Jump to content
  • Sign Up

How do people play rangers in Zerg squad?


Ryudnard.2587

Recommended Posts

The pew pew pew seemed kind of fun and chill. So I tried Soulbeast Power build with Long Bow using the Stance Share build. And man, I just die so many times following the tag. If I stay front line, I literally die in like 2 seconds. If I stay in the tail, I die to random conditions. I was using full Berserker, but isn't all rangers like this? Do I need some toughness or vitality even as a glass cannon in WvW? Any tips to play Rangers really well in squad?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You don't, plus most squads wont take you in anyway.If you want to play ranger do it by yourself, yeah you can follow tag around but don't try to get in melee range.Be aware of your surroundings, pick a target and pew pew it down > next target.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look not at the Rangers you see in other servers squads but at the amount of other players in that squad. A blobby server can and does get away with Rangers in (or tagging along with) their squad, cause blobs don't care who you are, just that you have supply and can snipe the guy trying to disable your catas. Whereas the opposition that's usually half or less the size of the blobby ranger infused squad can not get by with these types of tag alongs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:Look not at the Rangers you see in other servers squads but at the amount of other players in that squad. A blobby server can and does get away with Rangers in (or tagging along with) their squad, cause blobs don't care who you are, just that you have supply and can snipe the guy trying to disable your catas. Whereas the opposition that's usually half or less the size of the blobby ranger infused squad can not get by with these types of tag alongs.

You dont need to be in squad for autohitting some people on the wall. And yes, if there are two equal blobs, if there are 5 rangers in your squad or 5 meta classes it does matter. Those 5 rangers drain boons. So even a 50 man squad does care who is in there (if you actually care for the fight and dont go wvw for farming NPCs in towers/keeps)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryudnard.2587 don't listen to these nay sayers. It can be done on a soulbeast with ease. Aim for ~23k HP and 2900-3000 Armor, put the rest in damage. Use Axe/Axe + GS, with brown bear (condi clear on restack, endure pain in beastmode + heal) + fern hound (heal & regen on restack, leap and knock down + heal in beastmode). Bear stance, Protect me, Dollyak stance, Signet of stone, elite to your liking (I use SOTP for extra stab and insta 25 might stacks). BM 3-3-3, WS 1-2-3, SB 2-1-2.Within a decent squad it will be hard for you to actually die, while you should be in the upper third of dps.Just don't use glass + longbow and expect to survive inside a zerg, it's hard to pull off - also reflect spam. It can be done as well but it won't be as efficient as you will work on staying alive more than doing damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Ryudnard.2587 don't listen to these nay sayers. It can be done on a soulbeast with ease. Aim for ~23k HP and 2900-3000 Armor, put the rest in damage. Use Axe/Axe + GS, with brown bear (condi clear on restack, endure pain in beastmode + heal) + fern hound (heal & regen on restack, leap and knock down + heal in beastmode). Bear stance, Protect me, Dollyak stance, Signet of stone, elite to your liking (I use SOTP for extra stab and insta 25 might stacks). BM 3-3-3, WS 1-2-3, SB 2-1-2.Within a decent squad it will be hard for you to actually die, while you should be in the upper third of dps.Just don't use glass + longbow and expect to survive inside a zerg, it's hard to pull off - also reflect spam. It can be done as well but it won't be as efficient as you will work on staying alive more than doing damage.

So your Axe+Axe and GS is for melee build correct? Can I use Long Bow + GS to play both Melee and Range?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to zerg, you're better off using a class that is better suited to zerging (party wide boon support, buffs, AoE pressure, boon strips just to name a few). I recommend you check out websites like metabattle and vabbi builds for in depth reasoning + options.

Ranger is best suited to small scale, 1v1 due to it being mostly singe-target.

Hope that helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So your Axe+Axe and GS is for melee build correct? Can I use Long Bow + GS to play both Melee and Range?

In a zerg fight, longbow offers a lot less than axe/axe. Axes at 900 range offer might generation, aoe chill + spike dmg, aoe pull, reflect + melee range spike. And since axe auto attack bounces, you hit the 2nd target on the flank 90% of the time - here is where sigil of purity comes into play, meaning you remove 1 condi every 4s.

