatorrik since Aurene died. There are three paths that could take:

1. Find a way to resurrect Aurene, under the mentality of "the Commander managed it once, so maybe a similar method will be able to bring Aurene back." This will result in a resurrected but altered Aurene that becomes an Elder Dragon and, as an epilogue, perhaps goes into hibernation (perhaps as part of that punishment).
2. Find a different replacement for Kralkatorrik. It seems highly unlikely that Glint was the ONLY plan that the Forgotten made for replacing Elder Dragons, given that four are needed. Though I suspect the Pale Tree('s cave of seeds) was the primary alternative plan, it's probable imo that the Skyscale was part of it as well, and we'll find some new dragon capable of becoming an Elder Dragon. If this is the case, Aurene won't be returning. IMO, this would be the worst path to take, to suddenly bring in a solution out of nowhere (aka a dues ex machina). Because it's also the worst possible route to take, it's also the most likely IMO given track records and how ArenaNet was so distracted during most of Ep6's development with those "unannounced projects."
3. Rather than a replacement, we focus on finding a way to end the Kralkatorrik threat without outright killing him. Since just putting him to sleep won't be sufficient to most Tyrians (and players), putting him into a highly punishing loop he cannot escape may end up becoming the solution. Similar to Abaddon's 1,000 years of perpetual torment imprisonment. While it wouldn't "fix" the imbalance, this would "prevent it from getting worse" which falls in line with ArenaNet's long lines of "winning but not really winning" plots. This, of course, means no resurrected Aurene (in Season 4).

[perilisk.1874]

Either a full resurrection, or apotheosis to become the new War god. She'll definitely be back, either way.

[Sir Alric.5078]

Yes, i expect she will come back because she has been the most important character in the game ever since we first heard about the existence of Glint's egg back in 2014. That is, five years ago. And after that we have been told again and again that Aurene is our only hope to save the world from the threat of the Elder Dragons (since it has been made very clear that we cannot simply kill them). So if she stays dead that would not only invalidate almost everything the Commander has done in the past five years, but also leaves us with no idea on how to save the world. Unless of course super Taimi suddenly creates an "Elder Dragon energy replacement machine" or something out of the blue, but that would be a horrible writing imo.

[Fenom.9457]

I think she’ll return later, and if anything in this episode, she’ll be a ghost/spirit we only see in the mists

[Windu The Forbidden One.60]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:TBH, I'm not really sure.

And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

[Bast.7253]

@"Windu The Forbidden One.6045" said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:TBH, I'm not really sure.

And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

The argument to this is that Joko doesn’t technically die, he just persists indefinitely. But we don’t know how he became a lich and it would seem that he died at least once before his reign but who knows. The other argument being that there’s nothing to show that he’s a god or a dragon so this aspect of his magic wouldn’t be absorbed by Aurene. Time will tell though.

[Bast.7253]

And on that previous note, if the next map is in scavengers causeway it could be interesting if they find a way to tie in a death branded Aurene that we have to free like we did glint. But that’s a lot of ifs.

[castlemanic.3198]

I don't think that she'll be resurrected because of Joko's magic, but I DO think that she will come back for several reasons

1. they've hyped up something about ascension, a conversation that, as the commander, we were not privy to
2. aurene branding caithe means that there's SOMETHING going to be happening in relation to that event, and it doesn't really make sense story arc wise for caithe to have this massive transformation that, ultimately, is cut off by th end of the episode that it's introduced.
3. aurene knew she was going to die, something that the commander and everyone else had done everything they could to prevent. and from episode 4 it was obvious she was afraid of that very event, but she returned and fought the battle anyway. seems something convinced her that it was necessary.
4. glint has been very active in the mists, teaching rytlock how to connect to it, rallying the ghostly armies to fight off the branded, opening a portal back to tyria at the end of episode 4 for us, and asked eir to prod aurene to be ready for the fight (which made aurene turn to her prophetic abilities to see the outcome)

so I do believe that aurene will return, but i can offer counterpoints to everything i've suggested too.

