Anet let us have the ability to equip tree specific weapons at any time once the tree is unlocked!

[Kickpuncher.8109]

For example once you fully unlock the firebrand tree you would be allowed to put on an axe on a guardian at any time, not only when you are specced into firebrand.

I think this would allow for more build diversity and some sweet mixing and matching.

Let a mesmer use a shield while in mirage stance, let a thief use a rifle as a daredevil, etc etc.

I think it would be fun and easy to implement, I assume they would only need to activate the flag enabling the weapon equipped once the tree is fully unlocked instead of when the tree is equipped.

I wanna use a longbow as a firebrand....

What do y'all think?

[Zexanima.7851]

@Kickpuncher.8109 said:For example once you fully unlock the firebrand tree you would be allowed to put on an axe on a guardian at any time, not only when you are specced into firebrand.

I think this would allow for more build diversity and some sweet mixing and matching.

Let a mesmer use a shield while in mirage stance, let a thief use a rifle as a daredevil, etc etc.

I think it would be fun and easy to implement, I assume they would only need to activate the flag enabling the weapon equipped once the tree is fully unlocked instead of when the tree is equipped.

I wanna use a longbow as a firebrand....

What do y'all think?

While I do think it would be crazy fun it would also probably be crazy game breaking. There are probably lots of assumptions in the code and in how they have they game balanced that assume those weapons are useable when you have that spec slotted. In order for it to 'work' they would probably only need to flip a couple flags but then they would probably have a ton of bugs pop up and a plethora of unexpected balance changes they would need to consider.

[Cyndercat.7615]

No. It would create a huge balance mess and make the game worse overall.

[Kickpuncher.8109]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Kickpuncher.8109 said:For example once you fully unlock the firebrand tree you would be allowed to put on an axe on a guardian at any time, not only when you are specced into firebrand.

I think this would allow for more build diversity and some sweet mixing and matching.

Let a mesmer use a shield while in mirage stance, let a thief use a rifle as a daredevil, etc etc.

I think it would be fun and easy to implement, I assume they would only need to activate the flag enabling the weapon equipped once the tree is fully unlocked instead of when the tree is equipped.

I wanna use a longbow as a firebrand....

What do y'all think?

While I do think it would be crazy fun it would also probably be crazy game breaking. There are probably lots of assumptions in the code and in how they have they game balanced that assume those weapons are useable when you have that spec slotted. In order for it to 'work' they would probably only need to flip a couple flags but then they would probably have a ton of bugs pop up and a plethora of unexpected balance changes they would need to consider.

Maybe, but I still think the idea of the implementation would allow for more expression on character builds, could be super hard to implement or not very hard at all. I dunno, but that is a good point.

[Randulf.7614]

Indeed, the system works fine as is - you go all in or all out. That is the fundamental design principle for especs and it works.

Plus they would have to remove the minor trait from espec and design a new trait for every spec. Not monumental, but also not a quick and easy change either.

[Genuinetheo.6591]

I think the current system works well enough that it doesn't need to add something as crazy and out of sync as this

[Healix.5819]

The current implementation allows them to easily reuse the same set of weapons infinitely. They could still do that if they opened it, it'd just mean having to additionally select which variant of weapon abilities you wanted. Additionally, if they opened it, expect them to do something like increase the cooldown of the weapon skills by 30%, then reduce it by that much when using the spec.

[Obtena.7952]

Gonna say no ... the weapons unique to especs are part of their flavour. No reason to diminish that.

[kasoki.5180]

If they can design it in a way that is balanced I am all in favour. But that is a big if.

[Zephire.8049]

Nope. It would make balancing an issue and one of the reasons why skills were locked to weapons in the first place was to cut down on balance issues. Weapons are also one of the selling points of elite specs and synergizes with their new function skills and trait line, as well as having different lore reasons explaining why not all in a broad profession can use certain weapons.

To use your example of firebrand, firebrands study the past and are magic users who fight close combat and also use their skills and knowledge to protect allies. Dragonhunters, on the other hand, came about as a profession due to the dragon menace and they're essentially a magical huntsman who uses bows. It makes no sense for someone used to books to know how to use a longbow, nor for a hunter to know how to conjure magic from books.

The Commander is skilled at many things but being a prodigy that can learn all is not one of them.

But again, leaving all lore reasons aside, it would be an utter nightmare to balance and certain weapons would have to get modified skills because they add/use resources that only the elite spec has access to. Either they have to be changed/buff to work without, say, malice, or nothing is changed so they're not worth using outside of roleplaying (and then you can just switch your third trait as needed).

Guild Wars 1 had 1319 skills that could all interact with each other and it was an utter nightmare to balance. What you're asking for isn't so large, but it's still 80 skills that were only supposed to interact with 2 non-elite traits at a time.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Maybe they could, but if you don’t have the tree equipped then you shouldn’t get any of the perks. That would mean it’s basic and underpowered.

[mercury ranique.2170]

@Zephire.8049 said:Nope. It would make balancing an issue and one of the reasons why skills were locked to weapons in the first place was to cut down on balance issues. Weapons are also one of the selling points of elite specs and synergizes with their new function skills and trait line, as well as having different lore reasons explaining why not all in a broad profession can use certain weapons.

