Consume Plasma

[Quadox.7834]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:And at viq. You said a key word. Thief WAS the had the most mobility. Mostly cuz noobs didn't know their classes... But now everyone know their classes, thief mobility and stealth been nerfd many times, classes have more ports, swiftness, quickness, pulls, knockdown, cripples, clones, disengages, detargets, stealth, that all kills thieves engagements or disengagements. And i forgot the count stuns and dazes for interrupts. Not to mention the ridiculous tracking skills that hit a tonI'm looking at u mesmer specter 3.. Ranger longbow 2... Ele air a tuned specter... Warrior 5 which distance and speed is never consistent.It's always the best mobility class in this game.Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have

perma vigor

with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:These days thiefs mobility isn't the advantage it once was.rev can hunt u down and burst u while ur trying to escape,ranger can keep close enough to easily down u with long bow using gs/bird,mesmer for obvious reasons,warrior clears alot of ground fast with gs,engine's if built for it can cover alot of ground quick as well etc arenet really need to figure out what they want thiefs identity to be and make some changes to help put thief back in line with its fellow classes.

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

Can revs, guard not tele vertically with targets? So cuz sb5 can tele in SOME spots vertically it deserves the spot it's in? Especially with all the no taget/terrain spots that u cant sb5 to when u should especially wvw. Lmao sb5 Is lame arguement for class being way it is

What would you do to dissuade thieves from running sb as a secondary weapon?

[Magolith.9412]

@Safandula.8723 said:Yea it's rly sweet to have that mobility that let's u smack that 3k backstab at the end. Buff d/p plz

Funny enough, a good D/P thief that spends a lot of its time in stealth to backstab me regularly for 13-16k is one of the few builds that are really effective against me as a glassy-ish hybrid mirage.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@viquing.8254 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:And at viq. You said a key word. Thief WAS the had the most mobility. Mostly cuz noobs didn't know their classes... But now everyone know their classes, thief mobility and stealth been nerfd many times, classes have more ports, swiftness, quickness, pulls, knockdown, cripples, clones, disengages, detargets, stealth, that all kills thieves engagements or disengagements. And i forgot the count stuns and dazes for interrupts. Not to mention the ridiculous tracking skills that hit a tonI'm looking at u mesmer specter 3.. Ranger longbow 2... Ele air a tuned specter... Warrior 5 which distance and speed is never consistent.It's always the best mobility class in this game.Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have

perma vigor

with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:These days thiefs mobility isn't the advantage it once was.rev can hunt u down and burst u while ur trying to escape,ranger can keep close enough to easily down u with long bow using gs/bird,mesmer for obvious reasons,warrior clears alot of ground fast with gs,engine's if built for it can cover alot of ground quick as well etc arenet really need to figure out what they want thiefs identity to be and make some changes to help put thief back in line with its fellow classes.

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

I love posters like this basically amounts toI dont play thiefI dont like thiefTheif has mobility and teleport skills(multiple classes do now)They should have the least hp and defensive skillsThey should have to hit me 10× more than I have to hit them to win fightI should be able to sustain thiefs dps indefinitely unless I'm +1 by thief on my super powercrept classAll this because even with all the powercreep they still have slight advantage in mobility and oh one sb skill allows them to tele vertically SOMETIMES for mobility purposes only where as some classes like rev/guard can do it to burst an enemy.

This all sound about right? If powercreep continues they way u guys want pvp will just be warriors etc lolAnd to top it off they usually have some magical thief players theyve witnessed thatprove theif is a strong dueler.oh wait I'm in a mesmer forum lmao

[Safandula.8723]

@Magolith.9412 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Yea it's rly sweet to have that mobility that let's u smack that 3k backstab at the end. Buff d/p plz

Funny enough, a good D/P thief that spends a lot of its time in stealth to backstab me regularly for 13-16k is one of the few builds that are really effective against me as a glassy-ish hybrid mirage.

Ur glass and he's glass as well. Doing backstabs for this numbers, means he's with assa signet, has 11k hp and most likely took critical strikes instead of deadly arts or trickery - he can't do much more than 1 shoting

[viquing.8254]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love posters like this basically amounts toI dont play thiefI dont like thiefTheif has mobility and teleport skills(multiple classes do now)They should have the least hp and defensive skillsThey should have to hit me 10× more than I have to hit them to win fightI should be able to sustain thiefs dps indefinitely unless I'm +1 by thief on my super powercrept classAll this because even with all the powercreep they still have slight advantage in mobility and oh one sb skill allows them to tele vertically SOMETIMES for mobility purposes only where as some classes like rev/guard can do it to burst an enemy.

