Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Please make raids 5 man


Recommended Posts

40 person raids are too hard to organize and creates a barrier for entry to the content25 person raids are too hard to organize and creates a barrier for entry to the content10 person raids are too hard to organize and creates a barrier for entry to the content5 person raids are too hard compared to other 5 player content and creates a barrier for entry to the contentRaids are too easy and can be completed solo, which creates a lack of interest in the content

-- The Evolution of Raiding, from 1999 to the near future

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Yes, this is also the only MMO on the planet where you can do the entire story, open world and general non challenging regular content by simply pressing 1.

When you have this casual of a basic approach and 0 practice on how to play your class, then training groups become a necessity.

This MMO has the hardest open world on the market atm. Every other MMO I cannot die open world no matter what, it's very easy to die open world in this game.

It also has the hardest solo story missions. I cannot fail or die in other MMO's solo story but I can easily die in this games against the bosses.

"""""""""""Training groups""""""""""" are absolutely not needed for ANY raid boss in this game. A basic normal human being will learn every bosses mechanics in 2 pulls MAX.

Notice how there wasn't 5 man dungeon training groups and have never been fractal ones? Training groups are insulting to a normal video game/mmo player.

Sorry, but if you can't deal with this games open world, you are far from being in any way useful in group content. Suffice to say, any person who spent any time in honing their skills or even understanding their class and build has zero issue in any of this games open world content or story missions.

That is exactly the reason why training groups and practice are required. The gap between players who understand even the most basic fundamentals and game mechanics and those who don't is huge.

Unfortunately the game does a bad job at explaining and teaching the players (which is also rooted in its non trinity design). Hence there is a lot of players who think they are way better at the game than they really are.

False equivalency on dungeons and death. In most other MMOs people start outgearing open world content while leveling. Obviously the death rate while being X amount of power levels above should be less. Dungeons had VERY strict restrictions in place on which classes were accepted and in general runs would swing in all directions as far as performance. Some runs would be smooth as butter, others people would disband or take ages. That is with dungeons being truly not challenging but rather 1 gimmick fights and exploitable beyond belief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't die open world, I said I can easily die open world in this game. I literally cannot die in other MMO's open worlds even if I go afk for 5 minutes with mobs wailing on me.

It's very easy to die/fail in this games open world and story missions(mainly bosses), something that's nearly impossible even while AFK in other MMORPG's.

That means this games open world and story content is the hardest on the market.

But of course, immediately to insults and flaming from MULTIPLE people, actually hilarious tbh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shiyo.3578 said:I don't die open world, I said I can easily die open world in this game. I literally cannot die in other MMO's open worlds even if I go afk for 5 minutes with mobs wailing on me.

It's very easy to die/fail in this games open world and story missions(mainly bosses), something that's nearly impossible even while AFK in other MMORPG's.

That means this games open world and story content is the hardest on the market.

But of course, immediately to insults and flaming from MULTIPLE people, actually hilarious tbh.

I've explained how this is untrue and how this comparison is off. This game does not allow players to out scale content as hard as other games. That only means it does not allow you to trivialize content. Not trivializing content on the bottom end =/= game is hard. It simply means the game does not become boredom easy (even though all open world content is balanced around rare gear, HoT and PoF content around exotic gear, which still allows for serious outgearing with ascended gear).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shiyo.3578 said:I don't die open world, I said I can easily die open world in this game. I literally cannot die in other MMO's open worlds even if I go afk for 5 minutes with mobs wailing on me.Now try to do the same while having the level (and gear) appropriate to the area.

Yes, GW2 doesn't allow you to outgear content to the point where all danger disappears. It doesn't mean however that the content itself becomes harder. Only, that it always remains relevant.

It's very easy to die/fail in this games open world and story missions(mainly bosses), something that's nearly impossible even while AFK in other MMORPG's.The bolded part is patently untrue. Try to play FFXIV for example.

That means this games open world and story content is the hardest on the market.It would mean that only if your premise was true. Which it isn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Shiyo.3578" said:I don't die open world, I said I can easily die open world in this game. I literally cannot die in other MMO's open worlds even if I go afk for 5 minutes with mobs wailing on me.

It's very easy to die/fail in this games open world and story missions(mainly bosses), something that's nearly impossible even while AFK in other MMORPG's.

That means this games open world and story content is the hardest on the market.

