Why did Anet waste so much time on Kralkatorrik?

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@dodgerrule.8739 said:Zojja is dead to some of us. In fact my character had her killed.

The developers won’t have Logan or Zojja be a main part because of the end of heart of thorns.

Both Logan and Zoija are alive after HoT, no matter your pod choice.

[derd.6413]

@dodgerrule.8739 said:Zojja is dead to some of us. In fact my character had her killed.

The developers won’t have Logan or Zojja be a main part because of the end of heart of thorns.

but logan is currently head of the pac iirc. even was in thunderhead keep

[Rattengeist.8165]

How people prefer Balthazar or Joko as a villain is beyond me. Both were so cringey, they had their typical villain Clichés as in "You'll never defeat me [evil laugh]" and constant dialogues that you hear in any other movie or game. But I guess if you constantly get confronted with that specific type of villain you expect any other villain to be like this. But to each their own, I guess.

I really love Kralk as a villain. He's that type of creature that is SO beyond our powers as a player that he doesn't even bother to interract with us at all. When I first started playing GW2 like 4-ish years ago I read every information I could find as him, but there was just SO little. And all I saw ingame was this gigantic path through core tyria, completely branded. Then over the years we slowly saw more of Kralk and yet, still, he was completely beyond any reach. He probably didn't notice or didn't bother to notice the pact commander since he knew that it was just another irrelevant creature. And then, finally, the pact commander ambushes Kralk and actually does some damage.. and it seems like this is the first time that Kralk acknowledged the existence of us as a pact commander. Like a "notice me senpai" moment basically, only that he actually notices us and smacks us into the wall like a fly with one powerfull attack. The fact that he didn't say what he was thinking gives him even more personality. He probably could communicate/talk somehow, but he doesn't. He reminded us who's boss and left.

So yeah, for me Kralk has far more personality then any other villain so far. He is that one gigantic threat that we can't just defeat within a couple of story missions. I hope we don't kill him in the next episode, as this would close a gigantic "chapter" for me that I have been carrying over the past years.. then again, we still have a couple more dragons so the story will repeat itself sorta.

[kasoki.5180]

@"Rattengeist.8165" said:How people prefer Balthazar or Joko as a villain is beyond me. Both were so cringey, they had their typical villain Clichés as in "You'll never defeat me [evil laugh]" and constant dialogues that you hear in any other movie or game. But I guess if you constantly get confronted with that specific type of villain you expect any other villain to be like this. But to each their own, I guess.

I feel like its complete opposite actually. Ancient horror that periodically awakens is the new cliche in sci fi and fantasy genre. Cringy villains have become a rarity.

Thats why I personally never considered elder dragons a good story direction. Nothing really interesting or original about them (to me). Actually, the All is the most interesting thing about them imo

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@mDane.7182 said:I think this is exactly what Kralkatorrik's personality is. Acting like the Elder Dragon he is; menacing, world ending and thinks that everything is beneath him, that there is not a need to communicate and to understand his intentions/plans.

This is also the same for the other Elder Dragons, everything is just a means to them and the destruction of the world around being just an after effect of their true goal - which is to consume all magic.

What made the first two Elder Dragon's interesting is that they had champions or agents that communicate with us. Unique among them are the agents of Zhaitan and the Sylvari which Mordremoth corrupted. And i think, i could be wrong here, they chose to communicate in some form because they see us as a threat to their plans. While Kralk just doesnt care and goes about his business as usual without so much letting us know what his motives are making him bland in that sense.

I always don't get why did ppl think Kralkatorrik is more menacing, Destiny's Edge and Balzhazar both almost killed him.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Firstly, we cannot properly separate where the risen's tactics end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin (and we do know there's a difference as Mordremoth is said to be the only Elder Dragon to micromanage minions). We also know that Zhaitan was not literally "staring at people" through Whiting and other minions because that's literally why Eyes of Zhaitan exist - to be direct and real-time visual surveillance for Zhaitan. Zhaitan's being "behind the eyes" of the risen was more a metaphor to represent that there was a force empowering them.

