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Worst thief patch of my life


MindWipe.3028

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This patch was clearly made for wvw staff thief cause no one in pvp even uses staff. But the problem that they are nerfing all the wrong things about staff thief. Why are they over here nerfing steal to dirt when daggerstorm still exists? the problem with staff thief in wvw is you can charge into a situation where you should by all means be dead, and then go and pop daggerstorm and get out for free. daggerstorm is skilless trash and needs to get nuked. meanwhile they need to buff s/d and dd damage (not through the cs line) and then i think thief would be where it needs to be.

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Issues the same as has in past,they aren't good at balancing classes. It honestly feels like the balance team on what little time theyve played have spent that time on a few favored classes all while being in charge of balancing all the classes resulting In balance and skill changes being done by what it appears like is someone that has very little knoledge of how a class is performing and how its mechanics work in game. That's why everyone scratches their heads at most balance patches and why new content can be added at a faster pace,they can communicate more often yet game will continue to decline. If u communicate more but disregard player feedback communication means little. If playing theme content is not enjoyable by bad balancing,lowered build diversity etc than new content is meaningless.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Didn't play yet, but on paper only real nerf is the range of steal. Outside of that I see only buffs

The buffs are small they will literally be insignificant and un noticed but the steal nerf was significant and will be noticed.

U basicly gain free dmg mitigation and deal more dmg to weakened foes, which u apply after every dodge. Instead of pi, u can have 15% increased dmg. It's 22 %of dmg increase already. U can also have around 13-14 k hp on full Berserker with 10% dmg mitigation or cleanse + 500 hp on evading an attack. I see much more build diversity even for d/p.I'm not saying steal range is fine cuz it's crap rn, but saying that given buffs are unsignificant is also crap. We need more testing. D/p is excluded from +1ing in pvp, but in wvw d/p will shine imo

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Didn't play yet, but on paper only real nerf is the range of steal. Outside of that I see only buffs

The buffs are small they will literally be insignificant and un noticed but the steal nerf was significant and will be noticed.

U basicly gain free dmg mitigation and deal more dmg to weakened foes, which u apply after every dodge. Instead of pi, u can have 15% increased dmg. It's 22 %of dmg increase already. U can also have around 13-14 k hp on full Berserker with 10% dmg mitigation or cleanse + 500 hp on evading an attack. I see much more build diversity even for d/p.I'm not saying steal range is fine cuz it's kitten rn, but saying that given buffs are unsignificant is also kitten. We need more testing. D/p is excluded from +1ing in pvp, but in wvw d/p will shine imo

Except, you already had all of those. The 500 hp on evading an attack was baseline, and you could pick it with something else. The damage increase on weakened enemies was already around as Havoc Mastery (which you could stack with whatever you picked in the master tier). The 15% on dodge happens never because that means fully expending your dodgerolls. It will basically be unpickable in PvP. D/P just uses impacting disruption anyway. And overall, you just lose a lot, and gain almost nothing. In exchange for losing the hp on dodge (or the reduced physical cooldowns and endurance), and as Staff losing either major amounts of damage or major amounts of endurance regeneration, you get a bit of weakness and 1 condi cleanse on dodge. Oh and of course a way worse steal. Yeah no, noone is gonna go DD anymore. D/P will drop it because even Impacting Disruption aint worth that shitty steal. Staff builds wont exist anymore because everything that made them good was eviscerated. And no other weaponsets used DD anyway.

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Turk.5460 said:It sure hurt my S/D Daredevil build, but the range nerf on Steal/Swipe doesn't really affect me with D/P Daredevil.

Am I the only one that imagines the unblockable steal with sleight of hand in sword builds being really nice? That's what I'm planning on testing.

An advantage of S/D is being able to gap close extreme distances with IS/Steal. Now with Daredevil using S/D your max gap close distance isn't even that of the minimum range of LB rangers.

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Turk.5460 said:It sure hurt my S/D Daredevil build, but the range nerf on Steal/Swipe doesn't really affect me with D/P Daredevil.

Am I the only one that imagines the unblockable steal with sleight of hand in sword builds being really nice? That's what I'm planning on testing.