As some commented here already, if you really want to play in zergs, roll a meta class and build, it's going to be easier to play that most of the time. By easier I mean you'll get accepted in a squad even if you're dying within 10s of a fight. I regularly see necros, eles and revs who insta die in fights basically contributing nothing to the fight, yet they're welcomed to a squad with open arms.But if you want to play ranger in a zerg and they'll take you, then go the melee route as it (in my opinion) offers the most. Or you can just hang way back and pew enemy necros until a thief notices you. Either way, if you kill more than you die, you're being useful one way or the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's about developing a sense of positioning. It takes time and can't really be taught. You just have to get used to the flow of zergs and what you can and can't handle. Like walking through a crowd of people you can still see a clear path ahead of you even with everyone constantly moving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No will probably never get a squad invite, you can still run with them. But you will need to stay behind a bit or to the side, depending on the fight, and not be a rallybot or else you will get lots of shit.If you finished downed and pressure necros you can still be of some use for the server, just not for the squad. Such is the life of the unwanted classes in wvw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I love this game I am shocked that Anet has let the Ranger become such a horrible pvp class. Everyone should just run with Necro, Ele, etc and then they would have to fix this bs. The ranger is a crucial fighter in a large scale fight except for in this game. All cloth classes should be cowering in fear when they see rangers. Pvp in this game is too damn out of balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@vinc.6047 said:As much as I love this game I am shocked that Anet has let the Ranger become such a horrible pvp class. Everyone should just run with Necro, Ele, etc and then they would have to fix this bs. The ranger is a crucial fighter in a large scale fight except for in this game. All cloth classes should be cowering in fear when they see rangers. Pvp in this game is too kitten out of balance.

They already do because ranger oneshots them all. It doesn't have aoes though so it's not very impactful in large scale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@shortcake.8659 said:2x longbow marks/skirm/sb and rain barrages down everywhere. you'll be everyone's hero.

„Dies to retaliation instantly“

@vinc.6047 said:As much as I love this game I am shocked that Anet has let the Ranger become such a horrible pvp class. Everyone should just run with Necro, Ele, etc and then they would have to fix this bs. The ranger is a crucial fighter in a large scale fight except for in this game. All cloth classes should be cowering in fear when they see rangers. Pvp in this game is too kitten out of balance.

Ranger are amazing everywhere.Except for Zerging.

If ranger had a non projectile AoE weapon, they would even be amazing in zerging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@shortcake.8659 said:2x longbow marks/skirm/sb and rain barrages down everywhere. you'll be everyone's hero.

„Dies to retaliation instantly“

rofl --- Dies instantly? oh hey, I've been knocked back... even lost a bit of health from retaliation.. but NEVER have I even come close to dying. Possibly because I know how to build my ranger... or more likely because retaliation isn't as nasty as most people say it is.

@"vinc.6047" said:As much as I love this game I am shocked that Anet has let the Ranger become such a horrible pvp class. Everyone should just run with Necro, Ele, etc and then they would have to fix this bs. The ranger is a crucial fighter in a large scale fight except for in this game. All cloth classes should be cowering in fear when they see rangers. Pvp in this game is too kitten out of balance.

Ranger are amazing everywhere.Except for Zerging.

If ranger had a non projectile AoE weapon, they would even be amazing in zerging.

I run ranger exclusively in zergs. I run backline. Knowing when to drop the LB5 AOE damage is critical if you want to be useful. Running the big of boon boost etc that soulbeast has can be useful if you have a group running backline with you. Also people think Ranger is about hitting one person at a time... WRONG, spec it correctly and hit many, not just one.

Taking out wall siege is done by ele's and rangers. Most squads have very few ele's and rangers... the ones that throw rangers out are either fight only squads, or just don't care about wall siege.

As for zerg support. Not every class provides support in a zerg. Don't even talk to me about warrior/spellbreakers because pfft. I've run everything and I kill so many more enemy with my soulbeast build than I ever did with any other class. Anyone that thinks that a solid super DPS class isn't needed in a zerg simply hasn't seen someone that knows how to run on properly.

Now as to the OP's question.. You die because your build is wrong and haven't yet learned to play whatever flavour of ranger you're using. If you want a zerg to have a bit of warm and fuzzies about your ranger you need to prove that you're a beast. Can you solo a tower with it for example? Can you take down a T1 camp and get the ring up BEFORE the swords appear? Can you take down that simple little sentry in less than 3 seconds?

imo, the key to figuring out how to survive on a Ranger is to go out and roam with it. Find some friends and run a small roaming/havoc group. LEARN the class. People talk smack that it's just pewpew and anyone can play it. I can say the same about all classes. There is literally NO class that anyone can just "walk into" and be useful at. No not even Firebrand like some suggest.