To use your example of firebrand, firebrands study the past and are magic users who fight close combat and also use their skills and knowledge to protect allies. Dragonhunters, on the other hand, came about as a profession due to the dragon menace and they're essentially a magical huntsman who uses bows. It makes no sense for someone used to books to know how to use a longbow, nor for a hunter to know how to conjure magic from books.

The Commander is skilled at many things but being a prodigy that can learn all is not one of them.

But again, leaving all lore reasons aside, it would be an utter nightmare to balance and certain weapons would have to get modified skills because they add/use resources that only the elite spec has access to. Either they have to be changed/buff to work without, say, malice, or nothing is changed so they're not worth using outside of roleplaying (and then you can just switch your third trait as needed).

Guild Wars 1 had 1319 skills that could all interact with each other and it was an utter nightmare to balance. What you're asking for isn't so large, but it's still 80 skills that were only supposed to interact with 2 non-elite traits at a time.

I agree and disagree with you. GW1 was a pain to balance, but them again, it was part of the beauty of it. The imbalance also didn't create an uneven playing field as it caused flavour of the month effects. In short it went like this.1: a new powerful build was introduced by a skilled player.2: it was pretty powerful and turned into the flavour of the month.3: people found inventive ways to counter this specific popular build (in PvP)4: if it stayed popular, it was nerfed. Either way it was no longer popular.

I think freedom of builds encourage inventive gameplay. Still it requires easy to gain builds and in PvP it needs to be recognisable what build someone plays (including the traits and armor stats)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The same idea is being discussed on Reddit, with less support:https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/beqqbk/please_anet_let_us_have_the_ability_to_equip_tree/

[sephiroth.4217]

Id prefer the old trait system to be honest..

All traits available but only a certain amount of points to invest... So you could have your wish, spec as a DH but put enough points into FB to unlock the Axe for use.

For me, Id still main Tempest but with Bolt and Incin equipped.

Wishful thinking though

[IndigoSundown.5419]

This request sounds like, "I don't like the opportunity cost of Elite Spec weapons." I would prefer more opportunity costs in the game, not less.

[joneirikb.7506]

@sephiroth.4217 said:Id prefer the old trait system to be honest..

All traits available but only a certain amount of points to invest... So you could have your wish, spec as a DH but put enough points into FB to unlock the Axe for use.

For me, Id still main Tempest but with Bolt and Incin equipped.

Wishful thinking though

Like the idea, but a problem is that both of those trait lines affect the class mechanics (virtues). And probably would do similar weird stuff to the other classes.

[otto.5684]

@Kickpuncher.8109 said:For example once you fully unlock the firebrand tree you would be allowed to put on an axe on a guardian at any time, not only when you are specced into firebrand.

I think this would allow for more build diversity and some sweet mixing and matching.

Let a mesmer use a shield while in mirage stance, let a thief use a rifle as a daredevil, etc etc.

I think it would be fun and easy to implement, I assume they would only need to activate the flag enabling the weapon equipped once the tree is fully unlocked instead of when the tree is equipped.

I wanna use a longbow as a firebrand....

What do y'all think?

Cuz mirage with a shield would be fairly balanced, right? Clearly this is not a good idea.

[Ultramex.1506]

Like the other said, another thing is that if you can use the elite-weapon without that elite spec then it will lose it uniqueness, won't it?

[Westenev.5289]

I don't mind only being able to use a weapon skills with the elite spec active. I just wish it was possible to weapon swap to an elite spec weapon without the elite spec active so I can change weapons from the inventory.

I can't count the times I've changed from the druid or daredevil elite specs with a staff equipped, only to find I can't weaponswap to change my now defunct weapon.

[Skyroar.2974]

I would love this change, and I know of other players who would love it too. It would make professions feel a lot less restricting than what they do now. Imagine a sword/ warhorn elementalist, or an axe guardian without scholarly tomes.

People worried about balance are forgetting an important detail: traits that enhance elite spec weapons are still gated behind elite spec trees. That's a good mechanism that Anet can use to keep those weapons balanced outside of context.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:I would love this change, and I know of other players who would love it too. It would make professions feel a lot less restricting than what they do now. Imagine a sword/ warhorn elementalist, or an axe guardian without scholarly tomes.

People worried about balance are forgetting an important detail: traits that enhance elite spec weapons are still gated behind elite spec trees. That's a good mechanism that Anet can use to keep those weapons balanced outside of context.

Except there is weapons that are absurdly overpowered on their own even without the elite bonuses.

Imagine a Mirage with a shield? Can you say near permanent immunity to damage for the first 30-40 seconds of a fight? Oh and quickness and alacrity on ANY spec.

How about Hammer on Holo? I'm sure that would cause no issues in spvp or wvw.

Firebrand Axe is basically a strait up upgrade to guardian Sword. Power creep galore.

