20-25 fps on fights - bought new processor and... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

20-25 fps on fights - bought new processor and...

Barely an improvement? Went from an i5 4460 to i7 4790S

I know it's not an amazing upgrade, but still, I figured my i5 was getting old since 9 months ago (last time I played) it wasn't this laggy (20ish fps), which made me get this i7. Lo and behold as this 2012 game is still making my struggle to even maintain consistent 30fps in small fights such as pvp arena...

video card is gtx1050, resolution is 1920x1080, ram 8gb.

Are there any tips to increase my fps? Any config settings? It's kind of absurd tbh.

Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

Comments

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Try lowering options, especially Model Limit and Model Quality.
    I just got a 1050 and I no longer have issues at fights; I used to get 2 to maybe 4 (if I was lucky) FPS.
    I, pretty much, have everything maxed, though.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Try lowering options, especially Model Limit and Model Quality.
    I just got a 1050 and I no longer have issues at fights; I used to get 2 to maybe 4 (if I was lucky) FPS.
    I, pretty much, have everything maxed, though.

    what's your average fps in:
    1. world events
    2. spvp 5v5
    3. wvw roaming
    4. open world with no one around

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    I know the the design of GW2 is such that it has troubles with some content, and that it is now easy to fix. I just wish it could do a better job of dynamically adjusting settings. Somewhat annoying that going through PvE you can have really high settings, and then FPS sinks when you get into a big boss fight. So you have the choice of turning settings way down all the time, or suffering with the change.
    Some settings make a much bigger difference than others. The problem is that it is often hard to sort these out, as it is hard to reproduce big combats (are there more combatants here than before? Different effects, etc). So it does just take a bit of fiddling. Best bet is to probably turn things to minimum, and then 1 at a time, start turning things to better quality, etc, and play with that for a little while (some changes don't take effect until you change maps also, making it even harder to tweak settings and get meaningful results)

  • @Solvar.7953 said:
    I know the the design of GW2 is such that it has troubles with some content, and that it is now easy to fix. I just wish it could do a better job of dynamically adjusting settings. Somewhat annoying that going through PvE you can have really high settings, and then FPS sinks when you get into a big boss fight. So you have the choice of turning settings way down all the time, or suffering with the change.
    Some settings make a much bigger difference than others. The problem is that it is often hard to sort these out, as it is hard to reproduce big combats (are there more combatants here than before? Different effects, etc). So it does just take a bit of fiddling. Best bet is to probably turn things to minimum, and then 1 at a time, start turning things to better quality, etc, and play with that for a little while (some changes don't take effect until you change maps also, making it even harder to tweak settings and get meaningful results)

    This is quite wrong. The game is coded as such that with optimal hardware and settings you will struggle to hold 40fps in WvW/Lions Arch/Crystal Oasis. This can not be changed in the current engine and hardware isn't the limiter ( you will get similar performance on an i7 chromeboook with onboard as you do on a $3000 PC, I've tested this with my last PC (i7 and gtx 1070) and my new one (amd 4700 and 2080ti). Playing beyond lowest/lowest or low/low is purely for people who are happy with sub 60 fps (pretty constant if not solo) with stutters into the 30s (sometimes 20s :( ). This is unavoidable and I wish we as a community wouldn't recommend people spend money on PCs to combat it. The best thing you can do for gw2 stability is buy a DX9 PC (aka components released when DX9 was standard rather then DX10, 11 or 12) as this will make a meaningful difference.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    My FPS increased considerably when I bought a new computer. However, there are lots of factors involved - GW2 does not use lots of cores, so getting a CPU with lots of cores does not much for GW2, where as other better written games can use all those cores.

  • Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Barely an improvement? Went from an i5 4460 to i7 4790S

    I know it's not an amazing upgrade, but still, I figured my i5 was getting old since 9 months ago (last time I played) it wasn't this laggy (20ish fps), which made me get this i7. Lo and behold as this 2012 game is still making my struggle to even maintain consistent 30fps in small fights such as pvp arena...

    video card is gtx1050, resolution is 1920x1080, ram 8gb.

