WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes. - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.

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  • @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Don't listen to people telling you to play meta or GTFO. This is part of why we have such thin populations in this game mode. Because these tossers have driven everyone away to the point where all they did is hop from map to map fighting the same blob, circling here or there and getting high off the smell of each other's farts in their VOIP of choice.

    My suggestion to you is to ignore the tag. If you get the other people on the map who are also roaming together especially on a home borderland it's actually more beneficial to have a secondary blob of say ten to fifteen. Even five to seven will work wonders if you're united instead of spread out all over the place.

    On a home borderland the average tag is just there to get bags for his blob. So just write the tag and his crew off as only going where the action is heaviest. But depending on your match-up and how fat the enemy server is, they're probably going to have several smaller bands two to five or even five to ten running around and taking things wherever your tag isn't. Contrary to what anybody says this is important.

    So if your tag is being that way then go to wherever they aren't with your band of misfits and re flip or defend anything they aren't. You'll still get participation and advancement for whatever reward track you're on, you'll still get fights. And if by chance it turns out the tag finds his blob is a bit too thin to fight the enemy blob at the time? Well that's just tough cheese, isn't it?

    Basically everything they just said. I stopped running with the big blobs as part of a squad ages ago, and usually decline squad invites even when I've found myself running with them. When not running with a havoc group of about 2-5 people I tend to run "with" a zerg and play the role of either ganker or rabbit, depending on which character i'm playing. Its fun watching a third of a group decide to chase down the "easy kill" across the map and away from their buddies only to die from fall damage or another havoc group that I've lead them to. In short, make your own fun and leave the "get a dps meter and play a real class" fools to their zerg blob nonsense.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    OK. Each class has a specific function and advantage in a battle. Explain then how come, for example, soccer teams don't just utilize more than one goaltender if all they've got are more goaltenders than forwards, halfbacks, and fullbacks? Do you think that soccer team will win?

    People can play whatever they like, sure, they just don't need to be making demands to be on the squad team.

    A soccer team cannot have more than a goalkeeper at once in the field by the rules of the soccer game. But they can have more defenders - the Italia team from the "catenaccio" era is a good example. Playing with a lot of defenders did not prevent them to win. On the other hand, the Brasilia dream team had more offensive players than midfileds and defenders together. And this did not prevent them to win.

    Not the type of the players you have is the decisive factor. But the way this players cooperate for a common goal. And the catalyst for this is the commander. Sometimes is not important if you have 4 or 7 guardians in the squad. It is not important if you have 4 or 7 necros in the squad. But it is important if you have a good commander or a bad one.

    To conclude - I'm not a fan of kicking people from squads based on their class. But in the last instance this is a commander decision. If he feels that having that certain class in the squad is bad for the playstile he wants for the squad, then OK. Because, you know, I saw many times a lot of "blessings" addressed by the squad to the commander after a couple of lost battle.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mokk.2397 said:

    @shiri.4257 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:
    Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

    wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

    DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

    I'd like to believe my attitude enriches my puggles daily lives by bringing discipline and order that they desire but are afraid to embrace. Not all resources are available and useful. Steak and fish are food, poop is not. Would you use poop to function as food? or would you buy steak to use as food?

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shiri.4257 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:

    @shiri.4257 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:
    Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

    wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

    DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

    I'd like to believe my attitude enriches my puggles daily lives by bringing discipline and order that they desire but are afraid to embrace. Not all resources are available and useful. Steak and fish are food, poop is not. Would you use poop to function as food? or would you buy steak to use as food?

    Poor dung beetles...

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    So when someone comes in on a build that dies in 5 seconds, that's just playing how they lile. But if a commander wants to play how they like and this is not the same thing because?

  • Reanne.5462Reanne.5462 Member ✭✭

    but don't you like my healing spring?....

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mokk.2397 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:

    @shiri.4257 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:
    Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

    wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

    DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

    OK. Each class has a specific function and advantage in a battle. Explain then how come, for example, soccer teams don't just utilize more than one goaltender if all they've got are more goaltenders than forwards, halfbacks, and fullbacks? Do you think that soccer team will win?

    People can play whatever they like, sure, they just don't need to be making demands to be on the squad team.

    Soccer teams have only 11 players that utilize all available talent to accomplish a goal.But by using a dictated Meta you can eliminate the goal tender because a defender or striker could be just as good .And people are just getting kicked from squads for not using the current meta without demands and being ostracized for playing what they want to play.Even to the point of public ridicule .And I will repeat again that its this exclusionary attitude that is deterring new players from staying in WvW and making many veterans want to leave. You guys keep asking for more from WvW as long as it only on your terms and this is killing WvW.

    The problem wit this analogy, is that Ranger is basically the player that runs around in the public stands outside of the field, and trying to snatch the ball somehow.

    Ranger is just incredibly well suited for small scale, and very poorly suited for large scale. It's like trying to make a Jeep that's well suited for off-road and terrain, and try to make it into a semitrailer.

    And in order to change that, Ranger would need at the very least a whole new weapon, with ranged attacks that can't be reflected.

    Good ranger players can accomplish a lot, even in a zerg battle. But that's largely because of good players finding ways to be useful, playing to the class's strengths, and thus usually circling around, picking off people outside the ball, and positioning themselves and waiting for openings in reflects etc.

    That's a good player making the best of the situation, not that the class is well adapted to the situation.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Planescape Torment, Divinity Original Sin 2, Zelda BotW

  • As long as you're not building like an absolute tart most people really won't be bothered about you're running as. Most open tags will let you join along and do your thing, just help with the building and you should be right. Most serious wvwvw groups usually run private groups without tags so just avoid those groups and you'll be right.

  • Actium.8765Actium.8765 Member ✭✭

    Tried doing a PvE raid with a non-meta class... got kicked. It's not just WvW bruh.