But of course, immediately to insults and flaming from MULTIPLE people, actually hilarious tbh.

lol story hard, i think the only "hard" one is in hot for the migraine achievement,and even that i managed to do alone.

i believe you were overestimating your abilities, and the game showed you otherwise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can think of one massive con ... it's a whole new set of content Anet would need to make. I think that right there would kill it.

People that raid don't think there are frequent enough releases already ... how realistic is it to expect Anet to develop fracs, 10 man AND 5 man raids? Not likely IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Story instances must be extremly hard here when i completed first instance of hot story with starting lvl 1 gear without getting downed.Considering that you don't need to fight in that instance, that's hardly surprising.

You dont need to fight in any story instance since i would hardly call that fighting

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO there are 3 main reasons LFG is less active than a year+ ago.

1) Most active raiders are in statics or use group discord servers where they know people, so they don't tend to put an lfg up.

2) A decent amount of raiders are on a temporary break because the content is not released fast enough for how easy w6 was, even cm's on that boss were WAY to easy and I find less problems on qadim than on stuff like xera/dhuum.

3) FAKE linkers and bad pugs, I've been pugging quite a bit and the amount of people that are just bad for their "exp lvl". BS's that refuse to do backwarg or cannon on sab, players not responding if you ask them something, playing not viable classes on certain bosses, condi on kc/gemstone, chrono's that run gs as secondary weapon and give no boons as support. LFG'ing is imo below 50% to kill a boss at 250li if you trust people that link once or slow. It's so bad that the other day I saw someone advertising a site that generates fake kp/li and it's a shame a lot of people use this because they're to entitled to join groups they belong in skillwise.

as for making it 5man, no if i wanna do 5 man content I'll do fractals. Raids is only thing that keeps me playing so if they'd make it 5man I'd instantly quit the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shrugs Perhaps raid participation is declining because casuals like me have stubenly given up on raiding and experienced raiders are either moving on or unwilling to risk unoptimal clears with noobs because of some baby boomer 'I did it, so can you' logic.

If you don't have a premade raid group set up or can't find a group active durring your alotted playtime, you're either sunk or forced to link fake KP to appease the PuG's. Even if you have the time, raids are intimidating as hell because salty runs are discussed more openly than 'the time we wiped 10 times at VG but had a blast regardless since everyone was so patient and fun!'

I dunno, the feel of the raid community feels different from the rest of the game. If you mess up in dungeons, usually someone will take charge, throw a few jokes around and explain what went wrong (so long as you don't join an 80 exp idiot run). In raids, Squad leaders just lynch the weakest link, if people don't just outright chain-quit after a single failed run.

Could this be fixed by making this 5 man content? Maybe? I mean, it should make finding an off hour casual group easier at least.

That's my experience anyway. Your milage may vary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Westenev.5289" said:shrugs Perhaps raid participation is declining because casuals like me have stubenly given up on raiding and experienced raiders are either moving on or unwilling to risk unoptimal clears with noobs because of some baby boomer 'I did it, so can you' logic.

If you don't have a premade raid group set up or can't find a group active durring your alotted playtime, you're either sunk or forced to link fake KP to appease the PuG's. Even if you have the time, raids are intimidating as hell because salty runs are discussed more openly than 'the time we wiped 10 times at VG but had a blast regardless since everyone was so patient and fun!'

I dunno, the feel of the raid community feels different from the rest of the game. If you mess up in dungeons, usually someone will take charge, throw a few jokes around and explain what went wrong (so long as you don't join an 80 exp idiot run). In raids, Squad leaders just lynch the weakest link, if people don't just outright chain-quit after a single failed run.

Could this be fixed by making this 5 man content? Maybe? I mean, it should make finding an off hour casual group easier at least.

That's my experience anyway. Your milage may vary.

Except it's more like "I did it, I left a bunch of notes, videos, builds, and built training communities so that future generations can also succeed." There just seems to be a lack of willingness to digest said artifacts and insistance on joining pugs with requirements beyond their level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imo the problem raids have in this game:

  1. No easy mod , with bit less damage or/and 1,2 boss mech removed, nerfed and reduced reward. Where people can go at own time, pug with people of same skill and learn mech.
  2. Raids aren't seasonal, vets know old raids, most of them don't have time to train new players. In seasonal games, new patch brings new instanced content and everyone is the same (new to that) go try their best to learn, starting from easy mod.

