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Upcoming changes to Ranger


Dragana.1497

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Ranger

With this update, druids, who gain a new mode and access to additional abilities by slotting the specialization, get the trade-off of their pet becoming a bit weaker than a core ranger's pet, as their focus on celestial magics means less time strengthening the bond with their pets. At the same time, druid glyphs have been reviewed and brought in line with design standards. Glyph of Empowerment has been replaced by the former druid elite skill, Glyph of Unity, as Glyph of Empowerment was deemed too passive. Glyph of Unity's radius has been reduced to a standard radius (a multiple of 60), and its duration has increased. Finally, we've introduced a new elite skill, Glyph of the Stars, which you can read about in its note below.

  • Nature's Renewal: Added an additional ring visual effect to indicate the range of the toggle skill.
  • Druid: The base attributes of pets have been reduced by 20%.
  • Glyph of Unity: Reduced the radius of this skill from 400 to 360, and increased its duration from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. This skill is no longer an elite skill, and it replaces Glyph of Empowerment.
  • Glyph of Rejuvenation: Increased the healing multiplier across both versions of this skill by 40%. In celestial avatar form, the base healing to the druid and their pet has been increased by 50%. Outside of celestial avatar form, the base healing to allies has been increased by 50%.
  • Glyph of Alignment: Outside of celestial avatar form, this skill no longer inflicts 5 seconds of cripple or 2 stacks of poison for 8 seconds. Instead, it now inflicts 1.5 seconds of immobilization and 3 stacks of bleeding for 8 seconds.
  • Glyph of Empowerment: This skill has been replaced by Glyph of Unity.
  • Glyph of the Stars: This new elite skill heals, prevents allies from being inflicted with conditions, and removes conditions already on allies at range. In celestial avatar form, it heals, prevents downed allies from losing health while being revived, and grants boons at range.
  • Pack Alpha: This trait now grants its attribute bonus to condition damage in addition to the attributes it previously affected.
  • Poison Master: This trait no longer grants poison on the next attack when swapping pets. It now grants this effect upon the use of a beast skill.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74076/balance-changes-upcoming

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Removing Glyph of Empowerment is fine. But Glyph of Unity was rarely worth any spot on your bar for anything else than additional Verdant Etching procs and the occasional healing boost in avatar form. Having it as a regular skill makes it an even harder pick. Betting on a complete overhaul of the skill some patches down the road.

I don't care about the pet attribution changes for druid, as the spec was already pegged down for a pure pve support role a long time ago and any enjoyment I had with it in pvp was killed off a long time ago. But I do find it somewhat funny that one of the worst direct damage core professions gets a further hit to its damage just for picking what is essentially a healer trait line. And that's ignoring the fact that the trait line choice is a trade-off in itself, it's a pretty selfless traitline at this point. Would have made more sense if the pet wasn't abysmal to begin with and ranger weren't already taxed on damage for having pets, considering base ranger has little to offer in the healing department. IOW, a proper trade-off, because as it stands this change doesn't matter. It's just another nail in an already barricaded coffin. And, I haven't even mentioned of how it also lowers pet surviveability. As if they don't die fast enough in pvp modes as is.

And while we're at pets and druid, why not give the pets additional healing power and concentration while having less of the other attributes when picking druid, so that the pets can be a functional part of the support role? As of right now, it is instead an afterthought.

Pack Alpha, cool. Poison Master, cool. Glyph of Stars competes with spirit in pve and stability in pvp - sounds interesting, but might not be worth it.

Glyph of Alignment: sorry, but bleeding instead of poison is stupid and makes no sense. You're removing utility and adding a pure damage condition to an elite spec that clearly isn't meant to do damage.

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GoE being gone hurts PvE Druid a bit, especially when FB/Rev is strong but oh well because that change helps the PvP side.

The new glyph of stars looks like it has real promise for both WvW and PvP. Condition immunity for your team that cannot be stripped (it's not resistance?) sounds amazing. Hopefully a decent CD/duration.

What I'm super curious about is poison master because it has no real ICD at the moment. With the new function, does lacerating slash from an eagle or hawk give you a 6 (or 4.8) second CD on poison master? GftE has a 12 second ICD on blind but wilting strike doesn't have an ICD on weakness so there is precedent for both. If there is no ICD or a low ICD, this buffs condition ranger/druid a lot! The cost is of course no condition clear from WS on the PvP/WvW side. However, with glyphs being buffed, maybe it'll work out for a poison master/glyph druid.