    Char: Acium
    Guild: Mist Raiders [MR]
    Server: Darkhaven

  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭

    @Princ.3598 said:
    (Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

    Hi,

    First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

    The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

    It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

    EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Boons condition clears and heals priority is party>squad>team by including you in the squad u would be taking heals and boons from the people playing meta classes that will benefit the most out of those who are in the squad but not necesary in the party with the person providing this support. Also by not accepting you in the squad maybe u will get frustrated by dying over and over and over with no stabity condi clears etc that you will leave and that 100 man queue will move in order to get a player running a meta build into the map. That is why nobody takes new players or non meta players in the squad, i mean sure some casual pug tagged up will take u but nobody serious about WvW will, just like nobody sariuos about fractals or raids would take u running whatver dumb build u come up with instead of the meta builds

    VR Driver
    Salty beavers top guild 2 years in a row back to back, the double champs
    https://saltybeavers.com/

  • Garkus.2183Garkus.2183 Member ✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217

    Well what are your thoughts on an exotic Cleric Warrior in a PvE Raid wing?

    probly the same as an exotic cleric warrior in wvw 'i may need new glasses'

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Princ.3598 said:

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Boy this sounds familiar. Gonna say, I'm Jade Quarry first of all. I remember scouting for 2 years after launch, went to Edge of the mist in year 3 due to some ranger/scout hate. Left Edge of the Mist and went back into EB and the borderlands when they launched the legendary backpiece, and been back ever since. Of course, learned how badly ranger hate had gotten in Jade Quarry, big time. The commanders on all levels were feckless towards rangers in general. According to them, our DPS was kitten, our pets were useless, we didn't have an overall boon sharing system that was worth a darn, and they didn't like how the majority of our skills were made to only hit one target. Didn't matter if you traited up to hit 5 targets and you were best at firing into a nice little corridor where the enemy couldn't juke left or right, which means you always hit multiple targets no matter what. Still, dealt with Ranger hate. Scout hate/annoyance by commanders. And general disregard and kitten attitude towards pugs. And here I was a Scout Ranger Pug. The kitten I had to put up with for nearly the last two years.....was atrocious. And all I can say Princ, yah, I been in zergs. And I've been kicked out of zergs. Here's the thing. If you are not a guildy, the commander or lieutenant will review the group structure. The first person to be kicked will be a base ranger. Soulbeast would be kicked second. And sorry to say, Druids would be kicked third. And some commanders only give GRUDGING respect to a Druid, but even then they will add an Elementalist or a Guardian healer over a Druid. Even if they did not have a guildy to the group, they'll still see what's around them and take mostly light spellcasters and heavy tanks. Mediums...even beyond ranger get a lot of flack. They'll tell you, you can run by the zerg, but you can't be in the zerg, and then everyone else will preach the sky's the limit for roaming....So yah I feel yah. Reason why a lot of times I just don't even bother to join zerg groups. There is no purpose to join the group, if you already know the commander, and what the commander prefers in the zerg. There's no point to it. So either you can hook up with a more open minded commander, or you can roam. I mean I can't even say anything bad about it, mostly because i'd get flamed from the majority of WvW Guilds for even saying anything bad about the "needs of the zerg". You have a class you like to play. Play it. WvW is one of the few places where you can NOT get kicked out of the overall map. Your allies are stuck with you, no matter what you decide to play. Some commanders and Guilds will prefer you to play a specific class, a specific build, with a specific weapon grouping. It's really up to you on how you wish to proceed from this point forward. Good luck.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @KeyOrion.9506 said:

    @Princ.3598 said:

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Boy this sounds familiar. Gonna say, I'm Jade Quarry first of all. I remember scouting for 2 years after launch, went to Edge of the mist in year 3 due to some ranger/scout hate. Left Edge of the Mist and went back into EB and the borderlands when they launched the legendary backpiece, and been back ever since. Of course, learned how badly ranger hate had gotten in Jade Quarry, big time. The commanders on all levels were feckless towards rangers in general. According to them, our DPS was kitten, our pets were useless, we didn't have an overall boon sharing system that was worth a darn, and they didn't like how the majority of our skills were made to only hit one target. Didn't matter if you traited up to hit 5 targets and you were best at firing into a nice little corridor where the enemy couldn't juke left or right, which means you always hit multiple targets no matter what. Still, dealt with Ranger hate. Scout hate/annoyance by commanders. And general disregard and kitten attitude towards pugs. And here I was a Scout Ranger Pug. The kitten I had to put up with for nearly the last two years.....was atrocious. And all I can say Princ, yah, I been in zergs. And I've been kicked out of zergs. Here's the thing. If you are not a guildy, the commander or lieutenant will review the group structure. The first person to be kicked will be a base ranger. Soulbeast would be kicked second. And sorry to say, Druids would be kicked third. And some commanders only give GRUDGING respect to a Druid, but even then they will add an Elementalist or a Guardian healer over a Druid. Even if they did not have a guildy to the group, they'll still see what's around them and take mostly light spellcasters and heavy tanks. Mediums...even beyond ranger get a lot of flack. They'll tell you, you can run by the zerg, but you can't be in the zerg, and then everyone else will preach the sky's the limit for roaming....So yah I feel yah. Reason why a lot of times I just don't even bother to join zerg groups. There is no purpose to join the group, if you already know the commander, and what the commander prefers in the zerg. There's no point to it. So either you can hook up with a more open minded commander, or you can roam. I mean I can't even say anything bad about it, mostly because i'd get flamed from the majority of WvW Guilds for even saying anything bad about the "needs of the zerg". You have a class you like to play. Play it. WvW is one of the few places where you can NOT get kicked out of the overall map. Your allies are stuck with you, no matter what you decide to play. Some commanders and Guilds will prefer you to play a specific class, a specific build, with a specific weapon grouping. It's really up to you on how you wish to proceed from this point forward. Good luck.

