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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Basharic.1654 said:Here's my question:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

How does removing a Daredevil's ability to use steal to close a long gap help us melee in any way?

If Anet wants us to melee they should be giving us
more
abilities to stick to a target not less. The range drop would be appropriate if we were getting something useful towards that end. Unblockable isn't it.

Maybe something like:

Physical Supremacy: This trait changes Steal to Hitched, which tethers the target to the thief and gives the thief a stolen skill and X seconds of X% base damage reduction. Toughness improves total reduction. Neither can leave 600 range of each other for X seconds. Stunbreaks used by either the thief or it's target will break the link. If either party attempts to use a skill to get out of range that is not a stun break it results in a knockdown and puts that skill on cooldown + X seconds. Stability applied after Hitched is engaged counters certain effects of Hitched but does not remove it - That means an attempted non-stunbreak maneuver to get out of range won't give the knockdown but the target still can't leave range. Stability applied before would prevent it of course.

It would work a lot like Guardian's Ring of Warding while allowing some counterplay for the target and helping the thief to be toe to toe for the duration. Most importantly it offers significant risk/reward choices in its use. Which is all I want.

And if you wanted to make it
really
sexy and give thief a GvG/WvW group perk, let it affect targets in an AOE. Would force the thief to use discretion on its use in small scale and be great for locking down targets for bombs.

As if thief wasn't op enough in gvg setups

Only thing thiefs OP at is running away.

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@saerni.2584 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Repeater: Initiative cost of this skill has been reduced from 4 to 2 in all game modes.

Someone in the balance department keeps trolling XD

I'm going to admit it... I was running round Tyria with a single pistol on my thief getting specific numbers to calculate efficiencies for a build I was making early this year. So I had to laugh abit when I saw the Repeater buff patch notes just a few months after I had done this. (If the devs saw a sudden increase in the number of Repeater skill activations in Tyria earlier this year, it was prolly me... but I don't really use a single pistol & I dont think anybody does or should.. but perhaps I will re-run my evaluations again when this patch goes live "for fun" lol).

FYI this is also a flip skill on the P/D set. It isn’t just for single Pistol users (of which there are none).

Thieves before level 6 when they unlock their off hand set if they try pistol.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Basharic.1654" said:Here's my question:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

How does removing a Daredevil's ability to use steal to close a long gap help us melee in any way?

If Anet wants us to melee they should be giving us
more
abilities to stick to a target not less. The range drop would be appropriate if we were getting something useful towards that end. Unblockable isn't it.

Maybe something like:

Physical Supremacy: This trait changes Steal to Hitched, which tethers the target to the thief and gives the thief a stolen skill and X seconds of X% base damage reduction. Toughness improves total reduction. Neither can leave 600 range of each other for X seconds. Stunbreaks used by either the thief or it's target will break the link. If either party attempts to use a skill to get out of range that is not a stun break it results in a knockdown and puts that skill on cooldown + X seconds. Stability applied after Hitched is engaged counters certain effects of Hitched but does not remove it - That means an attempted non-stunbreak maneuver to get out of range won't give the knockdown but the target still can't leave range. Stability applied before would prevent it of course.

It would work a lot like Guardian's Ring of Warding while allowing some counterplay for the target and helping the thief to be toe to toe for the duration. Most importantly it offers significant risk/reward choices in its use. Which is all I want.

And if you wanted to make it
really
sexy and give thief a GvG/WvW group perk, let it affect targets in an AOE. Would force the thief to use discretion on its use in small scale and be great for locking down targets for bombs.

As if thief wasn't op enough in gvg setups

Only thing thiefs OP at is running away.

Sorry but I guess you have no idea of thiefs, especially daredevils current position in gvgs

Cause you know, outsustaining multiple 18k hit jumps that can hit 5 people is pretty hard.

Look at good thiefs. It's the thieves a lot of the times, that down people or that prevent people from rezzing.

"Not every spec has to be very good in every gamemode." That's what someone told me. And that's true.

Else: make reaper and scourge and core insane for roaming, cause they suck at it.

Thief does at least have its place in zergfights and roaming with many different builds, necro is mostly limited to exactly one or two variations of scourge in zergs

And in roaming any good thief will always kill a necro.

Also thief has a very good spot in pve raids.

So what exactly are you crying about?

