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More Nerfs?!?!


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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinksConfusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

1shot PEPEGA

this patch is complete kitten, arena net just showed once again that they;re just about the most clueless and incompetent developer out there and the only reason their game was a success was because of GW1 and because of luck and maybe perhaps because the initial teams that worked on the game actually had some clue, unlike the clowns working in anet right nowook well if we were going by gw1 standards if i recall mesmer would be something similar to a support with fairly minimal damage.....

it just feels like targeted and biased nerfs. In top 100 in spvp there are like 3 miragesMesmer was no doubt strong and it still is going to be strong its just going to now have more risk involved with its reward. Mesmer was un fun to fight regardless of it was strong or not or in the hands of a skilled player or not and thats the issue here. Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

?

Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

Are we playing the same game?

I specifically remember soulbeast getting quite a few pet specific nerfs in the builds they were using and holo losing free instant stability for pressing a button without any kind of skill involved. Should I continue? Or have you not been keeping up with patch notes over the months.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total ass. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:

Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki"They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

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@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total kitten. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

I mean i suppose you could be right here to a certain extent. and perhaps thats why they are doing these changes so you dont have to suffer some ungodly penally like the majority of other professions.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Koen.1327 said:blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

Edit: Guess I should specifiy.More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.
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@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total kitten. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

Nah they were just lazy, probably coming next patch.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Koen.1327 said:blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

Edit: Guess I should specifiy.More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

Minor.

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@"ZDragon.3046" said:im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

@whoknocks.4935 said:About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

It's the Minor.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

Edit: Guess I should specifiy.More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

Minor.

I see...

So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

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@whoknocks.4935 said:I see...

So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

Well... in Power builds I don't feel like using it at the moment. Not as long as Evasive Mirror and Fencers Finesse are on the same tier.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki"They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

I severely disagree. If blinding dissipation in its former state was around for 4 years than there was no need to change it, than there are much better ways to do it now. Additionally, there is not a firm confirmation at all that damage avoidance from dueling is a problem. Do you think it is a problem with core mesmer? If not, than NO, this is a terrible change.

Mirage evasion was already nerfed. Condi mirage was already out of the meta picture, with the nerf to scepter it would have been fine. There was lots of things they could have done instead of nerfing blinding dissipation and core mesmer. In fact, there was a whole post dedicated to these types of changes and how to handle them. Additionally, why would they want to nerf condi mirage with a trait and then buff it with the same trait? Its potentially an even match for condi (not a buff or nerf) but a dead on nerf for anything else.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Koen.1327 said:blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

Edit: Guess I should specifiy.More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

Minor.

I see...

So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

We still don't know if the clones are also procing blind allowing you to get 8 confusion stacks off ineptitude.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

Sorry but im critically thinking here.Druid cannot will that -20% back into existenceYou can simply press the "s" key and dodge to dodge backwards :+1: While being able to cast skills that would normally be interrupted if other professions tried to do this. :astonished:

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

Considering they nerfed Mirage Cloak to .75s despite that, I doubt it.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Koen.1327 said:blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

Edit: Guess I should specifiy.More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

Minor.

I see...

So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

We still don't know if the clones are also procing blind allowing you to get 8 confusion stacks off ineptitude.

They will ill bet 100$

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

I don't really care if you think it counts or doesn't. However, if it doesn't, than it is an unintentional bug that needs to be fixed ASAP

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@"ZDragon.3046" said:Sorry but im critically thinking here.Druid cannot will that -20% back into existenceYou can simply press the "s" key and dodge to dodge backwards :+1: While being able to cast skills that would normally be interrupted if other professions tried to do this. :astonished:

I just feel different.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering they nerfed Mirage Cloak to .75s despite that, I doubt it.

Druid has been nerfed several times in the past. How is this an argument against Mirage?While Mirage Cloak has some benefits it clearly has disadvantages as well.

@Quadox.7834 said:Of course there is, daze mantra buff + confounding suggestions buff.

The changes don't increase the frequency, though. Which hardly makes it any more spammable than before.

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@Xstein.2187 said:

Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki"They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

I severely disagree. If blinding dissipation in its former state was around for 4 years than there was no need to change it. Mirage evasion was already nerfed. Condi mirage was already out of the meta picture, with the nerf to scepter it would have been fine. There was lots of things they could have done instead of nerfing blinding dissipation. In fact, there was a whole post dedicated to these types of changes and how to handle them. Additionally, why would they want to nerf condi mirage with a trait and then buff it with the same trait? Its potentially an even match for condi (not a buff or nerf) but a dead on nerf for anything else.

Thats fine to not agree but...The evasion nerf only happened after anet admitted that mirage evasion was overtuned on purpose compared to the standard dodge. Ideally your dodge became what it should have been from the start this is not ideally a crazy nerf its just another thing that slipped through the cracks that shouldnt have been there to start with.As I said i doubt the blind by itself was the issue. it was likely the blind ontop of everything else. They could have picked anything and chose to pick something old instead of something new. We might not ever know specifically why they picked this old trait. Just because something is not been touched for 4 years does not mean it should never be touched either.

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so onChrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

I don't really care if you think it counts or doesn't. However, if it doesn't, than it is an unintentional bug that needs to be fixed ASAP

Trust me, I know.

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