Upcoming balance patch changes - does ANet not know what to do with Guardian anymore? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming balance patch changes - does ANet not know what to do with Guardian anymore?

mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

This update focuses primarily on tuning up core guardian skills and traits that haven't aged very well. Mace skill improvements and some fixes to how torch skills interact with the Radiant Fire trait should help these aspects of guardians fit in better with new specialization options. We're also extending ground-targeting functionality to all spirit weapons to give players more precise control.

Hammer Chain Skills: Adjusted attack animations and damage to get a smoother attack sequence. The full attack chain is slightly faster with less damage, resulting in a small increase in overall damage per second.

Faithful Strike: Lowered the full casting time by 0.3 seconds. Increased damage by 10%. Lowered healing slightly.
Symbol of Faith: Increased damage by 30%.

Protector's Strike: This skill now uses full-body animation for the finishing strike, even while the player is moving. The recovery animation is now shortened if an attack is not blocked. If this skill does not block an attack, it fully charges Virtue of Justice.

Zealot's Flame: This skill now displays an effect when it pulses to show the effective radius.

Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.
Spirit Weapons: These skills are now all ground-targeted while the player is on land.

Shield of the Avenger: Reduced the range from 1,200 to 900. Reduced the explosion radius from 1,200 to 360. Reduced the projectile speed by 25%. Added missing skill facts for shield radius and explosion radius.

Hammer of Wisdom: Updated the tooltip to display the sink effect instead of the knockdown effect while underwater. Fixed an issue in which the sink duration was 1 second instead of 2 seconds.

Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.
Zealot's Defense: Damage has been increased by 50% in PvE only. Fixed a bug that caused some visual effects to display on the player when enemies were hit.

Twitch | YouTube

Dragonhunter main | If I'm forced to, I can play holo... poorly

Comments

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    That really seems to be the case overall, particularly when you compare the amount of work that was put into the other classes and their elites (of which not a single one of the guardian elites was even discussed let alone modified), granted we got a few crumbs in the sense of the ground targeting on the spirit weapons and a few other things but we have been asking for the ground targeting on them since shortly after they did rework in Aug 2017. I am totally at a lose as to why the Guardian has left to languish by comparison to the other classes
    Overall I'll wait until the patch is released to see what the numbers are like etc but presently I'm very unimpressed(which has been the case for about the last 4 balance patches at least).

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @RUNICBLACK.7630

    I don't get it either. It's like, we keep making threads everywhere on what to do for DH in PvP...

    Twitch | YouTube

    Dragonhunter main | If I'm forced to, I can play holo... poorly

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    I would kind of get it if we came even close to being a dominating force in PvP but we aren't even remotely Meta in PvP , and I doubt we are a first choice for a Raid(heck we are probably luck to get in any more to many other classes can out shine us and do what we do better) the only reason we are strong in WvW is convenience more than overall strength. I really love to understand their hesitancy to do any modification to the guardian like they have on some many of the other classes
    Oh yes and did you notice the "lesser" change to the skills that destroyed missiles now just block them instead I'm not 100% sure if the destroyed missiles worked against the attacks that were "Unblockable" but if it did, well thats blown out of the water as a defense against Unblockable and it just made Unblockable even more powerful.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:
    That really seems to be the case overall, particularly when you compare the amount of work that was put into the other classes and their elites (of which not a single one of the guardian elites was even discussed let alone modified), granted we got a few crumbs in the sense of the ground targeting on the spirit weapons and a few other things but we have been asking for the ground targeting on them since shortly after they did rework in Aug 2017. I am totally at a lose as to why the Guardian has left to languish by comparison to the other classes
    Overall I'll wait until the patch is released to see what the numbers are like etc but presently I'm very unimpressed(which has been the case for about the last 4 balance patches at least).

    you want improvements to firebrand????

    meta in wvw hybrid damage, or full support
    meta in pvp full support
    meta in raids harrier healer or quickbrand
    meta in fracs harrier healer or quickbrand

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    Just curious your saying that the Firebrand doesn't get out shown by any other class in everyone of those? And I would honestly like to know how players that consistently run any type of Guardian that are top tiers of PvP (without running Duo and I'm not talking about a one off for one season only) I'm not saying there aren't any but I would like an actual idea of how many can consistently hold tier 2 Plat or higher. It's not that we can't play Fracs or the other formats but I am saying that while they continue to do work to improve the other classes the Guardian and it's elites have been sitting idle or worse( seriously look at the last three balance patches and for all their talk of increasing and improving the Guardian's build diversity there really was little to nothing in the way of improvements).

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    IF there was a balance patch focused on Guardians, FB would be the last aspect I would want them to touch. It certainly doesn't need attention because it's underpowered, that's for sure. It's got nothing to do with what other classes outshine this thing or that. These class changes are driven by theme, not relative class performance.

    As for the changes themselves ... a little strange ... but another nod to the fact that Radiance is not working as they want and the fact that Anet LOVES the spirit weapon concept. Everyone still sending prayers to get RI back to 50%?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    I just want DH PvP buffs...