    Are there any tips to increase my fps? Any config settings? It's kind of absurd tbh.

    You saw barely an improvement because the i5 4460 and i7 4790S are the same (both released for 2014). The marginal improvement you saw was due to slight turbo clock speed difference. Both the i5 and i7 have a base of 3.2 but the i5 turbos to 3.4 and the i7 goes to 4.0 Other than that, the other differences are also marginal for games, 6mb cache vs 8mb, and hyper-threading which doesn't improve fps for 99% of games, and can sometimes cause worse performance (higher temperature and some games randomly using HT instead of cores).

    This is why the unlocked i5s were recommended for gamers over an i7 due to both being quad cores for so long, and when you overclocked an i5 it would generally be equal to the i7, and sometimes better as gamers don't need hyper threading.

    You were better offer buying an unlocked i5 with a better cooler and overclocking it, or saving the money to put toward a new motherboard, ddr4 memory and a more recent i3/i5.

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

    To get the highest fps for GW2, you don't buy older i7s, you just get a newer i7, and if someone can't afford that, and don't need high core counts, an unlocked i3/i5 is the best option. Current i3s are quad cores just as older i7s were, but come with better clock speeds, in additions to all the improvements to single core performance over the last several years. Any testing you've done is flawed, as I have a 6700k and an 8700k next to each other, and even between those two there's enough of a performance difference for GW2 (and every other game), let alone comparing the 8700k to a 950.

    I'm not sure what you've done, but with the 8700k I experience zero stuttering, and I don't drop to 20 fps during metas, or wvw. I even have the game running Supersample, reflections off, character limits Medium, everything maxed, and Vsync off (as Vsync causes random fps issues). I even often times have multiple games running at a time while GW2 is up, and two instances of an Android emulator. FPS isn't just about the specs either, as software can have major impacts. Poor drivers, and no, not just gpu drivers, but anything related to Intel, Microsoft, storage, etc can cause stuttering or performance degradation. Early on I had issues with this desktops for games, lower fps than the 6700k, but I eventually found the cause to be a random Intel driver from a Windows update thanks to it causing a BSoD eventually. Thermals also play a big factor, cpus/gpus need proper cooling and air flow, as well as being cleaned.

    Not everyone suggests spending 3,000$ getting the new i9 and pairing it with a 2080ti, while it gets the best fps possible for gw2, there's severe diminishing returns per dollar spent beyond a certain point, which is why I always suggest the unlocked i3/5 depending on budget and learning to do light overclocking.

  • @Yamazuki.6073 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Barely an improvement? Went from an i5 4460 to i7 4790S

    I know it's not an amazing upgrade, but still, I figured my i5 was getting old since 9 months ago (last time I played) it wasn't this laggy (20ish fps), which made me get this i7. Lo and behold as this 2012 game is still making my struggle to even maintain consistent 30fps in small fights such as pvp arena...

    video card is gtx1050, resolution is 1920x1080, ram 8gb.

    Are there any tips to increase my fps? Any config settings? It's kind of absurd tbh.

    You saw barely an improvement because the i5 4460 and i7 4790S are the same (both released for 2014). The marginal improvement you saw was due to slight turbo clock speed difference. Both the i5 and i7 have a base of 3.2 but the i5 turbos to 3.4 and the i7 goes to 4.0 Other than that, the other differences are also marginal for games, 6mb cache vs 8mb, and hyper-threading which doesn't improve fps for 99% of games, and can sometimes cause worse performance (higher temperature and some games randomly using HT instead of cores).

    This is why the unlocked i5s were recommended for gamers over an i7 due to both being quad cores for so long, and when you overclocked an i5 it would generally be equal to the i7, and sometimes better as gamers don't need hyper threading.

    You were better offer buying an unlocked i5 with a better cooler and overclocking it, or saving the money to put toward a new motherboard, ddr4 memory and a more recent i3/i5.