I mean, the big question in this case is, when does the unblockable matter? If youre using Sleight of Hand, you want to be interrupting. But the only time youd be interrupting someone who is blocking is if they have Aegis. Which, as it so happens, already gets ripped by bountiful theft every time, so the unblockable is totally useless. The only time this combination would matter is against channeled block. And my question is, do you really want to be wasting your steal to stop a channeled block? Especially as the one weaponset that has a way to bank a nasty hit against channeled blocks.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Didn't play yet, but on paper only real nerf is the range of steal. Outside of that I see only buffs

The buffs are small they will literally be insignificant and un noticed but the steal nerf was significant and will be noticed.

U basicly gain free dmg mitigation and deal more dmg to weakened foes, which u apply after every dodge. Instead of pi, u can have 15% increased dmg. It's 22 %of dmg increase already. U can also have around 13-14 k hp on full Berserker with 10% dmg mitigation or cleanse + 500 hp on evading an attack. I see much more build diversity even for d/p.I'm not saying steal range is fine cuz it's kitten rn, but saying that given buffs are unsignificant is also kitten. We need more testing. D/p is excluded from +1ing in pvp, but in wvw d/p will shine imo

tried d/p its okay cus of skill 3 which is more or less ur main port nowadays but tbh its no worse or better then before.ur still a glass cannon the 10% dmg mitigation is nothing the +15% increase will barely ever happen so that trait is crap, so your most likely going for the +120 power and another +120 if wielding a staff

the dodge + cleanse / HP ye could be good, but then again most fights are chosen in WvW ur also likely to burst shit out of ur enemy who doesnt stand a chance so also i dont really see point of this trait unless ur dueling

anyway i tried today d/p / staff -10% dmg + -10% dmg food and staff mastery thing for +240 power and bounding dodger or w/e skill name is.didnt felt any different then pre patch. do wrong thing u insta fall over.

swipe is crap with the range.

in my eyes i know every1 will disagree (even i do i would personally do something else if i could) thief dmg needs to be increased by a hell alot.we are suppose to be top dps toons no? even a guardian can spike harder then a thief a warrior can crit with normal 1111 like i would do with a backstab and go on no hard feelings towards these classes i could mention a holo also who suppose to be in middle if u ask me not super dps neither super glass cannon and go on.we thiefs have no middle path i cant go tanky and still deal proper dmg i cant go full tank mode and sustain hell alot of hits cus i still die like a moronall we can do is dodge and dps or port in and out from fights till person dies (which is what every1 doing nowadays)

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Turk.5460 said:It sure hurt my S/D Daredevil build, but the range nerf on Steal/Swipe doesn't really affect me with D/P Daredevil.

Am I the only one that imagines the unblockable steal with sleight of hand in sword builds being really nice? That's what I'm planning on testing.

how this helps? steal would go tru everything also no? never got it blocked as far i know unless u mean mug? i kinda dont understand what they mean with unblockable or does swipe do dmg now? i didnt even check nor i really care.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Turk.5460 said:It sure hurt my S/D Daredevil build, but the range nerf on Steal/Swipe doesn't really affect me with D/P Daredevil.

Am I the only one that imagines the unblockable steal with sleight of hand in sword builds being really nice? That's what I'm planning on testing.

I mean, the big question in this case is, when does the unblockable matter? If youre using Sleight of Hand, you want to be interrupting. But the only time youd be interrupting someone who is blocking is if they have Aegis. Which, as it so happens, already gets ripped by bountiful theft every time, so the unblockable is totally useless. The only time this combination would matter is against channeled block. And my question is, do you
really
want to be wasting your steal to stop a channeled block? Especially as the one weaponset that has a way to bank a nasty hit against channeled blocks.

Here's where it will be useful w/SoH, interrupting the channeled defenses (at least from abilities I see commonly used in WvW)

Shield Stance (Warrior Shield)Crystal Hibernation (Rev Shield)Warding Rift (Rev Staff)Echo of Memory (Chrono Shield)Illusionary Counter (Mesmer Scepter)Shelter (Guard Heal)Static Shield (Engi Shield)

These skills are relied on by their casters as temporary relief or stall while more of their kit comes off of cooldown. They don't expect to get interrupted (and immediately pressured upon the interrupt) while channeling these. I expect a lot of those players to panic when this happens, especially Revs and Warriors.

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@reddie.5861 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Didn't play yet, but on paper only real nerf is the range of steal. Outside of that I see only buffs

The buffs are small they will literally be insignificant and un noticed but the steal nerf was significant and will be noticed.