    Twitch | YouTube

    Dragonhunter main | If I'm forced to, I can play holo... poorly

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    You do understand that the change to Right Handed Strength actually comes down losing the equivalent of 300 points in precision(15% critical chance increase) and getting 80 points instead plus and additional 80 points to power if your using a one handed weapon, this is just like the so called buff on the last patch which took away the flat 200 bonus to concentration no matter what weapon you were using and replaced with a flat bonus of 120 to concentration and only getting the additional 120 bonus if you were using the staff, actually this is much worse than the Honorable Staff was because you are not recovering the lost damage potential from your loss to critical chance(which the fury you got from Symbol of Blades synergized really well) is in no way made up for by the 80 points to power.

    Ok yes I will be happy with the ground targeting as for the rest those will be a wait and see as to what the numbers turn out to be and I fully understand that cycles with regard to the ups and downs of changes to the various classes but with all due respect the guardian has been on the downward portion of that cycle for far to long and I have been playing since Beta and I have and do play every class. Don't take my word for it look at the history of each of the skills and traits and look in detail at all of the past balance patches I'm not saying that they are singling out the guardian ( that would be ridiculous) but it seem that they are unsure of what to do with the class as it stands

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Well, mace AA change and SW being ground targetable. To a much lesser extent Zealots defense. Everything else has no impact on the game what so ever.

    But lets go in details:

    _Hammer Chain Skills: Adjusted attack animations and damage to get a smoother attack sequence. The full attack chain is slightly faster with less damage, resulting in a small increase in overall damage per second.
    _
    Who cares? This is not going to make the weapon viable in PvP or PvE.

    Faithful Strike: Lowered the full casting time by 0.3 seconds. Increased damage by 10%. Lowered healing slightly.

    Very good may make the weapon more viable if the symbol.

    Symbol of Faith: Increased damage by 30%.

    ?! Seriously, Anet devs, please STOP DOING RANDOM kitten. How the kitten is this supposed to be useful? I do not care if you buff the damage by 200%, without addressing the cast time it is pointless.

    _Protector's Strike: This skill now uses full-body animation for the finishing strike, even while the player is moving. The recovery animation is now shortened if an attack is not blocked. If this skill does not block an attack, it fully charges Virtue of Justice.
    _
    Not sure. Does not change much. Fully charging VoJ?!! Was that another random roll of dice?

    Zealot's Flame: This skill now displays an effect when it pulses to show the effective radius.

    Cool. Never really had an issue with this, but quality if life improvements are always nice.

    Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.

    Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf or even an improvement. Again, I never had issues with Zealots flame, since it was last updated. Will see

    Spirit Weapons: These skills are now all ground-targeted while the player is on land.

    Highly requested. Best change this patch.

    Shield of the Avenger: Reduced the range from 1,200 to 900. Reduced the explosion radius from 1,200 to 360. Reduced the projectile speed by 25%. Added missing skill facts for shield radius and explosion radius.

    Not really sure. No one uses this skill for a good reason. Nothing changed here?
    _
    Hammer of Wisdom: Updated the tooltip to display the sink effect instead of the knockdown effect while underwater. Fixed an issue in which the sink duration was 1 second instead of 2 seconds._

    Okay.

    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so... RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR STRIKES AGAIN. Way too many times in this patch...

    Zealot's Defense: Damage has been increased by 50% in PvE only. Fixed a bug that caused some visual effects to display on the player when enemies were hit.

    Good change. The suggested was 100% in PvE to put sword between GS (cleave) and scepter (single target). Not enough.

    Maybe in 50 patches something other than FB will be PvP viable. This is garbage, considering that the last 3 patches eliminated mostly everything but FB from PvP. The changes have almost no impact on hammer effectiveness in any game mode. Mace, also is not going to be viable as a bruiser weapon. I do not want to assume that SoJ and HoW are not PvP viable without testing them, with ground targeting (considering it I suggested the change before). As for the entertainment factor, I think Anet out done themselves. Too many changes that seem to be inspired by April fools.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    IF there was a balance patch focused on Guardians, FB would be the last aspect I would want them to touch. It certainly doesn't need attention because it's underpowered, that's for sure. It's got nothing to do with what other classes outshine this thing or that. These class changes are driven by theme, not relative class performance.

    As for the changes themselves ... a little strange ... but another nod to the fact that Radiance is not working as they want and the fact that Anet LOVES the spirit weapon concept. Everyone still sending prayers to get RI back to 50%?

    FB needs nerfs in PvP.

    You are the only one who mentioned RI in this thread lol?! Is this trolling initiation fail B)

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.

    Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf or even an improvement. Again, I never had issues with Zealots flame, since it was last updated. Will see

    This currently has issues where the trait proccing while you're trying to use the skill can cause it to be really clunky. I'd imagine that the changes to making this use ammo would eliminate most of those issues.

    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so... RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR STRIKES AGAIN. Way too many times in this patch...