This all sound about right? If powercreep continues they way u guys want pvp will just be warriors etc lolAnd to top it off they usually have some magical thief players theyve witnessed thatprove theif is a strong dueler.oh wait I'm in a mesmer forum lmao

I like thief. (Particulary the hard mu when I'm on squisshy build.)I tested thief.Thief is the best mobility class in this game even if the gap is reduced.Thief should choose between duellist or +1.Thief should be penalized when spamming and buring evades when it's not usefull.I shoulds be able to sustain thief indefinitely as long as they are more mobile.Talking about 10*+hit, you want to compare thief and mes auto with same gear ?It's not only with SB that they have vertical mobility. And rev/gard/other on target teleport can only do it offensively.Yeah you are in a mesmer forum and good luck if you want to make a bad faith contest with me.

I'm all for thieves having more diversity gameplay, beeing good duelist on some build etc. But it's decorrelate to plasma effects.

[AsiraasiB.7165]

@viquing.8254 said:It's always the best mobility class in this game.Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have perma vigor with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

Not anymore. Everyone can port offensive and defensively and keep up with thief. Do i Literally have to name every one or do you play the game?DD is about the only one who can build for perm vig and be effective.. Staff at that.. And doing so still takes away from damage and such and you can't just spam evades. And with the tracking skills such as mesmer 3 or lb 2 or ele auto air scepter.. U only dodge about 2 hits and one or 2 of those hits that land hit for 3k each. Not only did we blow evades we took about lets say 5k of our 12k hp. No more evades. Do the math. Now if you're blowing all your skills instead of just autoing while a thief is blowing dodges,sounds like you need to reevaluate your gameplay.And you're mad because someone evades.. Runs away and comes back? So cap the point. Try to get thief to fight off point and range them. Keep them busy. You can't just kill everything. Sometimes just holding someone til u can 2v1 is just as effective. Or let them cap then come back and decap. It's so easy. So many different ways.

And wow so wrong thief has so many NLOS spots its ridiculous. Some you can str8 see but deemed out of sight.That being said any class that can port to some can port anywhere a thief ports to.And mesmer has a port that works just like thief.... Blink. And let's not talk mesmer utilities. Everyone can do what thief does if not better with more damage and hp

And so u see thief activated God mode.. U can step out of melee range let clones auto/shatter.. And auto range urself, and hope tthief follows as u kite his melee range using terrain and LoS leaving point while he's in God mode. And when it turns off return to point.

If he stays, stay out melee range ping map, auto attack, clones, shatter, staff 5, shield 5/4, specter 4, i mean come on u don't just face tank and die lol.If you want to further expand your game play go watch people play. Dont come to fourms asking for unnecessary nerfs.

Also if you know you'll lose a 1v1 why go take it? I know as thief if im relying on stealth do not fight a warrior with that megabane chain thing.. They have tons of cc chains, damage, reveals, and defense. I run and watch map for a teammate peeling that way. Or ping it. Or type i need help at home or whatever.And any class I can't win 1v1 I make the build use it myself. Ask for duels vs that class. Or just relentlessly attack them in FFA. To get better

[Quadox.7834]

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's always the best mobility class in this game.Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have

perma vigor

with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

Not anymore. Everyone can port offensive and defensively and keep up with thief. Do i Literally have to name every one or do you play the game?DD is about the only one who can build for perm vig and be effective.. Staff at that.. And doing so still takes away from damage and such and you can't just spam evades. And with the tracking skills such as mesmer 3 or lb 2 or ele auto air scepter.. U only dodge about 2 hits and one or 2 of those hits that land hit for 3k each. Not only did we blow evades we took about lets say 5k of our 12k hp. No more evades. Do the math. Now if you're blowing all your skills instead of just autoing while a thief is blowing dodges,sounds like you need to reevaluate your gameplay.And you're mad because someone evades.. Runs away and comes back? So cap the point. Try to get thief to fight off point and range them. Keep them busy. You can't just kill everything. Sometimes just holding someone til u can 2v1 is just as effective. Or let them cap then come back and decap. It's so easy. So many different ways.

And wow so wrong thief has so many NLOS spots its ridiculous. Some you can str8 see but deemed out of sight.That being said any class that can port to some can port anywhere a thief ports to.And mesmer has a port that works just like thief.... Blink. And let's not talk mesmer utilities. Everyone can do what thief does if not better with more damage and hp

And so u see thief activated God mode.. U can step out of melee range let clones auto/shatter.. And auto range urself, and hope tthief follows as u kite his melee range using terrain and LoS leaving point while he's in God mode. And when it turns off return to point.

