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So, do you think Aurene will return in Episode 6: War Eternal?


Erasculio.2914

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

You... you have a point, sir.At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

You... you have a point, sir.At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

I know - that's why I didn't say truly, I said largely. That leaves room for the otherwise even if the evidence appears to stack against the idea

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A hard no, when a character is dead, it should stay so, it's not fun and poor writing to resurrect dead characters.Even if I'm part of a minority, I hate aurene and would prefer to see coming back Blish (ah okay I got it.. was in possession of research showing how to kill stigmatized? So bad since we shouldn't have any solution? That's why he got killed!) a really interesting character. Zafirah shouldn't have joined us, and must die for all the lives she took. Taimi should die soon too or find a solution? Blish bis? Bleh..I will tolerate seeing Aurene in the mists but that's all. Even killing our character and resurrecting it, no sense.Death is more and more shown as a fun thing, hey looks our puppets! we can kill them, we can resurrect them! Will not surprised to see all the troops killed at the end of e5 resurrected. Whereas it was a more serious thing in personal story: Omg tonn is dead! You monster!!! The fault of that stupid pact!!And now: Hey!! Looks! It's my old friend, have you been awakened? -Yeah! was nice, I drunk some cup of tea wandering around elona, really nice place!(not exaggerating, just speak with your awakened troops before fighting kralk)For the joko argument: Kralk killed Aurene who killed Joko the immortal, so it's kralk which have the immortal power.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

You... you have a point, sir.At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

Sure -- we don't even really know if Aurene destroys magic that she consumes. It's just been assumed as inherent in what dragons do, but most of the evidence is from Elder Dragons. She can brand while leaving her "minions" with free will (I say "can", but maybe it makes more sense to say "is willing to").

Maybe the conversion of absorbed magic into their own magic is another part of the corrupt nature of the Elder Dragons, their desire to own and become and dominate and devour everything. For all we know, Aurene can choose to preserve magics that she absorbs, the better to share them with others.

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IMO, Aurene will return in some way - otherwise Glint's actions wouldn't make sense, and we know that Glint's prophecies have been accurate enough to predict what happened until now.

Now, we know Glint isn't against allowing her child to die - see Vlast. I wouldn't be surprised if Aurene dying were a necessity for Glint's plan to work. This plan could be, of course, to set everything up so a solution other than Aurene is needed at the last moment, and would ultimately be used to end the dragon's threat. But it would have been a far too convoluted plan, considering everything Glint herself has done.

The option that makes the most sense is that Aurene's death was needed, and that Aurene will also be needed. If the plan is to fully resurrect Aurene (and then find another excuse as to why she won't just kill the other Elder Dragons by herself), or to leave Aurene limited in some other way (such as stuck in the Mists), I have no idea. But I have the feeling that we will see a full resurrection.

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@"Erasculio.2914" said:we know that Glint's prophecies have been accurate enough to predict what happened until now.

Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

Glint: The Titans the lich loosed upon the world are causing more trouble than even I could have foreseen.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vision_of_Glint

Glint's visions are very far from infallible. And from what we've been told, she has seen nothing beyond her death - at least, prior to said death, but we've also seen no indication that she retained her prophetic abilities postmortem.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

  1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
  1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

Been a while, but iirc, part of the reason for her death was the branding.

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.

In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

It's also established in Scion & Champion that Glint (and Aurene) are not the only beings capable of prophecizing (not that such needed confirmation given we had five or so non-crystal dragons prophecizing in GW1). Ogden mentions a prophecy, but never mentions who the prophet is. (I will continue to say that "prophecy" felt really jammed in as an excuse for why Joko "had to die so soon").

As for the memory, it was confirmed in the AFC that the crystals with Glint's messages were a sort of "reactive AI messaging system" which based the messages on the inhabitants. Said dev mentioned that the contents of the message would be different, had Vlast shown up instead (layout of the lair as well). It most likely reacts by reading the minds of the inhabitants, similar to the canyon Destiny's Edge went through in Edge of Destiny before reaching Glint's lair where they were suddenly able to read each others' minds. Because of this, the messages feels more like a failsafe in case she couldn't survive the battle with Kralkatorrik, rather than something she set up because she foresaw that Aurene would be the one facing off against Kralkatorrik.

Post in mention.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

  1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

Been a while, but iirc, part of the reason for her death was the branding.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.

In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

It's also established in Scion & Champion that Glint (and Aurene) are not the only beings capable of prophecizing (not that such needed confirmation given we had five or so non-crystal dragons prophecizing in GW1). Ogden mentions a prophecy, but never mentions who the prophet is. (I will continue to say that "prophecy" felt really jammed in as an excuse for why Joko "had to die so soon").