    You miss the point. And by missing the point, I mean waaaaaaaay off the mark. This thread, like countless others, have to do with ranger being kicked from squads. Noone said a ranger cant follow the zerg outside of the squad. But, like it or not, ranger brings little to the table compared to other classes. Dps? Weaver/scourge/herald outdps ranger easily (you dont even have to be on the same skill level) . Boonstrip? None. Support? Firebrand with recent scrapper buff leave the ranger far, far behind. Thus has to do with how the classes work in large scale combat, mind you. Not the player. And it is understandable why commanders prefer some classes to others in zerging. You said "there is no purpose to join the group". The reply to this is "there is no purpose of a ranger joining the group, if the group needs zerging classes". With that being said, you can run along with the zerg, play as you want, have fun. Imagine if someone goes into instanced content (fractals, raids) with "i play how i want" mentality. The kick is instant if the class isnt meta or close to it at least. In wvw, as you said, you can still play, and be of whatever value to your server.

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @KeyOrion.9506 said:

    @Princ.3598 said:

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Boy this sounds familiar. Gonna say, I'm Jade Quarry first of all. I remember scouting for 2 years after launch, went to Edge of the mist in year 3 due to some ranger/scout hate. Left Edge of the Mist and went back into EB and the borderlands when they launched the legendary backpiece, and been back ever since. Of course, learned how badly ranger hate had gotten in Jade Quarry, big time. The commanders on all levels were feckless towards rangers in general. According to them, our DPS was kitten, our pets were useless, we didn't have an overall boon sharing system that was worth a darn, and they didn't like how the majority of our skills were made to only hit one target. Didn't matter if you traited up to hit 5 targets and you were best at firing into a nice little corridor where the enemy couldn't juke left or right, which means you always hit multiple targets no matter what. Still, dealt with Ranger hate. Scout hate/annoyance by commanders. And general disregard and kitten attitude towards pugs. And here I was a Scout Ranger Pug. The kitten I had to put up with for nearly the last two years.....was atrocious. And all I can say Princ, yah, I been in zergs. And I've been kicked out of zergs. Here's the thing. If you are not a guildy, the commander or lieutenant will review the group structure. The first person to be kicked will be a base ranger. Soulbeast would be kicked second. And sorry to say, Druids would be kicked third. And some commanders only give GRUDGING respect to a Druid, but even then they will add an Elementalist or a Guardian healer over a Druid. Even if they did not have a guildy to the group, they'll still see what's around them and take mostly light spellcasters and heavy tanks. Mediums...even beyond ranger get a lot of flack. They'll tell you, you can run by the zerg, but you can't be in the zerg, and then everyone else will preach the sky's the limit for roaming....So yah I feel yah. Reason why a lot of times I just don't even bother to join zerg groups. There is no purpose to join the group, if you already know the commander, and what the commander prefers in the zerg. There's no point to it. So either you can hook up with a more open minded commander, or you can roam. I mean I can't even say anything bad about it, mostly because i'd get flamed from the majority of WvW Guilds for even saying anything bad about the "needs of the zerg". You have a class you like to play. Play it. WvW is one of the few places where you can NOT get kicked out of the overall map. Your allies are stuck with you, no matter what you decide to play. Some commanders and Guilds will prefer you to play a specific class, a specific build, with a specific weapon grouping. It's really up to you on how you wish to proceed from this point forward. Good luck.

    You miss the point. And by missing the point, I mean waaaaaaaay off the mark. This thread, like countless others, have to do with ranger being kicked from squads. Noone said a ranger cant follow the zerg outside of the squad. But, like it or not, ranger brings little to the table compared to other classes. Dps? Weaver/scourge/herald outdps ranger easily (you dont even have to be on the same skill level) . Boonstrip? None. Support? Firebrand with recent scrapper buff leave the ranger far, far behind. Thus has to do with how the classes work in large scale combat, mind you. Not the player. And it is understandable why commanders prefer some classes to others in zerging. You said "there is no purpose to join the group". The reply to this is "there is no purpose of a ranger joining the group, if the group needs zerging classes". With that being said, you can run along with the zerg, play as you want, have fun. Imagine if someone goes into instanced content (fractals, raids) with "i play how i want" mentality. The kick is instant if the class isnt meta or close to it at least. In wvw, as you said, you can still play, and be of whatever value to your server.

    Sorry, but I can't really figure out the part where you think the point was missed. The point as I always see it is that you don't need to be in a squad to play and the important thing is to play and have fun, which it seems is mostly agreed with all round.
    The beliefs and intentions of commanders can help inform about their actions (and are free to be disagreed with as much as anyone likes) but are kind of tangential to the point. (Because there's no one correct belief.)

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imo rangers should always form its squad or 5 player teams, call targets and gank spikes players that are trying to down allies, spiking on overextended dome spellbreakers, tags, try to find key holders on enemy groups.. there’s a lot a team of rangers can actually do.

    Problem is... most want to play w/o sorrounding awareness, and play LB rangers on melee like they are warriors...

  • Nazshar.3051Nazshar.3051 Member
    edited March 23, 2019

    It's not really about the profession you play, it's about how you play your profession!

    I understand the commander who wants to kick non meta players out of their full squad because it puts you at a (severe) disadvantage against the enemy zerg. But a properly played und skilled soulbeast can easily make it into the "top 5 dmg dealt" if not claim first place and share unique buffs aka stances. Another advantage is rangers siege clear if your zerg intents to go for protectet structures. As long as Barrage can be placed out of sight a single ranger can get rid of anything on top and behind walls in 1500 (+360) range. Not to mention multiple rangers.... But almost no ranger knows about this...
    Last but not least: The infamous commander snipe. An overcharged Rapid Fire can take down a full minstrel guard in 1-2 seconds

    But as it stands with all professions most "zerg rangers" play poorly and a poorly played meta profession is better for your zerg than a poorly played non meta profession.

    So if you are good at your profession just let your contribution be known in chat or even better voice chat and you will be welcomed by your commanders as a player who knows what he is doing.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nazshar.3051 said:
    It's not really about the profession you play, it's about how you play your profession!