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I wouldn't feel bothered by pet nerf if they actually reworked Druid first instead of solely focusing on the need to justify a trade-off with pet nerf.

Even if Iboga nerf gets reverted, Druid will still fall behind Soulbeast and standard ranger just because they have a 20% nerf on their Iboga compared to the other two playstyles

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WoW, I don't know if to laugh or to cry. Additional nerf to druid offensive capabilities and pet Survivability under the excuse of "trade off", are they serious? The trade off is having a trait-line with minors that mostly amplify ally support, this is not enough? What is soulbeast trade-off? He can function like a regular ranger and only while in beastmode loses pet for new set of skills. Why we don't get the 20% nerf only when druid use CA? It also hurts the pet defensive stats. Unlike soulbeast where pet death is a non-existed mechanic, for druid this is a major nerf, so stupid. Soulbeast actually just got buffed, free condi damage if they go BM and now soulbeast can use poison master while in beastmode, nice.

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Glyph of Stars sounds awesome, but Glyph of Unity is still going to be trash.At this point, I wouldn't mind if they just delete spirits so Druids can actually be thoroughly balanced as a legitimate support spec (in PvP/WvW). I can't help but see it as more than a troll spec with little actual group value in comparison to other supports.

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@"LughLongArm.5460" said:WoW, I don't know if to laugh or to cry. Additional nerf to druid offensive capabilities and pet Survivability under the excuse of "trade off", are they serious? The trade off is having a trait-line with minors that mostly amplify ally support, this is not enough? What is soulbeast trade-off? He can function like a regular ranger and only while in beastmode loses pet for new set of skills. Why we don't get the 20% nerf only when druid use CA? It also hurts the pet defensive stats. Unlike soulbeast where pet death is a non-existed mechanic, for druid this is a major nerf, so stupid. Soulbeast actually just got buffed, free condi damage if they go BM and now soulbeast can use poison master while in beastmode, nice.

well it's only a matter of time until they cut out soulbeasts second pet, so i wouldn't get too attached to the no down side thing.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"LughLongArm.5460" said:WoW, I don't know if to laugh or to cry. Additional nerf to druid offensive capabilities and pet Survivability under the excuse of "trade off", are they serious? The trade off is having a trait-line with minors that mostly amplify ally support, this is not enough? What is soulbeast trade-off? He can function like a regular ranger and only while in beastmode loses pet for new set of skills. Why we don't get the 20% nerf only when druid use CA? It also hurts the pet defensive stats. Unlike soulbeast where pet death is a non-existed mechanic, for druid this is a major nerf, so stupid. Soulbeast actually just got buffed, free condi damage if they go BM and now soulbeast can use poison master while in beastmode, nice.

well it's only a matter of time until they cut out soulbeasts second pet, so i wouldn't get too attached to the no down side thing.

Yeah my thoughts exactly. This is what I am expecting as well.

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.It depends on the changes to poison master and the new elite.IMO The nerfs to the pets won't be really noticeable, 20% Of nothing is still nothing. The flat buff from might and fury will still be unaffected and its there from where the pets get their damage.I dont think it will change anything for the druid in wvw unless the new elite is busted.

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@anduriell.6280 said:.It depends on the changes to poison master and the new elite.IMO The nerfs to the pets won't be really noticeable, 20% Of nothing is still nothing. The flat buff from might and fury will still be unaffected and its there from where the pets get their damage.I dont think it will change anything for the druid in wvw unless the new elite is busted.

This is pretty much my thoughts on it 20% is going to lower damage potential, but other than that it's not going to be a huge deal, might force druids into using more utility/CC oriented pets instead of the squishy damage ones in PvP and that, but that's not exactly an issue.

I really want to see what this new elite is going to give though before i pass final judgement, I am VERY excited to be able to use glyph of unity without it taking up my elite slot though, very nice skill for killing people in team fights.

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About Druid:

Druid: The base attributes of pets have been reduced by 20%.This nerf is not ok and i'm going to explain why. Lower stats on pets means ALSO less vitality and thoughness, not only less damage. 20% less defensive stats on a pet with 15k hp IS HUGE. Pet's already die to everything when not using soulbeast, this is a bad change. I would have preferred a "-20% less outgoing damage" while keeping the defensive attributes. i also think druid should have some ways to revive their pets, as their role should be.