If he stays, stay out melee range ping map, auto attack, clones, shatter, staff 5, shield 5/4, specter 4, i mean come on u don't just face tank and die lol.If you want to further expand your game play go watch people play. Dont come to fourms asking for unnecessary nerfs.

Also if you know you'll lose a 1v1 why go take it? I know as thief if im relying on stealth do not fight a warrior with that megabane chain thing.. They have tons of cc chains, damage, reveals, and defense. I run and watch map for a teammate peeling that way. Or ping it. Or type i need help at home or whatever.And any class I can't win 1v1 I make the build use it myself. Ask for duels vs that class. Or just relentlessly attack them in FFA. To get better

When did he talk about losing 1v1?

[viquing.8254]

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It's always the best mobility class in this game.Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have

perma vigor

with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

Not anymore. Everyone can port offensive and defensively and keep up with thief. Do i Literally have to name every one or do you play the game?Yeah I want the name of thoses who can port defensively apart staff mesmer which I already mentionnend please.DD is about the only one who can build for perm vig and be effective.. Staff at that.. And doing so still takes away from damage and such and you can't just spam evades. And with the tracking skills such as mesmer 3 or lb 2 or ele auto air scepter.. U only dodge about 2 hits and one or 2 of those hits that land hit for 3k each. Not only did we blow evades we took about lets say 5k of our 12k hp. No more evades. Do the math. Now if you're blowing all your skills instead of just autoing while a thief is blowing dodges,sounds like you need to reevaluate your gameplay.Sorry I rarely autoing a thief since they have pulmonary impact but it's bad reflexes I got.And you're mad because someone evades.. Runs away and comes back? So cap the point. Try to get thief to fight off point and range them. Keep them busy. You can't just kill everything. Sometimes just holding someone til u can 2v1 is just as effective. Or let them cap then come back and decap. It's so easy. So many different ways.Where did you see I'm mad ? I'm just enjoying discussing with thieves who are afraid loosing a god mod button and come in a mesmer section to argue about how thief get many nerf (lol), thief is bad, slow and so on. I assure you I'm pretty happy actually with a large smile on my face.And wow so wrong thief has so many NLOS spots its ridiculous. Some you can str8 see but deemed out of sight.Did you ever fight a thief on skyhammer to name the map where it's obvious ?That being said any class that can port to some can port anywhere a thief ports to.Yeah with a little higher CD though.And mesmer has a port that works just like thief.... Blink. And let's not talk mesmer utilities. Everyone can do what thief does if not better with more damage and hpYep that's why thief isn't meta since release and always lose his spot. (oops someone tells me in the headset that it's the opposite actually.)And so u see thief activated God mode.. U can step out of melee range let clones auto/shatter.. And auto range urself, and hope tthief follows as u kite his melee range using terrain and LoS leaving point while he's in God mode. And when it turns off return to point.If he stays, stay out melee range ping map, auto attack, clones, shatter, staff 5, shield 5/4, specter 4, i mean come on u don't just face tank and die lol.What ? You can step out of melee range versus a thief ???? How did you do that versus a class who auto immobilize passively, put some cripple and is under perma swiftness ? Not even counting the pletora of gap closer because it's the class design to control the in/out fight. You are facing directional keys camera player or something like this ?

If you want to further expand your game play go watch people play. Dont come to fourms asking for unnecessary nerfs.It's not unnecessary nerf but a design error for pegi 4 players.Don't come to forums defending unnecessary op skills.Also if you know you'll lose a 1v1 why go take it? I know as thief if im relying on stealth do not fight a warrior with that megabane chain thing.. They have tons of cc chains, damage, reveals, and defense. I run and watch map for a teammate peeling that way. Or ping it. Or type i need help at home or whatever.Because you know there is something called mobility that does that even if you run away from a thief when you are in +1 build, he will be on you in 3 sec.And any class I can't win 1v1 I make the build use it myself. Ask for duels vs that class. Or just relentlessly attack them in FFA. To get betterAs I said I enjoy duelling thief it's hard, it's fun. And only few didn't spam mindlessly their skills.

[viquing.8254]

Post removed because I haven't the good tone to response. Sorry for hitting sensitive souls.So I will just conclude with no personnal attacks :I tried thief.The immob is op.It tested other class only when I didn't understand something on them.Gard and rev haven't defensive teleport.I didn't need help to manage thief.I didn't know how you think I need to l2P and not you.I'm not comming here to complain but to cut off the bad faith of mourners miriades.Have a nice day.

[Stephen.6312]

@"Quadox.7834" said:ANET: posted in pvp general instead, this one can be removed / merged I guess.