    The previous iteration was 15% crit ONLY for the 1-3 skills. You did not get that benefit on your OH, tome skills, virutes or utility skills. The new version should apply to ALL of your skills instead of just 3 of them. This also alleviates the annoyance of trying to gear around 15% precision that only works for your 1h weapons. As for the power level of the trait, it is in line with other similar weapon traits at the adept level (Ferocious Strikes, Dagger Training).

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @Knox.8962 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.

    Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf or even an improvement. Again, I never had issues with Zealots flame, since it was last updated. Will see

    This currently has issues where the trait proccing while you're trying to use the skill can cause it to be really clunky. I'd imagine that the changes to making this use ammo would eliminate most of those issues.

    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so... RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR STRIKES AGAIN. Way too many times in this patch...

    The previous iteration was 15% crit ONLY for the 1-3 skills. You did not get that benefit on your OH, tome skills, virutes or utility skills. The new version should apply to ALL of your skills instead of just 3 of them. This also alleviates the annoyance of trying to gear around 15% precision that only works for your 1h weapons. As for the power level of the trait, it is in line with other similar weapon traits at the adept level (Ferocious Strikes, Dagger Training).

    I am pretty certain the value of 15% crit chance on skills 1-3 (particularly the AA) far outweighs the tomes and utilities power damage. Also, OH, you mean torch 4 throw? This is the only skill this impacts, since none of the other OH weapons are used in PvE. Same as well for 2 handed weapons. None of them are used in condi builds and the trait is only used on condi builds.

    It is a nerf to condi builds in PvE no matter which angle you look at it. And it does not open any alternatives, under any build, in any game mode. If that was intended, that's fine. If not, then Anet devs... are just out to lunch.

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Guardian and random changes no one asked for - name a more iconic duo

    I guess this time the dice landed on spirit weapons again. Its funny because making them ground targetted without additional changes is going to make them worse, considering the long delay from when you cast until the first hit actually lands combined with the small radius. At least shield might be usefu- oh wait, they nerfed it LUL

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Knox.8962 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.

    Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf or even an improvement. Again, I never had issues with Zealots flame, since it was last updated. Will see

    This currently has issues where the trait proccing while you're trying to use the skill can cause it to be really clunky. I'd imagine that the changes to making this use ammo would eliminate most of those issues.

    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so... RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR STRIKES AGAIN. Way too many times in this patch...

    The previous iteration was 15% crit ONLY for the 1-3 skills. You did not get that benefit on your OH, tome skills, virutes or utility skills. The new version should apply to ALL of your skills instead of just 3 of them. This also alleviates the annoyance of trying to gear around 15% precision that only works for your 1h weapons. As for the power level of the trait, it is in line with other similar weapon traits at the adept level (Ferocious Strikes, Dagger Training).

    I am pretty certain the value of 15% crit chance on skills 1-3 (particularly the AA) far outweighs the tomes and utilities power damage. Also, OH, you mean torch 4 throw? This is the only skill this impacts, since none of the other OH weapons are used in PvE. Same as well for 2 handed weapons. None of them are used in condi builds and the trait is only used on condi builds.

    It is a nerf to condi builds in PvE no matter which angle you look at it. And it does not open any alternatives, under any build, in any game mode. If that was intended, that's fine. If not, then Anet devs... are just out to lunch.

    The 15% on MH skills effects 11% of your total DPS for a condi FB build. The other 7% of your non-condi damage would have previously gained no benefit.

    If you apply the 160 total stats to all 18% of the power damage now, it ends up being about a 0.17% DPS loss overall. Basically no net change.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @Knox.8962 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Knox.8962 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    Zealot's Fire: This skill now uses the ammunition system. The Radiant Fire trait now adds 1 cast to the skill if it triggers while Zealot's Flame is active.

    Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf or even an improvement. Again, I never had issues with Zealots flame, since it was last updated. Will see

    This currently has issues where the trait proccing while you're trying to use the skill can cause it to be really clunky. I'd imagine that the changes to making this use ammo would eliminate most of those issues.

    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so... RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR STRIKES AGAIN. Way too many times in this patch...

    The previous iteration was 15% crit ONLY for the 1-3 skills. You did not get that benefit on your OH, tome skills, virutes or utility skills. The new version should apply to ALL of your skills instead of just 3 of them. This also alleviates the annoyance of trying to gear around 15% precision that only works for your 1h weapons. As for the power level of the trait, it is in line with other similar weapon traits at the adept level (Ferocious Strikes, Dagger Training).

    I am pretty certain the value of 15% crit chance on skills 1-3 (particularly the AA) far outweighs the tomes and utilities power damage. Also, OH, you mean torch 4 throw? This is the only skill this impacts, since none of the other OH weapons are used in PvE. Same as well for 2 handed weapons. None of them are used in condi builds and the trait is only used on condi builds.

    It is a nerf to condi builds in PvE no matter which angle you look at it. And it does not open any alternatives, under any build, in any game mode. If that was intended, that's fine. If not, then Anet devs... are just out to lunch.

    The 15% on MH skills effects 11% of your total DPS for a condi FB build. The other 7% of your non-condi damage would have previously gained no benefit.