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@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Repeater: Initiative cost of this skill has been reduced from 4 to 2 in all game modes.

Someone in the balance department keeps trolling XD

I'm going to admit it... I was running round Tyria with a single pistol on my thief getting specific numbers to calculate efficiencies for a build I was making early this year. So I had to laugh abit when I saw the Repeater buff patch notes just a few months after I had done this. (If the devs saw a sudden increase in the number of Repeater skill activations in Tyria earlier this year, it was prolly me... but I don't really use a single pistol & I dont think anybody does or should.. but perhaps I will re-run my evaluations again when this patch goes live "for fun" lol).

FYI this is also a flip skill on the P/D set. It isn’t just for single Pistol users (of which there are none).

Thieves before level 6 when they unlock their off hand set if they try pistol.

The below 6 population is negligible. Yes, it exists but the point was to illuminate that by also giving the skill to p/d as a flip skill there is now an actual population that can/does use the skill.

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Basharic.1654" said:Here's my question:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

How does removing a Daredevil's ability to use steal to close a long gap help us melee in any way?

If Anet wants us to melee they should be giving us
more
abilities to stick to a target not less. The range drop would be appropriate if we were getting something useful towards that end. Unblockable isn't it.

Maybe something like:

Physical Supremacy: This trait changes Steal to Hitched, which tethers the target to the thief and gives the thief a stolen skill and X seconds of X% base damage reduction. Toughness improves total reduction. Neither can leave 600 range of each other for X seconds. Stunbreaks used by either the thief or it's target will break the link. If either party attempts to use a skill to get out of range that is not a stun break it results in a knockdown and puts that skill on cooldown + X seconds. Stability applied after Hitched is engaged counters certain effects of Hitched but does not remove it - That means an attempted non-stunbreak maneuver to get out of range won't give the knockdown but the target still can't leave range. Stability applied before would prevent it of course.

It would work a lot like Guardian's Ring of Warding while allowing some counterplay for the target and helping the thief to be toe to toe for the duration. Most importantly it offers significant risk/reward choices in its use. Which is all I want.

And if you wanted to make it
really
sexy and give thief a GvG/WvW group perk, let it affect targets in an AOE. Would force the thief to use discretion on its use in small scale and be great for locking down targets for bombs.

As if thief wasn't op enough in gvg setups

Only thing thiefs OP at is running away.

Sorry but I guess you have no idea of thiefs, especially daredevils current position in gvgs

Cause you know, outsustaining multiple 18k hit jumps that can hit 5 people is pretty hard.

Look at good thiefs. It's the thieves a lot of the times, that down people or that prevent people from rezzing.

"Not every spec has to be very good in every gamemode." That's what someone told me. And that's true.

Else: make reaper and scourge and core insane for roaming, cause they suck at it.

Thief does at least have its place in zergfights and roaming with many different builds, necro is mostly limited to exactly one or two variations of scourge in zergs

And in roaming any good thief will always kill a necro.

Also thief has a very good spot in pve raids.

So what exactly are you crying about?

Lmao I've played the class 4 yrs I know how they play.ofcourse a good roaming thief will kite and beat a necro,a necro can definitely destroy a thief if it tries to take on the necro in melee range but why would it unless the thief doesnt want to play using its mobility advantage over necro.i dont even use necro much but I've ate theives I'm melee range on my reaper. Theif is among the weakest 1v1 classes and necro happens to be one of the few classes that it can kite but like I said in melee even a dd is st a disadvantage against reaper unless ur not a good reaper. Thief is so OP in a pvp mode its given job is to decap and help out ally's that are already engaged,why? Because the few it can maybe 1v1 successfully it takes to long and waste time cuz its gbage dps and is always a gamble. A class doesnt get those jobs if its OP lmao unless getting to point A to B is a thing than that's what its OP at and who wants to play a class that's OP at that?real fun. If ur dying to thieves that arnt using niche stealth backstab one trick pony buildsvthats a definite l2p issue on ur part.

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Plz, move the Poisons trait (of thiefs) to another tree, where it will be used and combined!

In Art of the Shadows it has little to do, it does not combine with more fulminating features and stealth traits, worst it means sacrificing Stealth skills for Poison skills, gained little or no benefit.