    I understand the commander who wants to kick non meta players out of their full squad because it puts you at a (severe) disadvantage against the enemy zerg. But a properly played und skilled soulbeast can easily make it into the "top 5 dmg dealt" if not claim first place and share unique buffs aka stances. Another advantage is rangers siege clear if your zerg intents to go for protectet structures. As long as Barrage can be placed out of sight a single ranger can get rid of anything on top and behind walls in 1500 (+360) range. Not to mention multiple rangers.... But almost no ranger knows about this...
    Last but not least: The infamous commander snipe. An overcharged Rapid Fire can take down a full minstrel guard in 1-2 seconds

    But as it stands with all professions most "zerg rangers" play poorly and a poorly played meta profession is better for your zerg than a poorly played non meta profession.

    So if you are good at your profession just let your contribution be known in chat or even better voice chat and you will be welcomed by your commanders as a player who knows what he is doing.

    You can do all of the above outside of the squad. As for the ranger sniping a minstrel FB, with all reflects heals boons etc... Yeah, no. That would be a rarity. Plus enemy squad will have the FB up in no time.

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @KeyOrion.9506 said:

    @Princ.3598 said:

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Boy this sounds familiar. Gonna say, I'm Jade Quarry first of all. I remember scouting for 2 years after launch, went to Edge of the mist in year 3 due to some ranger/scout hate. Left Edge of the Mist and went back into EB and the borderlands when they launched the legendary backpiece, and been back ever since. Of course, learned how badly ranger hate had gotten in Jade Quarry, big time. The commanders on all levels were feckless towards rangers in general. According to them, our DPS was kitten, our pets were useless, we didn't have an overall boon sharing system that was worth a darn, and they didn't like how the majority of our skills were made to only hit one target. Didn't matter if you traited up to hit 5 targets and you were best at firing into a nice little corridor where the enemy couldn't juke left or right, which means you always hit multiple targets no matter what. Still, dealt with Ranger hate. Scout hate/annoyance by commanders. And general disregard and kitten attitude towards pugs. And here I was a Scout Ranger Pug. The kitten I had to put up with for nearly the last two years.....was atrocious. And all I can say Princ, yah, I been in zergs. And I've been kicked out of zergs. Here's the thing. If you are not a guildy, the commander or lieutenant will review the group structure. The first person to be kicked will be a base ranger. Soulbeast would be kicked second. And sorry to say, Druids would be kicked third. And some commanders only give GRUDGING respect to a Druid, but even then they will add an Elementalist or a Guardian healer over a Druid. Even if they did not have a guildy to the group, they'll still see what's around them and take mostly light spellcasters and heavy tanks. Mediums...even beyond ranger get a lot of flack. They'll tell you, you can run by the zerg, but you can't be in the zerg, and then everyone else will preach the sky's the limit for roaming....So yah I feel yah. Reason why a lot of times I just don't even bother to join zerg groups. There is no purpose to join the group, if you already know the commander, and what the commander prefers in the zerg. There's no point to it. So either you can hook up with a more open minded commander, or you can roam. I mean I can't even say anything bad about it, mostly because i'd get flamed from the majority of WvW Guilds for even saying anything bad about the "needs of the zerg". You have a class you like to play. Play it. WvW is one of the few places where you can NOT get kicked out of the overall map. Your allies are stuck with you, no matter what you decide to play. Some commanders and Guilds will prefer you to play a specific class, a specific build, with a specific weapon grouping. It's really up to you on how you wish to proceed from this point forward. Good luck.

    You miss the point. And by missing the point, I mean waaaaaaaay off the mark. This thread, like countless others, have to do with ranger being kicked from squads. Noone said a ranger cant follow the zerg outside of the squad. But, like it or not, ranger brings little to the table compared to other classes. Dps? Weaver/scourge/herald outdps ranger easily (you dont even have to be on the same skill level) . Boonstrip? None. Support? Firebrand with recent scrapper buff leave the ranger far, far behind. Thus has to do with how the classes work in large scale combat, mind you. Not the player. And it is understandable why commanders prefer some classes to others in zerging. You said "there is no purpose to join the group". The reply to this is "there is no purpose of a ranger joining the group, if the group needs zerging classes". With that being said, you can run along with the zerg, play as you want, have fun. Imagine if someone goes into instanced content (fractals, raids) with "i play how i want" mentality. The kick is instant if the class isnt meta or close to it at least. In wvw, as you said, you can still play, and be of whatever value to your server.

    Sorry, but I can't really figure out the part where you think the point was missed. The point as I always see it is that you don't need to be in a squad to play and the important thing is to play and have fun, which it seems is mostly agreed with all round.
    The beliefs and intentions of commanders can help inform about their actions (and are free to be disagreed with as much as anyone likes) but are kind of tangential to the point. (Because there's no one correct belief.)

    Previous poster wrote about "ranger hate" etc. People who main ranger need to realize that it is not hate, but truth that a ranger isnt really good in zergs. And when said ranger main people try to impose their beliefs on the squad, it is a bit natural to get laughed at in the long term.

    So the umbrage was that the word hate implies something irrational and you believe it's completely rational?

    I don't think that rangers are trying to impose their beliefs on a squad really though in fairness. That's certainly not the impression I got from the post. But as an example of how and why my beliefs may differ from yours, my formative WvW years were spent on a relatively low pop server, and WvW to me is primarily a numbers game, so to me +1 body is always better than +0 bodies. So in the example outlined in the OP, if I had been commanding I wouldn't have kicked at 35/50. Nothing will really change this belief for me because it is core to my WvW experience (along with a few other differences that aren't really worth outlining since hopefully the point is already illustrated). As an example of a different extreme, a commander on my map a week or so ago said "we have a map queue, so if you can't keep up with me log off or switch maps" which is something I could never agree with. But I don't begrudge other commanders their style/beliefs/ways to organise squads, simply because they've had their own formative experiences that have resulted in them. (The only thing I really take umbrage with is when commanders think they have the right to dictate to the entire map outside just their squad).

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Nazshar.3051 said:
    It's not really about the profession you play, it's about how you play your profession!

