Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Diversity


otto.5684

Recommended Posts

I would like to see an update to our Hammer weapon. It was meant to be a control/support weapon with damage, but several of its skills are a bit finicky, awkward, and slow in comparison with the faster paced gameplay since even the launch. It is a weapon with almost too many counters because nearly every skill is a slow telegraph.

Skill 1: Slow. I would decouple the Symbol from Skill 1.3 and put it on another skill for Hammer (3?), but then speed up the Hammer AA a bit. Maybe AA3 will apply Vulnerability now. Or just make Chill default.

Skill 3: It shoots in a straightline. Even if the foe dodges away, you will be lucky to make it land. And what does it do? Just an immobilize. Hoorah? Though I am sure that the skill has its circumstantial uses, I would replace the skill entirely. Good possible place for a modified Symbol. Symbol of Protection applies Protection (or Resistance) to allies while applying Weakness to foes. So foes will inflict even less damage due to Protection and Weakness.

Skill 5: It seems to work only half the time. Some foes seem to walk through it or bypass it like it was non-existant. Still circumstntially useful for bunkering, but maybe add boon functionality so there are other reasons to use it? Perhaps a short bit of Stability to allies inside the ring?

Overall, I would add some conditions to the Hammer. Make the Hammer apply Cripple, Slow, Weakness, or Vulnerability to the target. Give it something that punishes the enemy and makes them feel weak and slow too. (Opting for Chill if you trait it does not cut it.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Mysticjedi.6053" said:

Only way to make core guardian better is to rework core virtues. Core virtues are some of the most outdated skills in the game that can hardly be considered "profession mechanic" by todays standard. They are actually fairly weak skills with way to long of a CD.Just curious on your opinion of core virtues being outdated , while they haven't changed the core virtues since the release that much they also haven't changed most of the other classes core profession mechanics either so I'm not sure how you meant that. In my opinion they have failed use the traits to augment and improve the traits like they have on other classes and I would go so far that in some instances some of the traits work counter to effective use of the Virtues. Prime example of poor choice is the portion of the FB GM trait Loremaster where you retain the passive effect of the virtue even on cooldown this should have been available as trait in the Core Guardian from the beginning but it isn't.I can definitely agree with this part. Not just when it comes to burst dps. All roles available to guardian feel unfinished to the point that other professions can pick up the same job with either better output or lower effort. Probably only exception is FB in pre-made PvP/WvW.

This has been an issue since HoT and has yet to be addressed along with the uneven way in which they deal with classes that are viewed by some in the community as being unbalanced or overpowered.

All of that aside and returning to the original topic at hand of this thread to those who believe somethings on the Guardian class need to be reworked, what are your ideas, some people have put some of their ideas out here but I would hope that we can get more input from the community on this. As to if the idea is great, good, mediocre or even bad I really don't care because sometimes even a bad idea can have a great concept at its core and with further discussion we can come up with something better. While there is no guarantee that any of this will lead Anet to work to improve the class at the very least it will lead to solid discussion point to push for improvement which has lead to changes for other classes eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is hard to establish a benchmark for core classes performance, cuz it highly in consistent across classes. Why is it relevant in guardian more than most classes, is that Anet pushed for it to become the defacto dps build in PvP (and the backbone of PvE dps) in the end of HoT era. Then last 2 patches did a 180.

Anet, intentionally or not, wiped out most of core Guardian viability without creating any alternatives. DH dps holds in PvE, but its viability in PvP is not existent. Your much better served playing core, even at its current abysmal state.

In the short term, none FB support builds need 2 out of 3: strong sustainability, strong damage and/or strong mobility. The carrying point before was damage. With it being severely neutered sustainability and/or mobility will need a big buff. Long term, HP pools, blocking/unblockables, boon stacking and boon rip all need an overhaul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:-snip-

Sorry for late response.By outdated I meant that game simply outgrew how impactful they are. I agree that traits aren't really that good for virtues, but I don't think that fixing traits is gonna fix core guardian since traits also apply to FB and DH so any change to traits would simply spill over.

There are few things that I would change for core virtues.

  1. Increase their radius to 900. Currently, virtues don't really feel or play like group support skill
  2. Make Virtue of Retribution a default for core virtues (this would also mean removing this trait from the game so i'm not 100% sure on this one)
  3. Increase impact of active core Justice. Make it 10 men in PvE setting and increase the number of stacks to 4 stacks of burning in PvE and 2 stacks in PvP
  4. Increase active healing of Virtue of Resolve. Current healing simply isn't enough to justify 30 sec CD in current powercreep setting
  5. Virtue of Courage should have CD reduced to 35 and personal aegis refresh rate reduced to 30
  6. Active core Virtues should provide passive party buffs for a period of X seconds. For example activating core Justice should increase all damage done by 5% for 7 seconds, Resolve increase all healing received by 10% and Courage reduce all damage taken by 10% for 7 seconds.

