What tradeoff would you like to see?

[Euthymias.7984]

I think Soulbeast already has a reasoable tradeoff.You gain merging skills/stats but lose the utility and additional (albeit often underwhelming) cover/pressure of the pet while merged. You're also locked out of Beast Mode for 10 seconds after coming out of that state so you have to do a bit of management in deciding when to use those skills/swap pets to access the other ones instead of just camping one pet/merge archetype. However, I feel like its still a pure upgrade vs Core just because between Core and Soulbeast, pets dont really change themselves, so I can agree that pets should get something special for being a core ranger.

In a way, I'd like to see something like a customization option to turn (or buff) the pets into different archetypes like their GW1 counterpart (Dire/Elder/Hearty) with a new command thats usable out of combat to give them a noticeable stat increase while being Core. While Elder is the default, Dire could increase their overall damage and attack rate/movement speed while giving them a slight defense reduction and Hearty could make them more durable at the cost of less damage (as particularly in PvP/WvW, the common complaint was about how fast they die to just random cleave/AoE). Naturally, Soulbeast/Druid would be defaulted to "Elder" (or just make Druid stuck with Hearty instead of cutting everything down by 20%.....) and not have any ability to change from that archetype like Core could.Its just an idea, but I think it would be pretty cool.

[Durzlla.6295]

@"Euthymias.7984" said:I think Soulbeast already has a reasoable tradeoff.You gain merging skills/stats but lose the utility and additional (albeit often underwhelming) cover/pressure of the pet while merged. You're also locked out of Beast Mode for 10 seconds after coming out of that state so you have to do a bit of management in deciding when to use those skills/swap pets to access the other ones instead of just camping one pet/merge archetype. However, I feel like its still a pure upgrade vs Core just because between Core and Soulbeast, pets dont really change themselves, so I can agree that pets should get something special for being a core ranger.

In a way, I'd like to see something like a customization option to turn (or buff) the pets into different archetypes like their GW1 counterpart (Dire/Elder/Hearty) with a new command thats usable out of combat to give them a noticeable stat increase while being Core. While Elder is the default, Dire could increase their overall damage and attack rate/movement speed while giving them a slight defense reduction and Hearty could make them more durable at the cost of less damage (as particularly in PvP/WvW, the common complaint was about how fast they die to just random cleave/AoE). Naturally, Soulbeast/Druid would be defaulted to "Elder" (or just make Druid stuck with Hearty instead of cutting everything down by 20%.....) and not have any ability to change from that archetype like Core could.Its just an idea, but I think it would be pretty cool.

The thing is that’s not a REAL drawback, that’s like saying the drawback to Celestial avatar is that you lose access to your damaging abilities, and you have to build up energy to use it, or that continuum split shatters your clones. Yes, those are both drawbacks of the skill, but those are hardly drawbacks of the elite spec as a whole, that’s an entirely new ability you get to freely use at no real cost. If that were a real drawback you would actually see core ranger builds, instead of them literally all becoming soulbeast builds because you just gain utility by slotting Soulbeast.

However I do like the idea of being able to tweak what kind of pet you’re bringing and have always liked such ideas, and do agree if that were implemented Druid should just be forced to use tanky pets due to like, magic making them tanky and the Druid not having time to train them into being more aggressive or w/e Anet wants to say is the lore eexcuse for the healer not doing damage without being squishy. But I don’t think it’d be the fix all you’re thinking it would be.

[Euthymias.7984]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

The thing is that’s not a REAL drawback, that’s like saying the drawback to Celestial avatar is that you lose access to your damaging abilities, and you have to build up energy to use it, or that continuum split shatters your clones. Yes, those are both drawbacks of the skill, but those are hardly drawbacks of the elite spec as a whole, that’s an entirely new ability you get to freely use at no real cost. If that were a real drawback you would actually see core ranger builds, instead of them literally all becoming soulbeast builds because you just gain utility by slotting Soulbeast.