U basicly gain free dmg mitigation and deal more dmg to weakened foes, which u apply after every dodge. Instead of pi, u can have 15% increased dmg. It's 22 %of dmg increase already. U can also have around 13-14 k hp on full Berserker with 10% dmg mitigation or cleanse + 500 hp on evading an attack. I see much more build diversity even for d/p.I'm not saying steal range is fine cuz it's kitten rn, but saying that given buffs are unsignificant is also kitten. We need more testing. D/p is excluded from +1ing in pvp, but in wvw d/p will shine imo

tried d/p its okay cus of skill 3 which is more or less ur main port nowadays but tbh its no worse or better then before.ur still a glass cannon the 10% dmg mitigation is nothing the +15% increase will barely ever happen so that trait is kitten, so your most likely going for the +120 power and another +120 if wielding a staff

the dodge + cleanse / HP ye could be good, but then again most fights are chosen in WvW ur also likely to burst kitten out of ur enemy who doesnt stand a chance so also i dont really see point of this trait unless ur dueling

anyway i tried today d/p / staff -10% dmg + -10% dmg food and staff mastery thing for +240 power and bounding dodger or w/e skill name is.didnt felt any different then pre patch. do wrong thing u insta fall over.

swipe is kitten with the range.

in my eyes i know every1 will disagree (even i do i would personally do something else if i could) thief dmg needs to be increased by a hell alot.we are suppose to be top dps toons no? even a guardian can spike harder then a thief a warrior can crit with normal 1111 like i would do with a backstab and go on no hard feelings towards these classes i could mention a holo also who suppose to be in middle if u ask me not super dps neither super glass cannon and go on.we thiefs have no middle path i cant go tanky and still deal proper dmg i cant go full tank mode and sustain hell alot of hits cus i still die like a moronall we can do is dodge and dps or port in and out from fights till person dies (which is what every1 doing nowadays)

Exactly this^If DD was to be a viable side noder that doesnt have to evade every attack(have a reasonably forgiving sustain level) against the powercrept classes that are out there today thief would need far more sustainability to be a viable brawler.the tiny buffs they gave DD in sustain are trivial

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@Turk.5460 said:

@Turk.5460 said:It sure hurt my S/D Daredevil build, but the range nerf on Steal/Swipe doesn't really affect me with D/P Daredevil.

Am I the only one that imagines the unblockable steal with sleight of hand in sword builds being really nice? That's what I'm planning on testing.

I mean, the big question in this case is, when does the unblockable matter? If youre using Sleight of Hand, you want to be interrupting. But the only time youd be interrupting someone who is blocking is if they have Aegis. Which, as it so happens, already gets ripped by bountiful theft every time, so the unblockable is totally useless. The only time this combination would matter is against channeled block. And my question is, do you
really
want to be wasting your steal to stop a channeled block? Especially as the one weaponset that has a way to bank a nasty hit against channeled blocks.

Here's where it will be useful w/SoH, interrupting the channeled defenses (at least from abilities I see commonly used in WvW)

Shield Stance (Warrior Shield)Crystal Hibernation (Rev Shield)Warding Rift (Rev Staff)Echo of Memory (Chrono Shield)Illusionary Counter (Mesmer Scepter)Shelter (Guard Heal)Static Shield (Engi Shield)

These skills are relied on by their casters as temporary relief or stall while more of their kit comes off of cooldown. They don't expect to get interrupted (and immediately pressured upon the interrupt) while channeling these. I expect a lot of those players to panic when this happens, especially Revs and Warriors.

Well, I addressed that at the end. The question is, do you want to use steal to stop a channeled block? Because believe me, its not good. Sure, you take away a bit of the time they try to buy, but at the same time, its highly unlikely you will be able to kill them during that bit, and then youll really wish you had steal when they hit you with whatever spell they were stalling for. It was already always possible with Basi Venom, yet you never did it because you just had better options.

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Honestly it's our fault as much as the clueless balance team,cant put all the blame on them.theyve slowly been ruining thief for yrs and we keep playing it.if every thief player dropped the class they'd have no choice but to acknowledge class is garbage now as they only understanding they seem to have is class play popularity

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Honestly it's our fault as much as the clueless balance team,cant put all the blame on them.theyve slowly been ruining thief for yrs and we keep playing it.if every thief player dropped the class they'd have no choice but to acknowledge class is garbage now as they only understanding they seem to have is class play popularity

Ask ele's how this strategy worked out.