    If you apply the 160 total stats to all 18% of the power damage now, it ends up being about a 0.17% DPS loss overall. Basically no net change.

    That sounds good. It still lowers the damage on some builds, but most of them are not competitive, so that is neither here nor there.

    @FtoPScrub.5476 said:
    Guardian and random changes no one asked for - name a more iconic duo

    I guess this time the dice landed on spirit weapons again. Its funny because making them ground targetted without additional changes is going to make them worse, considering the long delay from when you cast until the first hit actually lands combined with the small radius. At least shield might be usefu- oh wait, they nerfed it LUL

    The ground targeting of SW is surely a buff in every game mode. This skills never manage to hit anything in PvP. At least now you can apply them to where you anticipate the target will be.

    The shield, I do not get.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    IF there was a balance patch focused on Guardians, FB would be the last aspect I would want them to touch. It certainly doesn't need attention because it's underpowered, that's for sure. It's got nothing to do with what other classes outshine this thing or that. These class changes are driven by theme, not relative class performance.

    As for the changes themselves ... a little strange ... but another nod to the fact that Radiance is not working as they want and the fact that Anet LOVES the spirit weapon concept. Everyone still sending prayers to get RI back to 50%?

    FB needs nerfs in PvP.

    You are the only one who mentioned RI in this thread lol?! Is this trolling initiation fail B)

    Just heading it off at the pass ... Someone is going to QQ about the crit rate change on 1H precision ... I expect it's the same people that think RI @ 50% is reasonable too. What I like about this patch is that IIRC, i predicted more Radiance trait changes of the same nature. Funny, lots of people thought that was crazy.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Shield of the Avenger: Reduced the range from 1,200 to 900. Reduced the explosion radius from 1,200 to 360. Reduced the projectile speed by 25%. Added missing skill facts for shield radius and explosion radius.

    Nobody uses this anyway. Guardians already have tons of skills that reflect and block projectiles. They should rework this into something different. Such as....apply aegis every 2 seconds in the area? But increase the cooldown.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Great changes but not consequential ones.

    I dont really see this as new possibility for sword in PvE and Spirit Weps would need some testing in pvp to see how it works.

    Changes to mace are great for players that use them in PvP but for anyone else it meh.

    Not sure how i feel about right hand strenght changes. It seems like a drastic change to go from 15% to cca 4%. But then again crit chance isnt really a problem for guardian.

    I am curious about the new dps output of sword+torch. This is the second patch in the row that torch got a buff so combined with new sword dps it might actually be a decent combo. But someone with better math skills could answer that better

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am just disappointed that no buffs to DH or it's Longbow. Overall these changes seem like +/- 0.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 Listen, enough with the SW changes. These changes may finally bring them up to par but I believe I speak for every Guardian when I say that we're rather tired of seeing these instead of other utilities that need serious help as well. Consecrations and Shouts come to mind.

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    The modification to Combo effects with regard to Dark Aura really leaves me wondering about why they also didn't revisit Light Aura , where DA now gives 5 seconds of 20% damage reduction versus Condition Damage plus 2 seconds of Torment to an attacker when you are struck( with a one second cool down per attacker) but with Light Aura (from a leap finisher also) you gain Retaliation with a one second cool down and only gain a 10% damage reduction versus Condition Damage, why the difference , if anything the one giving Torment should be lower on damage reduction because the Torment can stack in intensity where as the Retaliation can only stack in duration with a limit of 5 .

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Along with the hit to Right Handed Strength did anyone else notice the bonus to Pack Alpha where it now also gives an additional 150 points to Condition Damage when it already gave that to Power, Precision, Toughness and Vitality which of course then rolls right over to the Soul Beast when they are bonded I mean REALLY!!!! This is a Adept Minor trait its giving 750 points over all and there isn't a time limit or a boon they have to keep up like with our Imbued Haste and there they did a split between PvE and PvP/WvW but they don't even blink an eye over buffing Soulbeast which is already abusively overpowered when you look at how often they can use Unblockable attacks.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:
    Along with the hit to Right Handed Strength did anyone else notice the bonus to Pack Alpha where it now also gives an additional 150 points to Condition Damage when it already gave that to Power, Precision, Toughness and Vitality which of course then rolls right over to the Soul Beast when they are bonded I mean REALLY!!!! This is a Adept Minor trait its giving 750 points over all and there isn't a time limit or a boon they have to keep up like with our Imbued Haste and there they did a split between PvE and PvP/WvW but they don't even blink an eye over buffing Soulbeast which is already abusively overpowered when you look at how often they can use Unblockable attacks.

    I am pretty certain none of the changes Anet are doing have anything to do with class balance. It’s more, “ohh look this skill would be cool if it did X or Y.” Anet devs where we could randomly buff some random core skills!

    Example, mace needed buffs, but these buffs are not measured (significantly insufficient) and guardian has major fundamental issues that prevent it from being competitive outside of FB, including mobility, HP pool, lack of controlling skills and sustainability issues. Mace buff surely does not solve them, or even stand on its own as a bruiser weapons, after the buff.