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

    To get the highest fps for GW2, you don't buy older i7s, you just get a newer i7, and if someone can't afford that, and don't need high core counts, an unlocked i3/i5 is the best option. Current i3s are quad cores just as older i7s were, but come with better clock speeds, in additions to all the improvements to single core performance over the last several years. Any testing you've done is flawed, as I have a 6700k and an 8700k next to each other, and even between those two there's enough of a performance difference for GW2 (and every other game), let alone comparing the 8700k to a 950.

    I'm not sure what you've done, but with the 8700k I experience zero stuttering, and I don't drop to 20 fps during metas, or wvw. I even have the game running Supersample, reflections off, character limits Medium, everything maxed, and Vsync off (as Vsync causes random fps issues). I even often times have multiple games running at a time while GW2 is up, and two instances of an Android emulator. FPS isn't just about the specs either, as software can have major impacts. Poor drivers, and no, not just gpu drivers, but anything related to Intel, Microsoft, storage, etc can cause stuttering or performance degradation. Early on I had issues with this desktops for games, lower fps than the 6700k, but I eventually found the cause to be a random Intel driver from a Windows update thanks to it causing a BSoD eventually. Thermals also play a big factor, cpus/gpus need proper cooling and air flow, as well as being cleaned.

    Not everyone suggests spending 3,000$ getting the new i9 and pairing it with a 2080ti, while it gets the best fps possible for gw2, there's severe diminishing returns per dollar spent beyond a certain point, which is why I always suggest the unlocked i3/5 depending on budget and learning to do light overclocking.

    You're just wrong but. Like you couldn't be more wrong and I don't think there is a way to explain it that would make sense to you :3 neither of my last two pcs had any aircoooled components (I guess some parts on the mobo inherently). There isn't a writeup for gw2 specifically but this is known for dx9 and there are writeups addressing that. the i7 950 is BiS for this game. Hence older Mobos are inherently BiS (can run the i7 950) this is fact for any server based dx9 game.

  • @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

    You state multiple times that DX9 'optimised systems' perform better, and you're even suggesting a 2009 CPU over a new one. Care to give proof of this? Because until then it's just smoke, and plenty of sites show the improvements of today's per-core performance.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    So my upgrade was motherboard (with cpu & memory) only. Went from an i7-3770 to an i7-9700k. Kept the same graphics card (nvidia 1070). Saw considerable increase in performance. Big metas with the 3770 would drop the <5 FPS. With the 9700, still keeping in the 20-30 FPS range - which isn't great, but I'm also playing at 4K resolution (3840x2080) and have graphics turned up to near best quality (there are a few settings which have much bigger impact than others and do little for quality). I mostly do PvE, so prefer the higher settings so things look nicer for the greatest amount of playtime. Open world is typically 60+ FPS
    I'd like to see some actual documentation that a system based on an i7-950 (at this point, a 10 year old CPU) is getting better performance than an i7-9700K, with all other settings being the same.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Still say most problems are based on a Texas comm node.

  • DX9 optimized systems is pure bs, sorry.
    From my own testing:
    Xeon X3450 (basically a i7 860) 4,3Ghz (8GB DDR3 1600) vs i7 6700k 4,6Ghz (16GB DDR4 3000) - both paired with a gtx 1080
    Same settings, 1440p - the Xeon had at least 15 fps lower lows, dropping to the low 20's in WvW blobs.
    Single core performance and high IPC are still key for GW2 and will probably remain until the end of the game.
    It's just how it is.

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:

    @Yamazuki.6073 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Barely an improvement? Went from an i5 4460 to i7 4790S

    I know it's not an amazing upgrade, but still, I figured my i5 was getting old since 9 months ago (last time I played) it wasn't this laggy (20ish fps), which made me get this i7. Lo and behold as this 2012 game is still making my struggle to even maintain consistent 30fps in small fights such as pvp arena...

    video card is gtx1050, resolution is 1920x1080, ram 8gb.

    Are there any tips to increase my fps? Any config settings? It's kind of absurd tbh.