    I understand the commander who wants to kick non meta players out of their full squad because it puts you at a (severe) disadvantage against the enemy zerg. But a properly played und skilled soulbeast can easily make it into the "top 5 dmg dealt" if not claim first place and share unique buffs aka stances. Another advantage is rangers siege clear if your zerg intents to go for protectet structures. As long as Barrage can be placed out of sight a single ranger can get rid of anything on top and behind walls in 1500 (+360) range. Not to mention multiple rangers.... But almost no ranger knows about this...
    Last but not least: The infamous commander snipe. An overcharged Rapid Fire can take down a full minstrel guard in 1-2 seconds

    But as it stands with all professions most "zerg rangers" play poorly and a poorly played meta profession is better for your zerg than a poorly played non meta profession.

    So if you are good at your profession just let your contribution be known in chat or even better voice chat and you will be welcomed by your commanders as a player who knows what he is doing.

    You can do all of the above outside of the squad. As for the ranger sniping a minstrel FB, with all reflects heals boons etc... Yeah, no. That would be a rarity. Plus enemy squad will have the FB up in no time.

    Did anet removed the amout of unblocables from the class or its elite spec like 4sec on pet swapping ??
    As u know that will bypass everything besides dodges and invunerability

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rashagar.8349 said:

    I don't think that rangers are trying to impose their beliefs on a squad really though in fairness. That's certainly not the impression I got from the post. But as an example of how and why my beliefs may differ from yours, my formative WvW years were spent on a relatively low pop server, and WvW to me is primarily a numbers game, so to me +1 body is always better than +0 bodies. So in the example outlined in the OP, if I had been commanding I wouldn't have kicked at 35/50. Nothing will really change this belief for me because it is core to my WvW experience (along with a few other differences that aren't really worth outlining since hopefully the point is already illustrated). As an example of a different extreme, a commander on my map a week or so ago said "we have a map queue, so if you can't keep up with me log off or switch maps" which is something I could never agree with. But I don't begrudge other commanders their style/beliefs/ways to organise squads, simply because they've had their own formative experiences that have resulted in them. (The only thing I really take umbrage with is when commanders think they have the right to dictate to the entire map outside just their squad).

    People ragequit easier if they die more often. If you're not in squad you're more likely to die to enemy aoes because you're not receiving heals from the squad. More dying = more rallies for the enemy at which point those people outside of the squad are not just worthless, but they help enemy more than they help allies. More (rage)quits means more chance of getting someone on proper class (or another roamer who doesnt rally on tag, but focuses on slowing down enemy supply income, scouts for big zergs, kills people off guard etc) or even getting someone form the voice chat who's in queue and already has a better class for squad.

    Playing on a lower pop server means that you rarely get queues and if there's no queues there's no reason to get rid of such classes because you're not having large-scale fights anyway. At that point you can just take what you get because you wont be getting much. WvW is a game of numbers, but when both sides have the same numbers and those numbers are limited on the map then you have to deal with quality of classes and adapt accordingly. And if commanders are trying to "dictate to the entire map" then they are doing it for the benefit of server or fun of other 40+ people in the squad who are playing as a team, not the ones buzzing around like mosquitoes taking everything for granted.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2019

    Generally I find the advice of "simply go roaming" and "don't join the squad" not very helpful. There are several strong downsides to not joining the squad, which are left totally out of this discussion:
    You can go roaming, but please be aware, that you will receive significantly smaller rewards. You kill a player character here and there, and take a camp every now and then, but compared to what people in the zerg make, you are actively being punished for not following the zerg. You can of course still have fun. You usually can't take bigger objectives: Towers tend to be better defended - or your zerg likely has already taken them.

    If you follow the zerg without joining the squad you will be missing out on important tactical information. Commanders set down location markers, indicting movements, or areas, where they want certain status effects, expect enemies to move to, etc. - if you're not in the squad, you will not see those, leaving you to guess what the commander wants, even if you're on TS.
    That you die easier, as boons will less likely be shared with you adds insult to injury.

    Not joining the squad is usually a bad option. Being kicked from the squad effectively means, that the comm tells you not only to leave the squad, but generally be denoted to a less fun playing experience (YMMV); less fun means likely some players will leave. In the end the whole game mode suffers, as devs are looking at the numbers of players using certain game modes and direct resources to the game modes based on population. In the end, the same elitist players, who kick meta-classes are likely the same ones, who complain about their game mode not being given enough attention.
    So this whole elitist behavior and meta-classes thing IMO is detrimental to the game mode as a whole.

    I think the best playing experience comes from playing what you enjoy. As a comm and as a player you have certain "duties" when it comes to playing in a zerg.
    As a player, your duty should be:

    • listen to the commands
    • join TS / discord if being used
    • support your co-players in every game you can (taking into account the profession you play)
    • down enemies, help take objectives, help build siege, help downed players, distract enemies
    • spy and bring in reports

    You should also donate siege, as the comm mostly places siege.

    As a commander your duties should be:

    • decide which objective to tackle next
    • decide where to play siege and what to place
    • command push, bomb, give advice, dodge, twice, CC here, dodge, then turn, go for their tail, heals on me, casters to the left, etc.
    • share participation with spies. If you designate roaming squads, guards, share participation with these, too.

    Generally more focus should be given to the overall game mode, not simply zerg vs zerg fights. If you tackle objectives, you're bound to face enemy zergs anyways. But in the end, THIS is the comms decision. If they want to lead a combat suqad and ignore objectives, so be it.

    This is IMO overstepping your bounds as a comm:

    • dictate which classes to bring
    • dictate which specs to choose
    • dictate which powers/weapons/utilities to bring

    You can of course, ask a player, if they cannot rather being a different spec into the game, in a polite manner, but the answer given has to be accepted.