    It’s just random kitten from clueless devs. Do not try to logic with it, cuz there is none behind it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    It’s just random kitten from clueless devs. Do not try to logic with it, cuz there is none behind it.

    Well, there is logic behind it ... they balance according to theme and what they want the class to do. It's not the logic you want to see, but that's what it is ... and it's always been that way as well, so expecting anything else is unreasonable.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    It’s just random kitten from clueless devs. Do not try to logic with it, cuz there is none behind it.

    Well, there is logic behind it ... they balance according to theme and what they want the class to do. It's not the logic you want to see, but that's what it is ... and it's always been that way as well, so expecting anything else is unreasonable.

    What did any of the current balance changes have anything to do with any theme? What is the theme of mace that Anet is trying to achieve? Considering that mace has not seen changes in 3 years plus, what the kitten was Anet smoking during that time? Did the forget to address the the "theme" all that time (or performance or anything)?

    Get the kitten out.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    Really? You can't see how mace is related to a theme on Guardian? You can't read the exact reason Anet gave for changing it? I don't even need to speculate here ... it's their words right in the patch notes why they changed it ... and if you can't see how that's related to the concept of the class, I'm pretty certain I can't explain it to you. This is just another example of pretending you don't see it because you don't want to believe what you are being told. Believe whatever you want, but I'm pretty certain like RI .. this is a change that's going to happen, it's related to the theme of the class and how it gives meaningful choices to players.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Really? You can't see how mace is related to a theme on Guardian? You can't read the exact reason Anet gave for changing it? I don't even need to speculate here ... it's their words right in the patch notes why they changed it ... and if you can't see how that's related to the concept of the class, I'm pretty certain I can't explain it to you. This is just another example of pretending you don't see it because you don't want to believe what you are being told. Believe whatever you want, but I'm pretty certain like RI .. this is a change that's going to happen, it's related to the theme of the class and how it gives meaningful choices to players.

    !? Did you just read the top line from the overall balance change?! First, that had nothing to do with guardian or any of guardian elites whatsoever. Secondly, past performance of Anet did not substantiate that direction, but will see success with berserker and daredevil.

    Guardian changes were all performance based of less used weapons. I am claiming that whoever made these changes to be incompetent. Cuz even though the changes are positive, and done with direction but without any measurement.

    And the funny thing is that almost all the changes were copy paste of player suggestions on top threads currently on the class front page.

    My position is calling Anet dev who performed guardian changes to be incompetent. I do not not give a flying kitten about what Anet “thinks.” I will call them out for Copy pasting easy stuff with little understanding and zero effort to address fundamental issues.

  • Don't bother ur self, they just want FB (pvp) to play with mace instead of sword :sleepy:

    Hammer ??? nahhh still slow, still too predictable...i'll keep my great sword in my core guard.

    Troll since 1982.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Really? You can't see how mace is related to a theme on Guardian? You can't read the exact reason Anet gave for changing it? I don't even need to speculate here ... it's their words right in the patch notes why they changed it ... and if you can't see how that's related to the concept of the class, I'm pretty certain I can't explain it to you. This is just another example of pretending you don't see it because you don't want to believe what you are being told. Believe whatever you want, but I'm pretty certain like RI .. this is a change that's going to happen, it's related to the theme of the class and how it gives meaningful choices to players.

    !? Did you just read the top line from the overall balance change?!

    Seems to me you need to continue reading past the top line.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    Most ppl on the forums begged for DH changes but I guess that’s perhaps next time. 6 months later :(

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Most ppl on the forums begged for DH changes but I guess that’s perhaps next time. 6 months later :(

    Thats why i play SWTOR now, much more fun than this. 10 patches in a row were nerfs. Dont expect them to balance anything than spirit weapons or signets :) cause nobody at anet play dps guard, only bot heal/support.

  • I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Mysticjedi.6053Mysticjedi.6053 Member ✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    I wish they had done more, but this patch provided a great glimpse into specialization balance, and I do think it is spot on. Everything about a specialization should be about trade offs.

    Unless the core profession is solid though the specialization will be a massive buff (see the last two expansions). Tweaking and updating the core is a start for an eventual big update. Look at warrior and banners and the complete rework of core Mesmer.

    Little changes pave the way for bigger changes, and hopefully more identity, most likely for Dragonhunter.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

    "Guardians are in a good place" was so oft repeated that it became a nihilistic meme. For years, every other balance patch would lead the Guardian section with "We think Guardians are in a good place." If anything, Firebrands are the recent exception to what has been a general trend.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

    "Guardians are in a good place" was so oft repeated that it became a nihilistic meme. For years, every other balance patch would lead the Guardian section with "We think Guardians are in a good place." If anything, Firebrands are the recent exception to what has been a general trend.

    That may have been true in the past, but last 2 balance patches nerfed all none FB builds significantly. Like cutting overall performance by 20%-25%. Guardian is the most nerfed class (except mirage) in the last 12 month. And it was not even top meta.

    Also, no one at any point in the last two years though DH was in a good place.