Glyph of Unity: Reduced the radius of this skill from 400 to 360, and increased its duration from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. This skill is no longer an elite skill, and it replaces Glyph of Empowerment.This skill is so useless that no one will EVER use it even if will become a non-elite skill. Also the problem was not the duration, but the radius. This skill needs a proper rework in both concept and functionality.

Glyph of Rejuvenation: Increased the healing multiplier across both versions of this skill by 40%. In celestial avatar form, the base healing to the druid and their pet has been increased by 50%. Outside of celestial avatar form, the base healing to allies has been increased by 50%.This Glyph already heals for a good amount when running healing gear. 50% more healing is such a lazy change. This Glyph should help recover Celestial Avatar more quickly, right now We Heal As One, Troll Unguent, and even Healing Spring are better at that.

Glyph of Alignment: Outside of celestial avatar form, this skill no longer inflicts 5 seconds of cripple or 2 stacks of poison for 8 seconds. Instead, it now inflicts 1.5 seconds of immobilization and 3 stacks of bleeding for 8 seconds.This is a nice change, but ranger already have A LOT of AoE immobs (double Muddy Terrain, Drakehound F2, Staff #4, CA #5). This skill lacks identity, and we already have better options to immobilize enemies or healing allies.

Glyph of Empowerment: This skill has been replaced by Glyph of Unity.Removed the unique buff that only druid can apply? Ok.

Glyph of the Stars: This new elite skill heals, prevents allies from being inflicted with conditions, and removes conditions already on allies at range. In celestial avatar form, it heals, prevents downed allies from losing health while being revived, and grants boons at range.This finally seems an Elite Skill. Preventing allies from being affected by conditions is great. I'm also curious about the "boons at range", i hope for some resistance/stability ( NO regen/protection again pls). Duration and cooldown will dictate if this new elite is good or not.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"anduriell.6280" said:.It depends on the changes to poison master and the new elite.IMO The nerfs to the pets won't be really noticeable, 20% Of nothing is still nothing. The flat buff from might and fury will still be unaffected and its there from where the pets get their damage.I dont think it will change anything for the druid in wvw unless the new elite is busted.

This is pretty much my thoughts on it 20% is going to lower damage potential, but other than that it's not going to be a huge deal, might force druids into using more utility/CC oriented pets instead of the squishy damage ones in PvP and that, but that's not exactly an issue.

I really want to see what this new elite is going to give though before i pass final judgement, I am VERY excited to be able to use glyph of unity without it taking up my elite slot though, very nice skill for killing people in team fights.

Unity is low tier trash, you "transfer" a very low damage for each power hit. I don't remember the skill triggering for condition ticks. You end up in "negative" damage transfer, the skill has a multiplier of 0.55. You make make some use of Alignment thou as troll meme.

Stars is a very binary skill by design and it will impact 1v1 more than squad comps , or it becomes the most busted skill in the game or it becomes completely useless and irrelevant. If its minimally usefull it will make the druid practically immortal in roaming.

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For PvP and WvW:Was Firebrand nerfed? No.Was Scrapper nerfed? No.Was Tempest nerfed? No.Was Herald/Renegade nerfed? No.Was tanky sidenode monkey build A-Z nerfed? No.Was CF cooldown reverted or compensated for? No.Was stability or viable support outside of CF provided? No.Was Druid nerfed? Yes.

For PvE:Was Druid nerfed? Yes.Was anything else? No.Was the thing that makes Druid so highly desired in PvE content nerfed? No.

So yeah, I don't know what the point of this patch was supposed to be. It's nerfing a relatively unused class outside of PvE raids just to nerf it.

I mean, I've come to not expect much competence from the balance devs over the years but wow, at least TRY to do better.

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@"Durzlla.6295" said:This is pretty much my thoughts on it 20% is going to lower damage potential, but other than that it's not going to be a huge deal, might force druids into using more utility/CC oriented pets instead of the squishy damage ones in PvP and that, but that's not exactly an issue.

You pretty much mentioned the "big deal" as to why pet nerf on Druid is bad. They are forced to use smaller pet groups whereas core rangers have free range as to what they can use. Soulbeasts have a good reason behind using specific pets since it affects the mechanic itself whereas Druid literally has next to no reason as to why it should be limited with its choices of pets. And even if Soulbeast is limited to the choice of pets due to Beast Mode, some Soulbeast players play without using Beast mode since skills from Soulbeast Spec alone is more than enough to make Soulbeast viable without Beast Mode.

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@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:All ranger specs have access to the same pets, there are no druid specific limitations. "Balance" changes still don't make sense at all, but at this point there is nothing else to be expected.

