MAKE Escapist's Fortitude Minor Master tier AGAIN! (Passive Trait)

[Lociaz.4027]

So you made a NERF again for the DareDevil...Most of all daredevils are useing Brawler's Tenacity.I remember when Bandits defense was 12 sec of CD then you nerfed to 16sec CD.Now all physical skills are nerfed and not giving endurance back.And how about other classes that give them selfs alot of might and boons.This is what we got....

So in my opinion both of these skills are working defensly way.Most of thieves got happy to the Merge of Escapist's Absolution with Driven Fortitude.But please keep it in same position.The Escapist's Fortitude should be passive.

[Cronos.6532]

No, Brawler's Tenacity is pretty bad. It only has some niche use in Raids or when you need a little more survivability in PvP.

[Lociaz.4027]

@Cronos.6532 said:No, Brawler's Tenacity is pretty bad. It only has some niche use in Raids or when you need a little more survivability in PvP.

My opinion, it's really great because all physical skills are lower cd and granting endurance back. This spamming weakness on every dodge it's useless with staff you apply weakness when needed. And more build will be more available when Escapist's Fortitude is a passive skill.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

I agree that Escapist Fortitude should trade places with Havoc Specialist. This way you can pick both Escapist and Marauder.

The current layout would make Marauder undesirable compared to Escapist -- it's not even a fair trade off. I'll take healing + cleanse on evade over vitality + dmg reduction any day. Brawler's is even better since it reduces the CD of Channeled Vigor. I get more health from heals than what I would get from 7% of my power. And if I'm already wearing a Marauder set, the extra vitality means nothing.

Now if the damage reduction of Marauder is 33% just like Resilience of Shadows, then it's a competitive trade-off. Since I need to get to melee range to get the damage reduction, I think 33% is fair.

[fluidmonolith.3584]

It seems odd to me considering many elite specs were designed to have three different 'roles' they could play - one for each row of traits. For example, rather than making DrD choose from one of three defensive traits at Adept, it could choose either a defensive trait, an offensive skill, or a CC / Physical one. And the same type of choice would be available at Master. Then you could build a 'tankier' DrD by choosing two defensive traits or an aggressive DrD by choosing two offensive ones., or a CC-oriented one with the third trait selection.

Here's my recommendation:

Major Adept:Staff MasterMarauder's ResilienceBrawler's Tenacity

Major Master:Havoc SpecialistEscapist's AbsolutionImpacting Disruption

Minor and Grandmaster traits unchanged.

[killy.3278]

@fluidmonolith.3584 said:It seems odd to me considering many elite specs were designed to have three different 'roles' they could play - one for each row of traits. For example, rather than making DrD choose from one of three defensive traits at Adept, it could choose either a defensive trait, an offensive skill, or a CC / Physical one. And the same type of choice would be available at Master. Then you could build a 'tankier' DrD by choosing two defensive traits or an aggressive DrD by choosing two offensive ones., or a CC-oriented one with the third trait selection.

This.

I'm really disappointed by the new traits layout. Basically no matter how you slice it, DD is forced to take one defensive trait and one damage trait. There's no room for optimization for the style the player prefers. So regardless of which combination you go with, both offense and defense ends up mediocre at best.

I suspect ANET is scared of pve thieves stacking staff master + havoc specialist + weakening strikes. That's potentially +22% damage and 240 power, whereas previously staff DD already had competitive DPS in raids from the old traits granting +17% damage.

[SehferViega.8725]

@killy.3278 said:

@"fluidmonolith.3584" said:It seems odd to me considering many elite specs were designed to have three different 'roles' they could play - one for each row of traits. For example, rather than making DrD choose from one of three defensive traits at Adept, it could choose either a defensive trait, an offensive skill, or a CC / Physical one. And the same type of choice would be available at Master. Then you could build a 'tankier' DrD by choosing two defensive traits or an aggressive DrD by choosing two offensive ones., or a CC-oriented one with the third trait selection.

This.

I'm really disappointed by the new traits layout. Basically no matter how you slice it, DD is forced to take one defensive trait and one damage trait. There's no room for optimization for the style the player prefers. So regardless of which combination you go with, both offense and defense ends up mediocre at best.