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭

    really ? I think core burn guard and dh trap build are pretty good just support FB is too strong

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

    "Guardians are in a good place" was so oft repeated that it became a nihilistic meme. For years, every other balance patch would lead the Guardian section with "We think Guardians are in a good place." If anything, Firebrands are the recent exception to what has been a general trend.

    That may have been true in the past, but last 2 balance patches nerfed all none FB builds significantly. Like cutting overall performance by 20%-25%. Guardian is the most nerfed class (except mirage) in the last 12 month. And it was not even top meta.

    Also, no one at any point in the last two years though DH was in a good place.

    Dh was and is meta in pve. And FB is meta for tournament pvp. WvW is dominated by firebrands. Saying outlandish things about state of guardian doesnt help the profession in the long run

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

    "Guardians are in a good place" was so oft repeated that it became a nihilistic meme. For years, every other balance patch would lead the Guardian section with "We think Guardians are in a good place." If anything, Firebrands are the recent exception to what has been a general trend.

    Agreed ... that's why we get token changes most the time ... Anet likes how the class works for the most part. A few exceptions to that do not disprove it as a valid hypothesis.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am happy about the ground target on SW and the improvements on mace.
    Rest is fairly mediocre stuff compared to gamechanging stuff on other professions.

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Dh was and is meta in pve.

    In what format of PvE are you talking about? Open World? Because almost any build has reasonable ability to work there. Fractals? If your talking about T4 or more accurately T4 CM you have got to be kidding me while you might not get auto kicked I sure don't see anybody requesting DH and in Raids we are passable but we sure aren't winning any awards.

    And FB is meta for tournament pvp.
    Again where are you seeing this, we are ridiculously out performed on the support side(which is all we really have for competitive play now) since they nerfed the FB down in the last few patches and even more so since they Buffed up the Scrapper so much.

    WvW is dominated by firebrands.
    Ok this at least is reasonable accurate

    Saying outlandish things about state of guardian doesnt help the profession in the long run

    Just because a particular build is listed on Metabuild does not in anyway mean it is dominating overall in any way all that is showing you is this is the best build that has been found for this class irrespective of the relative strength or weakness of that particular class against the whole host of other classes and their builds that are out there. This is something that to many players seem to do. I'm still waiting to hear as to how many players that can consistently hold Platinum tier 2 or above while running Guardian (or any of its Elites) consistently and not Duo qued while doing, I'm not saying it can't be done but I am certain that it will be a much smaller percentage than all most all of the other classes by comparison.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Dh was and is meta in pve.

    In what format of PvE are you talking about? Open World? Because almost any build has reasonable ability to work there. Fractals? If your talking about T4 or more accurately T4 CM you have got to be kidding me while you might not get auto kicked I sure don't see anybody requesting DH and in Raids we are passable but we sure aren't winning any awards.

    And FB is meta for tournament pvp.
    Again where are you seeing this, we are ridiculously out performed on the support side(which is all we really have for competitive play now) since they nerfed the FB down in the last few patches and even more so since they Buffed up the Scrapper so much.

    WvW is dominated by firebrands.
    Ok this at least is reasonable accurate

    Saying outlandish things about state of guardian doesnt help the profession in the long run

    Just because a particular build is listed on Metabuild does not in anyway mean it is dominating overall in any way all that is showing you is this is the best build that has been found for this class irrespective of the relative strength or weakness of that particular class against the whole host of other classes and their builds that are out there. This is something that to many players seem to do. I'm still waiting to hear as to how many players that can consistently hold Platinum tier 2 or above while running Guardian (or any of its Elites) consistently and not Duo qued while doing, I'm not saying it can't be done but I am certain that it will be a much smaller percentage than all most all of the other classes by comparison.

    Wat.

    Burst is king in fractal CMs and what's what DH excels at. You want bosses to phase as quickly as possible.

    I usually play Healbrand in CMs and T4s nowadays but when I do go DH I can usually pull 28k, on for example, CM99 MAMA. Just because you run with kitten DHs doesnt completely invalidate the profession.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I've had a theory for awhile: Anet doesn't balance Guardian. They balance around Guardian. I think that Anet is using the Guardian's capabilities as a basic reference, and then changes other classes around it.

    That does not seem to be the case at all. I am not going to sit here and compare none FB builds with other meta effective builds cuz that is a waste of time. The gap is so kitten huge as it currently stands and none of these builds were even remotely nerfed.

    "Guardians are in a good place" was so oft repeated that it became a nihilistic meme. For years, every other balance patch would lead the Guardian section with "We think Guardians are in a good place." If anything, Firebrands are the recent exception to what has been a general trend.

    That may have been true in the past, but last 2 balance patches nerfed all none FB builds significantly. Like cutting overall performance by 20%-25%. Guardian is the most nerfed class (except mirage) in the last 12 month. And it was not even top meta.

    Also, no one at any point in the last two years though DH was in a good place.

    Dh was and is meta in pve. And FB is meta for tournament pvp. WvW is dominated by firebrands. Saying outlandish things about state of guardian doesnt help the profession in the long run

    You are correct. My post was not clear. I was only posting regarding PvP and excluding FB.