Never said there was limitations on the actual Druid itself, I'm saying due to nerf, some pets pretty much become less viable for Druids so there's less choices for viable pets whereas Soulbeast and core ranger won't have that issue depending on how heavily felt this 20% decrease is

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:.It depends on the changes to poison master and the new elite.IMO The nerfs to the pets won't be really noticeable, 20% Of nothing is still nothing. The flat buff from might and fury will still be unaffected and its there from where the pets get their damage.I dont think it will change anything for the druid in wvw unless the new elite is busted.

This is pretty much my thoughts on it 20% is going to lower damage potential, but other than that it's not going to be a huge deal, might force druids into using more utility/CC oriented pets instead of the squishy damage ones in PvP and that, but that's not exactly an issue.

I really want to see what this new elite is going to give though before i pass final judgement, I am VERY excited to be able to use glyph of unity without it taking up my elite slot though, very nice skill for killing people in team fights.

Unity is low tier trash, you "transfer" a very low damage for each power hit. I don't remember the skill triggering for condition ticks. You end up in "negative" damage transfer, the skill has a multiplier of 0.55. You make make some use of Alignment thou as troll meme.

Stars is a very binary skill by design and it will impact 1v1 more than squad comps , or it becomes the most busted skill in the game or it becomes completely useless and irrelevant. If its minimally usefull it will make the druid practically immortal in roaming.

I normally used Unity when mirage was literally everywhere (like 3 per match level everywhere) because every time a clone hits you for 0-4 damage it would proc the damage to anyone tethered to you, it’s pretty much just stronger retaliation that only hits people shackled to you, and doubles as a minor heal buff too, not fantastic and I definitely wouldn’t auto include it, but certainly useful when it’s abusable.

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:This is pretty much my thoughts on it 20% is going to lower damage potential, but other than that it's not going to be a huge deal, might force druids into using more utility/CC oriented pets instead of the squishy damage ones in PvP and that, but that's not exactly an issue.

You pretty much mentioned the "big deal" as to why pet nerf on Druid is bad. They are forced to use smaller pet groups whereas core rangers have free range as to what they can use. Soulbeasts have a good reason behind using specific pets since it affects the mechanic itself whereas Druid literally has next to no reason as to why it should be limited with its choices of pets. And even if Soulbeast is limited to the choice of pets due to Beast Mode, some Soulbeast players play without using Beast mode since skills from Soulbeast Spec alone is more than enough to make Soulbeast viable without Beast Mode.

The reason it should be limited in the scope of pet is the same reason people have cried about since HoT came out, druid taking a pure damage pet (like bristleback) pretty much sidesteps the main flaw of Druid being extremely low damage.

With all the healing and might stacking we have I doubt it’s going to prevent Druid from using squishy damage pets in small scale fights, but in team fights I don’t see it going well. I think Druid will be fine overall though.

@jcbroe.4329 sums up the issues I have with the nerf, it’s coming not because Druid is doing too well, but because Druid doesn’t have s trade off. I think it’s 100% fine to have a trade off for Druid, I just wish it would’ve came with a buff to staff and some CA nerf reverts to compensate.

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Why does druid needs to get a trade off?They already sacrifice dmg by taking this spec due to the lack of dmg in the line and emphasize on healing.

I predict: Soulbeast will lose petswap.Otherwise the whole tradeoff shnizzle is a joke.Not that I hate petswap on soulbeast or that uw ant to see the spec nerfed, it's just more logical than bashing a dead spec.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:The reason it should be limited in the scope of pet is the same reason people have cried about since HoT came out, druid taking a pure damage pet (like bristleback) pretty much sidesteps the main flaw of Druid being extremely low damage.

With all the healing and might stacking we have I doubt it’s going to prevent Druid from using squishy damage pets in small scale fights, but in team fights I don’t see it going well. I think Druid will be fine overall though.

You'd have a point if the pet nerf for Druid occurred around the time of HoT release but as of current, that's not the case. There's been a lot of changes to this game to consider, especially with the power creep. It puts Druid behind other specs when it comes to plays outside of support since other Elite Specs that can be built for support don't have as much an issue as that of Druid when it comes to working around damage potential.

But as I said on the main thread itself, whether this makes Druid pets selection get reduced for the sake of making up for damage is going to depend on how heavily that pet nerf is felt. I do agree the nerf can be mitigated by healing and Might stack but at the same time, I'm taking into consideration how ANet will implement the nerf.

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