How many meta builds were nerfed?

[Quadox.7834]

As far as I can tell, only one meta build is getting nerfed, chrono bunker (two if you count condi mirage). How come there is such a distinct lack of nerfs?

[mortrialus.3062]

DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

[Xstein.2187]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

However, I don't think you saw it coming like this. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

You know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal? It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

Dude, No, you at least didn't appear to see this coming. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

Boo hoo, you know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal. It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.Quite using the steal nerf as an excuse! It makes me sick.

To be honest I like the blinding dissupation nerf, they even admitted that some traits are bloated... I just wish that other traitlines and classes got the same treatment.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

Dude, No, you at least didn't appear to see this coming. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

Boo hoo, you know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal. It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.Quite using the steal nerf as an excuse! It makes me sick.

???

I was hands down one of the most vocal advocates for unnerfing portal when the nerf initially happened. I also voiced support for unnerfing it in Falndre's thread about bringing portal back. I really don't get were this is coming from.

Steal nerf is just funny because its so left field and thief isn't exactly dominating right now. It's just really left field is all.

[Xstein.2187]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

Dude, No, you at least didn't appear to see this coming. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

Boo hoo, you know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal. It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.Quite using the steal nerf as an excuse! It makes me sick.

To be honest I like the blinding dissupation nerf, they even admitted that some traits are bloated... I just wish that other traitlines and classes got the same treatment.

I just wish if they made such changes, they would also apply buffs to compensate, especially when nerfing core. Particularly in the same trait line to compensate.The blinding dissipations nerf is just going to nerf some non-meta builds sooo badly, particularly most power builds.Additionally, the devs may be doing exactly what I said in the first sentience of this reply, except making it only work well with condi builds.I just very much thought they could have took a different approach and wish they took a different approach all together with some of their decisions.

[Xstein.2187]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

Dude, No, you at least didn't appear to see this coming. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

Boo hoo, you know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal. It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.Quite using the steal nerf as an excuse! It makes me sick.

???

I was hands down one of the most vocal advocates for unnerfing portal when

the nerf initially happened

. I also

voiced support

for unnerfing it in Falndre's thread about bringing portal back. I really don't get were this is coming from.

Steal nerf is just funny because its so left field and thief isn't exactly dominating right now. It's just really left field is all.

Sorry, I was too defensive and upset. I shouldn't post anymore today. I know the steal nerf was out of left field. I also know that you for the most part are pretty unbiased and fair about your suggestions. I admire that.I didn't bring up portal because I thought you disagreed with it. I brought it up because it came out of left field as well. No one expected it.As I said, I also don't think that you really saw this happening, at least this way.

This should be the main essence that you gain from my post though --> "Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class."

sorry, I made changes to make my comment more 'mild'.Once again, sorry for getting over defensive.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:DP Daredevil of all things got one of the most brutal nerfs with a 50% reduction in steal range completely out of left field. Not really meta but ouch.

Mesmer got all the nerfs I said were coming that people whined about me not talking about enough even though we all knew they were coming. Scrapper and Holo somehow escape any real nerfs two full patches in a row. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point, Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up and maybe we'll see Rev Bunkers now with the Ventari and Salvation changes. Elementalist, Necro, and guardian receive minor changes that won't really address much.

Dude, No, you at least didn't appear to see this coming. We all agreed that power damage on scepter should be nerfed. However, no-one talked about nerfing blinding dissipation or evasive mirror like that. No one even thought it was a problem. We thought bunker chrono was a problem. We thought scepter was a problem. But not this, and certainly not this way.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70097/changes-to-improve-mesmer-buffs-nerfs-qol/p1

Boo hoo, you know what was also nerfed by 50%? The duration of portal. You know why this nerf isn't getting as much spotlight as you are putting on your steal. It is because every single patch mesmer is nerfed, most of the time core mesmer is nerfed in some shape or form, and most of the time there are nerfs that always come out of left field.If you expected this, why didn't you mention it? Why didn't you suggest a more adequate approach than nerfing core traits?

Additionally, just because you don't like changes that occur with a different class like thief, doesn't invalidate concerns and complaints with another class.Quite using the steal nerf as an excuse! It makes me sick.