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 End game PvE is not my thing, but I am pretty certain that DH and FB are fine. DH can dish a ridiculous amount of damage, in AOE and in a very short period of time. And it’s damage remains fairly strong afterwards. This does not translate in PvP whatsoever, but PvE wise it is surely in a decent place.

    Also, I won’t say FB dominates PvP, but it is surely up there. FB support in sPvP is top 3 meta build (if not number 1).

    The issue is all PvP builds that do not include both FB and healing power are mediocre at best. And core is outclassed every where (though this is not a guardian exclusive problem).

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    DH is always welcome in fractals and i dont think i have ever seen a fractal run without at least one DH. On raids same thing. All pages place DH as meta. I have never heard anyone saying they have a problem with dragonhunter. I hate to say this but if people have problem with DH in the group they are the problem not DH. Its either that or DH in the group is superbad.

    I dont play tournaments but whenever i am watching casting of tournaments FB is frequently played. I usually twitch stream dellusionalelitists. And FB is almost always in casted matches

    Also FB and Rene outperform chrono+druid in fractals atm.

    Also meta sites are not showing you just the best build for the professions. They are showing you top builds for a certain content. Both metabattle and snowcrows quite clearly tell you sonin the explanations

  • We already have several ways to renew justice, personally i would like to have Protector's Strike renew one of the other virtues instead. slotting invigorating bulwark and running virtues makes this new change lackluster.

    as a core honor-valor-virtue guardian, using virtues is often a waste for me, as a passive permeating wrath is better than a burst in most cases.
    Meby this is crazy talk, but i would like a core revision of the virtue system.

    make them passive toggles, that have a self-group mode and when one is toggled to group, the other two are reduced in efficiency.
    make them similar to facets, there have been many great ideas posted on the forums over the years.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so...

    I had to laugh here, since I run a power DH and use this trait. And before the accusations of "noob" start, I have been playing fractals since they came out and regularly run T4 with a static guild group. Anecdotal data, I know, but assertions that no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds are built on a vacuum of data since only Anet can tell us how many people have a particular traitor trait combinations actually equipped.

    @otto.5684 said:
    Also, OH, you mean torch 4 throw? This is the only skill this impacts, since none of the other OH weapons are used in PvE.

    aaaaand the same here. Wide sweeping statements like this are really pointless since they cannot be based off of any player accessible documentation. Perhaps if you were to say there are no other OH weapons that are meta, then we have a reasonable starting point for conversation. Hyperbole isn't terribly helpful however.

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:
    Along with the hit to Right Handed Strength did anyone else notice the bonus to Pack Alpha where it now also gives an additional 150 points to Condition Damage when it already gave that to Power, Precision, Toughness and Vitality which of course then rolls right over to the Soul Beast when they are bonded I mean REALLY!!!! This is a Adept Minor trait its giving 750 points over all and there isn't a time limit or a boon they have to keep up like with our Imbued Haste and there they did a split between PvE and PvP/WvW but they don't even blink an eye over buffing Soulbeast which is already abusively overpowered when you look at how often they can use Unblockable attacks.

    I find this post highly ironic given the overall ranger/SB antagonism in the WvW community.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71429/wvw-commanders-guilds-kicking-non-meta-classes/p1
    So which is it? Are they OP? Or are they so worthless that nobody should play them in WvW? If you read that entire thread (probably not worth it) you will definitely see that sentiment presented there by some.

    Since this is a guardian related thread I will stop there in hopes of not derailing the conversation too much.

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Dh was and is meta in pve.

    In what format of PvE are you talking about? Open World? Because almost any build has reasonable ability to work there. Fractals? If your talking about T4 or more accurately T4 CM you have got to be kidding me while you might not get auto kicked I sure don't see anybody requesting DH and in Raids we are passable but we sure aren't winning any awards.

    As I mentioned earlier, I run DH in T4 fractals with a static group and we have no problems whatsoever. I realize that is not the same thing as pugging fractals, but lets be honest, pugging fractals can almost as toxic an environment as pugging raids or apparently trying to play SB in a WvW squad.

    Just because a particular build is listed on Metabuild does not in anyway mean it is dominating overall in any way all that is showing you is this is the best build that has been found for this class irrespective of the relative strength or weakness of that particular class against the whole host of other classes and their builds that are out there.

    This I wholeheartedly agree with!

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Right-Hand Strength: This trait no longer gives a flat critical-hit chance. Instead it gives an additional 80 precision, plus an additional 80 power while wielding a one-handed weapon.

    Critical Chance increases by 1% for every 21 Precision. So, all condi builds in all game modes roughly lost 10% critic chance for 80 power. This is probably a bigger nerf to FB in PvE than last balance patch buff (dunno if that was intended). Also, no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds, and all 2 handed weapons (except staff, support) are power builds so...

    I had to laugh here, since I run a power DH and use this trait. And before the accusations of "noob" start, I have been playing fractals since they came out and regularly run T4 with a static guild group. Anecdotal data, I know, but assertions that no one, under any condition, uses this trait with a power builds are built on a vacuum of data since only Anet can tell us how many people have a particular traitor trait combinations actually equipped.