Consume plasma has been the strongest stolen skill since 2012.

Lets look at the stolen skills:

• Mace crack- melee, removed with stunbreak

• Essence sap - needs target, can be dodged (though 2nd strongest stolen skill)

• Whirling axe - melee, long channel that you can get damaged in.

• Throw gunk - small radius, weak effect.

• Healing seed - stationary, has cooldown.

• Blinding tuft - short duration, s/d thief doesn't benefit much from stealth, harder to get because you need to steal on a thief, only benefits the opener/escape not mid combat.

• Ice shard - melee, can be cleansed

• Skull fear - long channel, can be dodged.

Stolen skills are either attacks that need to hit a target (and either melee or slow cast), or defense with limited useability and cooldown like healing seed. This means that the thief must take risks and be think about it in order to get value out of the 2nd stolen still from improv, by going in melee range or doing a slow channel for instance. With plasma the thief just steals, jumps behind LoS, and uses it twice. Because it doesn't need to hit a target, doesn't need LoS, doesn't need melee, doesn't need to be spread out because it stacks so well. It scales too much with improv + sleight of hand + swindler's equilibrium.

Doesn't matter the situation, thieves will steal on the mesmer to get the boons, any opportunity cost is lost because it is always worth it. Playing a squishier build (e.g. power chrono) feels like playing the floor is lava vs top thief (try facing sind, pain, etc). It feels a bit like playing the "gas station" class.

Consume plasma has recently garnered attention due to boonbeast, and surprise it is broken there as well. Just Imagine if there was a utility that gave all boons in the game, on a <20 second cooldown.

Even thematically, why does mesmer stolen skill give boons while guardian's gives daze and engi's gives etheral field? That seems backwards.

Now I am aware some will take this an april fools joke because it contains the words "thief", "broken", and "nerf". This thread is about one skill, consume plasma, not about the entire class.

(last thread got closed)

Maybe the dichotomy between plasma orb granting boons and every other stolen skill merely offering the thief an out-of-the-ordinary ability reflects Anet's initial desire to make thieves hard-counter mesmers?

[Quadox.7834]

@Stephen.6312 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:ANET: posted in pvp general instead, this one can be removed / merged I guess.

Consume plasma has been the strongest stolen skill since 2012.

Lets look at the stolen skills:

• Mace crack
  - melee, removed with stunbreak

• Essence sap
  - needs target, can be dodged (though 2nd strongest stolen skill)

• Whirling axe
  - melee, long channel that you can get damaged in.

• Throw gunk
  - small radius, weak effect.

• Healing seed
  - stationary, has cooldown.

• Blinding tuft
  - short duration, s/d thief doesn't benefit much from stealth, harder to get because you need to steal on a thief, only benefits the opener/escape not mid combat.

• Ice shard
  - melee, can be cleansed

• Skull fear
  - long channel, can be dodged.

Stolen skills are either attacks that need to hit a target (and either melee or slow cast), or defense with limited useability and cooldown like healing seed. This means that the thief must take risks and be think about it in order to get value out of the 2nd stolen still from improv, by going in melee range or doing a slow channel for instance. With plasma the thief just steals, jumps behind LoS, and uses it twice. Because it doesn't need to hit a target, doesn't need LoS, doesn't need melee, doesn't need to be spread out because it stacks so well. It scales too much with improv + sleight of hand + swindler's equilibrium.

Doesn't matter the situation, thieves will steal on the mesmer to get the boons, any opportunity cost is lost because it is

always

worth it. Playing a squishier build (e.g. power chrono) feels like playing the floor is lava vs top thief (try facing sind, pain, etc). It feels a bit like playing the "gas station" class.

Consume plasma has recently garnered attention due to boonbeast, and

surprise

it is broken there as well. Just Imagine if there was a utility that gave all boons in the game, on a <20 second cooldown.

Even thematically, why does mesmer stolen skill give boons while guardian's gives daze and engi's gives etheral field? That seems backwards.

Now I am aware some will take this an april fools joke because it contains the words "thief", "broken", and "nerf". This thread is about one skill, consume plasma, not about the entire class.

(last thread got closed)

Maybe the dichotomy between plasma orb granting boons and every other stolen skill merely offering the thief an out-of-the-ordinary ability reflects Anet's initial desire to make thieves hard-counter mesmers?

source on this initial desire?

[Quadox.7834]

yay fixd /15chars

[thundermarch.5643]

Finally m8 we did it ! Thx you and the community for highlighting the stupid overbuff that give this skill.

we may finally break free from the plasma dispenser circle x)