Yeah, I totally understand that. As you said, its a similar case with Chronomancer / Druid in that its just a straight up improvement of its base counterpart (which I agreed with about Soulbeast regarding Core). I'm just taking an approach to making the base have something unique that keeps it attractive enough to consider against Elite Specs vs stripping the Elites themselves for the sake of a tradeoff. Something of a similar approach to what they've done with Rev with its new F2 vs Herald / Renegade F-skills to that effort. I'd like to see something done with similar flavor and impact for base Engineer as well, but I wouldnt know where to start there. Maybe they'll just make Scrapper ditch the toolbelt for Function Gyro related F-skills instead or something....Unless some of them end up getting reworked to account for tradeoffs much like Berserker has recently.

[dodgerrule.8739]

I’d like to see a trade off where all classes get an elite spec that limits them to one weapon

[MithranArkanere.8957]

As I mentioned in the update preview, I'd like trade-offs for the remaining 4 elite specializations without a profession mechanic trade-off that allows making changes to core without elites inheriting the changes, to give something that can be buffed to give some extra power to core separately:

• Engineer - Scrapper

  • Scrapper could use a profession mechanic that is more widely useful in more of PvE since you do not usually need to finish enemies in PvE, and you don't need to revive anyone if everyone is doing their job properly. For example, replacing the Scrapper's F5 toolbelt skill from the elite skill with an "Action Gyro" that stays over the other shoulder of the engineer, and lunges at enemies to deal damage, and that has a bonus functionality and gains charges based on the selected Scrapper Grandmaster trait instead on a fixed time:
  • Action Gyro: Deals damage to target enemy. Maximum count of 3 charges. 5s recharge. Charges can only be earned once every 15 seconds.
    • Adaptive Armor: Action Gyro gains a charge for every 33% of their base health lost. Action Gyro now also gives some barrier and removes a condition.
    • Kinetic Stabilizers: Action Gyro gains a charge whenever an enemy is interrupted (and when hitting enemies with a breakbar,). Action Gyro is now a stun break and stuns the target.
    • Applied Force: Action Gyro gains a charge whenever Applied Force triggers. Action Gyro is now a Blast Finisher, an Explosion, and an Aoe that deals 33% of the main damage to 4 enemies around the main target.
  • This way, core F5 skills could be greatly improved as they'd be exclusive to core engineer.

• Soulbeast

  • Soulbeast can't use their pets while merged, but their pet mechanic is identical while not in beastmode. So it's an addition, not a tradeoff. Reducing pet stats would be a bad idea for an elite specialization more meant to do DPS, but since beastmode heals the pet when leaving, that's basically like having an extra pet swap. With that in mind, their tradeoff could be a longer pet recharge on defeat as they have two skills to keep the pet from dying, making it riskier.
    But going too high over 60s would be a a tad too long for pet recharge, so instead core ranger could have their pet recharge on death reduced to just 25-45s, while soulbeast and druid would have 60-75s recharge for their pet, and that would help newbies get their pet back sooner as they level up in core maps.
  • Another possibility is giving core ranger an F5 skill that does something that isn't spectacularly strong, but at least unique. For example, using F5 as core ranger could make both your pets do 'tag-combo' attack. You use F5, the other pet appears, both pets use their pet skills, and the pets swap places, like the tag-combo attacks in games like Capcom vs Marvel.

• Mesmer x2

  • Mesmers don't lose anything when specializing. Since their shatters represent "power", "condi", "CC" and "tank", maybe they could get a 5th shatter that would be "utility", a core-only F5 skill that does something like creating a clone with your alternate weapon set instead with the current, or that shuffles their location with a random clone.
    Then Chronomancer would replace it, and mirage lose it.

---

I would also like to see one unique effect for each core specialization that is active only when that specialization is slotted in the Gold-framed third specialization slot.That'll ensure core always has some powers elites won't ever have, a few more choices, and it'll make relevant what you put in that slot even for core, so core players learn to value that slot as they level up:

For example, it could be effects like these. But bear in mind these are just examples:

• Guardian:
  • Zeal : Virtue of Justice reduces the recharge of symbols by 1s when it triggers.
  • Radiance: When burning caused by you is removed, it causes Burningx3 for 3s on whoever removed it. (9s recharge)
  • Valor: Aegis applied to you now blocks up to 3 attacks for 0.75s after being attacked instead a single attack.
  • Honor: Gain 1% endurance regen for each boon on you.
  • Virtues : Gain the Virtue of Humilty, a toggle skill that when toggled on makes Virtue of Justice give mightx3 for 8s instead causing burning.
• Revenant:
  • Corruption : Attacking an enemy with 5 or more boons corrupts one of the boons. (9s recharge)
  • Retribution: Gain Vigor when Stability is removed before it ends (9s recharge).
  • Salvation: Gain 25% outgoing healing on allies within the area of your Ventary tablet.
  • Devastation: Vulnerability caused by you can only be partially removed. 1/3 of the stack will survive removal, conversion or transference and remain in the enemy.
  • Invocation: Gain increased energy while out of combat (+25).
• Warrior:
  • Strength: Gain 10 endurance when taking damage. (5s recharge)
  • Arms: Attacking bleeding enemies extends the duration of bleeding on them by 0.5s.
  • Defense: Retaliation you give to yourself now also scales with Toughness.
  • Tactics: Intercept 1% of damage on allies for each boon you have granted to them. That damage is reduced by 25% when it's deal to you.
  • Discipline: Your burst skills recharge after a weapon swap (9s recharge).
• Engineer:
  • Explosions: Gain endurance when your explosions hit enemies (5s recharge)
  • Firearms: Bleeding caused on enemies already bleeding will last 10% longer, and critical hits add 1s to bleeding already on target (3s recharge).
  • Inventions: Lose a condition when you lose a boon before it ends by removal, corruption or steal.
  • Alchemy: When you gain or give a boon, a copy of that boon is also given or received to the source or target of the boon for 25% of its duration.
  • Tools: Toolbelt skills gain a second charge, but take 66% longer to recharge.
• Ranger:
  • Marksmanship: Regain Opening strike when swapping weapons or pets.
  • Skirmishing: The next flanking attack by you or your pet after swapping weapons is unblockable.
  • Wilderness Survival: Your pet is sacrificed when you would take fatal damage, leaving you with 10% HP instead. (90s recharge)
  • Nature Magic: Your pet pulses a boon around itself every 3s based on archetype: Stout-Vigor, Deadly-Might, Versatile-Swiftness, Ferocious-Ferocity, Supportive-Regeneration
  • Beastmastery: Your pet gains 5% of your own attributes.
• Thief
  • Deadly arts: When poison is removed from enemies that have 6 or more stacks of poison from you, the longest stack will remain.
  • Critical Strikes: Lose Blinded automatically (25s recharge)
  • Shadow Arts: Lose revealed when hit while under 25% health (happens before Last Refuge if it's slotted). (60s recharge)
  • Acrobatics: Gain stabilityx1 for 0.75s while evading.
  • Trickery: Gain a second F3 stolen skill slot that is filled when stealing while the F2 slot is already ocuppied.
• Elementalist:
  • Fire: Your fire-themed skills deal Burningx1 for 1s (Cooldown: 1s).
  • Water: When Soothing Mist is applied to allies, they gain regeneration for 6s if they do not have regeneration on them, or have regeneration extended by 1s if they already have it.
  • Air: Critical hits from air-themed skills crackle, dealing 33% of that damage to 2 adjacent enemies.
  • Earth: Attackers suffer bleeding for 1s when you are attuned to Earth, receive less damage from bleeding enemies.
  • Arcane: You can now re-activate attunements without leaving them first.
• Mesmer
  • Domination: Summoning an illusion transfers 3 stacks of vulnerability from you to them. Illusions transfer vulnerability from them to adjacent enemies when they are destroyed.
  • Dueling: Attacks that can hit multiple foes are 10% stronger when they hit a single enemy.
  • Chaos: Clones that are destroyed by enemies explode giving allies a random boon and enemies a random condition from Chaos Aura list. Phantasms destroyed or interrupted before they can be replaced by clones will give allies a random boon and enemies a random condition from the Chaos Storm list. Gain Chaos Aura whenever one of your illusions is destroyed early by enemies (9s cooldown).
  • Inspiration: Your illusions take conditions from adjacent allies (9s cooldown per ally).
  • Illusions: When your illusions are destroyed, they transfer 3 of their conditions to enemies.
• Necromancer
  • Spite: Gain might when hitting an enemy that more stacks of vulnerability than your stacks of might. Deal vulnerability when hitting an enemy with less stacks of vulnerability than your stacks of might.
  • Curses: Critical hits add 1s duration damage conditions on target (3s cooldown)
  • Death Magic: While at max health and life force, deaths give you Barrier instead life force. When a minion dies, it gives barrier to any remaining minions.
  • Blood Magic: Melee attacks reduce the recharge of skills that can cause bleeding by 1s (1s cooldown) and steal life from bleeding enemies. Heal allies when stealing life.
  • Soul Reaping: 33% of the healing gained while at max health is gained as life force while not under the effects of a Shroud or Barrier.