Sure, Zhaitan caused the huge tsunami and turned many people into risen, but Kralkatorrik created the Dragonbrand and corrupted as good a number of people - all on par to Mordremoth's initial vine spreading or Jormag shattering the Far Shiverpeaks. They're all on par there. They all have a moment of activity.

And it'd be debatable just how "almost got killed" Kralkatorrik was, since the group focused on a one-shot kill tactic. But as you noted, it's right after his awakening, when he was at his literal weakest. And Balthazar did put a lot of effort, he waged war across the entire Crystal Desert and northern Elona, had to find his exact weakness, and march an army to Kralkatorrik's stronghold. Balthazar basically did the exact same things that the Pact did against Zhaitan. It doesn't seem like much, because we spent more time fighting Forged who had already killed so many branded, rather than fighting the branded ourselves. Balthazar, the Warbeast, and the Forged were to Kralkatorrik as the Commander, Glory of Tyria, and the Pact were to Zhaitan. Both groups did about equal amount of battle and effort. Balthazar had cleared the path off-screen, and we marched through the aftermath.

It's Zhaitan's army, of course it's his command.

Not really, he surely could know stuff through his champion, just the Eyes do it better. He can see through his champions if he want, just usually not doing so.

Zhaitan took a megaship and super laser while the fight was easy in the game. Mordremoth took an army outside and a group inside his mind, Kralkatorrik was not really deal compare to them, and remember when Balthazar was taking on him, he already absorbed both Zhaitan and Mordremoth' strength, yet he couldn't do much to help himself.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@"Rattengeist.8165" said:How people prefer Balthazar or Joko as a villain is beyond me. Both were so cringey, they had their typical villain Clichés as in "You'll never defeat me [evil laugh]" and constant dialogues that you hear in any other movie or game. But I guess if you constantly get confronted with that specific type of villain you expect any other villain to be like this. But to each their own, I guess.

I really love Kralk as a villain. He's that type of creature that is SO beyond our powers as a player that he doesn't even bother to interract with us at all. When I first started playing GW2 like 4-ish years ago I read every information I could find as him, but there was just SO little. And all I saw ingame was this gigantic path through core tyria, completely branded. Then over the years we slowly saw more of Kralk and yet, still, he was completely beyond any reach. He probably didn't notice or didn't bother to notice the pact commander since he knew that it was just another irrelevant creature. And then, finally, the pact commander ambushes Kralk and actually does some damage.. and it seems like this is the first time that Kralk acknowledged the existence of us as a pact commander. Like a "notice me senpai" moment basically, only that he actually notices us and smacks us into the wall like a fly with one powerfull attack. The fact that he didn't say what he was thinking gives him even more personality. He probably could communicate/talk somehow, but he doesn't. He reminded us who's boss and left.

So yeah, for me Kralk has far more personality then any other villain so far. He is that one gigantic threat that we can't just defeat within a couple of story missions. I hope we don't kill him in the next episode, as this would close a gigantic "chapter" for me that I have been carrying over the past years.. then again, we still have a couple more dragons so the story will repeat itself sorta.

Not really, Destiny's Edge nearly killed him with Glint's help and he needed our help to not being killed by Balthazar.

[Teratus.2859]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

Zhaitan was boring, fighting waves and waves of mostly dumb undead who kept throwing themselves to their doom.Zhaitan was far more mindlessly Kill and devour than Kralkatorrik is..

Kralkatorrik is far more malevolent and vicious than Zhaitan was.. while Zhaitan hid behind his hordes of undead until he was forced into a direct conflict,Kralkatorrik personally persues and hunts his prey and fights along side his minions as we saw in Vabbi, in the Mists and in Thunderhead Keep, as well as read in the novels where he personally hunted down and killed Glint with his own jaws.Kralkatorrik has a lot more history with many members of our Story Guild.. more so than the other Dragons so there's a lot of good reason why he's had so much attention and why he is the only dragon so far that's been built up to be an unstopable force of death.