    This is IMO overstepping your bounds as a player:

    • using mounts / attacks when comm is trying to get the zerg to go invisible
    • revealing location, when the comm has clearly given orders "I need two to go to that sentry, rest wait here"
    • ignoring commands generally

    However, you can't blame players ignoring commands, if they're not allowed to join the squad. You kick them, you gotta live with them playing on their own. That is not an excuse for players to misbehave when kicked; a kick should be accepted not lead to drama, but comms can't expect kicked players to keep full attention.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    @joneirikb.7506 said:
    Just a question: What if the commander says something like "With this combination of classes, I can't really do anything, so I'll just tag down and go do something else."

    Then it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I've seen comms do that. No whining about that, just as some players cannot or are not willing to play everything, not every comm can deal with everything. There is no "right to a commander" in every map, there is no "right to demand a commander" from the player side.

    I've also seen comms tag down, because players do not listen. I'd even say, that's the only possible reaction in that case: If the players are unwilling to fulfil their part of the "social contract" (as I see it, detailed above), you can't expect any comm in the world, to stay tagged.

    What I object to is primarily is_open_ tags kicking non-meta people. Open tags are important, they are single the most important thing about WvW. They deserve our respect, they deserve our attention when they command, they deserve us listening to their commands.

    I do not object to invite only squads not accepting just anyone in. I object to open tags kicking people. This IMO goes against what this game is about.
    To remind you what this game is about:

    https://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/play-guild-wars-2

    Play who you want to be.
    Play your way.

    Again: This does not equal to "be a selfish xxxxxxxxxx", see my post above for what I believe player duties to be in a social context.

    Notice how it does not say "Play only meta professions, or be excluded from portions of the game" (or have your experience greatly dminished)? This meta-builds is not only a thing in WvW, but also in Fractals and Raids, and sPvP and from personal experience I can say that I can see it somewhat being warranted for Raids , because those are kinda hard. Optimization helps a lot here. sPvP I will not touch even with a 10-foot-pole, so someone else can say something about that.

    But Fractals and WvW? IMO these game modes do not require that line of thinking. This mindset is harmful to the game mode as a whole. And in the end, this means this line of thinking is harmful for the future development of these game modes.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    You can also follow the zerg outside of the squad. Shocking, i know.

    "Don't come anywhere near my squad" - that's what I heard, being said open, in map chat. Yes, you can of course do that, but clearly someone is telling you to stay away.
    A kick is possibly a lesser version of that.

    No, you wont if youre on ts/discord.

    Ah, not even bothering to read what I posted. Maybe your comm isn't working with those colormarkers. Green arrow here, circle there. Not on TS? Try to figure out who's gonna move where, ohwhoops, you're in the middle of the enemy zerg. Fun times.

    Why would you need boons as a nonblob class?

    I am pretty sure you are aware how boons work, and why they are beneficial. So I'll just let that speak for itself.

    You must be new. The commander isnt there for YOUR entertainment

    Agreed. See my post a bit above for the duties a player has IMO. See a bit lower about what I say about respect.
    This also goes both ways. And since this goes both ways, the player isn' t there for the entertainment of the comm. (I feel some players, like those talking about entitlement a lot - but this might be an unjustified generalization are not even in this game for their own entertainment. I honestly have no idea what drives those people being all supersalty, even insulting comms in PvE if some boss event fails.)

    As to the overstepping bounds: I am trying to use common sense here. When someone in real life micromanages your life, you'll like not turn out to be happy. Same ingame. That has nothing to do with entitlement.
    Entitlement would be, if I would demand to be:

    • invited into every invite-only squad
    • expect antisocial behavior to be accepted (see my posts above for what I believe player duties to be. That is not antisocial)
    • gameplay centered around me
    • whining when dying "where is the healing, where is the stability"

    All this is not the case. Being invited into a squad consisting of 20,30 or 50 people is clearly not gameplay centered around me, this has nothing to do with entitlement.
    If this would be entitlement, then the following would be trolling:

    • tagging up with an open squad, advertising, asking for ppl to join
    • then kicking people joining the open tag

    Commanders dont really care about kicked players.

    If only that were true. I've seen pugs getting reprimanded and not in a very polite manner, when accidently (well. At least I will assume it was accidently, and not on purpose) ruining a veil or other form of invis, or revealing position on map prematurely. Commanders do care, and in these case rightfully so.

    And finally:

    Even worse is the self-entitled opinion of "i belong everywhere"

    You clearly do not know me. You have no idea what I am like. The same is likely true about other players. There might be some around, for which what you say is true, but simply assuming that about players is ... well ... how should I put this politely? Let's just say this is wrong.
    For example, after trying out Raids for a bit, I know that I don't belong there. I know that I don't belong in sPvP. But WvW? It's fun.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Did anet removed the amout of unblocables from the class or its elite spec like 4sec on pet swapping ??
    As u know that will bypass everything besides dodges and invunerability

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union - provides 4secs of unblockable when merging with your pet

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clarion_Bond - which casts Lesser Call of the Wild when you swap pets (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild) only gives unblockable to your pet, same as the normal Call of the Wild does. If a Soulbeast is merged with their pet when they use Warhorn though, then the Ranger's attacks become unblockable instead.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:

    I've also seen comms tag down, because players do not listen. I'd even say, that's the only possible reaction in that case: If the players are unwilling to fulfil their part of the "social contract" (as I see it, detailed above), you can't expect any comm in the world, to stay tagged.

    wth is a social contract?

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    Social contract, in political philosophy, an actual or hypothetical compact, or agreement, between the ruled and their rulers, defining the rights and duties of each.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

    As you see, putting it in "" for good reason.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:
    Social contract, in political philosophy, an actual or hypothetical compact, or agreement, between the ruled and their rulers, defining the rights and duties of each.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

    As you see, putting it in "" for good reason.

    What class do you play?

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:
    Social contract, in political philosophy, an actual or hypothetical compact, or agreement, between the ruled and their rulers, defining the rights and duties of each.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

    As you see, putting it in "" for good reason.

    Wow that's great! i would love to be your sovereign! will you bring the proper armor, class, gameplay, and gravel at my feet before every raid? i've always wanted to live out my fantasy as king of ebg. i will gladly accept your fealty as long as you do as I wish. In exchange, I'll help you with your dailies.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2019

    What is the difference then from the commander simply tagging down which you seem ok with? Absolutely nothing. They both have the same effect on the experience/rewards and I'd argue that not having a tag is even worse for experience/rewards than a tag that kicks some players!