Reason behind this is following. Power core guard will always compete with DH, and support/bunker/healer will always compete with Firebrand. Only way to make core guard viable in the long run while maintaining profession diversity is to make it an offensive modifier profession. Core guard would thus maintain less personal dps compared to DH but would contribute to the overall DPS of the group and bring in extra utility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kasoki.5180 For PvE, VoJ all they really need to do is make it deal the same damage as in sPvP.

Another issue for me (mainly for PvE) is unscathed contender, it works in very limited situations and only group settings. In addition by design it is contradictory. Aegis is supposed to be used to block damage. So why is supposed not to be removed?! That is its only function..

You can say the same regarding retaliation. It is just mess. At least you do not lose it when you get attacked.

It is a compounding of bandaids, and it is not working out at this point.

Unrelated to that, one of the few good balance design decisions is removing most of the % damage and damage reduction buffs from most classes. This can easily become a runaway effect in group PvE (even in PvP). In addition, we already have the boon system For buffs. I was thinking that after the nerf RI could provide more might (2 stacks instead of 1) to compensate for the stats loss in PvP. That would be much better than a flat % buff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Percentage based buffs are better because of stacking. Increase in might regeneration would not change core guard position in neither pvp or pve. 25 might is already easy to get in pve so giving it to guardian would not make it a consequential choice in group composition, especially since ri would only give it to guardian. For pvp it would be a good change

This game already has a buffing system outside of boons. There is no reason why not include guardian more into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Care to present some reasoning for both of those claims? How is Anet moving away from % buffs? Even on guardian they are all still mandatory traits. And I don't understand why would a group support version of it be a bad thing if we are looking into how to improve position of core guardian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with the virtues is that their passive is just better than there active (Guardian signet's are the same).If they were to get a rework I would want to see a bigger bang or more impactful bang for activation. This could be increased radius, affect 10 people, or a more powerful effect. Either way right now on Core Guardian there really isn't a point in activating virtues.This could also be solved with traits that promote virtue usage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kasoki.5180 said:Care to present some reasoning for both of those claims? How is Anet moving away from % buffs? Even on guardian they are all still mandatory traits. And I don't understand why would a group support version of it be a bad thing if we are looking into how to improve position of core guardian

I meant % group support. Classes are loaded with personal damage multiplyers. The one comes to mind is Druid. One of the skills used to provide a 5% damage bonus which was removed. AOE stats share was all nerfed from 150 to 100. Banners were almost nerfed to half their value. The direction clearly is less group damage modifiers.

Talking purely from PvE, I think making unscathed contender damage from aegis to retaliation and making VoJ deal same damage in PvE as PvP, that should be enough to put power core builds on par with DH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Since not much has changed from balance patch, diversity is still a major issue.

Mace is so much better, but still not enough to either stand on its own or substitute sword in power builds. The cast time of the symbol must be addressed.

Hammer, still absolutely useless every where and in every context.

Mostly everything else is the same. No competitive PvP builds outside of FB support (or semi support).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@otto.5684 said:Since not much has changed from balance patch, diversity is still a major issue.

Mace is so much better, but still not enough to either stand on its own or substitute sword in power builds. The cast time of the symbol must be addressed.

Hammer, still absolutely useless every where and in every context.

Mostly everything else is the same. No competitive PvP builds outside of FB support (or semi support).

Personally I like the attack speed on hammer, it makes it feel like a heavy weapon. I just wish damage matched. It does have great burst potential, which screams Guardian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi ! I've seen a lot of good ideas here, but some of them literally scared me a lil bit.. Since I like to theorycraft and make my own builds, I'm not used to copy from metabattle or snow'.My goal for every build is to be as much self-sufficient as possible, dps and survivability wise, I'm currently using the same build for every kind of content with my Guardian, toggling some utilities/weapons here and there depending on what I need.Solo I can easily have 25 might, perma fury, and inflict 25 vulnerability, the burning pressure and spread with Permeating Wrath is completly nuts, you cleave hard while only focusing 1 target. In WvW just put a 12s Wall of Reflection in a Zerg and see the enemy burn themselves to hell... 2Xk Hp is a bonus.Statsx2Ek6nU.jpgAnd what this build can casually do ALONE, like, really, alone.acV1v4e.jpg

Build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsd7fnkICtChNDB+CB0EhD5hymBtQjWjgsMAyhRLGjA-jBiAQBA4JA8J1fgx+D1UJ41UiII9DR7kA0MlXkCwPdaA-e