Zhaitan and Mordremoth were both pushed back.. Zhaitan specifically was constantly pushed back over and over and over again until we breached Orr, His only big victory's being Claw Island and Fort Trinity which were both overturned shortly after and he was driven back.Mordrmeoth had a few wins too including the big devestation of the pact fleet but he too suffered many setbacks and was pushed back to his core and defeated in a forced direct conflict similarly to how Zhaitan was.Kralkatorrik has been a royal pain in our butts since we fed him a God.. he unleashes destruction everywhere he goes including tearing apart time and reality which no other Dragon has so far been able to do, he has also constantly been in a state of direct conflict since he entered the mists, actively hunting his prey and eradicating everything in his path, and he has been an absolute beast to take down.. no matter what we do to him he just refuses to die.He's the only Dragon who has personally kicked our butts badly enough to leave our PC utterly beaten and broken..He's by far the best Dragon thus far.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Teratus.2859 said:Zhaitan was boring, fighting waves and waves of mostly dumb undead who kept throwing themselves to their doom.Zhaitan was far more mindlessly Kill and devour than Kralkatorrik is..

Kralkatorrik is far more malevolent and vicious than Zhaitan was.. while Zhaitan hid behind his hordes of undead until he was forced into a direct conflict,Kralkatorrik personally persues and hunts his prey and fights along side his minions as we saw in Vabbi, in the Mists and in Thunderhead Keep, as well as read in the novels where he personally hunted down and killed Glint with his own jaws.Kralkatorrik has a lot more history with many members of our Story Guild.. more so than the other Dragons so there's a lot of good reason why he's had so much attention and why he is the only dragon so far that's been built up to be an unstopable force of death.

Zhaitan and Mordremoth were both pushed back.. Zhaitan specifically was constantly pushed back over and over and over again until we breached Orr, His only big victory's being Claw Island and Fort Trinity which were both overturned shortly after and he was driven back.Mordrmeoth had a few wins too including the big devestation of the pact fleet but he too suffered many setbacks and was pushed back to his core and defeated in a forced direct conflict similarly to how Zhaitan was.Kralkatorrik has been a royal pain in our butts since we fed him a God.. he unleashes destruction everywhere he goes including tearing apart time and reality which no other Dragon has so far been able to do, he has also constantly been in a state of direct conflict since he entered the mists, actively hunting his prey and eradicating everything in his path, and he has been an absolute beast to take down.. no matter what we do to him he just refuses to die.He's the only Dragon who has personally kicked our butts badly enough to leave our PC utterly beaten and broken..He's by far the best Dragon thus far.

No, a lot of the Risen are very cunning and have their tactics, unlike the Branded.

Kralkatorrik would have been dead right after his awakening if Logan wasn't stupid, and he would have been dead in PoF if we didn't save him, and that's after he had absorbed the 2 dragons' power.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Firstly, we cannot properly separate where the risen's tactics end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin (and we do know there's a difference as Mordremoth is said to be the only Elder Dragon to micromanage minions). We also know that Zhaitan was not literally "staring at people" through Whiting and other minions because that's literally why Eyes of Zhaitan exist - to be direct and real-time visual surveillance for Zhaitan. Zhaitan's being "behind the eyes" of the risen was more a metaphor to represent that there was a force empowering them.

Sure, Zhaitan caused the huge tsunami and turned many people into risen, but Kralkatorrik created the Dragonbrand and corrupted as good a number of people - all on par to Mordremoth's initial vine spreading or Jormag shattering the Far Shiverpeaks. They're all on par there. They all have a moment of activity.

And it'd be debatable just how "almost got killed" Kralkatorrik was, since the group focused on a one-shot kill tactic. But as you noted, it's right after his awakening, when he was at his literal weakest. And Balthazar did put a lot of effort, he waged war across the entire Crystal Desert and northern Elona, had to find his exact weakness, and march an army to Kralkatorrik's stronghold. Balthazar basically did the exact same things that the Pact did against Zhaitan. It doesn't seem like much, because we spent more time fighting Forged who had already killed so many branded, rather than fighting the branded ourselves. Balthazar, the Warbeast, and the Forged were to Kralkatorrik as the Commander, Glory of Tyria, and the Pact were to Zhaitan. Both groups did about equal amount of battle and effort. Balthazar had cleared the path off-screen, and we marched through the aftermath.

