Please make f2p accounts unable to play in competitive modes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Please make f2p accounts unable to play in competitive modes

What the title says. People make multiple f2p accounts, use various tools to lessen the fun of others who try to play legitimately in said modes. I firmly believe WvW and sPvP should be unavilable to those accounts, as even when caught red-handed, they can simply make another f2p and keep doing what they do. Banning WILL hurt if they pay for an account, making em think twice before using means prohibited by the ToS.

Comments

  • @Klipso.8653 said:
    We aren't allowed to talk about cheaters here, we're supposed to pretend they dont exist

    On the contrary, there are plenty of threads that discuss issues plaguing competitive modes, including cheats.

    What isn't allowed: naming names or discussing details. The first leads to arguments and derailed discussions and "I know you are but what am I" levels of discourse, and in the end, only ANet's decision matters about whether it is or isn't cheating. The second runs the risk of encouraging more cheating.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So what about f2p accounts that are not troll/spy accounts?

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Please make f2p accounts unable to play in competitive modes
    People make multiple f2p accounts, use various tools to lessen the fun of others who try to play legitimately in said modes. I firmly believe WvW and sPvP should be unavilable to those accounts, as even when caught red-handed, they can simply make another f2p and keep doing what they do. Banning WILL hurt if they pay for an account, making em think twice before using means prohibited by the ToS.

    Competitive modes are open to F2P in part to increase the numbers. PvP in particular suffers from insufficient competition in certain areas, at certain times; including non-paying accounts helped address that. The question is: what fraction of F2P accounts play legit and at what threshold does it become time for a change?

    In contrast, F2P cannot join WvW until level 60. Without specific evidence, I think it's a weak case to say that it's more than an all-too-visible handful, i.e. that the vast majority of F2P in WvW are probably playing legit.

    Perhaps it would be worth changing the restrictions on sPvP, perhaps require a minimum PvP rank of X (earned in unranked?).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    So what about f2p accounts that are not troll/spy accounts?

    Let them play unranked? Or put rather high reqs in spvp lvls and maybe being lvl capped for wvw.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    The thing is, you can have certain restrictions. Do eotm till wvw rank 100 (random number) and unranked till a certain level, too. That will deter most illegitimate players.

    WvW already restricts characters to minimum level 60. Do you really think that WvW r100 is going to discourage those who already got that far? Isn't it more likely to discourage legit F2P from trying WvW?

    I agree that ANet should reconsider adding similar restrictions for sPvP (and if they already have, perhaps it would be wise of them to explain their reasons for not implementing any yet).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    As stated, there is already a restriction to get into WvW since they must first reach level 60. Their is also a restriction for Ranked sPvP, since they must be rank 20 before they can start playing ranked games. Now whether or not that restriction is high enough, I don't know. I really can't say how much time is required at this point to reach rank 20.

    Doc Von Doom

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    As stated, there is already a restriction to get into WvW since they must first reach level 60. Their is also a restriction for Ranked sPvP, since they must be rank 20 before they can start playing ranked games. Now whether or not that restriction is high enough, I don't know. I really can't say how much time is required at this point to reach rank 20.

    level restrictions are kind of a joke as leveling in this game is extremely easy to do.
    If they want meaningful restrictions they need to lock it behind gameplay hours. The kicker is they don't want meaningful restrictions.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Other than ranked spvp, I don't agree with the OP.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    So what about f2p accounts that are not troll/spy accounts?

    Let them play unranked? Or put rather high reqs in spvp lvls and maybe being lvl capped for wvw.

    i can agree on unranked pvp, since core rangers and engis can ruin someones competetive game, but not for wvw. but forcing them to grind certain lvl on eotm first might me good idea

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭

    I might be wrong but I don't think they'd do that. What better way to showcase the benefits of having an elite spec in a competitive environment than having you joining it yourself with your core f2p build?

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    As stated, there is already a restriction to get into WvW since they must first reach level 60. Their is also a restriction for Ranked sPvP, since they must be rank 20 before they can start playing ranked games. Now whether or not that restriction is high enough, I don't know. I really can't say how much time is required at this point to reach rank 20.

    level restrictions are kind of a joke as leveling in this game is extremely easy to do.
    If they want meaningful restrictions they need to lock it behind gameplay hours. The kicker is they don't want meaningful restrictions.

    Leveling your first character on a brand new account though is still a chore. It is a pretty sufficient gateway. Asking for anymore of a gateway is just petty and is more discouraging to new players that are legitimately interested in the game.

    Doc Von Doom

  • ArmoredVehicle.2849ArmoredVehicle.2849 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    Let me just say this, I play a F2P account and I participate in both sPvP (of which I'm level 80) and WvW, especially the latter. Blocking access to such game modes is not an ideal solution.

    I would however be in favor of a constructive way to lessen the rate of cheaters.

  • @Rabbi Rick.3194 said:
    I sort; of agree with this -- F2P accounts should only be allowed in unranked PvP and EotM. That way, they would be able to experience the "flavor" of competitive modes without affecting the players that pay.