To be honest I like the blinding dissupation nerf, they even admitted that some traits are bloated... I just wish that other traitlines and classes got the same treatment.

I just wish if they made such changes, they would also apply buffs to compensate, especially when nerfing core. Particularly in the same trait line to compensate.The blinding dissipations nerf is just going to nerf some non-meta builds sooo badly, particularly most power builds.Additionally, the devs may be doing exactly what I said in the first sentience of this reply, except making it only work well with condi builds.I just very much thought they could have took a different approach and wish they took a different approach all together with some of their decisions.

Well no it would be better if they don't buff in compensation. Just keep nerfing until we are at sane levels of powercreep.

[Xstein.2187]

Well no it would be better if they don't buff in compensation. Just keep nerfing until we are at sane levels of powercreep.

How is it power creep if the trait has been basically the same since 2015?

I am all for reducing power creep, just not for doing it by nerfing core trait lines and specs.Also, how do they judge if the trait was overly bloated? Some people chose evasive mirror over it. Many in PvP chose Fencer's Finesse in PvE. It was a solid close decision between the 3 (or at least the first 2 in PvP). To me, this is a good sign it was not over bloated. Of course, just because the 3 traits in a tier are evenly matched doesn't necessarily mean a trait is not over bloated. However, it is a good indication. For example, everyone used to take Elusive mind before it was nerfed. Everyone chose it because it was over bloated.Why this? Isn't there other traits that look more over bloated? Didn't Infinite Horizon appear to be an over bloated trait as well? Doesn't chronophantasma appear to be a tad over bloated? Why choose these out of all the potential over bloated traits in the game?Although it was strong and a solid choice, to me it didn't look like they nerfed it and evasive mirror because they thought the traits were overbloated.It looked like they nerfed them because of the defensive synergies with the evasive nature of mirage and the complaints based on this evasive nature.I just don't see solid evidence that it was clearly an over-bloated trait, especially before mirage came around. It definitely did not appear to be a mandatory skill over time form 2015 to present. Useful, yes, but not over-bloated. Did you?

And if they nerfed it because of the evasive nature of mirage, why not nerf mirage instead?Additionally, if this is the case, why didn't "Go for the Eyes" get nerfed as well?The trait has a 12 sec cool down on blind.Nothing adds up.

If they are doing this to reduce power (not just power creep-cause only elite specs have lead to the creeping) and remove what they think are over bloated traits, then they are being completely biased in their approach.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Xstein.2187 said:

Well no it would be better if they don't buff in compensation. Just keep nerfing until we are at sane levels of powercreep.

How is it power creep if the trait has been basically the same since 2015?

I am all for reducing power creep, just not for doing it by nerfing core trait lines and specs.Also, how do they judge if the trait was overly bloated? Some people chose evasive mirror over it. Many in PvP chose Fencer's Finesse in PvE. It was a solid close decision between the 3 (or at least the first 2 in PvP). To me, this is a good sign it was not over bloated. Of course, just because the 3 traits in a tier are evenly matched doesn't necessarily mean a trait is not over bloated. However, it is a good indication. For example, everyone used to take Elusive mind before it was nerfed. Everyone chose it because it was over bloated.Why this? Isn't there other traits that look more over bloated? Didn't Infinite Horizon appear to be an over bloated trait as well? Doesn't chronophantasma appear to be a tad over bloated? Why choose these out of all the potential over bloated traits in the game?Although it was strong and a solid choice, to me it didn't look like they nerfed it and evasive mirror because they thought the traits were overbloated.It looked like they nerfed them because of the defensive synergies with the evasive nature of mirage and the complaints based on this evasive nature.I just don't see solid evidence that it was clearly an over-bloated trait, especially before mirage came around. It definitely did not appear to be a mandatory skill over time form 2015 to present. Useful, yes, but not over-bloated. Did you?

And if they nerfed it because of the evasive nature of mirage, why not nerf mirage instead?