As for the memory, it was confirmed in the AFC that the crystals with Glint's messages were a sort of "reactive AI messaging system" which based the messages on the inhabitants. Said dev mentioned that the contents of the message would be different, had Vlast shown up instead (layout of the lair as well). It most likely reacts by reading the minds of the inhabitants, similar to the canyon Destiny's Edge went through in Edge of Destiny before reaching Glint's lair where they were suddenly able to read each others' minds. Because of this, the messages feels more like a failsafe in case she couldn't survive the battle with Kralkatorrik, rather than something she set up because she foresaw that Aurene would be the one facing off against Kralkatorrik.

.

I replayed that instance yesterday. Jammed in is an understatement! I mean i hated almost the entire episode, but that set a poor tone to begin it with.

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In the "Legacy" instance in Ep4, Snaff has also mentioned a prophecy involving Aurene and the Commander, and the Commander's important role in it. It appears that for Glint's endgame to come to fruition, the Commander had to survive Thunderhead no matter what, but it remains to be seen what role the Commander ultimately ends up playing beyond making sure via their close bond that Aurene, if she's to return in some form, won't go mad with power upon taking Kralk's place and magic in the All. I hope that the contents of this prophecy revolving around Glint's Legacy are elaborated on when the time comes.

Snaff: Aurene must kill Kralkatorrik and replace him as Elder Dragon.
Eir: Now.
Pact Commander: No. She can't face Kralkatorrik alone. She isn't ready!
Snaff: Not alone, Commander. Your fate is entwined with hers. The prophecy hinges on you both.
Eir: You must take him down—together. And do not tarry. The more you wait, the more powerful Kralkatorrik will become.
Braham Eirsson: What, you expect them to take down a walking hurricane by themselves? Aurene's still a kid!
Taimi: Stop it! You're scaring her!
Snaff: This is why you were brought together. Vlast failed because he didn't have a champion, Commander. He didn't have you.

I also hope that Ogden finally confirms if it really was Vlast who gave the egg to the Master of Peace to take it to Tarir (as Ogden promised in S2Ep5's "Hidden Arcana" instance that we'd learn the truth when the time was right, and I think the time would be right now). ;)

Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
Ogden: Fear not. He did not steal it. He was given custody of it.
Pact Commander: By whom?
Ogden: You know. You witnessed it, didn't you?
Pact Commander: Not clearly.
Ogden: Then you're not meant to know just yet. All things in their time.

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@"Kossage.9072" said:In the "Legacy" instance in Ep4, Snaff has also mentioned a prophecy involving Aurene and the Commander, and the Commander's important role in it.

I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

He does specifically mention a prophecy, not just a legacy:

Snaff: "Not alone, Commander. Your fate is entwined with hers. The prophecy hinges on you both."

So, between Ogden (a dwarf, and we know some dwarves used to work closely with Glint) and Snaff (who's now working for Glint; Eir says in Legacy that "Glint sent us—with a message for Aurene"), we know that there's a prophecy about current events, describing the commander and Aurene's victory against Kralkatorrik.

Now, you can say this prophecy comes from a mysterious entity whose identity we don't know (I wonder, who do we know that can see the future, is familiar with both Ogden and Snaff, and is interested in Aurene? If only there were some character like that...), but my earlier point still stands: it's possible that Aurene's death was just a necessary part of this prophecy, not a sign of its failure.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:If you want to know more about my reasoning, I'll reference a post I made in the feedback thread.

Loved the comic book references, they're very apt!

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she will return, they both (aurene and kralk) will get trapped in a fractal loop, and aurenes vision about her dying over and over again will come true..while kralk is beating her, but can't escape the loop hence "war eternal"

both dragons still alivethe magical balance not disturbedaurene's vision came true

and that's the end

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I think she'll be back but not quite yet.

Too soon to revive her in a single episode since her death and i'm hoping Kralkatorrik isn't going to fall in this episode either.I expect the next season of living world will deal with her resurrection where as the next episode will deal with finding an alternative solution to dealing with Kralkatorrik.Putting him to sleep or sealing him away temporarily until we can find a way to kill him.

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@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

He does specifically mention a prophecy, not just a legacy:

My point was that a legacy, which in this case happens to be a plan to manipulate events, left behind by a prophet can be inferred - incorrectly - as a prophecy even if it isn't.