    At first I was going to disagree entirely because I take new players with F2P accounts to Heart of the Mists PvP to train and teach them combat but only allowing them to play unranked PvP and EotM seems fair to me. As long as they are allowed in HotM, I personally don't care because I need them to be able to go there to teach them combat early so they can get a taste of the game and most of the people if not all that I trained bought the game because of it.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always found it odd how F2p got access to wvw and pvp before level 80... but it's not like wvw has an influx of upscaled level 60's, trash talking or otherwise, so who cares?

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The trouble with restricting f2p accounts to EotM is it would give them the perception that wvw is even less populated than it actually is . . .

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @coso.9173 said:
    wow, no. I don't pvp but this is an awful idea. many f2p honest players don't have to pay for the actions of others.
    Maybe if we find a cheater from your country we should also ban everyone from your country too? since we're making terible generalizations.

    Thats how the world handles terrorism lol

    Also PvP in this game is rigged by all the top players using alt accounts to win trade, so much so that the leaderboards have actually become a joke and even players who earn thier way to the top are stained with win trade accusations.
    To make matters worse, its a common practice for a top player to fill multiple top spots using alt accounts.

    My opinion is that F2P should not be allowed to play ranked at all. That should be a privelage reserved for the paying players.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    preventing 2 clients to be run on the same pc at the same time would also fix this. and no one would be banned from pvp or WvW.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    Keep in mind that paid accounts can be refunded within 30 days, so if someone wants to continuously do something, they can just keep buying and refunding accounts. ArenaNet's crazy KFT promotion also gave people up to 10 accounts per IP (~3 per computer signature), so anyone that wanted a few paid accounts for free certainly got them.

    @coso.9173 said:
    preventing 2 clients to be run on the same pc at the same time would also fix this. and no one would be banned from pvp or WvW.

    They can make it harder to do, but it's impossible to actually prevent. If they were going to do something drastic, they'd just split free and paid accounts into their own separate leagues, but even this would ultimately be a placebo and only make it less populated.

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always said they should limit F2P access to Unranked for sPvP and Edge of the Mists for WvW.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Healix.5819 said:

    They can make it harder to do, but it's impossible to actually prevent. If they were going to do something drastic, they'd just split free and paid accounts into their own separate leagues, but even this would ultimately be a placebo and only make it less populated.

    I've been thinking about this idea of splitting f2p from the paid account, and have them play separated for a day now. And the more I think about it, the more I want it. I'd absolutely love to play f2p only, and finally get rid of all the powercreep, 4stats, hot runes, elite specializations, and just go back to good old core (despite whatever flaws it picked up by now).

    I mean, I know it's both sad and bad, but heck do I want it!

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Planescape Torment, Divinity Original Sin 2, Zelda BotW

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @coso.9173 said:
    preventing 2 clients to be run on the same pc at the same time would also fix this. and no one would be banned from pvp or WvW.

    Virtual machines appear to be on different PCs even though they're not, and are relatively easy to set up (there are legitimate business uses for these). Additionally, it's not that uncommon for people to have access to more than one machine.

    @Healix.5819 said:
    Keep in mind that paid accounts can be refunded within 30 days, so if someone wants to continuously do something, they can just keep buying and refunding accounts.

    I think ANet's payment provider might blacklist players for doing this. Using multiple credit cards from the same IP is also going to be a red flag for fraud detection.

  • neoteo.3975neoteo.3975 Member ✭✭

    Same ip is easy to solve with vpn, i agree with Op here, those demo accounts should not be able to do competitive game play, pvp is for experienced players anyway, why give end game content for free?

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Completely agree with ProverbsofHell.2307

    If they enjoy unranked pvp that much and wanna compete ranked then buy the full game. Same with killing players in eotm then just buy full acc for WvW... at least with actual $$$ they'd be less likely to go ahead and get acc banned.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Well letting people que ranked on F2P circumvents a lot of the restrictions, the pvp rewards might not be the best time vs money, but they are quite good you get some ascended gear some gold ( which is not tied to anything, it is pure, no buy sell orders, just big chunk of gold). Those that are not doing it for the farm are setting them selves for great struggle, for one they have to play limited viable builds, and who knows they will survive the next meta shift, the other issue is that there is a big chance they will get rolled over by some new cheesy builds and ruin the game for the rest 9 people. On the other side we might get someone that is that good with core that he doesn't need to buy the game for pvp.
    For WvW maybe let F2P people on the borderland owned by the world.
    Don't forget the people that own the core game and didn't upgrade, they are free on whatever.
    The F2P is a big tutorial ( need some polish on the ramp up of the difficulty since it is a flat line right now) pretty generous if i might say. All and all buy the game it is good and it is half price of most games and it goes on sale a lot of the time.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @coso.9173 said:
    wow, no. I don't pvp but this is an awful idea. many f2p honest players don't have to pay for the actions of others.
    Maybe if we find a cheater from your country we should also ban everyone from your country too? since we're making terible generalizations.