    The comparison is a bit slanted to say the least. You're basically saying that being fired from a job (while actually doing what you can, see few posts above for what I believe player duties to be in this social context) is the same as a generally underperforming company shutting down.
    The first one feels like some kind of attack - some here have even phrased this openly: "You're a selfish ##### for playing this or that profession." (not a literal quote, but you get where I'm coming from, I'm sure.) - and I do not believe this to be true. We surely all have our faults, I mean nobody is perfect, but simply assuming one thing from the profession a person enjoys to play is wrong.

    @shiri.4257 said
    Wow that's great! i would love to be your sovereign!

    Sounds like you critizize my approach of using "social contract" in this context, to which I can reply with a quote from this thread:

    @aspirine.5839 said
    It's THEIR group so they make up the rules, no point on complaining. Just get a class that is wanted or go on defense/roaming/scouting.

    The sovereign seems to reign supreme indeed :)

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • @Chaba.5410 said:
    The comparison is accurate. Your job analogy makes it even more accurate. People get fired from jobs usually because of being bad for the role. An underperforming company shutting down is the result of too many people being bad at their roles and company management not dealing with their people resource issue too well. The only difference with the analogy is that a server is full of people you didn't hire. Still, no compelling reason given by you for why someone leading a squad shouldn't kick people who are doing bad at the role they are needed for/not showing up for work with the right skills. Commanders who want to be competitive in fights against other squads should absolutely be managing the composition of their squads.

    You could even say that forming up on and comping a squad is the hiring process. ;)
    The commander will "employ" the people most qualified for the task. If your strengths (class) lie in another field, you'd have better luck elsewhere.

    With that said.. If k-training, class/build won't matter 90% of the time -- it's braindead, you don't even need a squad. If comped for RvR, tailored (meta) class/build is paramount. As a roamer of 6 years who only really just got into large-scale, I play whatever is required of me, when it's appropriate. If you're set on playing one class/build, and aren't flexible, that choice is what is confining you to one area, and you shouldn't expect people to accommodate you based on a whim.
    When that's all said and done, you still have the choice to play how you want; outside of the squad. If solo play really isn't your thing and you're playing a "roaming" class/build, either form your own squad, or better yet, join one of the many roaming/havoc/zerg-busting guilds out there. Or join a casual PvX guild that doesn't care what you bring. Roaming solo or with friends/PUGs is also a thing.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    I've played the game since release and have never been booted from any party except for being AFK or on the wrong map. I've also commanded on a scrapper pre med-kit and a druid was in my main party. I don't even have full minstrels or monk runes on my guardian. Nobody cares, maybe because we have like 3-4 firebrands that are full meta and are getting one pushed every fight. Honestly, if you're not this, most sane commanders aren't going to have a problem. It's when they can identify you as frequently dead, that they're not going to want you.

    I really hate to break it to you folks, but if you're regularly being kicked, you're probably bad at this game. Considering the forums throughout all game modes consist of anecdotes of so called veteran people being incapable of the simplest of tasks (eg press dodge key or even gear up in exotics after years of play), it's most likely this is the case. I mean, it's wvw blobbing. Outside of open world, this is the easiest task, and most commanders just need warm bodies, but for some reason, you can't even meet this bar. It's very likely that you would get kicked on sight regarding anything in this game that actually requires effort. "Oh no, I'm missing out on some tactical information" when you probably couldn't even explain what that actually is.

    It's okay, because most of the game does not require actual skill to get most of the stuff anyways, and also most of the population is bad too! All you need to do is be marginally less bad than everyone else, blob up, and you will go far.

    I mean in the end, nobody cares. You don't even know why you want to be in the squad; it's just that not being in it irks you. That's not a reason.

    Oh btw, maybe try getting to know the commanders? Once you get to know them a bit, maybe slip in the question that you do want to run on your special snowflake build and hey, maybe they'll let you meme. Promise to switch if things go south. Yea, talk to people about it..... this a'int a single player game. You have to face reality sometimes. I was running burn guard, and I would flat out tell everyone I was doing that but with the advance of the condi clear scrapper, it is completely useless in zergs now with a clue. So I had to give up on it; life sucks, but ignoring reality is even worse.

    Seconded

    I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

    Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

    Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

    Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Seconded

    I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

    Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

    Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

    Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

    This game needs more commanders like you, Risen. If only more were this open minded.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

    Single target pick builds probably won't register as particularly high in any of those categories, but they do serve a niche contributive role. No replacement for a meta guard, necro, scrapper etc. -- but should otherwise fall into your loose criteria of not being detrimental.

    Also, while I generally run straight dps on my necro, I have saved a lot more people on my transfusion build, sometimes leading to swinging the fight in my team's favor.
    Its just the fuckups that are more memorable and visible-- with everyone being clumped up, and some of those "fuckups" were caused by unwanted delayed teleporting. That teleport AI is about as unreliable as Ranger's SnR.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Classes like thieves and rangers don't need to be a part of the squad. There is very little they can add that other classes can't. Both care capable of killing someone fairly quickly which is ideal for stragglers. Perhaps those that are running thieves and rangers can be given squad participation? They do help, especially rangers, they can make the lives miserable of scourges and revs.

  • sitarskee.5738sitarskee.5738 Member ✭✭✭

    Depends on the commander but in most cases, they're nice and fun people. I remember doing a decent dps with a reaper in a squad for few hours already, we were attacking a gate and a commander said that whoever does the most dmg to gate with skills gets 10g and I of course won being only reaper in squad, and then the commander said who the hell invited reaper into the squad and kicked me. It was funny as hell. FSP commanders are the funny guys.