If you ask me 5 man won't solve this, Maybe 12-14 man would? 5 men would be need to nerf so much that those bosses would became a joke, really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@phs.6089 said:Imo the problem raids have in this game:

  1. No easy mod , with bit less damage or/and 1,2 boss mech removed, nerfed and reduced reward. Where people can go at own time, pug with people of same skill and learn mech.
  2. Raids aren't seasonal, vets know old raids, most of them don't have time to train new players. In seasonal games, new patch brings new instanced content and everyone is the same (new to that) go try their best to learn, starting from easy mod.

If you ask me 5 man won't solve this, Maybe 12-14 man would? 5 men would be need to nerf so much that those bosses would became a joke, really.

  1. Remove mechanics so people can learn mechanics? This has been discussed for years now. This does not work und only acts as a tourist mode. You can't learn mechanics that are not present.

  2. No. This is one of the worst things ever happened to MMOs and one of the best things in GW2. Almost all content stays relevant the whole time. Also people don't start in easy mode when a new raid gets release. Easy mode comes weeks after the initial release. And in other groups you don't get accepted either in new raids with zero raid experience unless LFR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Imo the problem raids have in this game:
  1. No easy mod , with bit less damage or/and 1,2 boss mech removed, nerfed and reduced reward. Where people can go at own time, pug with people of same skill and learn mech.
  2. Raids aren't seasonal, vets know old raids, most of them don't have time to train new players. In seasonal games, new patch brings new instanced content and everyone is the same (new to that) go try their best to learn, starting from easy mod.

If you ask me 5 man won't solve this, Maybe 12-14 man would? 5 men would be need to nerf so much that those bosses would became a joke, really.
  1. Remove mechanics so people can learn mechanics? This has been discussed for years now. This does not work und only acts as a tourist mode. You can't learn mechanics that are not present.
  2. No. This is one of the worst things ever happened to MMOs and one of the best things in GW2. Almost all content stays relevant the whole time. Also people don't start in easy mode when a new raid gets release. Easy mode comes weeks after the initial release. And in other groups you don't get accepted either in new raids with zero raid experience unless LFR.

1.No remove 1 mech that makes fight harder for newcommers, eg. teleports from VG.2.It isn't imo, it leads to stagnation. I never played LFR. Other games I played that had seasonal of instanced content, from day 1 to 2-3 weeks after LFG was full of 'training runs'. That wasn't mean people that had no knowledge of the class they play, reasonable gear etc woudn't get kicked. That mean only one thing, lets go learn new instance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple solution to increasing raid participation:

  1. Remove all enrage/auto-fail timers. This allows for much more variance in composition, reduces kick rates, and is much more in-line with GW2's design philosophy.
  2. Make the standard (non-CM) fights slightly easier. In particular, remove boss spells that apply responsibility randomly (Sabetha launch bombs, for example). Random responsibility means that 100% of the group needs to know the fight and be good. This, along with the enrage timers, are the causes of raid gate-keeping/elitism.
  3. To make up for the easier non-CM fights, make the CM versions slightly more difficult and increase their rewards somewhat (triple gold, 20% more raid currency).

Solved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Westenev.5289 said:shrugs Perhaps raid participation is declining because casuals like me have stubenly given up on raiding and experienced raiders are either moving on or unwilling to risk unoptimal clears with noobs because of some baby boomer 'I did it, so can you' logic.

If you don't have a premade raid group set up or can't find a group active durring your alotted playtime, you're either sunk or forced to link fake KP to appease the PuG's. Even if you have the time, raids are intimidating as hell because salty runs are discussed more openly than 'the time we wiped 10 times at VG but had a blast regardless since everyone was so patient and fun!'

I dunno, the feel of the raid community feels different from the rest of the game. If you mess up in dungeons, usually someone will take charge, throw a few jokes around and explain what went wrong (so long as you don't join an 80 exp idiot run). In raids, Squad leaders just lynch the weakest link, if people don't just outright chain-quit after a single failed run.

Could this be fixed by making this 5 man content? Maybe? I mean, it should make finding an off hour casual group easier at least.

That's my experience anyway. Your milage may vary.