I suspect ANET is scared of pve thieves stacking staff master + havoc specialist + weakening strikes. That's potentially +22% damage and 240 power, whereas previously staff DD already had competitive DPS in raids from the old traits granting +17% damage.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74348/reorganize-new-daredevil-traits-in-a-better-order#latest

Anyone who play Daredevil know that the actual traits layout is a nerf and kills builds' diversity. I made a poll, we can discuss, I only hope they do something to fix the huge damage they made in DD

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@killy.3278 said:

@"fluidmonolith.3584" said:It seems odd to me considering many elite specs were designed to have three different 'roles' they could play - one for each row of traits. For example, rather than making DrD choose from one of three defensive traits at Adept, it could choose either a defensive trait, an offensive skill, or a CC / Physical one. And the same type of choice would be available at Master. Then you could build a 'tankier' DrD by choosing two defensive traits or an aggressive DrD by choosing two offensive ones., or a CC-oriented one with the third trait selection.

This.

I'm really disappointed by the new traits layout. Basically no matter how you slice it, DD is forced to take one defensive trait and one damage trait. There's no room for optimization for the style the player prefers. So regardless of which combination you go with, both offense and defense ends up mediocre at best.

I suspect ANET is scared of pve thieves stacking staff master + havoc specialist + weakening strikes. That's potentially +22% damage and 240 power, whereas previously staff DD already had competitive DPS in raids from the old traits granting +17% damage.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74348/reorganize-new-daredevil-traits-in-a-better-order#latest

Anyone who play Daredevil know that the actual traits layout is a nerf and kills builds' diversity. I made a poll, we can discuss, I only hope they do something to fix the huge damage they made in DD

Nothing will be done unfortunately.they are probobly under the impression these were good changes lmao and think all the thief players are wrong.plus they basically never revert changes as if it's to hard for them to admit they were wrong, real mature behavior.

[SehferViega.8725]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Nothing will be done unfortunately.they are probobly under the impression these were good changes lmao and think all the thief players are wrong.plus they basically never revert changes as if it's to hard for them to admit they were wrong, real mature behavior.

Yes, you're right: they usually are deaf to player's requests and this is a no sense behavior: we know really well the class cause we play it more then them, so we are the best tester.

But if a large part of the community ask for a change, they do something (not always the right thing.. but we can at least hope in a change), as it happens with warclaw mounts: in a couple of days it has pass from being a no sense OP WvW killer to a bearable evil.

[babazhook.6805]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I agree that Escapist Fortitude should trade places with Havoc Specialist. This way you can pick both Escapist and Marauder.

The current layout would make Marauder undesirable compared to Escapist -- it's not even a fair trade off. I'll take healing + cleanse on evade over vitality + dmg reduction any day. Brawler's is even better since it reduces the CD of Channeled Vigor. I get more health from heals than what I would get from 7% of my power. And if I'm already wearing a Marauder set, the extra vitality means nothing.

Now if the damage reduction of Marauder is 33% just like Resilience of Shadows, then it's a competitive trade-off. Since I need to get to melee range to get the damage reduction, I think 33% is fair.

I disagree. I never used Escapists in my older builds barring one as I relied on Trickster and or the Acro line for the needed cleanses prefering PI and Staff mastery. With the new layout I can get 20 percent damage reduction out of Daredvil on its own and I find that better then a cleanse and added heal and especially against pew pew rangers. If one assumes a 500 heal from fortitude on a successful evade , 2000 more health which is permanent and knocking ten percent off all damage incoming puts you ahead. Combine that 10 percent mitigation with the UC reduction and or damage reduction food in WvW and we are talking significant reductions.

Obviously a lot relies on your other condition cleanse sourcs. As example s/x with its built in cleanse and the likelihood one is in Acro where ine can take more fares better here then d/p. That said I have been using staff d/p for quite a while in WvW and did not take the Old escapists. Nor did I take Brawlers as I preferred Havoc mastery.

To the suggestion of 33 percent that far to high for a minor adept trait and especially one that is always on. 15 might be a reasonable ask if this in fact not enough but anything higher does not belong in minor adept.

[SehferViega.8725]

@"babazhook.6805" said:

I disagree. I never used Escapists in my older builds barring one as I relied on Trickster and or the Acro line for the needed cleanses prefering PI and Staff mastery. With the new layout I can get 20 percent damage reduction out of Daredvil on its own and I find that better then a cleanse and added heal and especially against pew pew rangers. If one assumes a 500 heal from fortitude on a successful evade , 2000 more health which is permanent and knocking ten percent off all damage incoming puts you ahead. Combine that 10 percent mitigation with the UC reduction and or damage reduction food in WvW and we are talking significant reductions.

Obviously a lot relies on your other condition cleanse sourcs. As example s/x with its built in cleanse and the likelihood one is in Acro where ine can take more fares better here then d/p. That said I have been using staff d/p for quite a while in WvW and did not take the Old escapists. Nor did I take Brawlers as I preferred Havoc mastery.

