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Legendary Fractal Armor


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@lare.5129 said:

@thrag.9740 said:But if your looking to use arc build templates to swap back in forth quickly, for example power bs to condi bs, that just isn't going to work.

for this fast swap peopel have 2 diferent character slots, and for fast swap make relog. No leg needed.

That is what I do, switch characters, leg armor with build templets will make life easier.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@tim.4596 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

@phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first placeraids legendary gear 10 weeks for first setwvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours maxfor wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

do you know howlong that takes??????depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time

^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

raids: 2-3 hours per weekwvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

how is that even close?

it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

i'm literally in tears laughingI agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

@tim.4596 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

@phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first placeraids legendary gear 10 weeks for first setwvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours maxfor wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

do you know howlong that takes??????depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time

^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

raids: 2-3 hours per weekwvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

how is that even close?

it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

i'm literally in tears laughingI agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

I have trained over 20+ fully new to partially new raid players by now, with sometimes 1 or up to 4 present in squad. I believe I have a pretty good grasp of who and what skill level of player joins raids at this point in time.

How many training runs have you lead or been part of?

I'll be honest here, I've done a few Guild training run, however I've never done any pug training run, or any training run at all in which we had no say on players. In the training run that I did, it was comprehended that before coming into raids, the players would have prepared a minimum. Food + Utility were a requirements, exotic gear or ascended gear with correct stats (Berserker/Assassin are fairly easy stats to get) Viper for condi classes, and we would also have asked them to do a Golem rotation first (or at least make sure that they knew their rotation). If the player had not done any of that or couldn't get the gear, then they simply weren't ready for raids.

The natural PvE progression for new players is generally Dungeons --> Fractals --> Raids. Going straight from dungeons into raids would be skipping a lot of steps. That would be the general pattern for people who are new to the game and generally interested into End game content such as raids.

I understand that this pattern might not be true for a lot of players in GW2, as most players would probably skip fractals and dungeons altogether and do open world content story instead, and would have probably do their own min/max stats with stats such as trailblazer, commander, soldier or other stats based on their gameplay and what they thought right to go through the game content. Although gearing might be significantly more expensive to those players, as they may have to craft ascended items, instead of stat swapping, they should still be able to get a full set of armor of the correct stats combination before going into raids.

If they are unable to get those stats then they are not ready for raids yet.

The fact that you assume new players are already using the golem tells me not many or if at all. Using the golem to optimize your performance is NOT something you will see for fully new raiders or even semi new raiders.

I originally included a comment in my previous post, which I then deleted as I thought it wasn't necessary to add it. But you wouldn't bring someone with insufficient agony resistance in a T4 fractal run, so why would you bring someone to raid who hasn't done the basic golem training rotation.

But sure, there is greatly varying degrees of players. I'm sure there is some who have extensive experience of fractal CMs who start raiding on the average level of PUG normal groups. My personal subjective experience with fully new people has been different.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

To be honest, not really.
The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:
  • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
  • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
  • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
  • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
  • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

The major difference between raids and fractals remains:Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

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@tim.4596 said:

@tim.4596 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

@phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first placeraids legendary gear 10 weeks for first setwvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours maxfor wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

do you know howlong that takes??????depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time

^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

raids: 2-3 hours per weekwvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

how is that even close?

it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

i'm literally in tears laughingI agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

@tim.4596 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

@phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first placeraids legendary gear 10 weeks for first setwvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours maxfor wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

do you know howlong that takes??????depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time

^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

raids: 2-3 hours per weekwvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

how is that even close?

it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

i'm literally in tears laughingI agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

I have trained over 20+ fully new to partially new raid players by now, with sometimes 1 or up to 4 present in squad. I believe I have a pretty good grasp of who and what skill level of player joins raids at this point in time.

How many training runs have you lead or been part of?

I'll be honest here, I've done a few Guild training run, however I've never done any pug training run, or any training run at all in which we had no say on players. In the training run that I did, it was comprehended that before coming into raids, the players would have prepared a minimum. Food + Utility were a requirements, exotic gear or ascended gear with correct stats (Berserker/Assassin are fairly easy stats to get) Viper for condi classes, and we would also have asked them to do a Golem rotation first (or at least make sure that they knew their rotation). If the player had not done any of that or couldn't get the gear, then they simply weren't ready for raids.

The natural PvE progression for new players is generally Dungeons --> Fractals --> Raids. Going straight from dungeons into raids would be skipping a lot of steps. That would be the general pattern for people who are new to the game and generally interested into End game content such as raids.

I understand that this pattern might not be true for a lot of players in GW2, as most players would probably skip fractals and dungeons altogether and do open world content story instead, and would have probably do their own min/max stats with stats such as trailblazer, commander, soldier or other stats based on their gameplay and what they thought right to go through the game content. Although gearing might be significantly more expensive to those players, as they may have to craft ascended items, instead of stat swapping, they should still be able to get a full set of armor of the correct stats combination before going into raids.

If they are unable to get those stats then they are not ready for raids yet.

The fact that you assume new players are already using the golem tells me not many or if at all. Using the golem to optimize your performance is NOT something you will see for fully new raiders or even semi new raiders.