    You saw barely an improvement because the i5 4460 and i7 4790S are the same (both released for 2014). The marginal improvement you saw was due to slight turbo clock speed difference. Both the i5 and i7 have a base of 3.2 but the i5 turbos to 3.4 and the i7 goes to 4.0 Other than that, the other differences are also marginal for games, 6mb cache vs 8mb, and hyper-threading which doesn't improve fps for 99% of games, and can sometimes cause worse performance (higher temperature and some games randomly using HT instead of cores).

    This is why the unlocked i5s were recommended for gamers over an i7 due to both being quad cores for so long, and when you overclocked an i5 it would generally be equal to the i7, and sometimes better as gamers don't need hyper threading.

    You were better offer buying an unlocked i5 with a better cooler and overclocking it, or saving the money to put toward a new motherboard, ddr4 memory and a more recent i3/i5.

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

    To get the highest fps for GW2, you don't buy older i7s, you just get a newer i7, and if someone can't afford that, and don't need high core counts, an unlocked i3/i5 is the best option. Current i3s are quad cores just as older i7s were, but come with better clock speeds, in additions to all the improvements to single core performance over the last several years. Any testing you've done is flawed, as I have a 6700k and an 8700k next to each other, and even between those two there's enough of a performance difference for GW2 (and every other game), let alone comparing the 8700k to a 950.

    I'm not sure what you've done, but with the 8700k I experience zero stuttering, and I don't drop to 20 fps during metas, or wvw. I even have the game running Supersample, reflections off, character limits Medium, everything maxed, and Vsync off (as Vsync causes random fps issues). I even often times have multiple games running at a time while GW2 is up, and two instances of an Android emulator. FPS isn't just about the specs either, as software can have major impacts. Poor drivers, and no, not just gpu drivers, but anything related to Intel, Microsoft, storage, etc can cause stuttering or performance degradation. Early on I had issues with this desktops for games, lower fps than the 6700k, but I eventually found the cause to be a random Intel driver from a Windows update thanks to it causing a BSoD eventually. Thermals also play a big factor, cpus/gpus need proper cooling and air flow, as well as being cleaned.

    Not everyone suggests spending 3,000$ getting the new i9 and pairing it with a 2080ti, while it gets the best fps possible for gw2, there's severe diminishing returns per dollar spent beyond a certain point, which is why I always suggest the unlocked i3/5 depending on budget and learning to do light overclocking.

    You're just wrong but. Like you couldn't be more wrong and I don't think there is a way to explain it that would make sense to you :3 neither of my last two pcs had any aircoooled components (I guess some parts on the mobo inherently). There isn't a writeup for gw2 specifically but this is known for dx9 and there are writeups addressing that. the i7 950 is BiS for this game. Hence older Mobos are inherently BiS (can run the i7 950) this is fact for any server based dx9 game.

    You're trolling/spreading false information.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the single core speed between 4460 to i7 4790S is up to 16% improvement in performance, so with 20fps you are looking at extra 3 fps

    having said that PoF was a major bump in the minimum spec that's required, if you look at your CPU's meters while doing Tequatl during the defend the battery phase as groups of undead spawn, there's a major CPU spike when people doing mount skills like raptor tail spin; that's because the CPU had to do a massive inflow of calculation of the damage and repositioning of the mobs from multiple raptor swipes at once

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  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Isn't there any hotfix, patch or anything? Seriously, this is absolutely pathetic for a game this old.

    I can have stable 30ish fps but as soon as I turn my camera around it dips to 12-15. It's UNPLAYABLE for anything pvp. How about less mount skins and more fixing this engine? Is it even possible at this point?

    Tfw I can run overwatch in 60fps but not this.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Emberstone.2904Emberstone.2904 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    Thanks for your point about the 16 core, the fact remains however (I build pcs as my 9 to 5) that dx9 optimised systems will outperform DX10, 11 and 12 in gw2. I can't explain your outlier except by stating that the new system must be better optimised for DX9. To clarify what you want to maximise what gw2 can do (pet its coding) 4gb vram gpu, dual core i7 950 (best possible cpu, I tested this in metas and Lions Arch), 6-8gb 2400mhz ram (clocking past this wont matter for dx9).