This topic keeps coming up, and the replies will keep being the same: it will never happen. Balance would be near impossible. Any future weapons would exponentially increase this problem. It's not worth it both from a balance headache as well as a work resource perspective.

[phs.6089]

@Westenev.5289 said:I don't mind only being able to use a weapon skills with the elite spec active. I just wish it was possible to weapon swap to an elite spec weapon without the elite spec active so I can change weapons from the inventory.

I can't count the times I've changed from the druid or daredevil elite specs with a staff equipped, only to find I can't weaponswap to change my now defunct weapon.

In equipment, click on the staff-->equipt (other weapon) works for me.

[Skyroar.2974]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

Except there is weapons that are absurdly overpowered on their own even without the elite bonuses.

Imagine a Mirage with a shield? Can you say near permanent immunity to damage for the first 30-40 seconds of a fight? Oh and quickness and alacrity on ANY spec.

How about Hammer on Holo? I'm sure that would cause no issues in spvp or wvw.

Firebrand Axe is basically a strait up upgrade to guardian Sword. Power creep galore.

This topic keeps coming up, and the replies will keep being the same: it will never happen. Balance would be near impossible. Any future weapons would exponentially increase this problem. It's not worth it both from a balance headache as well as a work resource perspective.Maybe weapons should have never been "absolutely overpowered on their own" in the first place? Maybe powercreep is a thing that has already existed for years?

This topic keeps coming up because players love the idea, and it will keep coming up as long as players keep loving the idea. It's that simple. It's not the players' fault that Anet can't find a way to properly balance their own game. It's not players' fault that enjoyability must be sacrificed for the sake of an idealized "balanced state" that has never come to fruition.

"You're not allowed to have fun because balance!" is the same tiring argument that is used against GW1's skill system. Yet, GW2, even with its restrictive and bland system:

1. Has had as much metagame diversity as its predecessor, not more. (Check metabattle vs. pvxwiki.)
2. Has suffered from game-breaking pvp cheese as much - if not more - than GW1 did (Mirage, bunker metas, Zoo metas, etc.)
3. Has suffered from powercreep just like GW1 did, and pretty much for the same reasons (addition of new skills through expansions, constant buffing by accretion: see Dervish and mesmer reworks in GW1 vs. new GW2 elite specs and how Anet buffs old skills/ traits by gradually injecting more and more boons/ conditions/ immunity frames into them).
4. Has had its pvp fail spectacularly - unlike GW1 - and left at its current terrible state, filled with stab spam, immunity spam, one-shotting spam - whatever spammable crap you can think of - that it's no wonder it is dead. And GW1 was going straight into that direction if Anet hadn't abandoned it so soon.

It's very clear by now that the franchise's biggest problem with balance is not the game systems but the way Anet approaches balance. Their "buff by accretion" philosophy, where if a skill is not strong enough, they keep throwing a bunch of additional effects into it to see if they stick, has lead to powercreep. That GW1 and GW2 suffer the same same problems with two drastically distinct skill systems is proof that the systems are not to blame.

So yes, players have not been allowed to have enjoyable skill systems for the sake of a "muh balance!" state that has never existed.

[phs.6089]

Yeah they should have locked every elite to own utility, that will make it easy to balance and let people to have 'fun'

[Cyninja.2954]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

Except there is weapons that are absurdly overpowered on their own even without the elite bonuses.

Imagine a Mirage with a shield? Can you say near permanent immunity to damage for the first 30-40 seconds of a fight? Oh and quickness and alacrity on ANY spec.

How about Hammer on Holo? I'm sure that would cause no issues in spvp or wvw.

Firebrand Axe is basically a strait up upgrade to guardian Sword. Power creep galore.

This topic keeps coming up, and the replies will keep being the same: it will never happen. Balance would be near impossible. Any future weapons would exponentially increase this problem. It's not worth it both from a balance headache as well as a work resource perspective.Maybe weapons should have

never

been "absolutely overpowered on their own" in the first place? Maybe powercreep is a thing that has

already existed

for years?

This topic keeps coming up because players love the idea, and it will keep coming up as long as players keep loving the idea. It's that simple. It's not the players' fault that Anet can't find a way to properly balance their own game. It's not players' fault that enjoyability must be sacrificed for the sake of an idealized "balanced state" that has never come to fruition.

Sure, there is tons of other ideas which keep coming up and which will not see implementation. It's simple math, more weapons and combinations equals harder balance, no matter if locked behind an elite specialization.

Why do you think elite specialization lockouts were designed the way they are in the first place? Balance as is is already impossible.

So yes, players have not been allowed to have enjoyable skill systems for the sake of a "muh balance!" state that has never existed.

Which has nothing to do with weapon availability but rather with balance in MMOs in general. Why else would EVERY single MMO have these issues? Small hint: because the games are not designed for competitive game modes and certainly not with perfect balance in mind.

That doesn't mean though that all reason and common sense need be thrown out the window only because some players 'want' something.

I've ignored most of your GW1 and GW2 rant simply because that all has been covered in the past. Pvp balance is not the only balance of concern in this game (rather it is the least) and pve balance would go out the window just as much.

It's a numbers game as mentioned.