I have all classes, fully upgraded, all ascended, blahblahblah.. know how to play each of them. I choose my Soulbeast simply because it's a lot more fun for me than the others and because I can support my zergs in ways they understand... and frankly all this talk about being kicked out of zergs... I've never seen it. Possibly that's because I've run with people here for years and they know me and what I can do? Not sure, but I have to say I've seen lots of people that run rangers that make me smh.

Get good, very very good... run along side a squad and get to know people. If you're committed to Ranger then it's going to take some time if you're new to it. It's only simple to those people that don't know it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:As for zerg support. Not every class provides support in a zerg. Don't even talk to me about warrior/spellbreakers because pfft. I've run everything and I kill so many more enemy with my soulbeast build than I ever did with any other class. Anyone that thinks that a solid super DPS class isn't needed in a zerg simply hasn't seen someone that knows how to run on properly.I don't necessarily disagree with you, however, I think that you are not factoring in all necessary aspects into this.

Can a class be useful on sheer damage? Sure. Can a Ranger do that to a fair degree? Sure. However, are other classes that only do that in the meta? Are other classes that only do that wanted in a squad? Are other classes that only do that useful to a squad? There are alot of differences in that fine print, such as being useful to a squad or in a squad. There are classes like the Ele (Weaver) who more or less have a sheer damage role in the existing large-scale environment. However, the Ele much like the Ranger do struggle with only maintaining such a role (at least in a broad sweeping perspective). It isn't really meta in the most simple definition of current meta. As a damage dealer it also has access to more 5-target effects and more non-projectile effects making its engagement envelope broader. By that I mean that an Ele may not always do more damage than a Ranger but an Ele does not have to spend as much time picking its fights, it maintains its role in more situations.

So there is a relation between meta - Eles - Rangers. That does not assume that a Ranger is impossible or even worse in all kinds of situations but it is further from meta. It has a smaller envelope, more of a niche, less of a role, is more situationally bound and depends on- or adds less to the composition of a squad. It remains a perfectly good class within small niches outside of- but with squads. If someone then wants to give a Ranger a squad spot for social reasons or to feed them some moderately useful perks that's fine. However, the Ranger probably remains better within a party of friends outside a squad in the current meta or environment. The same could easily be said for an Ele right now, or a Thief (DD). That's not a slight to the class, it's where they thrive and how you should play them if you are serious about contributing best as possible.

It's just that people have problems navigating between the social and mechanical in WvW based on how the game works in general or what WvW has stooped to given available content and balance - the mode has a steep decrease in leadership and organisation with the loss various guilds. That is what has brought about this nitpicking about meta. In fact, Anet should not try to fit things into meta, that is just life-support, they should fit things into clear cut roles and encourage players to take initiative with organisation. In terms of the Ranger they are sadly doing the opposite by killing off whatever impopular but existing roles and niches it has/had while being seemingly incapable of fitting it into the mold (meta). Yesterday's patch was a glaring example of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

Also people think Ranger is about hitting one person at a time... WRONG, spec it correctly and hit many, not just one.

imo, the key to figuring out how to survive on a Ranger is to go out and roam with it. Find some friends and run a small roaming/havoc group. LEARN the class. People talk smack that it's just pewpew and anyone can play it. I can say the same about all classes. There is literally NO class that anyone can just "walk into" and be useful at. No not even Firebrand like some suggest. "

This. Specced longbow is still very effective, just not overpowered like years ago. Like any other profession, a focused build is more effective.

If I am doing a mix of activities, Soulbeast is awesome. Great mobility and burst. Roaming, doing dailies, or supporting a zerg, it works great. Survive-ability depends on timing and dodging--being in the right place at the right time. If I am going to join a zerg for the evening, I switch to a meta build (backline hammer) because I can down more invaders. But that Herald build is pretty useless outside a zerg, unlike the ranger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@shortcake.8659 said:2x longbow marks/skirm/sb and rain barrages down everywhere. you'll be everyone's hero.