It's Zhaitan's army, of course it's his command.

Not really, he surely could know stuff through his champion, just the Eyes do it better. He can see through his champions if he want, just usually not doing so.

Zhaitan took a megaship and super laser while the fight was easy in the game. Mordremoth took an army outside and a group inside his mind, Kralkatorrik was not really deal compare to them, and remember when Balthazar was taking on him, he already absorbed both Zhaitan and Mordremoth' strength, yet he couldn't do much to help himself.

And somehow, we pulled out all of the stops in order to kill Kralk, and he ended up removing our most powerful weapon from future combat, with only the (temporary?) loss of an eye. Its all a difference of opinion, no one is right or wrong.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Klowdy.3126 said:And somehow, we pulled out all of the stops in order to kill Kralk, and he ended up removing our most powerful weapon from future combat, with only the (temporary?) loss of an eye. Its all a difference of opinion, no one is right or wrong.

Not really, if we had Glory of Tyria or Glint's spear Kralkatorrik would have been done as well.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:And somehow, we pulled out all of the stops in order to kill Kralk, and he ended up removing our most powerful weapon from future combat, with only the (temporary?) loss of an eye. Its all a difference of opinion, no one is right or wrong.

Not really, if we had Glory of Tyria or Glint's spear Kralkatorrik would have been done as well.

If we had the power of 1000 gods, we could have destroyed him easily as well, but we didn't. If we had all three dragons still alive, we could have won with no problem. It's a moot point bringing up things that could have happened with nonexistent things. We fought him with all we had, and we lost.

[Trise.2865]

It's only a waste if there is no payoff. The story isn't over yet.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Firstly, we cannot properly separate where the risen's tactics end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin (and we do know there's a difference as Mordremoth is said to be the only Elder Dragon to micromanage minions). We also know that Zhaitan was not literally "staring at people" through Whiting and other minions because that's literally why Eyes of Zhaitan exist - to be direct and real-time visual surveillance for Zhaitan. Zhaitan's being "behind the eyes" of the risen was more a metaphor to represent that there was a force empowering them.

Sure, Zhaitan caused the huge tsunami and turned many people into risen, but Kralkatorrik created the Dragonbrand and corrupted as good a number of people - all on par to Mordremoth's initial vine spreading or Jormag shattering the Far Shiverpeaks. They're all on par there. They all have a moment of activity.

And it'd be debatable just how "almost got killed" Kralkatorrik was, since the group focused on a one-shot kill tactic. But as you noted, it's right after his awakening, when he was at his literal weakest. And Balthazar did put a lot of effort, he waged war across the entire Crystal Desert and northern Elona, had to find his exact weakness, and march an army to Kralkatorrik's stronghold. Balthazar basically did the exact same things that the Pact did against Zhaitan. It doesn't seem like much, because we spent more time fighting Forged who had already killed so many branded, rather than fighting the branded ourselves. Balthazar, the Warbeast, and the Forged were to Kralkatorrik as the Commander, Glory of Tyria, and the Pact were to Zhaitan. Both groups did about equal amount of battle and effort. Balthazar had cleared the path off-screen, and we marched through the aftermath.

It's Zhaitan's army, of course it's his command.

Not really, he surely could know stuff through his champion, just the Eyes do it better. He can see through his champions if he want, just usually not doing so.

Zhaitan took a megaship and super laser while the fight was easy in the game. Mordremoth took an army outside and a group inside his mind, Kralkatorrik was not really deal compare to them, and remember when Balthazar was taking on him, he already absorbed both Zhaitan and Mordremoth' strength, yet he couldn't do much to help himself.

It was actually established by ArenaNet devs ages ago (like back in 2012 pre-release) that the Elder Dragons do not manage or command their armies directly. They send out their will, which is then interpreted by their dragon champions (individuals like Whiting, Tequatl, Blightghast, etc.) who in turn command the armies.