Should be changed to another options, for example:

  • In Mortal Arts is more related, like in topics and with other traits
  • In the Acrobatics tree there is no skill trait.
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For a "trade-off" for dragonhunter why don't you make give barriers instead Aegis. Or have it that when aegis breaks it gains a small barrier.Give it a utility that Base guardian or FireBrand doesn't have. You need to revamp the elite spec any way so give it a new toy to play with.Instead of Retreat giving you swiftness and aegis, it gives you swiftness and 25% barrier.

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I like the idea of making the different elite specializations feel different through trade offs. I don't like the idea of pushing any specialization too heavily toward a hard trinity role (tank, heals, dps), which I feel they are hinting at with the druid changes. This isn't a raiding game and no single game mode should dictate how professions are designed.

The driving force should always be - "is it fun to play." Yes, make things feel different, but make them feel different based on their archetype, not on some pre-assigned slot required for a single game mode. While that may make it easier to design raid bosses, it makes things less fun for those in the rest of the game.

I know a small group of people will have issue with this thought, but I firmly believe the path they are taking with some of these changes crosses the line - pushing the game closer to being a WoW clone - and that is something we should avoid at all costs.

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@"Blaeys.3102" said:I like the idea of making the different elite specializations feel different through trade offs. I don't like the idea of pushing any specialization too heavily toward a hard trinity role (tank, heals, dps), which I feel they are hinting at with the druid changes. This isn't a raiding game and no single game mode should dictate how professions are designed.

The driving force should always be - "is it fun to play." Yes, make things feel different, but make them feel different based on their archetype, not on some pre-assigned slot required for a single game mode. While that may make it easier to design raid bosses, it makes things less fun for those in the rest of the game.

I know a small group of people will have issue with this thought, but I firmly believe the path they are taking with some of these changes crosses the line - pushing the game closer to being a WoW clone - and that is something we should avoid at all costs.

Healers should never have respectable damage and thats what a druid is, healer from top to bottom.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:

@"Blaeys.3102" said:I like the idea of making the different elite specializations feel different through trade offs. I don't like the idea of pushing any specialization too heavily toward a hard trinity role (tank, heals, dps), which I feel they are hinting at with the druid changes. This isn't a raiding game and no single game mode should dictate how professions are designed.

The driving force should always be - "is it fun to play." Yes, make things feel different, but make them feel different based on their archetype, not on some pre-assigned slot required for a single game mode. While that may make it easier to design raid bosses, it makes things less fun for those in the rest of the game.

I know a small group of people will have issue with this thought, but I firmly believe the path they are taking with some of these changes crosses the line - pushing the game closer to being a WoW clone - and that is something we should avoid at all costs.

Healers should never have respectable damage and thats what a druid is, healer from top to bottom.

The druid should be a ranger with a deeper connection to nature. That doesn't mean pure healer. It could just as easily mean reliance on poisons, vines, bleeds from thorns, etc.

The idea of the druid specializing in just heals is driven by the needs of a single game mode and sets a really bad precedent. Development should center around fun, interesting specializations - not what matches the needs of a niche game mode.

The berserker elite changes are a good example of how they can do this. Those changes are centered around compelling gameplay - not fitting into a pre-defined raid meta.

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@Blaeys.3102 said:

@Blaeys.3102 said:I like the idea of making the different elite specializations feel different through trade offs. I don't like the idea of pushing any specialization too heavily toward a hard trinity role (tank, heals, dps), which I feel they are hinting at with the druid changes. This isn't a raiding game and no single game mode should dictate how professions are designed.

The driving force should always be - "is it fun to play." Yes, make things feel different, but make them feel different based on their archetype, not on some pre-assigned slot required for a single game mode. While that may make it easier to design raid bosses, it makes things less fun for those in the rest of the game.

I know a small group of people will have issue with this thought, but I firmly believe the path they are taking with some of these changes crosses the line - pushing the game closer to being a WoW clone - and that is something we should avoid at all costs.

Healers should never have respectable damage and thats what a druid is, healer from top to bottom.

The druid should be a ranger with a deeper connection to nature. That doesn't mean pure healer. It could just as easily mean reliance on poisons, vines, bleeds from thorns, etc.

The idea of the druid specializing in just heals is driven by the needs of a single game mode and sets a really bad precedent. Development should center around fun, interesting specializations - not what matches the needs of a niche game mode.