To the suggestion of 33 percent that far to high for a minor adept trait and especially one that is always on. 15 might be a reasonable ask if this in fact not enough but anything higher does not belong in minor adept.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74348/reorganize-new-daredevil-traits-in-a-better-order#latest

With this layout you can have Escapist's Fortitude + Weakening Strikes + Marauder's Resilience + Unhindered Combatant to maximize damage reduction, you can run with Havoc Specialist + Escapist's Fortitude + Staff Master + Bounding Dodger to maximise DPS in PvE or in order to play a oneshot staff WvW build or you can play a mix of defensive and offensive traits.

The actual layout kills builds' diversity, cause a loss of DPS in PvE, improve basically nothing in WvW or PvP (only a little condi clean).. so we gain nothing, but we lose 600r teleport with Swipe.

[Lociaz.4027]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048I hope you and your balanceteam seen this post.

And this one also:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74348/reorganize-new-daredevil-traits-in-a-better-order#latest

Thanks in forwards!

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:I agree that Escapist Fortitude should trade places with Havoc Specialist. This way you can pick both Escapist and Marauder.

The current layout would make Marauder undesirable compared to Escapist -- it's not even a fair trade off. I'll take healing + cleanse on evade over vitality + dmg reduction any day. Brawler's is even better since it reduces the CD of Channeled Vigor. I get more health from heals than what I would get from 7% of my power. And if I'm already wearing a Marauder set, the extra vitality means nothing.

Now if the damage reduction of Marauder is 33% just like Resilience of Shadows, then it's a competitive trade-off. Since I need to get to melee range to get the damage reduction, I think 33% is fair.

I disagree. I never used Escapists in my older builds barring one as I relied on Trickster and or the Acro line for the needed cleanses prefering PI and Staff mastery. With the new layout I can get 20 percent damage reduction out of Daredvil on its own and I find that better then a cleanse and added heal and especially against pew pew rangers. If one assumes a 500 heal from fortitude on a successful evade , 2000 more health which is permanent and knocking ten percent off all damage incoming puts you ahead. Combine that 10 percent mitigation with the UC reduction and or damage reduction food in WvW and we are talking significant reductions.

I don't take Trick or Acro in my DD build, instead I take DA and CS. If I have to trade either DA or CS to get cleanse from Acro, then that is a deal breaker for me. With both DA and CS, I don't need to take Staff Mastery. With this setup, Brawler's and Escapist are staple traits.

The question I ask myself is; why take a whole Acro traitline if the I can take a single trait (Escapist) that do almost the same thing?

I agree that you can build with Acro for cleanse, but that will cost you a lot of damage output. You sure can survive, but I doubt you'll be dealing enough damage.

Obviously a lot relies on your other condition cleanse sourcs. As example s/x with its built in cleanse and the likelihood one is in Acro where ine can take more fares better here then d/p. That said I have been using staff d/p for quite a while in WvW and did not take the Old escapists. Nor did I take Brawlers as I preferred Havoc mastery.

With the new trait layout, I cannot take both Brawler and Escapist, so it broke my build. That's why they need to swap them or make Escapist a Minor Master trait.

To the suggestion of 33 percent that far to high for a minor adept trait and especially one that is always on. 15 might be a reasonable ask if this in fact not enough but anything higher does not belong in minor adept.

That's the thing, it's NOT "always on". You have to get to melee range to activate it. In the mean time, the Ranger is shooting at you at 1500 range.

[kuteykathy.8123]

@Cronos.6532 said:No, Brawler's Tenacity is pretty bad. It only has some niche use in Raids or when you need a little more survivability in PvP.

Strongly disagree here. Echoing Lociaz's reply about reduced cooldowns and some endurance, I run a lot of physical skills on my bar (channeled vigor, impairing daggers, bandit's defense, impact strike). I derive a lot of benefit from using physical skills out in WvW (never been in a Raid before) from the endurance return, immob/condi, interrupts, instant stomp, and more.

It's unfortunate now with the trait reshuffle to get either a trait improving the Physical skills granted by Daredevil or a trait for condition cleanse. I'm going to miss being able to freely branch out from running the Trickster trait and Shadowstep. It was fun playing with mostly Physical skills :(

[Lociaz.4027]

Thanks to everyone who is with me!Let's go fellow Thiefs! ?

[HyperLooser.2698]

In pve i like this new daredevil layout, if reorganize happens, make it specific only to wvw/pvp, which they wont cuz its not a simple split of skills but entire tree reorganize.

So either way its either pve gets screwed or wvwv/pvp gets screwed. Anet might aswell just split Wvw/pvp from main GW2 and make it a seperate game and add battle royal and stuff into it.