Because the champions act on interpretations, we cannot accurately separate where the risen's tactic's end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin. As I said, the only Elder Dragon shown to micromanage minions is Mordremoth. Edge of Destiny shows this well with Kralkatorrik, where his command was "kill the mind invading mine [snaff]" to his minions. His minions, lacking a champion, just rushed that mind; but when Kralkatorrik's command was, earlier on, "move south", Chief Kronon interpreted that as "attack Ebonhawke which is south of the branded army" instead of "move south to attack the traitorous Glint".

Zhaitan, like all Elder Dragons, know what their minions know. But the Eyes of Zhaitan allowed Zhaitan to see what they saw. That's the difference between Eyes and other minions. There's a difference between knowing "there is a human hiding behind boxes to the left of minion xyz at location xyz" and being able to actively see that human hiding in real time. Whiting and the other crew members of the Indomitable merely had their minds connected to Zhaitan's will, but Zhaitan did not see what they saw.

As for that last paragraph, you're grossly understating what it took to take out Kralkatorrik. "Kralkatorrik took an army of two united continents and bombardments of his own unique weakness, being drained of energy, and still survived. Twice."

In Path of Fire, Kralkatorrik hadn't yet learned how to use Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's domains, as shown by the lack of death-branded in PoF. He only learned that after the battle with Balthazar (perhaps the battle with Balthazar pressured Kralkatorrik into utilizing them at last). Similar to how he didn't know how to use Balthazar's magic immediately - the same goes for Primordus and Mordremoth with the magic they gained, they took a bit of time to learn how to use them.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:And somehow, we pulled out all of the stops in order to kill Kralk, and he ended up removing our most powerful weapon from future combat, with only the (temporary?) loss of an eye. Its all a difference of opinion, no one is right or wrong.

Not really, if we had Glory of Tyria or Glint's spear Kralkatorrik would have been done as well.

100% untrue for the Glory of Tyria. That was geared - unintentionally - to be counter-Zhaitan. It wouldn't have worked on other Elder Dragons.

Glint's Spear, maybe, but that's like saying "if only we killed Mordremoth in his mind instead of sending in a fleet, he'd have been done". "If only we use ancient fire magic on Jormag, then he'd be done as well". "If only we used powerful ice magic on Primordus, then he'd be done as well".

We did use Kralkatorrik's weakness against him, in a similar manner that we used Zhaitan's against him without really realizing it, and Kralkatorrik wasn't "done as well".

[lezbefriends.7516]

“Why did ANet waste so much time on Kralkatorrik?”

Because if you people actually read the Lore, you’d know he’s the most powerful Elder Dragon? Not to mention that makes him the most powerful villain in the game?

[Teratus.2859]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Zhaitan was boring, fighting waves and waves of mostly dumb undead who kept throwing themselves to their doom.Zhaitan was far more mindlessly Kill and devour than Kralkatorrik is..

Kralkatorrik is far more malevolent and vicious than Zhaitan was.. while Zhaitan hid behind his hordes of undead until he was forced into a direct conflict,Kralkatorrik personally persues and hunts his prey and fights along side his minions as we saw in Vabbi, in the Mists and in Thunderhead Keep, as well as read in the novels where he personally hunted down and killed Glint with his own jaws.Kralkatorrik has a lot more history with many members of our Story Guild.. more so than the other Dragons so there's a lot of good reason why he's had so much attention and why he is the only dragon so far that's been built up to be an unstopable force of death.

Zhaitan and Mordremoth were both pushed back.. Zhaitan specifically was constantly pushed back over and over and over again until we breached Orr, His only big victory's being Claw Island and Fort Trinity which were both overturned shortly after and he was driven back.Mordrmeoth had a few wins too including the big devestation of the pact fleet but he too suffered many setbacks and was pushed back to his core and defeated in a forced direct conflict similarly to how Zhaitan was.Kralkatorrik has been a royal pain in our butts since we fed him a God.. he unleashes destruction everywhere he goes including tearing apart time and reality which no other Dragon has so far been able to do, he has also constantly been in a state of direct conflict since he entered the mists, actively hunting his prey and eradicating everything in his path, and he has been an absolute beast to take down.. no matter what we do to him he just refuses to die.He's the only Dragon who has personally kicked our butts badly enough to leave our PC utterly beaten and broken..He's by far the best Dragon thus far.