You can thank a certain holosmith streamer for people thinking Mesmer shatters were bloated.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Another balance update, some more Mesmer nerfs. That hasn't been new for the past year. What is astonishing is how the other power-crept specs continue escaping. Nerfs are fine, but they need to be applied evenly. This is getting ridiculous.

[Stallic.2397]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:Another balance update, some more Mesmer nerfs. That hasn't been new for the past year. What is astonishing is how the other power-crept specs continue escaping. Nerfs are fine, but they need to be applied evenly. This is getting ridiculous.

I'm not a mesmer main, but I agree with this. Most nerfs to mesmer are not surprising (i.e. scepter and blind trait nerf). But since the remaining metas including holosmith and soulbeast didn't get touched, it seems more biased than fair.

[Khalisto.5780]

the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

[sephiroth.4217]

I saw a Blunderbuss thread and this one both speaking as if they have seen future patch note previews, I cant find the thread or post that people are using..

Can someone please link it for me?

[mortrialus.3062]

@Khalisto.5780 said:the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

Mirage and mesmer received a year of straight nerfs, the only buffs were in spring for Scepter, which was a largely unused weapon and now aside from two clones on block those buffs have been completely undone. And you know what? That doesn't matter. At all. Just like how all those previous nerfs the other classses received don't matter in the slightest. Because most of those nerfs were 100% justified. Evasive Mirror and and Confusing Images 100% deserved nerfs despite the previous year of nerfs.

And Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Scrapper, Soulbeast and Herald deserve some adjustments regardless of what nerfs are in their history. Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games and alongside chronobunk ARE the meta. Frankly anything meta by definition basically requires nerfs because of how much they push out other builds. It's funny how everyone talks about how bad the power creep is, but god forbid we touch anything top tier that isn't mesmer.

[Quadox.7834]

@"Xstein.2187" said:

Well no it would be better if they don't buff in compensation. Just keep nerfing until we are at sane levels of powercreep.

How is it power creep if the trait has been basically the same since 2015?

I am all for reducing power creep, just not for doing it by nerfing core trait lines and specs.Also, how do they judge if the trait was overly bloated? Some people chose evasive mirror over it. Many in PvP chose Fencer's Finesse in PvE. It was a solid close decision between the 3 (or at least the first 2 in PvP). To me, this is a good sign it was not over bloated. Of course, just because the 3 traits in a tier are evenly matched doesn't necessarily mean a trait is not over bloated. However, it is a good indication. For example, everyone used to take Elusive mind before it was nerfed. Everyone chose it because it was over bloated.Why this? Isn't there other traits that look more over bloated? Didn't Infinite Horizon appear to be an over bloated trait as well? Doesn't chronophantasma appear to be a tad over bloated? Why choose these out of all the potential over bloated traits in the game?Although it was strong and a solid choice, to me it didn't look like they nerfed it and evasive mirror because they thought the traits were overbloated.It looked like they nerfed them because of the defensive synergies with the evasive nature of mirage and the complaints based on this evasive nature.I just don't see solid evidence that it was clearly an over-bloated trait, especially before mirage came around. It definitely did not appear to be a mandatory skill over time form 2015 to present. Useful, yes, but not over-bloated. Did you?

And if they nerfed it because of the evasive nature of mirage, why not nerf mirage instead?Additionally, if this is the case, why didn't "Go for the Eyes" get nerfed as well?The trait has a 12 sec cool down on blind.Nothing adds up.

If they are doing this to reduce power (not just power creep-cause only elite specs have lead to the creeping) and remove what they think are over bloated traits, then they are being completely biased in their approach.

Because 2015 was also powercreep (after trait rework). And I always disliked blindspam. But of course it wasn't overperforming compared to all the other shit that exists in the game.

You are right that EM and BD were fairly equal and situational, but with EM demolished BD would have been 100% guaranteed choice had they not nerfed it too. And yes I agree that there are dozens of other traits that would have been better to nerf than BD - chronophantasma is a good examle as you brought up.

[Khalisto.5780]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

Mirage and mesmer recieved a year of straight nerfs, the only buffs were in spring for Scepter, which was a largely unused weapon and now aside from two clones on block those buffs have been completely undone. And you know what? That doesn't matter. At all. Just like how all those previous nerfs the other classses received don't matter in the slightest.

Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games and alongside chronobunk ARE the meta. Frankly anything meta by definition basically requires nerfs because of how much they push out other builds. It's funny how everyone talks about how bad the power creep is, but god forbid we touch anything top tier that isn't mesmer.

You sound like you want every single build to be equally viable, no game has achieved this level of balance. You also seem mad about the mesmer nerfs, maybe if mesmer come back to top the charts you'll be happy again.

I'd pick the second option here. This is a post crying about mesmer nerfs desguised as a meta builds complaint.

[Quadox.7834]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

Mirage and mesmer recieved a year of straight nerfs, the only buffs were in spring for Scepter, which was a largely unused weapon and now aside from two clones on block those buffs have been completely undone. And you know what? That doesn't matter. At all. Just like how all those previous nerfs the other classses received don't matter in the slightest.

Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games and alongside chronobunk ARE the meta. Frankly anything meta by definition basically requires nerfs because of how much they push out other builds. It's funny how everyone talks about how bad the power creep is, but god forbid we touch anything top tier that isn't mesmer.

You sound like you want every single build to be equally viable, no game has achieved this level of balance. You also seem mad about the mesmer nerfs, maybe if mesmer come back to top the charts you'll be happy again.

I'd pick the second option here. This is a post crying about mesmer nerfs desguised as a meta builds complaint.

If you are talking about OP (my post) you are absolutely wrong.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

Mirage and mesmer recieved a year of straight nerfs, the only buffs were in spring for Scepter, which was a largely unused weapon and now aside from two clones on block those buffs have been completely undone. And you know what? That doesn't matter. At all. Just like how all those previous nerfs the other classses received don't matter in the slightest.

Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games and alongside chronobunk ARE the meta. Frankly anything meta by definition basically requires nerfs because of how much they push out other builds. It's funny how everyone talks about how bad the power creep is, but god forbid we touch anything top tier that isn't mesmer.

You sound like you want every single build to be equally viable, no game has achieved this level of balance. You also seem mad about the mesmer nerfs, maybe if mesmer come back to top the charts you'll be happy again.

I'd pick the second option here. This is a post crying about mesmer nerfs desguised as a meta builds complaint.

If you took the time you'd know I'd personally advocated for many mirage and mesmer nerfs I felt were appropriate, many, many times including nerfs that are in the pipeline for next patch. You can see me talk levelheadedly about balance including mesmer going back over a year now.

Everyone knows Sic Em Soulbeast does far too much damage and has too easy access to unblockable. Everyone knows Holosmith is no where near as high risk to play as it needs to be considering the top tier damage it gets out of Photon Forge. Everyone knows that it's weird that Spellbreaker, an elite specialization focused on counter attacking and removing your enemy's strengths like their boons, condition output, stealth, and projectiles, to be lobbing out 8k Whirlwind Blade and Arcing Slice crits and two-shotting people in Rampage is. Everyone knows that it's not ideal for Revenant's best build, Glint+Shiro Herald, to be absolutely terrible in condition metas and literally godly when it's a power meta. Literally no one likes fighting scrappers.

You seem like like you're not used to how to handle having a build he plays criticized in any way whatsoever and verbally lashing out for no reason.

[Khalisto.5780]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:the list on metabattle changed quite a bit since I started playing, june 2018. I'll try to post all the builds nerfed I remember, defense dagger warrior, fc dmg, the amount of toughness you've got from a trait was halved, the tether might nerfed.

Holo, the passive defenses and quickness up time were nerfed

FB, overall healing numbers and cds

Condi mirage - a lot of small nerfs over the table, the 2 first pathes did almost nothing tho

SoulBeast - they've tried several nerfs, it was better back then but not really nerfed

Scourge - the sage build was nerfed

rifle DE - lost about 40% dmg on a skill

most of the meta builds by the time were adressed, SB being the least affected, all of them got some level of nerfing, shadefire and FB never left the meta

And we had the rise of scraper and power shiro, and chrono bunker made his way back into the meta.