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100% weakness uptime for free (minor trait)... 10% damage reduction from weakened foes. Further 10% damage reduction when you don't trait physical skills.

Perma weakness and another 20% damage reduction on top...

...but yea 600 range steal is a gamechanger because thieves have gapclosing issues (esp. when running dash which alone covers 450 distance). Thanks for the laugh! You can even use your superspeed dagger storm for gapclosing right next to tons of other options.

All the thieves feel hardcountered by pew pew rangers now because of.... because of what actually?

That buggy Sleight of Hand cooldown reduction sucks, but will be fixed in the next few days.

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@KrHome.1920 said:100% weakness uptime for free (minor trait)... 10% damage reduction from weakened foes. Further 10% damage reduction when you don't trait physical skills.

Perma weakness and another 20% damage reduction on top...

...but yea 600 range steal is a gamechanger because thieves have gapclosing issues (esp. when running dash which alone covers 450 distance). Thanks for the laugh! You can even use your superspeed dagger storm for gapclosing right next to tons of other options.

All the thieves feel hardcountered by pew pew rangers now because of.... because of what actually?

That buggy Sleight of Hand cooldown reduction sucks, but will be fixed in the next few days.

I love how a reaper player comes into a theif forum to tell thiefs their now dead spec is actually great lmao if u played thief ud realize all the things u mentioned translates to zero Impact in a fight,u literally get downed as quickly as the buffs were way to small to make any difference with the damage output classes put out these days and the sustain buff is minuscule and garbage.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Honestly it's our fault as much as the clueless balance team,cant put all the blame on them.theyve slowly been ruining thief for yrs and we keep playing it.if every thief player dropped the class they'd have no choice but to acknowledge class is garbage now as they only understanding they seem to have is class play popularity

I already dropped thief :D played so much it's still 70% of classes played. But been doing warrior n scrapper. Went straight to plat in a week. Never looked back. Tired an unranked game last night. N wow fuck that. Shit dmg. Everything kills u in 2 hits. It's just not fun.

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@Safandula.8723 said:Ok I've just played it, and 600 range is pure kitten on d/p. We should at least get a trait that gives us possibility to have 900 range or smthn

Same. I wanted to give it a chance. I usually ran Weakening Strikes prior to patch anyway so all I really got out of this patch was some condi cleanse and some damage. The 600 range Swipe is very noticeable.

To add insult to injury, Sleight of Hand is bugged and doesn't work on Swipe.

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@KrHome.1920 said:100% weakness uptime for free (minor trait)... 10% damage reduction from weakened foes. Further 10% damage reduction when you don't trait physical skills.

Perma weakness and another 20% damage reduction on top...

...but yea 600 range steal is a gamechanger because thieves have gapclosing issues (esp. when running dash which alone covers 450 distance). Thanks for the laugh! You can even use your superspeed dagger storm for gapclosing right next to tons of other options.

All the thieves feel hardcountered by pew pew rangers now because of.... because of what actually?

That buggy Sleight of Hand cooldown reduction sucks, but will be fixed in the next few days.

Fun facts: Its not 100% weakness uptime or even anywhere close to it. Its 3 seconds of weakness for every dodge, which takes an average of 10 seconds to recharge. Its actually worse than the previous Weakning strikes which were 5 seconds of weakness on a 10 second timer. Additionally, the damage reduction trait is in the same line as the previously innate heal on dodge trait. As well as the trait that everones been picking since it gives much needed CDR and endurance. So not only is weakened strikes generally worse than the previous version (which you never picked), the minor trait it used to be (which was actually really good) is now something you have to give up an actually good trait for. And now the last fun fact. These Trait changes are pretty major fucking nerfs. To a spec that was already bad.

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I honestly an outa words how arenanet who knows classes like soulbeast,warrior,scrapper/holo,scourge and fb exist yet this is what they do with thief lmao good luck arenanet hope uve got other game ideas for ur future endeavours cuz ur failing this one hard. Lol u know u failed when high level streamers try it than say it's not even worth playing in pvp lmao find change!

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well warrior nowadays can run like a idiot and hit like a thief used to do back in core when every1 dmg was still normal :D.

tbh i just cant drop my thief no matter how much i try play warrior i always miss my thief :( but yes thief nowadays is like playing a naked character u deal normal dmg but u take a shit load of dmg cus crits from people nowadays feel like backstabs back in core days.

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