The berserker elite changes are a good example of how they can do this. Those changes are centered around compelling gameplay - not fitting into a pre-defined raid meta.

The druid has been built and presented as a healer right from the beginning. A fundamental different way to play the ranger, so its a pure support spec. cemented further in the identify by downsizing the pet.

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Can you at least make Swipe usable only if there's a target? Why the Deadeye's mark is not wasted if there's no one targeted and for Swipe we waste the CD?

Edit: I didn't understand that havoc Specialist and Staff Master are now on the same tier. We had a +17% dmg modifier if our endurance wasn't full before, quite easy. Now it's just +5%, playing at the same way. Minus the 6,5% on 2 AA. Wow, massive nerf. I didn't realize it from the patch notes.On the other hand I have the same HP of my ranger now. Pity that I wasted money on that marauder set.

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@Asum.4960 said:

@"Wiler.9873" said:I have to let your know that...

"Fatal Frenzy: This trait no longer gives boons. Instead, while in berserk mode, this trait reduces toughness by 300, increases power by 300, and increases condition damage by 300."

This one in particular is kitten... like wow... really bad, there are signets in other classes that almost double this with no draw back, like assasins signed that gives you 540 power period.

In this game you usually go power build or condition, hybrids never work well (unless you are one of those degenerates that likes to play for fun) at least not inside the current meta, to lose 300 thoughness to get the benefits of either power or condi according to my "current build" isn't attractive at all.

It's a Minor Trait, so you will always have it, no matter if you are running a Power or Condi build.Giving it both is probably less to encourage hybrid builds rather than making sure to facilitate both Power and Condi builds, and not making the Trait essentially just be a negative if it just gave let's say Condition Damage and you were running a Power build.

Sacrificing 300 Toughness, especially as Heavy Armor class, for 300 Power and Condition damage is a pretty decent deal, even if you are only fully utilizing one of them. Especially on Warrior, which has the highest base health as well. It essentially makes you a Light Armor Class with the highest base health, comparable to a Necromancer, while gaining extra Power and Condition Damage.

Assassins Signet gives you 540 power for 5 seconds on a 20 second Cool Down, and has a much greater opportunity cost of being an Utility skill compared to a minor Trait, which makes them hardly comparable.

And who knows, maybe a Grieving Berserker with something like Flame Legion Runes will actually work well, but regardless, I'm not sure it helps to say Hybrids never work well while criticising trait additions that may be incredible potent for hybrid builds, potentially facilitating them, as useless.

I'm certainly excited to see how this performs first once it's live, and it's been a long time since anything on Warrior excited me to try it out.

This is one of those situations were I hope people like you is right and I'm totally wrong, I just love my warrior.

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@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:Wondering if solo druid will still be playable in PvE with the pet nerf.

RIP my Power Druid niche build with Shouts. ? Gonna miss Glyph of Empowerment for sure too; I used it all the time in both solo & group. Guess this means I might be switching back to vanilla Ranger or Soulbeast for PvE. (I can’t in good faith play my ranger without running Beastmastery <3 )

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@SilvanaVerdant.1679 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:Wondering if solo druid will still be playable in PvE with the pet nerf.

RIP my Power Druid niche build with Shouts. ? Gonna miss Glyph of Empowerment for sure too; I used it all the time in both solo & group. Guess this means I might be switching back to vanilla Ranger or Soulbeast for PvE. (I can’t in good faith play my ranger without running Beastmastery <3 )

Sad to hear your troubles. :(

I thought I might have to go back to core Ranger on my main, but went to Auric Basin today for a little while and found I could still solo a veteran Mordrem Vinetooth without noticeable extra effort, so I guess I will wait for a tough story boss before I panic any more. My axes weren't nerfed, happily.

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Anet. When I'm playing Zerker now, it's like I'm watching someone run the treadmill as long as possible then take a break for water. It's so incredibly boring. Don't do this guys just revert back the F1 F2 changes at least. It's not about damage and although thematically I love how creative you guys were, in terms of gameplay Berserker feels AWFUL. Certain abilities that you additionally tweaked or changes are really nice. I love that, but you did not need to change so much. This kind of shake up was unnecessary. Just had to give less toughness just to USE berserk honestly and we would've been fine. Or nerf damage. That would have been thematically sound AND would've allowed us to keep our dynamic gameplay.

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