    Do you really think that people who play for free are in any way comparable to entire nations? Do you really think that discrimination based on paying model is same as dicsrimation based on nationality? Short answer to both is: no. And pls dont make slippery slopers like this.

    I am all in favour of restricting them to unranked since as op states, f2p players dont have the sam accountability as payed players. So why should they get the same benefits? Another reason is lack of elite-specs which is legitimate issue for some professions.

    Although to be fair i would be more in favour of locking ranked behind certain amount of played games instead of flat prohibition.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @Aaralyna.3104 said:
    When it comes to bans... they could just ban the ip the banned player uses (or mac adress or something). Then it won't even matter how many free accounts they make as they simply will not be able to connect as starter.

    That's one horrible practice which doesn't work at all. What will happen in most cases is those players just changing their ip address to another one, while their banned ip may easily get allocated to a legitimate player next time, which will have then to go through all the hassles of proving he is not the same guy who was banned before.
    FTP users just don't belong to competitive modes, too easy to spam accounts to abuse game mechanics. Yes, it's not nice to exclude them, but real-world solutions which actually work are rarely nice anyway. The world is harsh and ugly, thus solutions are as well, can't be helped. Anybody owning a gaming computer and internet connection can afford buying a DLC for 15-30$, if they want to get access to ranked PvP and WvW, it's not an issue.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    Am i missing something? I don't see anyone saying why ftp players should be banned from competitive modes. What'[s the big deal- if they're doing the same things that 'paid' accts do and you don't like it, either put up or shut up imo. If a 'paid' acct is doing shenaningans to fill leaderboards or whatever, it's hypocritical of you to want to ban ftp accts for doing the same thing. Fill me in.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Funky.4861 said:
    If a 'paid' acct is doing shenaningans to fill leaderboards or whatever, it's hypocritical of you to want to ban ftp accts for doing the same thing. Fill me in.

    It's about reducing the scale, not about completely preventing something. There is no total security, there are different levels, the tighter it is, the more effort you need to circumvent it - the less people will even try, or be able to break it. The mere fact it can't be prevented doesn't mean we don't need to act to minimize number of those who abuses mechanics drastically. And this means prohibit FTP accounts from participating in any competitive mode, as they are too easy to produce in numbers and replace even if banned. Mere fact you can lose an account you paid 15-30$ for already will stop majority of people thinking about breaking EULA, and even if they will decide to risk it, still very few are able to mass-spawn paid accounts like you can mass-spawn FTP ones, thus it will result in much more healthy competitive environment.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at least upping the reqs would be a good idea imo.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    F2P would still be able to WvW and sPvP, just not ranked sPvP, If you're worried about them having a bad experience in sPvP then you haven't tried to play a non-elite spec lately.

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • Steve The Cynic.3217Steve The Cynic.3217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aaralyna.3104 said:
    I am actually against this idea. I don't like the exclusion of f2p players in game modes (read full core game incl spvp/wvw/pve). Most players play without cheating and theres only a few bad apples. When it comes to bans... they could just ban the ip the banned player uses (or mac adress or something). Then it won't even matter how many free accounts they make as they simply will not be able to connect as starter. Also, everyone should be able to play any build they like, be it core or spec, be it meta or not. Its just a game....

    IP bans? Do you want to find yourself barred from PvP / WvW because your city had a power cut, and when the power came back, your router got an IP address that had previously been assigned to an IP-banned cheater who lives across town? IP bans have never been effective against consumer ISP service, and the rise of carrier-grade NAT (where the NAT on your router is hidden behind more NAT in your ISP's network) just makes it more likely that you'll get barred by such a ban, even without the power cut. To avoid a MAC address ban, all I have to do is buy a new network card.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • DragonSlayer.1087DragonSlayer.1087 Member ✭✭✭

    I see a lot of different opinions regarding this topic. It’s so tricky to implement something restrictive to f2p players but I feel like they’re not doing enough to punish trolls especially in wvw. For ex, we keep seeing this one person that trolls the current tag in the map by tagging up and confusing other players. We try to report this person but he just keeps showing up with new accounts. His previous accounts would get blocked but then he would appear again, doing the same thing.

  • Blue.1207Blue.1207 Member ✭✭✭

    Ahahaha good joke. The top 10 in the leaderboards for the last 13 seasons have been the biggest bunch of wintrading ToS breakers in the game. Free accounts have absolutely nothing on them.

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    Want full access--purchase the game other wise exclude f2p from ranked

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klipso.8653 said:
    I like the idea of letting them play unranked but not season games

    Good luck filling those queues... It's already struggling...

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    It would be horrible for population.

    I would instead give them the least priority in queue times in WvW, being allowed to enter the Mist War maps only if there's no unrestricted players waiting, and give them 10 times more dishonor on PvP infractions.

    The report system needs some tweaks too, clarifying how to use it and what to choose to report a player.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    F2P accounts are crippled enough as they are. Therefore, I do not agree with this suggestion.
    If ArenaNet wants to go in this direction, they should be very clear about these huge limitations and not call it F2P but something like a time-unlimited PVE demo version of the game. Now they're on the route of F2P with optional gemstore sales.

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