Glint's Legacy feels more akin to psychohistory from the Foundation, rather than actual prophecizing. She no doubt knew where Mordremoth and the others would wake up, and knew from past experience how they would act, and created children to fulfill certain roles, while creating failsafes in case she herself could not fulfill her own role. Using these facts (unable to see past the battle with Kralk, knowing where the ED would wake, knowing how they'd likely act, knowing that her children would need mortals to bond with as champions) she'd be able to formulate a large plan that is Glint's Legacy to overthrow and replace the Elder Dragons (or a bare minimum of Kralkatorrik).

but my earlier point still stands: it's possible that Aurene's death was just a necessary part of this prophecy, not a sign of its failure.

Never said it didn't.

@Westenev.5289 said:I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is exactly the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

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@"Westenev.5289" said:I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is
exactly
the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

Maybe Glint has her own reasons for not returning.

We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is
exactly
the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

I still feel like they killed Trahearne off because players hated him for "stealin muh spahtlight". But in regards to resurrections, they're well known but most have ceased to function in the past 250 years (some theories being that Grenth's departure made them stop working). It's a bit more than merely "with enough magic" though. As for Gaheron, nothing says his soul even went to the Mists in the first place.

The only non-standard resurrection techniques that have worked would be Shiro's and the Commander's, both of which required lifeforce of a powerful figure (in Shiro's case, the Weh no Su and Emperor's bloodline, Master Togo; in the Commander's case, the Eater of Souls who has been feasting on dozens of souls recently). Gaheron's method of resurrection seems to have been similar to Shiro's, though through the catalyst of the Eternal Flame (which we still know nothing about, thanks Anet).

Either way, I'm not sure either situation will work on Aurene. Since it'd require a live sacrifice, thus is morally questionable, and unless we happen to find an evil entity that is suitable by pure happistance a second time it wouldn't even be possible.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is
exactly
the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

I still feel like they killed Trahearne off because players hated him for "stealin muh spahtlight". But in regards to resurrections, they're well known but most have ceased to function in the past 250 years (some theories being that Grenth's departure made them stop working). It's a bit more than merely "with enough magic" though. As for Gaheron, nothing says his soul even went to the Mists in the first place.

The only non-standard resurrection techniques that have worked would be Shiro's and the Commander's, both of which required lifeforce of a powerful figure (in Shiro's case, the Weh no Su and Emperor's bloodline, Master Togo; in the Commander's case, the Eater of Souls who has been feasting on dozens of souls recently). Gaheron's method of resurrection seems to have been similar to Shiro's, though through the catalyst of the Eternal Flame (which we still know nothing about, thanks Anet).

Either way, I'm not sure either situation will work on Aurene. Since it'd require a live sacrifice, thus is morally questionable, and unless we happen to find an evil entity that is suitable by pure happistance a
second
time it wouldn't even be possible.

Well, we have been told that Kralk has made a move on the Domain of the Lost (which seems to not be exclusive to human souls). Since Dragons tend to eat magic through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival by using a Mouth of Kralk.

At least, that's my bet.

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@"Westenev.5289" said:Since Dragons tend to feed through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival.

That was only Zhaitan. No other Elder Dragon has a minion specialized for feeding on magic. If you're thinking of the Mouth of Mordremoth, that was Mordremoth's actual body as has been confirmed a few times in PoF and S4. Almost all minions are capable of consuming magic, as we can see in the Conservation of Magic events, among many other situations. Zhaitan's the only one who had a minion specifically designed to feed off of artifacts and the like for him.

I'm also doubtful that Aurene's soul would end up in the Dominion of the Lost, given that place is for the souls of those who died traumatic deaths and forgot themselves. Aurene knew that death was likely in battle, so I'm not sure it'd count. The Commander died traumatically because they witnessed Aurene's capture upon dying (or at least that's my take on it).

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Westenev.5289" said:Since Dragons tend to feed through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival.

That was only Zhaitan. No other Elder Dragon has a minion specialized for feeding on magic. If you're thinking of the Mouth of Mordremoth, that was Mordremoth's actual body as has been confirmed a few times in PoF and S4. Almost all minions are capable of consuming magic, as we can see in the
events, among many other situations. Zhaitan's the only one who had a minion specifically designed to feed off of artifacts and the like for him.

I'm also doubtful that Aurene's soul would end up in the Dominion of the Lost, given that place is for the souls of those who died traumatic deaths and forgot themselves. Aurene knew that death was likely in battle, so I'm not sure it'd count. The Commander died traumatically because they witnessed Aurene's capture upon dying (or at least that's my take on it).

Aurine is a child, not a trained veteran. Her last moments probably consisted of her noticing the Commander getting KO'ed, before facing grandpa kralky solo while knowing full well that despite her training and preperations, she never stood a chance.

If that isn't traumatic, I don't know what is.

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