    There is no way an i7-950 will outperform an i7-8700K in GW2. Hell, there's no way it will outperform even a Ryzen 3 1200 in GW2. This is bad advice. Also the i7-950 is a quad core, not a dual core.

    How do I know this? I still own an i7-980X, which is the best gen 1 i7 CPU out there (if you don't count the 990X, which is just a factory overclocked 980X. They're the exact same silicon). I also own an i7-8700K and a Ryzen 5 1600X. I've tested GW2 with all three CPU's and a GTX 1070, all at stock and all overclocked. The R5-1600X was overclocked to 4.0 GHz, the i7-980X to 4.0 GHz, and the i7-8700K to 4.7 GHz (it says 4.7 GHz on the box, but when more than one core is used it'll drop to 4.3 GHz unless you overclock it). The 980X used 1333 MHz DDR3 in triple channel, and the other two used 3200 MHz DDR4 in dual.

    I'll let you guess which CPU ran GW2 the best.

  • Its a game engine issue. Dx 9 is trash. They need to update to dx12

  • OGDeadHead.8326OGDeadHead.8326 Member ✭✭✭

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    You're just wrong but. Like you couldn't be more wrong and I don't think there is a way to explain it that would make sense to you :3 neither of my last two pcs had any aircoooled components (I guess some parts on the mobo inherently). There isn't a writeup for gw2 specifically but this is known for dx9 and there are writeups addressing that. the i7 950 is BiS for this game. Hence older Mobos are inherently BiS (can run the i7 950) this is fact for any server based dx9 game.

    Rofl!

  • Emberstone.2904Emberstone.2904 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2019

    @8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259 said:
    You're just wrong but. Like you couldn't be more wrong and I don't think there is a way to explain it that would make sense to you :3 neither of my last two pcs had any aircoooled components (I guess some parts on the mobo inherently). There isn't a writeup for gw2 specifically but this is known for dx9 and there are writeups addressing that. the i7 950 is BiS for this game. Hence older Mobos are inherently BiS (can run the i7 950) this is fact for any server based dx9 game.

    Oh man I didn't even see this comment before. I should've quoted this one in my post. This is gold (read: blatant misinformation).

    I'll reiterate: there's no way the i7-950 is "BiS" for this game when that generation's absolute best (the i7-980X) barely manages 15-20 FPS during events like AB and Tequatl if you dare to crank the settings up. The i7-950 even runs lower clock speeds out of the box than the 980X, and my 8700K runs around triple the performance of the 980X in GW2.

    Given that I've actually used these processors, I'll list them in order of their performance in GW2 depending on what area you are in, however they will ALL dip harshly during world events or major cities. I ran around an empty map to give you an idea of their performance ceiling, and wrote ballpark full-map event framerates. All of these were done with maxed settings, but high character model limit and high shadows:

    i7-840QM (~30-40 FPS average, ~5-10 FPS events)
    i7-920 (~40-50 FPS average, ~8-15 FPS events)
    i7-980X (~50-60 FPS, ~10-18 FPS events)
    Ryzen 7 2700U (~50-65 FPS, ~15-20 FPS events)
    i7-6700HQ (~60-80 FPS, ~15-20 FPS events)
    Ryzen 5 1600X (~90-150 FPS, ~25-40 FPS events)
    i7-8700K (~140-200 FPS, ~40-60 FPS events)

    This really doesn't have much bearing on the thread at hand, I'll admit, but I really don't like it when people spread misinformation. God forbid the OP takes it to heart and buys an expensive X58 CPU and motherboard only to find out GW2 is going to run worse on them. There is no such thing as "Dx9 optimized hardware." Guild Wars 2 cares about instructions per clock (IPC), and clock speed. A good processor is a good processor as far as most x86-64 applications and games are concerned in this context, and GW2 just wants a good processor. X58 CPU's are no longer good.

    Sorry.

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