Those are direct nerfs to the classes, you still have consider sigils and rune traits nerfs that made some builds less viable or completely nerfed

Mirage and mesmer recieved a year of straight nerfs, the only buffs were in spring for Scepter, which was a largely unused weapon and now aside from two clones on block those buffs have been completely undone. And you know what? That doesn't matter. At all. Just like how all those previous nerfs the other classses received don't matter in the slightest.

Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games and alongside chronobunk ARE the meta. Frankly anything meta by definition basically requires nerfs because of how much they push out other builds. It's funny how everyone talks about how bad the power creep is, but god forbid we touch anything top tier that isn't mesmer.

You sound like you want every single build to be equally viable, no game has achieved this level of balance. You also seem mad about the mesmer nerfs, maybe if mesmer come back to top the charts you'll be happy again.

I'd pick the second option here. This is a post crying about mesmer nerfs desguised as a meta builds complaint.

If you took the time you'd know I'd personally advocated for many mirage and mesmer nerfs I felt were appropriate,

many

,

many

times

including nerfs that are in the pipeline for next patch. You can see me talk levelheadedly about balance including mesmer

going back over a year now

.

Everyone knows Sic Em Soulbeast does far too much damage and has too easy access to unblockable. Everyone knows Holosmith is no where near as high risk to play as it needs to be considering the top tier damage it gets out of Photon Forge. Everyone knows that it's weird that Spellbreaker, an elite specialization focused on counter attacking and removing your enemy's strengths like their boons, condition output, stealth, and projectiles, to be lobbing out 8k Whirlwind Blade and Arcing Slice crits and two-shotting people in Rampage is. Everyone knows that it's not ideal for Revenant's best build, Glint+Shiro Herald, to be absolutely terrible in condition metas and literally godly when it's a power meta. Literally no one likes fighting scrappers.

You seem like like you're not used to how to handle having a build he plays criticized in any way whatsoever and verbally lashing out for no reason.

lol, I don't even care about what is nerfed or not, I just bounce to whichever is stronger at the time or counter the other team's comp better.

[Falan.1839]

The problem is that the Anet balance team is somehow madly in love with underplayed garbage builds and puts 80% of its effort into buffing them (usually either with no impact at all or overdoing it as on Scrapper) while tuning down builds that are overperforming is atrociously slow and piecemeal. These are basically just the necessary Mesmer nerfs that should have been done months ago, while other builds that are overperforming will probably take months more to hit, even though it would actually be easy. For example Rampage should have been tuned down long ago. Same goes for Rev, especially Sword 5. Sic 'Em on Soulbeast is also somewhat questionable.

[Khalisto.5780]

@Falan.1839 said:The problem is that the Anet balance team is somehow madly in love with underplayed garbage builds and puts 80% of its effort into buffing them (usually either with no impact at all or overdoing it as on Scrapper) while tuning down builds that are overperforming is atrociously slow and piecemeal. These are basically just the necessary Mesmer nerfs that should have been done months ago, while other builds that are overperforming will probably take months more to hit, even though it would actually be easy. For example Rampage should have been tuned down long ago. Same goes for Rev, especially Sword 5. Sic 'Em on Soulbeast is also somewhat questionable.

I agree with you, they put a lot of effort in making everysingle spec viable while the overpowered ones usually take 6 month to being properly nerfed. While I agree with most you said, nerfing sic em and warrior right now would be a huge buff for the untouched scrapper

[Falan.1839]

It was hardly an exclusive list, just what came to my mind in the first 30 seconds.

[Maddog.3716]

@Khalisto.5780 said:lol, I don't even care about what is nerfed or not, I just bounce to whichever is stronger at the time or counter the other team's comp better.

Because of such people in gw2 only meta builds are used. Departure from meta will not help much when you can reroll.In gw2 will not be able to do as in Teso at least the illusion of choice. In Teso at a kind of mechanics of the fight a lot more builds out one class.

P. S. The funny thing is that such players think that they are smart and very skilled fighters. A cat through a month learn to go to the same toilet.

[otto.5684]

DD maybe pushed out of meta. Every thing else is close to no impact.