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Evasive Mirror/Blinding Dissipation nerf severely handicaps power roaming


treizebee.2091

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Both traits are crucial for surviving today's wvw environment on a power build.Even now, surviving a opening burst from a deadeye/LB ranger/hammer rev requires more than just triggering EM, usually needing to dip into other evades or distortion.With a 10 sec cooldown on EM, you will practically never have it available when actually needed. Triggering it on accident because you dodged a ranger pbs, but leaving you open to eat a full rapid fire. It shouldn't require burning all your defensive tools in order to survive one weapon skill.EM counter play already existed in the form of unblockables. Rifle warriors and LB rangers today are already adept at using their unblockable signets/traits.Don't even consider surviving any scenario where you are +1 by someone with range options.Blinding Dissipation was a tool to counter aggressive melee builds - why remove this from power builds in order to give condition mesmers even more potential confusion generation for those who run ineptitude?Idgi, roaming power mesmer is a hard build, I do not see it survive as a solo viable option in wvw post this balance patch.

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Both clearly are nerfs, but 'severely' is a bit dramatic and it affects condition Mesmers just as much as power Mesmers.

  • Power can go Master Fencer.
  • CoF is available to every Mesmer. Using it just for blinding is actually more justifiable for power than condition builds.
  • Evasive Mirror had a too huge uptime. We'll see wether 10s ICD might be too long or not.
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Cry me a river. 2s of reflect on evade has made fights vs projectile-reliant opponents completely one-sided for the past 4 years. Honestly it should have been reworked into something completely different - that type of mechanic on a simple evade has never been healthy.

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Meanwhile . . . . in Seattle - Anet conversation:Muaaaa Haaa Haaa Haaaa!!!! Now that those pesky core mesmer trait lines are nerfed to oblivion,we can finally go back to business . . . . . Making future Elite Specs as Powerful as We Want so People Who are Left will be Forced to Buy the Expansions to Stay Viable!Muaaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaa Those addicted fools will never see this coming B)

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@Xaylin.1860 said:Both clearly are nerfs, but 'severely' is a bit dramatic and it affects condition Mesmers just as much as power Mesmers.

  • Power can go Master Fencer.
  • CoF is available to every Mesmer. Using it just for blinding is actually more justifiable for power than condition builds.
  • Evasive Mirror had a too huge uptime. We'll see wether 10s ICD might be too long or not.

Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

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@Xstein.2187 said:Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

Master Fencers can be utilized defensively due to the CD reduction (#2 and #4).

And sure, BD has been nerfed. My point was that it's worse for condi than power. ;)

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@Xaylin.1860 said:Both clearly are nerfs, but 'severely' is a bit dramatic and it affects condition Mesmers just as much as power Mesmers.

  • Power can go Master Fencer.
  • CoF is available to every Mesmer. Using it just for blinding is actually more justifiable for power than condition builds.
  • Evasive Mirror had a too huge uptime. We'll see wether 10s ICD might be too long or not.

Power mesmer did not need any help in damage output. Master Fencer is not a 1:1 replacement of the utility brought from EM/BD.Condition mesmers have the inherent advantage of builds that probably have more health/toughness, losing EM/BD will not be that dramatic compared to power.

@"Turk.5460" said:Cry me a river. 2s of reflect on evade has made fights vs projectile-reliant opponents completely one-sided for the past 4 years. Honestly it should have been reworked into something completely different - that type of mechanic on a simple evade has never been healthy.

I have seen enough instances of ranged builds downing power mesmers when properly using unblockables. I have been on both ends of that scenario. It is also a bad argument as "projectile reliant" is an issue for that person, similar to builds that take double melee weapons and then complain about being kited.The trait being in a line that condition mesmers almost always take is what exaggerated its impact on "health".You can not sincerely believe a power mesmer vs power ranged build will be healthier post this balance patch when a power mesmer can be 100% by a ranger rapid fire or a few hammer rev autoattacks.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

Master Fencers can be utilized defensively due to the CD reduction (#2 and #4).

And sure, BD has been nerfed. My point was that it's worse for condi than power. ;)

Mmm, yap. Power would get a very minor advantage over condi due to adaptability, but it would still be a pretty hard nerf for a build that really shouldn't have got it in the first place (not talking power chrono). On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage when using the trait over power, especially with Ineptitude.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage [...]

This would be amusing in the tragic kind of way. I hope ANet got enough awareness to not do sth. like that.

I literally think that they still really have it in their heads that they want condi mes to be 'bursty' and therefore tried to make up for the burst from the power nerf from scepter while at the same time decreasing the evasion uptime.However, they apparently don't give a shit about any other type of PvP build in the game or core trait lines.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage [...]

This would be amusing in the tragic kind of way. I hope ANet got enough awareness to not do sth. like that.