    @otto.5684 said:
    Also, OH, you mean torch 4 throw? This is the only skill this impacts, since none of the other OH weapons are used in PvE.

    aaaaand the same here. Wide sweeping statements like this are really pointless since they cannot be based off of any player accessible documentation. Perhaps if you were to say there are no other OH weapons that are meta, then we have a reasonable starting point for conversation. Hyperbole isn't terribly helpful however.

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:
    Along with the hit to Right Handed Strength did anyone else notice the bonus to Pack Alpha where it now also gives an additional 150 points to Condition Damage when it already gave that to Power, Precision, Toughness and Vitality which of course then rolls right over to the Soul Beast when they are bonded I mean REALLY!!!! This is a Adept Minor trait its giving 750 points over all and there isn't a time limit or a boon they have to keep up like with our Imbued Haste and there they did a split between PvE and PvP/WvW but they don't even blink an eye over buffing Soulbeast which is already abusively overpowered when you look at how often they can use Unblockable attacks.

    I find this post highly ironic given the overall ranger/SB antagonism in the WvW community.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71429/wvw-commanders-guilds-kicking-non-meta-classes/p1
    So which is it? Are they OP? Or are they so worthless that nobody should play them in WvW? If you read that entire thread (probably not worth it) you will definitely see that sentiment presented there by some.

    Since this is a guardian related thread I will stop there in hopes of not derailing the conversation too much.

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Dh was and is meta in pve.

    In what format of PvE are you talking about? Open World? Because almost any build has reasonable ability to work there. Fractals? If your talking about T4 or more accurately T4 CM you have got to be kidding me while you might not get auto kicked I sure don't see anybody requesting DH and in Raids we are passable but we sure aren't winning any awards.

    As I mentioned earlier, I run DH in T4 fractals with a static group and we have no problems whatsoever. I realize that is not the same thing as pugging fractals, but lets be honest, pugging fractals can almost as toxic an environment as pugging raids or apparently trying to play SB in a WvW squad.

    Just because a particular build is listed on Metabuild does not in anyway mean it is dominating overall in any way all that is showing you is this is the best build that has been found for this class irrespective of the relative strength or weakness of that particular class against the whole host of other classes and their builds that are out there.

    This I wholeheartedly agree with!

    Mmm.. just cuz you decide to put a random trait in a random build does not mean anything. Builds are provided but what provides the most benefit for your role. You electively gimping yourself (even if it is not significant enough to impact performance adversely) is not basis for anything.

    And I do not want to shatter your bubble, but clearing PvE content is not a measure of skill level or indication of detailed understanding in the game. Not the these are precursors for posting on the forums. But please do not hit me with “I am a highly skilled player” then tell me you do fractals.

    Also, you electively quoted me on the OH weapons, while intentionally (or not) did not include that I was specifically talking about condi build. Feel free to use shield or focus, as using wrong traits.

    Bottom line is you putting lacking the competence necessary to understand why specific traits/weapons/skills are used in specific context, does not have any value, unless you can mathematically or mechanically proof the setup is ideal. I used a skill in specific content and it worked has zero value and is not valid argument for.. anything.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Mmm.. just cuz you decide to put a random trait in a random build does not mean anything. Builds are provided but what provides the most benefit for your role. You electively gimping yourself (even if it is not significant enough to impact performance adversely) is not basis for anything.

    You seem to have missed my point entirely. I was commenting on the use of hyperbole on the basis of no data. Yes my use of weapons & traits of which you disapprove is anecdotal. No, I don't expect you to approve of them, nor do I in some way need your approval of my builds for them to accomplish what I use them for.

    And I do not want to shatter your bubble, but clearing PvE content is not a measure of skill level or indication of detailed understanding in the game. Not the these are precursors for posting on the forums. But please do not hit me with “I am a highly skilled player” then tell me you do fractals.

    I do not identify myself as a "highly skilled player", simply not inexperienced.

    Also, you electively quoted me on the OH weapons, while intentionally (or not) did not include that I was specifically talking about condi build. Feel free to use shield or focus, as using wrong traits.

    See my first point about hyperbole and declaring what people do and do not use without providing any source of data. This had nothing to do with selectively quoting you other than trying to save space.

    Bottom line is you putting lacking the competence necessary to understand why specific traits/weapons/skills are used in specific context, does not have any value, unless you can mathematically or mechanically proof the setup is ideal. I used a skill in specific content and it worked has zero value and is not valid argument for.. anything.

    Are you familiar with Ad Hominem?

  • aspirine.5839aspirine.5839 Member ✭✭✭

    I just want to see the hammer changes, hope it's less clunky and a bit faster. I loved guard hammer.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    what makes me so sad that DH gets ignored in the changes is that its a very elegant class in pvp and need some skill in compare to burst and run core guard.

    FB has also nice skills but I dont like play heal guard in solo Q its a nightmare to see ppl running away from heals or I think im somewhat hard to kill but than get bursted down in 2 seconds by rev or mesmer

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.