[Jora.5471]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

• Soulbeast
  • Another possibility is giving core ranger an F5 skill that does something that isn't spectacularly strong, but at least unique. For example, using F5 as core ranger could make both your pets do 'tag-combo' attack. You use F5, the other pet appears, both pets use their pet skills, and the pets swap places, like the tag-combo attacks in games like Capcom vs Marvel.

I had an Beast master elite spec idea where the F5 is called Command Pet and it gives more control on the pet. Also, it would make the pets stronger.

Maybe F5 can be that for the core ranger.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

• Soulbeast
  • Another possibility is giving core ranger an F5 skill that does something that isn't spectacularly strong, but at least unique. For example, using F5 as core ranger could make both your pets do 'tag-combo' attack. You use F5, the other pet appears, both pets use their pet skills, and the pets swap places, like the tag-combo attacks in games like Capcom vs Marvel.

I had an Beast master elite spec idea where the F5 is called Command Pet and it gives more control on the pet. Also, it would make the pets stronger.

Maybe F5 can be that for the core ranger.

That would be certainly interesting. Have your character be controlled by AI temporarily, and you get 10 seconds or so of full pet control with all skills, maybe also a 5th extra hidden skill based on pet archetype to make it 5 and fill all 5 weapon slots, since pets have only 3 skills + pet attack.

[Jora.5471]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

• Soulbeast
  • Another possibility is giving core ranger an F5 skill that does something that isn't spectacularly strong, but at least unique. For example, using F5 as core ranger could make both your pets do 'tag-combo' attack. You use F5, the other pet appears, both pets use their pet skills, and the pets swap places, like the tag-combo attacks in games like Capcom vs Marvel.

I had an Beast master elite spec idea where the F5 is called Command Pet and it gives more control on the pet. Also, it would make the pets stronger.

Maybe F5 can be that for the core ranger.

That would be certainly interesting. Have your character be controlled by AI temporarily, and you get 10 seconds or so of full pet control with all skills, maybe also a 5th extra hidden skill based on pet archetype to make it 5 and fill all 5 weapon slots, since pets have only 3 skills + pet attack.

I rather not have my character control by AI. I don't want the AI to run off towards the enemy and get me killed. I was thinking more like pressing F5 changes the weapons bar and gives 5 more skills to press.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

• Soulbeast
  • Another possibility is giving core ranger an F5 skill that does something that isn't spectacularly strong, but at least unique. For example, using F5 as core ranger could make both your pets do 'tag-combo' attack. You use F5, the other pet appears, both pets use their pet skills, and the pets swap places, like the tag-combo attacks in games like Capcom vs Marvel.

I had an Beast master elite spec idea where the F5 is called Command Pet and it gives more control on the pet. Also, it would make the pets stronger.

Maybe F5 can be that for the core ranger.

That would be certainly interesting. Have your character be controlled by AI temporarily, and you get 10 seconds or so of full pet control with all skills, maybe also a 5th extra hidden skill based on pet archetype to make it 5 and fill all 5 weapon slots, since pets have only 3 skills + pet attack.

I rather not have my character control by AI. I don't want the AI to run off towards the enemy and get me killed. I was thinking more like pressing F5 changes the weapons bar and gives 5 more skills to press.

Oh. Something more like a kit, flipping over to your pet skills, letting you choose the order in which your pet uses its skills. That'll work too. It could also make the F1 skill temporarily become a ground targeted skill, letting you choose more carefully where your pet goes since the target would be determined when you use the pet skills in your skill bar.