It should do that. Condi shatter is completely limp right and has absolutely no kill potential now. The confusion nerfs last patch were completely misguided.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:Maybe... but then I'd want it to be tied to Cry of Pain (re-worked as a Major rather than Minor). We'll see. :)

Cry of Pain minor is so weird. It only really helps condition builds when Illusions is supposed to be the good for everyone tree. Its the kind of trait you paid with 2 other good traits. Like Compounding Power and Master of Misdirection are good for everyone.

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Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a conditional evade... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

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"Dazzling: This trait now applies vulnerability when stunning a foe, in addition to when dazing them."

Now this is really what bothers me. Remember back: This trait prior to some patches made your dazes to stuns (on a 10s cooldown or something?). Now it is basically the same variant but just crippled. This trait was the reason power shatter was strong so they changed the stun interaction (because of ppl crying) but now we have the same thing but crippled.

I will not go into other nerfs but one thing which bothers me (and which was not mentioned yet) is the nerf to Signet of Illusions and its interaction with the Blind on Shatter and Chrono (CS):

In a heavy pressured fight you could pop that Sigil and CS right when your shatters were ready, then Shatter through your F skills to proc blinds and also some dmg through F1 and F2. Then split ends and you pop Signet of Illusions again to have your shatters ready.

This whole interaction was not common use but experienced Chronomancers whould use this to take down pressure/counter pressure which was a glorious skill interaction for Chronomancers which do not play with Shield and don't have the Mirage benefits.

It got the same nerf as the Healing Signet which is really a sad thing tbh.

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@"Daccura.4769" said:"Dazzling: This trait now applies vulnerability when stunning a foe, in addition to when dazing them."

Now this is really what bothers me. Remember back: This trait prior to some patches made your dazes to stuns (on a 10s cooldown or something?). Now it is basically the same variant but just crippled. This trait was the reason power shatter was strong so they changed the stun interaction (because of ppl crying) but now we have the same thing but crippled.

I don't think it's crippled too much.Old was Daze is a 1s Stun (ICD 5s). It was changed because the Mantra of distraction 1200 range stun was too strong. And in most cases these and some unreliable Chaos Storm procs were the only dazes mesmers used.With this patch we get all our F3 hits to be stuns which I like very much. Not only that but the duration is being increased making them 1.5s which is even stronger than before. In the same patch we get compensated with increased daze and stun durations on several skills so the latest functionality of Confounding Suggestions stays in the game. From the perspective we are now in this is a buff. Viewed from the perspective of the old Confounding Suggestions this is a slight but neccesssry nerf which was highly compensated with CC durations.

Also to note for PvE:Dazes does not scale with Sigil of Paralysation. The stuns we get can be increased to 1.95s stun which essentially means we get boosted from 600 breakbar damage to 780.

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@Curunen.8729 said:Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a conditional evade... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

This would require them to have an idea of what they want to do with mesmer as a class though. And judging off of every balance patch since HoT came out, they don't have a consistent idea of what they want mesmer to be.

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@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a
conditional evade
... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

This would require them to have an idea of what they want to do with mesmer as a class though. And judging off of every balance patch since HoT came out, they don't have a consistent idea of what they want mesmer to be.

Yeah especially seeing certain things going round in circles like scepter crazy buffs then nerfed back again in a similar way, and confounding suggestions having how many different versions... Just seems like a waste of effort.

Feeling pretty jaded right now, not been for a long time but maybe with the nice spring weather (northern hemisphere) it's time to go extra casual until Anet sort this kitten out properly - though that could take until the next expansion or whatever. :/

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a
conditional evade
... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

This would require them to have an idea of what they want to do with mesmer as a class though. And judging off of every balance patch since HoT came out, they don't have a consistent idea of what they want mesmer to be.

Yeah especially seeing certain things going round in circles like scepter crazy buffs then nerfed back again in a similar way, and confounding suggestions having how many different versions... Just seems like a waste of effort.

Feeling pretty jaded right now, not been for a long time but maybe with the nice spring weather (northern hemisphere) it's time to go extra casual until Anet sort this kitten out properly - though that could take until the next expansion or whatever. :/

What they should do, even though it will be a large project, is sit back and think deeply on every class about what they want it to be, what they want it to be good and bad at, potentially even how it will play at a high level. They already, I believe, have done this, but the issue is they stopped there. They need to take that idea significantly farther, down to each traitline, weapon, and skill category for every class (and again, at a bit higher level, for elite specs as a whole).

Scepter on mesmer is a great example of where this process has not happened. Its so lost. No one knows what it is supposed to be, design wise. Is it a power weapon? A condi weapon? Mid range or short range? Is it for dueling or not? Its kit is all over the place, and 'balanced' seemingly at random. Mesmer boon share (more specifically SoI) is another, near perfect, example of where this process has not happened, or at least where it wasn't effective. Instead of continuing to nerf our boon share in a manner that doesn't really address anything, the balance team needs to step back and consider if mesmer should be sharing every boon in the game with a single skill anyway, and the answer is obviously no.

You can't have a class be both balanced AND fun unless you clearly know what you want that class to look like. And its pretty clear that they have no consistent idea of what they want mesmer to look like, it seems to flip several times a year.

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