I'm aware that the Guardian overall needs some changes,(that bow is just a joke) but be aware of every possibilities we currently have, because some changes I've seen here can make my build completly overpowered resulting in an obvious nerf...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Only Even.6193" said:Hi ! I've seen a lot of good ideas here, but some of them literally scared me a lil bit.. Since I like to theorycraft and make my own builds, I'm not used to copy from metabattle or snow'.My goal for every build is to be as much self-sufficient as possible, dps and survivability wise, I'm currently using the same build for every kind of content with my Guardian, toggling some utilities/weapons here and there depending on what I need.Solo I can easily have 25 might, perma fury, and inflict 25 vulnerability, the burning pressure and spread with Permeating Wrath is completly nuts, you cleave hard while only focusing 1 target. In WvW just put a 12s Wall of Reflection in a Zerg and see the enemy burn themselves to hell... 2Xk Hp is a bonus.Statsx2Ek6nU.jpgAnd what this build can casually do ALONE, like, really, alone.acV1v4e.jpg

Build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsd7fnkICtChNDB+CB0EhD5hymBtQjWjgsMAyhRLGjA-jBiAQBA4JA8J1fgx+D1UJ41UiII9DR7kA0MlXkCwPdaA-e

I'm aware that the Guardian overall needs some changes,(that bow is just a joke) but be aware of every possibilities we currently have, because some changes I've seen here can make my build completly overpowered resulting in an obvious nerf...

This Build is out dpsed by meta DH solo in PvE. Not by a huge factor, but still favors DH.

In addition, if you play this in pvp, you will die almost instantly to any focus fire and you cannot fight solo against anyone.

Also, all the changes i recommended, in this thread, were parallel changes to the meta PvE builds. The goal is to increase PvP viability for none FB support builds and open more diversity in weapons and builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can still push out 22k dps on my DH if I try hard enough on a stationary target in pve (note I have no infusions). I haven't seen many other builds except for meta builds being used for optimal dps in pve anyway so that eliminates any previous viability you might have been talking about.

As for WvW everyone wants a minstrel firebrand support for zerging so that removes all viability you thought existed on that point; however you can be informals as oyu want if you're not in a guild and just zerg with commanders for fun; it's easier to make WvW builds when you don't have the pressure of someone telling you that you need to run xyz. As for PvP, Arken is still one of the top Firebrands in the season, and he's still a harrier FB. I use a build that's core and uses zeal and I have no trouble killing mesmers, revs, thieves, reapers, warrior (dependent on luck) and rangers, while still having a lot of cleave power in a 1v1 scenario.

The thing you have to remember about firebrand is that the spec was intentionally designed to be a Hybrid one between support/power/condi/tank; so you have to shift your focus on two to three of those instead of maximizing one over the other. It's all dependent on the rules you place on yourself really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@otto.5684 said:Since not much has changed from balance patch, diversity is still a major issue.

Mace is so much better, but still not enough to either stand on its own or substitute sword in power builds. The cast time of the symbol must be addressed.

Hammer, still absolutely useless every where and in every context.

Mostly everything else is the same. No competitive PvP builds outside of FB support (or semi support).

Personally I like the attack speed on hammer, it makes it feel like a heavy weapon. I just wish damage matched. It does have great burst potential, which screams Guardian.I wished they changed some of the functionality of the hammer skills. The hammer skills play like they were made for GW2 in 2012 while the other guardian weapons (apart from the atrocious longbow) play GW2 like it's 2019.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Genesis.8572 said:

@otto.5684 said:Since not much has changed from balance patch, diversity is still a major issue.

Mace is so much better, but still not enough to either stand on its own or substitute sword in power builds. The cast time of the symbol must be addressed.

Hammer, still absolutely useless every where and in every context.

Mostly everything else is the same. No competitive PvP builds outside of FB support (or semi support).

Personally I like the attack speed on hammer, it makes it feel like a heavy weapon. I just wish damage matched. It does have great burst potential, which screams Guardian.I wished they changed some of the functionality of the hammer skills. The hammer skills play like they were made for GW2 in 2012 while the other guardian weapons (apart from the atrocious longbow) play GW2 like it's 2019.

Hammer is surely the worst, But it has company. Mace is still dysfunctional. Scepter has significant issues that prevent from being PvP viable or even a reliable “ranged weapon.” And as you mention LB. This also applies to most guardian utilities. Most shouts, concentrations, most traps and most signets.

@Aridon.8362 I play zeal core guardian. Before RI nerf I think it was an underrated gem. Now.. it is a C build. It works but far from competitive.

Also, saying 1-2 players take a weaker build to a high rating, like harrier FB, is kind of meaningless. If the build is not sufficiently strong to have enough people play at a high level, then it is not a competitive.

Yes, guardian has good diversity in the mediocre PvP realm. Shit gets real, only FB support (and slight variants of it) remain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Instead of starting a new thread, I will just re-put this on the top, since ll issues are the same. Only changes since, mace is slightly better with AA improvement and symbol more damage. Spirit Weapons are slightly better. However, overall everything else is the same. Condi PvE got some new line mix ups, which is very good. PvP wise, only FB support and dps variant (sage FB) are PvP viable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...