1. while they did hype up something about ascension, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a full resurrection, glint wasn't resurrected. this angle probably means some sort of spiritual incarnation, one that's allowed to take more direct action or retain more of their power once they've passed on into the mists, fully embodying the jedi force ghost stuff.
2. caithe finally finding a purpose, a direction, a true connection that she's had difficulty with from early on in her life (especially since she held the secret that the sylvari are the minions of mordremoth, that's BOUND to alienate you subconsciously from everyone to prevent that info from accidentally slipping). and wouldn't it be a huge tragedy to finally have a connection, a bond that is unconditional, and have that ripped away. my 'most likely' guess is that in the mists, caithe's connection to aurene will guide us in the mists to aurene (and potentially glint) and lead us to this mysterious dragon homeland where the skyscales are. Caithe will have a bit more time to hold on to that bond before ultimately letting it go, knowing that this was only temporary, and that caithe will have to work extra hard to regain the trust of dragon's watch and the remainder of destiny's edge.
3. facing your fear is an arc that's been used across a ton of media, so aurene preparing for her end and accepting it is a possible alternative path, regardless of whether ascension means resurrection, retaining power in the mists, or something else entirely.
4. Apart from opening a portal out of the mists at the end of episode 4, it doesn't seem like glint has really done anything out of the extraordinary for a spirit in the mists, the place where we know all spirits pass on to when they die. even teaching rytlock how to become a revenant seems more like someone who's lived a while in the mists teaching someone all they know about the mists. the portal thing is something different though, she didn't absorb balthazar's power and she's been able to create portals to and from her lair. that's the only part where it really seems like glint has retained something in the afterlife, but eir and snaff seemingly retained their abilities when fighting in the mists too, so i don't really know what's going on there.

overall, i think 'sorta' is the most realistic option, but i hold out hope that full resurrection is on the table (and again, no, not because of the joko magic, it's the ascension thing that tickles my brain about resurrection).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Windu The Forbidden One.6045" said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:TBH, I'm not really sure.

And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

Per Taimi in Season 3, all Tyrian magic is ultimately the same as the Elder Dragon's domains. Whether we can trust her or the half-dozen individuals who said otherwise before Taimi, hard to say.

Ultimately, though, Joko's immortality is simply a spell, and Elder Dragons who gain access to new domains do not copy spells, they use that domain in brand new ways that benefit themselves. On top of that, Elder Dragons who gain access to new domains do so through the deaths of (former) gods and Elder Dragons, and Joko was neither. Though liches are rare, they're far from unique.

And ojn the premise that she did get that immortality, Joko never actually died, and got back up within seconds, while Aurene's been dead for... hours? Days? Weeks? Hard to say, but a significant amount of time by the sound of the Requiem short stories.

@"castlemanic.3198" said:

1. they've hyped up something about ascension, a conversation that, as the commander, we were not privy to
2. aurene branding caithe means that there's SOMETHING going to be happening in relation to that event, and it doesn't really make sense story arc wise for caithe to have this massive transformation that, ultimately, is cut off by th end of the episode that it's introduced.

In addition to your own counterpoints:

1. ArenaNet didn't really hype that ascension thing up. ArenaNet just mentioned it once, super vaguely at that, and it's not even clear whether the "ascension" referred to Glint's trials (a mirror - once more - to GW1's three ascension tests) that changed Aurene's appearance, replacing Kralkatorrik as an Elder Dragon, or something else. The hyping and "this must be important!" was, ultimately, done pretty much solely by the community. Like about 90% of hyping in the game. For all we know, ArenaNet included that solely as an excuse to get us alone to learn the "truth of Kralkatorrik".
2. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

[castlemanic.3198]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:In addition to your own counterpoints:

1. ArenaNet didn't really hype that ascension thing up. ArenaNet just mentioned it once, super vaguely at that, and it's not even clear whether the "ascension" referred to Glint's trials (a mirror - once more - to GW1's three ascension tests) that changed Aurene's appearance, replacing Kralkatorrik as an Elder Dragon, or something else. The hyping and "this must be important!" was, ultimately, done pretty much solely by the community. Like about 90% of hyping in the game. For all we know, ArenaNet included that solely as an excuse to get us alone to learn the "truth of Kralkatorrik".
2. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

Yeah you're absolutely right about the ascension thing, they gave an inch and we ran a mile with it.

and i don't usually watch guildchat, so i missed that. i'm really glad they decided not to kill caithe in along with aurene, however appropriate an end that might have been for caithe.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I'm kind of expecting her to ascend, eat Kralk's magic then go to sleep only for another dragon to wake up. Then a title drop with a hyperbolic statement like "this war is endless/eternal" or something like that. Or Aurene only ends up with half of the magic and gets stuck in some kind of endless loop of fighting Kralkatorric with neither able to truly defeat the other making her come back only to sacrifice herself in a different way.

[Ultramex.1506]

Hmmmmm.....Glint has a message for Aurene but we don't know what then she died.........................................i'm sure this isn't part of Glint message at all, Nope! Nada!

[Urud.4925]

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

You... you have a point, sir.At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

[Reynarth.4819]

I'm sure it wasn't the end for Aurene but I think it will take some time for her to come back, surelly this wont happen in this season.

[Randulf.7614]

@Urud.4925 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

You... you have a point, sir.At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.