No, a lot of the Risen are very cunning and have their tactics, unlike the Branded.

Kralkatorrik would have been dead right after his awakening if Logan wasn't stupid, and he would have been dead in PoF if we didn't save him, and that's after he had absorbed the 2 dragons' power.

Not very cunning tbh, many of them senslessly threw themselves to the slaughter like a typical zombie horde.Zhaitans will is all that matters and a total lack of self preservation.. etc

The only real cunning was choosing their targets and a few good ambush's.. carried out by higher ranking undead such as wraiths etcMost of Zhaitans minions were pretty mindless like the bulk of Branded and Destroyers are.. and as I said Zhaitan never took a direct role in his conquest until he was forced to, prefering to hide away and consume whatever his minions could find for him.The Mordrem were far more cunning imo but the branded are much like a horde as well, But Kralkatorrik unlike Zhaitan isn't afraid to make a direct appearance until forced to, He personally hunts his prey and obliterates anything in his path.Zhaitan is kinda like a gluttonous commander hiding behind his army until the enemies are at the gates..Kralkatorrik is more like a commander who fights along side his troops but raher than deal with his enemies in a war he'd rather just nuke the battlefield.. which makes him significantly more dangerous.

[Kodokuna Akuma.9570]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@"Zeivu.3615" said:Kralkatorrik is a major tie-in to a lot of world building and story arcs. Destiny's Edge's plot was based on it. The Vigil was formed because of them and then went to form the Pact. Glint's legacy is based on it. The stories involving Aurene are based on it. Balthazar is involved in it. Kralkatorrik needs this time. It's important.

Itself and its minions are not interesting, regardless of how many major faction is related, it's not gonna work.

The point is, he may not be a perticularly interesting villan per say and his minions do not have much personality. But ol kralkys brand and presence represents just the pure devestation of the elderdragons. Its not about raising the dead to destroy the living. Its not about spreading its roots and reach throughtout all of tyria for control. Its about laying waste to all in its path. In my eyes kralk is not seeking to "dominate" tyria like the other dragons can be seen doing instead I belive it to be of the mindset that it already owns what lays before it, why seek to claim what is already yours after all.

He doesnt need character, he doesnt need interest he just represents what is a Elder dragon, a force of nature. What makes him interesting is the stories intertwined with his, the people who are inadvertently linked with him. Hes a simple creature after all with simple goals, the consumtion of magic, its hard to spin this fact interestingly. He is the linchpin needed in order for these interesting stories to happen.

[Tyson.5160]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@mDane.7182 said:I think this is exactly what Kralkatorrik's personality is. Acting like the Elder Dragon he is; menacing, world ending and thinks that everything is beneath him, that there is not a need to communicate and to understand his intentions/plans.

This is also the same for the other Elder Dragons, everything is just a means to them and the destruction of the world around being just an after effect of their true goal - which is to consume all magic.

What made the first two Elder Dragon's interesting is that they had champions or agents that communicate with us. Unique among them are the agents of Zhaitan and the Sylvari which Mordremoth corrupted. And i think, i could be wrong here, they chose to communicate in some form because they see us as a threat to their plans. While Kralk just doesnt care and goes about his business as usual without so much letting us know what his motives are making him bland in that sense.

I always don't get why did ppl think Kralkatorrik is more menacing, Destiny's Edge and Balzhazar both almost killed him.

Almost is not killing. Look at it this way, Kralkatorrik has three battles, which he was almost killed, but he wasn’t. You could say wow this guy is really weak or this dragon is a friggin truck. You have the fight with destiny’s edge, which Kralkatorrik won, you have the fight with Balthazar, which you could say was another win since he got all that energy. Now you have the battle in last episode, which was another win for a direct battle with the dragon, this to me, shows how strong and menacing this dragon is.

Look at the direct fights with Zhaitan and Mordremoth, which results in a win first try.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@mDane.7182 said:I think this is exactly what Kralkatorrik's personality is. Acting like the Elder Dragon he is; menacing, world ending and thinks that everything is beneath him, that there is not a need to communicate and to understand his intentions/plans.