Except with noobs unoptimal clears becomes no clear at all and just hours of wiping most of the time. Its not really baby boomer logic to say 'i spent a minimal amount of time to learn the mechanics and my class and i want others to do the same, so they dont waste hours of my time'. Anyone with even a semi real life outside game just doesnt have the time to become a full time raid trainer and teach every single person who joins a group, and they shouldnt have to sacrifice their own rewards every week and be forced into that. Especially since the individual can learn everything they need just from watching vids or reaching a class guide.

Plenty of people are willing to help out train in the free time they do have available, but you have to actively look for them. Dungeons are so easy you can solo them, so even if people play awful, they can be carried through. Raids are, by design, more difficult and you need at least most of the squad to pull their weight in order to succeed. Again, this is by design and doesnt need fixing.

As someone who has been raiding around 1 yr, I never have a problem getting into clears with my unoptimal build engie (nokit) and have never been kicked from even 500LI groups or 100kp dhuum groups for my performance. I also see groups accept people who are new to a specific boss but have read the mechanics and can play their class well. Again, even in 500LI groups. The problem is not willingness to accept newbies, but new people honestly not knowing a single thing about how their class works in a group setting, and then expecting other people to give their time explaining how to play the game to them, rather than learn themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@gateless gate.8406 said:Simple solution to increasing raid participation:

  1. Remove all enrage/auto-fail timers. This allows for much more variance in composition, reduces kick rates, and is much more in-line with GW2's design philosophy.
  2. Make the standard (non-CM) fights slightly easier. In particular, remove boss spells that apply responsibility randomly (Sabetha launch bombs, for example). Random responsibility means that 100% of the group needs to know the fight and be good. This, along with the enrage timers, are the causes of raid gate-keeping/elitism.
  3. To make up for the easier non-CM fights, make the CM versions slightly more difficult and increase their rewards somewhat (triple gold, 20% more raid currency).

Solved.

  1. Enrage timers are so generous that no one even reaches them in their kills. You can already kill bosses within timer on dozens of non meta builds and there would still be people who want safe and fast clears, regardless of timers.
  2. There's tons of trivial content in game, gw2 doesn't need more of it. It's the reason why open world events fail (TT, serpent ire), no one is expected to do anything, just mash buttons and things eventually die. Raids don't need to be like that, dungeons exist already.
  3. Improved CM rewards mean nothing if they are a one time thing.

You didn't solve anything, you just proved how lazy, bad and greedy gw2 community is. Play 10 necros and raids will be easy to clear, the class is strong and forgiving enough to clear all content in the game. It even has enough boon+barrier uptime to not care about half mechanics.

Just because lfg and websites promote meta builds doesn't mean that you have to join such groups and play such builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@phs.6089 said:

@phs.6089 said:Imo the problem raids have in this game:
  1. No easy mod , with bit less damage or/and 1,2 boss mech removed, nerfed and reduced reward. Where people can go at own time, pug with people of same skill and learn mech.
  2. Raids aren't seasonal, vets know old raids, most of them don't have time to train new players. In seasonal games, new patch brings new instanced content and everyone is the same (new to that) go try their best to learn, starting from easy mod.

If you ask me 5 man won't solve this, Maybe 12-14 man would? 5 men would be need to nerf so much that those bosses would became a joke, really.
  1. Remove mechanics so people can learn mechanics? This has been discussed for years now. This does not work und only acts as a tourist mode. You can't learn mechanics that are not present.
  2. No. This is one of the worst things ever happened to MMOs and one of the best things in GW2. Almost all content stays relevant the whole time. Also people don't start in easy mode when a new raid gets release. Easy mode comes weeks after the initial release. And in other groups you don't get accepted either in new raids with zero raid experience unless LFR.

1.No remove 1 mech that makes fight harder for newcommers, eg. teleports from VG.

Who gets to decide which mechanics should get removed? Teleports on VG for example are being healed through even on the lowest skill levels. The fight would change barely with that change for example. Many mechanics unfold their challenge exactly due to their interaction.

@phs.6089 said:2.It isn't imo, it leads to stagnation. I never played LFR. Other games I played that had seasonal of instanced content, from day 1 to 2-3 weeks after LFG was full of 'training runs'. That wasn't mean people that had no knowledge of the class they play, reasonable gear etc woudn't get kicked. That mean only one thing, lets go learn new instance.

Yes, and people run those seasonal raids for the gear they bring. One they have all the gear, the participation drops again. See the problem? Beside the obvious more developers needed for more raid content?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...