    But on topic, even though I sometimes got kicked even when playing meta classes, I would still follow the squad and have good fun.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    I've played the game since release and have never been booted from any party except for being AFK or on the wrong map. I've also commanded on a scrapper pre med-kit and a druid was in my main party. I don't even have full minstrels or monk runes on my guardian. Nobody cares, maybe because we have like 3-4 firebrands that are full meta and are getting one pushed every fight. Honestly, if you're not this, most sane commanders aren't going to have a problem. It's when they can identify you as frequently dead, that they're not going to want you.

    I really hate to break it to you folks, but if you're regularly being kicked, you're probably bad at this game. Considering the forums throughout all game modes consist of anecdotes of so called veteran people being incapable of the simplest of tasks (eg press dodge key or even gear up in exotics after years of play), it's most likely this is the case. I mean, it's wvw blobbing. Outside of open world, this is the easiest task, and most commanders just need warm bodies, but for some reason, you can't even meet this bar. It's very likely that you would get kicked on sight regarding anything in this game that actually requires effort. "Oh no, I'm missing out on some tactical information" when you probably couldn't even explain what that actually is.

    It's okay, because most of the game does not require actual skill to get most of the stuff anyways, and also most of the population is bad too! All you need to do is be marginally less bad than everyone else, blob up, and you will go far.

    I mean in the end, nobody cares. You don't even know why you want to be in the squad; it's just that not being in it irks you. That's not a reason.

    Oh btw, maybe try getting to know the commanders? Once you get to know them a bit, maybe slip in the question that you do want to run on your special snowflake build and hey, maybe they'll let you meme. Promise to switch if things go south. Yea, talk to people about it..... this a'int a single player game. You have to face reality sometimes. I was running burn guard, and I would flat out tell everyone I was doing that but with the advance of the condi clear scrapper, it is completely useless in zergs now with a clue. So I had to give up on it; life sucks, but ignoring reality is even worse.

    Seconded

    I always run open squad, the only builds I don't want around are burn guard and transfusion scourge as both can cause unnecessary losses.

    Burn guard spews burning, which scrappers convert to aegis. If not for purity of purpose, burn guard can do really good damage. But that isn't the meta right now. Instead they make scrapper comps immortal

    Transfusion scourge is too risky. Poor stab and lasts 9s. All it takes is one mesmer to pull you into a bomb, then you pull all the other downs into the bomb, then they die and rally half the enemy causing a wipe.

    Other than that, I can't make anyone run something useful. If you have some strange build and it's showing up as effective in arcdps, I'm not going to complain- im going to ask for a link. On the flip side of that, if you have really bad damage, cleansing, strip, heal, and boon output.... why would you want to run that build at all?

    Well, communication is important. If you didn't tell me burn doesn't convert to Aegis, I wouldn't know why it's a bad idea to run burn in zergs. And I had to also understand why Aegis is important. I convinced my friend that longbow doesn't work just by having a people spam their reflects out and it was a lot. So it's easy to see. Actually fighting often gives bad feedback because of uneven fights so people may think they're doing something because they are winning or they think they are not because they are losing when they are other factors. For example, your dps will be bad if your guardians don't provide defensive boons so that they can dps away.

    But people don't want to explain under the guise of "I've done it 50 times already!", which means absolutely nothing to people that are new. And of course there are veterans that expect people to know everything from the start when they don't themselves.

    Recently, we've been blasting stealth and people were getting pissed that light fields or w/e were being dropped. So I just explained in chat that one should either blast on group, or don't do kitten; and that magically worked. Much better than screaming at people I think. Of course, it's easy to be frustrated and I do get pissed when non-pugs are acting dumb, but it's still important to keep that be a minimum. Nobody likes that moron in pvp that spends half their match berating teammates (and are probably dragging the team down), so same applies here.

    Btw, don't tell me what to do! I will use rams on guards instead of doors cuz that's the way I want to play. Anyone that tells me otherwise is toXIc! ;)

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    are minion manceers and core mesmers welcome in fractals? no

    this may surprise you, but just like pve has an unwritten ruleset and meta..the wvw community over the years have also formed one.

    somrthings just work better then others, now go and play your soulbeast in a roaming/havoc/scouting role

    tell the squad you are a scout, and you will get an invite, and keep getting invites if u do your job properly. u get shared particaption, and you get appreciated

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    tell the squad you are a scout, and you will get an invite, and keep getting invites if u do your job properly. u get shared particaption, and you get appreciated

    I havent seen a commander do shared participation for like a year.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    tell the squad you are a scout, and you will get an invite, and keep getting invites if u do your job properly. u get shared particaption, and you get appreciated

    I havent seen a commander do shared participation for like a year.

    daily

    when u hop borders and some of ure squad is in q..shared partipation
    when u hop borders and u need eyes on another border, shared particpation + gold

  • Woof.8246Woof.8246 Member ✭✭

    @Princ.3598 said:

    The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

    It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

    EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Yeah theres the problem that buffs/Blasting in healing waters(aoe heal) priotorize your partymembers first , rather than randoms .

    Maybe joing the commander icon , by default the system puts you into a subgroup , where if its different classes (comander can rearange it) every1 get sme extra buffs like protection + swiftness .
    While the Commander can organise and put his guildmembers or player he thing he can win the teamfights in the ''main group'' ?

    low budget comedian

  • Excellent Name.9574Excellent Name.9574 Member ✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    Due to the game design any sort of balanced class viability is a pipe dream, that is something Anet will never be able to get right. Unfortunately this invokes the creation of the so called Meta builds, not just in WvW but in any co-op game type like PvP, Raids, Fractals...

    What "commanders" in WvW do not get is that people cherish their freedom and the right to choose whatever they want to play and no ammount of bullying into Meta build will change that.

    The shining example of that approach's downfall is Vabbi. Vabbi comms have been warned by players during the last 1.5 years that "exclusivity" won't work and will backfire sooner or later. I won't name any names but few commanders over there were so thickheaded they could not see it coming if it hit them full frontal...and here we are Vabbi is almost dead WvW wise, players just can't stand playing under those terms and with those kind of people. The sooner the elitists get this the sonner will WvW get better.

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