This is also the same for the other Elder Dragons, everything is just a means to them and the destruction of the world around being just an after effect of their true goal - which is to consume all magic.

What made the first two Elder Dragon's interesting is that they had champions or agents that communicate with us. Unique among them are the agents of Zhaitan and the Sylvari which Mordremoth corrupted. And i think, i could be wrong here, they chose to communicate in some form because they see us as a threat to their plans. While Kralk just doesnt care and goes about his business as usual without so much letting us know what his motives are making him bland in that sense.

I always don't get why did ppl think Kralkatorrik is more menacing, Destiny's Edge and Balzhazar both almost killed him.

Almost is not killing. Look at it this way, Kralkatorrik has three battles, which he was almost killed, but he wasn’t. You could say wow this guy is really weak or this dragon is a friggin truck. You have the fight with destiny’s edge, which Kralkatorrik won, you have the fight with Balthazar, which you could say was another win since he got all that energy. Now you have the battle in last episode, which was another win for a direct battle with the dragon, this to me, shows how strong and menacing this dragon is.

Look at the direct fights with Zhaitan and Mordremoth, which results in a win first try.He wasn't because others either went stupid or we helped him. Not because of his own strength.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Mortifera.6138 said:“Why did ANet waste so much time on Kralkatorrik?”

Because if you people actually read the Lore, you’d know he’s the most powerful Elder Dragon? Not to mention that makes him the most powerful villain in the game?

Not really, like I've pointed out, he would have been dead right after awakening by Destiny's Edge if Logan was there.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:It was actually established by ArenaNet devs ages ago (like back in 2012 pre-release) that the Elder Dragons do not manage or command their armies directly. They send out their will, which is then interpreted by their dragon champions (individuals like Whiting, Tequatl, Blightghast, etc.) who in turn command the armies.

Because the champions act on interpretations, we cannot accurately separate where the risen's tactic's end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin. As I said, the only Elder Dragon shown to micromanage minions is Mordremoth. Edge of Destiny shows this well with Kralkatorrik, where his command was "kill the mind invading mine [snaff]" to his minions. His minions, lacking a champion, just rushed that mind; but when Kralkatorrik's command was, earlier on, "move south", Chief Kronon interpreted that as "attack Ebonhawke which is south of the branded army" instead of "move south to attack the traitorous Glint".

Zhaitan, like all Elder Dragons, know what their minions know. But the Eyes of Zhaitan allowed Zhaitan to see what they saw. That's the difference between Eyes and other minions. There's a difference between knowing "there is a human hiding behind boxes to the left of minion xyz at location xyz" and being able to actively see that human hiding in real time. Whiting and the other crew members of the Indomitable merely had their minds connected to Zhaitan's will, but Zhaitan did not see what they saw.

As for that last paragraph, you're grossly understating what it took to take out Kralkatorrik. "Kralkatorrik took an army of two united continents and bombardments of his own unique weakness, being drained of energy, and still survived. Twice."

In Path of Fire, Kralkatorrik hadn't yet learned how to use Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's domains, as shown by the lack of death-branded in PoF. He only learned that after the battle with Balthazar (perhaps the battle with Balthazar pressured Kralkatorrik into utilizing them at last). Similar to how he didn't know how to use Balthazar's magic immediately - the same goes for Primordus and Mordremoth with the magic they gained, they took a bit of time to learn how to use them.

The novel obviously showed Zhaitan was aware of his his minions' doing and many orders were carried by him.

100% untrue for the Glory of Tyria. That was geared - unintentionally - to be counter-Zhaitan. It wouldn't have worked on other Elder Dragons.

Glint's Spear, maybe, but that's like saying "if only we killed Mordremoth in his mind instead of sending in a fleet, he'd have been done". "If only we use ancient fire magic on Jormag, then he'd be done as well". "If only we used powerful ice magic on Primordus, then he'd be done as well".

We did use Kralkatorrik's weakness against him, in a similar manner that we used Zhaitan's against him without really realizing it, and Kralkatorrik wasn't "done as well".It was made of dragon energy, which would work on Kralkatorrik as well.

Mordremoth didn't just take the mind fight, we did send an army to battle him outside.