„Dies to retaliation instantly“

rofl --- Dies instantly? oh hey, I've been knocked back... even lost a bit of health from retaliation.. but NEVER have I even come close to dying. Possibly because I know how to build my ranger... or more likely because retaliation isn't as nasty as most people say it is.

if you are running dual longbows and barrage every 8 seconds, i can assure you that you most certainly will have an issue of dying from retaliation. you actually do pretty solid damage though if you aim them well, and throw cripple everywhere. And eat aegises. you gotta take what you can if you're playing a ranger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:As for zerg support. Not every class provides support in a zerg. Don't even talk to me about warrior/spellbreakers because pfft. I've run everything and I kill so many more enemy with my soulbeast build than I ever did with any other class. Anyone that thinks that a solid super DPS class isn't needed in a zerg simply hasn't seen someone that knows how to run on properly.I don't necessarily disagree with you, however, I think that you are not factoring in all necessary aspects into this.

Can a class be useful on sheer damage? Sure. Can a Ranger do that to a fair degree? Sure. However, are other classes that only do that in the meta? Are other classes that only do that wanted in a squad? Are other classes that only do that useful to a squad? There are alot of differences in that fine print, such as being useful to a squad or in a squad. There are classes like the Ele (Weaver) who more or less have a sheer damage role in the existing large-scale environment. However, the Ele much like the Ranger do struggle with only maintaining such a role (at least in a broad sweeping perspective). It isn't really meta in the most simple definition of current meta. As a damage dealer it also has access to more 5-target effects and more non-projectile effects making its engagement envelope broader. By that I mean that an Ele may not always do more damage than a Ranger but an Ele does not have to spend as much time picking its fights, it maintains its role in more situations.

So there is a relation between meta - Eles - Rangers. That does not assume that a Ranger is impossible or even worse in all kinds of situations but it is further from meta. It has a smaller envelope, more of a niche, less of a role, is more situationally bound and depends on- or adds less to the composition of a squad. It remains a perfectly good class within small niches outside of- but with squads. If someone then wants to give a Ranger a squad spot for social reasons or to feed them some moderately useful perks that's fine. However, the Ranger probably remains better within a party of friends outside a squad in the current meta or environment. The same could easily be said for an Ele right now, or a Thief (DD). That's not a slight to the class, it's where they thrive and how you should play them if you are serious about contributing best as possible.

It's just that people have problems navigating between the social and mechanical in WvW based on how the game works in general or what WvW has stooped to given available content and balance - the mode has a steep decrease in leadership and organisation with the loss various guilds. That is what has brought about this nitpicking about meta. In fact, Anet should not try to fit things into meta, that is just life-support, they should fit things into clear cut roles and encourage players to take initiative with organisation. In terms of the Ranger they are sadly doing the opposite by killing off whatever impopular but existing roles and niches it has/had while being seemingly incapable of fitting it into the mold (meta). Yesterday's patch was a glaring example of that.

I do agree with you for the large part. Ranger is definitely a niche and frankly if you are trying to get into a "fight only" group forget it. I love my Ranger and will play it exclusively as long as we are running a combination of ppt and fights. If the zerg I'm in wants to just do fights and no capping then I make the choice to either go run a havoc group somewhere, or switch to either my scourge or spellbreaker.

The distinction that people, even me, haven't really made is that Rangers really are NOT good in zerg vs zerg fighting. Ya you can pick people off and yes I kill a lot of enemy but I agree it's mostly self serving because.. I can survive ok on my own if I keep out of the way but I'm not giving support to the group other than kills. The other zerg type classes do that better. THAT is the issue with kicking Rangers out of squads. If, however, the zerg/squad IS capping points/keeps/towers etc then Rangers in the group are extremely helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@shortcake.8659 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@shortcake.8659 said:2x longbow marks/skirm/sb and rain barrages down everywhere. you'll be everyone's hero.

„Dies to retaliation instantly“

rofl --- Dies instantly? oh hey, I've been knocked back... even lost a bit of health from retaliation.. but NEVER have I even come close to dying. Possibly because I know how to build my ranger... or more likely because retaliation isn't as nasty as most people say it is.

if you are running dual longbows and barrage every 8 seconds, i can assure you that you most certainly will have an issue of dying from retaliation. you actually do pretty solid damage though if you aim them well, and throw cripple everywhere. And eat aegises. you gotta take what you can if you're playing a ranger.

.. the cooldown applies to longbow regardless if you swap to the "other" one... so having two of them is the same as having only one and totally wastes a second weapon set slot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...