I originally included a comment in my previous post, which I then deleted as I thought it wasn't necessary to add it. But you wouldn't bring someone with insufficient agony resistance in a T4 fractal run, so why would you bring someone to raid who hasn't done the basic golem training rotation.

But sure, there is greatly varying degrees of players. I'm sure there is some who have extensive experience of fractal CMs who start raiding on the average level of PUG normal groups. My personal subjective experience with fully new people has been different.

While I would agree with everything you said, telling people to get ready is simply often not an option. Most won't come back. The best approach is to take them along and have them experience the content and then explain fundamentals to them.

That in turn costs time, and will not always be successful on top of that. I did mention this in a different thread while ranting. That is the level of player one has to consider though when talking about raid beginners, because that's the level most people begin raiding today.

The first 50 -150 LI will take most people longer than the next 300. Unless the person gets carried for a majority of the raid wings, you won't see more then maybe 7-8 LI per week as new player. Even that assumes a guild squad and not a full training PUG run.

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@tim.4596 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

To be honest, not really.
The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:
  • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
  • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
  • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
  • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
  • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

The major difference between raids and fractals remains:Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@tim.4596 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

To be honest, not really.
The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:
  • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
  • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
  • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
  • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
  • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

The major difference between raids and fractals remains:Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

if only you had to statswap in fractals, which you don'tyou change utilities, at best and even then 99% of the pugs don't bother

because a site says so, totally disregarding the fact that said site is

1) for raids, not for fractals2) for organised groups, to complete each other

not for a random reaper that uses full soldiers gear and is allready happy he didn't die once

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@tim.4596 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

To be honest, not really.
The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:
  • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
  • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
  • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
  • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
  • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

The major difference between raids and fractals remains:Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

Druid maybe (where it's mostly a player skill issue) , chrono (or other tanks) and dps are absolutely affected by Stat swapping in raids.

There simply is a few machnics in raids which benefit Stat swapping directly. One being the actual benefit to condition versus power damage and vice versa depending on encounter. The other being toughness based tanking. Both of which are not present in fractals.

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@lare.5129 said:

@thrag.9740 said:But if your looking to use arc build templates to swap back in forth quickly, for example power bs to condi bs, that just isn't going to work.

for this fast swap peopel have 2 diferent character slots, and for fast swap make relog. No leg needed.

And ? How is that relevant? Your original point was that fractals already have, 'leg value' trinkets. And my point was that, no they don't, because mist trinket stat resetting doesn't incorporate into arc build templates.

Also amulet would come from pvp not wvw, since amulets are the armor/trinket you wear in pvp.

when we say amulet - we mean necklage, it don'y have any tie wiht spvp amulet.

wtf is a necklage? In pve we have amulets:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amulet

And in pvp, we only have access to amulets:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Build#Amulets

Do you actually play this game?

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Aeon.4583" said:

Attunment 4 will take one year to reach, even more without CMs.3/5 most people in my fractal parties have 4 lv Attunment and stats infusions included .. This is today, not after "years"

That only means those 3\5 people been playing fractals for years, before today.I am myself reaching level3, with no legendary armor so far. I simply have no time for raids, not interested in PvP, and god save me from farming legendary armors in WvW.Atleast some kind of appreciation to Fractal players can be a good thing.

Unlike Dungeons, Fractal currency cannot be farmed via reward tracks. Only Fractal Daily, CMs and end-chests.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for freeNoone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

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@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Shaogin.2679" said:due to my low WvW rank and raids being difficult to work into my schedule. I don't care about new armor skins or anything. I just want basic legendary armor that I can grind for in fractals so I can play the game mode I enjoy the most more.

That's only the Mistforged version you need hell a lot of ranks, basically take yearsTriumph Hero version

Not going for mistforged version. At low ranks, you get less pips per tick, which means you have to spend much more time in WvW to be able to afford everything. Went through and calculated the costs and minimum time required and it wound up like this:

  • Raids - Fastest way to obtain legendary armor, though also the most difficult.
  • sPvP - Second fastest way to obtain Legendary armor and relatively easy.
  • WvW - Longest route to obtaining Legendary armor at lower ranks. However, it is by far the easiest since you can pretty much afk while farming pips.
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@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

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@steki.1478 said:

@Aeon.4583 said:Atleast some kind of appreciation to Fractal players can be a good thing.

Yeah because being one of the best gold farms, ascended gear provider and having legy backpiece, infusions and weapon skins arent appreciating players enough..

I would trade my whole bank tab filled with all kind of ascended chests for just one legendary armor piece, without even thinking...

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@zealex.9410 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

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@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

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@zealex.9410 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

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@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

Wvw and pvp are 2 diff modes with very diff rulesets and balance. Pve is pve.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:no to fractal legendary armoryes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

Why shouldnt it be rare?

Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

Wvw and pvp are 2 diff modes with very diff rulesets and balance. Pve is pve.I don't recall wvw and pvp being balanced for classes.It was PVE and PVP/WVW balancingRullests? I guess so. WvW can be compared to Open World PVEFractals to sPvP- 5 man mode.So we are back to PvP has 2 (4 ) sets of legendary armor, PvP players have a chose from which mode they want to get it.PVEers don't.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for freeNoone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for freeNoone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for freeNoone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewardingYet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

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@phs.6089 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for freeNoone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

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