Because we didn't use it well enough, unlike Balthazar have done.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:The novel obviously showed Zhaitan was aware of his his minions' doing and many orders were carried by him.

With the exception of Zhaitan's awakening, the novel never once directly shows what Zhaitan was doing, and it never once showed what Zhaitan was thinking, unlike Edge of Destiny.

100% untrue for the Glory of Tyria. That was geared - unintentionally - to be counter-Zhaitan. It wouldn't have worked on other Elder Dragons.

Glint's Spear, maybe, but that's like saying "if only we killed Mordremoth in his mind instead of sending in a fleet, he'd have been done". "If only we use ancient fire magic on Jormag, then he'd be done as well". "If only we used powerful ice magic on Primordus, then he'd be done as well".

We did use Kralkatorrik's weakness against him, in a similar manner that we used Zhaitan's against him without really realizing it, and Kralkatorrik wasn't "done as well".It was made of dragon energy, which would work on Kralkatorrik as well.

Mordremoth didn't just take the mind fight, we did send an army to battle him outside.

Because we didn't use it well enough, unlike Balthazar have done.

Mordremoth's weakness was solely due to the mind battle. The army outside merely distracted him. It played no real role in killing him until we severed his connection to the Dream / killed his mind (whichever is one's interpretation, Anet's left it ambiguous enough).

And Kralkatorrik was far more harmed by his battle against the Commander than the battle against Balthazar. Kralkatorrik survived the second time because he had grown far more powerful due to consuming magic in the Mists. He wouldn't have survived the fight with Balthazar had it not been for the Commander (most likely) but that's because he was far weaker too.

Again, you're being obviously biased against Kralkatorrik and overstating the difficulty of battling Zhaitan/Mordremoth compared to Kralkatorrik, as well as overstating the role of their tactics (especially Zhaitan's).

[Chasind.3128]

I don't feel anything has been wasted but the potential of the story itself. It's very bland & transparent at times. There was some mild satisfaction over what Aurene did to Joko but I wasn't throwing grenades of excitement like some people.When the time came, you could guess & expect Aurene was going to meet her demise so it was strange when people acted entirely devestated. I did feel bad for her, but I wasn't heart broken. How are people going to react when she comes back because she absorbed Jokos powers?
For me, it wasn't this huge event of a story, I typically blaze through when I can because alot of it is transparent. The characters aren't exciting. The commander is written as bad & stoic as captain marvel at times.
Nothing about this grips me like an old Bioware story would, like Dragon Age origins or Mass Effect 1 or 2. You actually felt things for these characters. I hate that that's what I expect VS what I get; which is just shy of a mediocre fanfic you'd read from tumblr. There are some elements to the story that I would consider great but it's seemingly far & few between but less recently (so, thats good)I was told to stop expecting great by some of the community & shoot for mediocre which is how it's meant to be for time constraint purposes.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Mordremoth's weakness was solely due to the mind battle. The army outside merely distracted him. It played no real role in killing him until we severed his connection to the Dream / killed his mind (whichever is one's interpretation, Anet's left it ambiguous enough).

Obviously Zhaitan was commanding his army based on the novel's description.

Not true, we killed his physical body as well. Without it the mind fight would not succeed and he had taken damage both from outside and inside. Without his physical body slain, he would still be there.

And Kralkatorrik was far more harmed by his battle against the Commander than the battle against Balthazar. Kralkatorrik survived the second time because he had grown far more powerful due to consuming magic in the Mists. He wouldn't have survived the fight with Balthazar had it not been for the Commander (most likely) but that's because he was far weaker too.

Again, you're being obviously biased against Kralkatorrik and overstating the difficulty of battling Zhaitan/Mordremoth compared to Kralkatorrik, as well as overstating the role of their tactics (especially Zhaitan's).

Yeah he took so much power boost thanks to us, and hist original form was really pathetic.

Kralkatorrik would have been dead right after his awakening if not for Logan's stupidity, none of this happened to the other 2. Both Zhaitan and Mordremoth took far much more effort.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

I don't hate Kralkatorrik more than other dragons, I just think his story has been too long and boring so we need to get it done soon.