Chronomancer Tradeoff Brainstorm

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono. Core will etill be useless

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Situation 1 is the right choice. Core mesmer is one of the few core professions who is trash, so give it a good tool on f5.

Better stop giving ANet kitten suggestions with the remove f4 on chrono. Chrono without chaos is already squishy af.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

Chrono wasn't designed to be a power spec in the first place either. It wasn't designed to be a damage spec.It was clearly designed with power shatter in mind, which was the reigning mesmer meta at the time. So I disagree.

Additionally (above), IMO no one is going to want you in a raid or even a higher fractal if all you can do is remove boons and provide stability. I think the real specializations are things like condi dps, power dps, and support. Tank could also be another specialization except in this game they tend to lump it with support.Additionally, the devs claim they have a weak triangle with 'control'. However, regardless of what the devs claim, 'control' isn't a specialization in this game as it is not always needed and tends to be spread between dps and support instead of being in its own category.

PvP is a little different: potential categories include condi, power, tank, lockdown, burst, and sustain. There could be more I am not thinking of and these categories can kinda blend together. Out of these categories, lockdown is the only one that hasn't seen a specialization in PvP in a long time. I'm not even sure if it should be its own category as like mentioned above with PvE, tends to be spread between different other specializations instead.

[Quadox.7834]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:[...]

That is not easy because chrono does everything better than core, especially burst.

For me:

• Chrono = Power, (nerfed) Support and Phantasms
• Mirage = Condi, Trickster (Evades) and Clones

Two things baseline could be (made) better at than those two which fits the class:

• Boon removal (heavily underutilzed since launch)
• StealthSeems pretty reasonable, I might add utility to that list (before HoT mesmer was mostly known for veil, portal, moa/timewarp in all gamemodes). The trouble is that chrono is still far better at utility because of double-casting and lower cooldowns with alacrity. That's why chrono is so hard to balance. If we wanted core to be more utility-focused then the only way I can think of is moving portal/moa to f5.

Problem: We already got Shattered Concentration and a "free" Stealth-Shatter (F5) might be too much. I still feel that CS replacing Diversion is the most likely scenario. It's not very exciting and won't make baseline Mesmer better at anything. But it's the easy way out for ANet.

@flog.3485 said:Maybe chrono should just loose the ability to use shatters without having any clone up ?

That would be aweful gameplay-wise. However... they could nerf Shatter-damage by 20% :#

Maybe I should just shut my mouth sometimes. :s

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

[Sigmoid.7082]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

That is wholly from a PvE perspective and more specifically instanced content. In other games modes and facets of PvE its far more significant.

Swapping Distortion for Continuum Shift makes a bunch of sense at the class mechanic level that the trade-offs should and are being targeted at. As in you lose the ability to become invulnerable but gain the ability to reset skills/hp etc etc all the stuff CS does. It generally makes the most sense out of anything imho.

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

now we're on the same page however i still have to disagree. that F4 wouldn't be a good trade-off would be because of balancing issues while the trade-offs are more about solving a design issue ( besides it's still very likely that this new core F5 wouldn't be a good trade-off either because of balancing issues.). and even ignoring that it'd still be better to remove something core mesmer already has rather then introduce new mechanics since core mesmer doesn't need new mechanics (like core rev did) and and core still has other potential trade-offs besides taking away a shatter skills.

[flog.3485]

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:[...]

That is not easy because chrono does everything better than core, especially burst.

For me:

• Chrono = Power, (nerfed) Support and Phantasms
• Mirage = Condi, Trickster (Evades) and Clones

Two things baseline could be (made) better at than those two which fits the class:

• Boon removal (heavily underutilzed since launch)
• Stealth

Problem: We already got Shattered Concentration and a "free" Stealth-Shatter (F5) might be too much. I still feel that CS replacing Diversion is the most likely scenario. It's not very exciting and won't make baseline Mesmer better at anything. But it's the easy way out for ANet.

@flog.3485 said:Maybe chrono should just loose the ability to use shatters without having any clone up ?

That would be aweful gameplay-wise. However... they could nerf Shatter-damage by 20% :#

Maybe I should just shut my mouth sometimes. :s

In what way would it be awful to you ? Is it just because you don't like the idea ?I seem to recall you didn't have it baseline before hoT and considering the recent patches, it wouldn't hurt it since they actually buffed the ability for mesmer to get clones, now that you will get the buff from Flow of Time and Seize the Moment even if your clones don't hit the target.Obviously if the devs would ever do it, they would need to take a look at Illusionary Reversion so that you wouldn't be shoehorned into dueling evasion.

[Quadox.7834]

@flog.3485 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:[...]

That is not easy because chrono does everything better than core, especially burst.

For me:

• Chrono = Power, (nerfed) Support and Phantasms
• Mirage = Condi, Trickster (Evades) and Clones

Two things baseline could be (made) better at than those two which fits the class:

• Boon removal (heavily underutilzed since launch)
• Stealth

Problem: We already got Shattered Concentration and a "free" Stealth-Shatter (F5) might be too much. I still feel that CS replacing Diversion is the most likely scenario. It's not very exciting and won't make baseline Mesmer better at anything. But it's the easy way out for ANet.

@flog.3485 said:Maybe chrono should just loose the ability to use shatters without having any clone up ?

That would be aweful gameplay-wise. However... they could nerf Shatter-damage by 20% :#

Maybe I should just shut my mouth sometimes. :s

In what way would it be awful to you ? Is it just because you don't like the idea ?I seem to recall you didn't have it baseline before hoT and considering the recent patches, it wouldn't hurt it since they actually buffed the ability for mesmer to get clones, now that you will get the buff from Flow of Time and Seize the Moment even if your clones don't hit the target.Obviously if the devs would ever do it, they would need to take a look at Illusionary Reversion so that you wouldn't be shoehorned into dueling evasion.

Before hot everyone played IP for this exact reason.

[Quadox.7834]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

now we're on the same page however i still have to disagree. that F4 wouldn't be a good trade-off would be because of balancing issues while the trade-offs are more about solving a design issue ( besides it's still very likely that this new core F5 wouldn't be a good trade-off either because of balancing issues.). and even ignoring that it'd still be better to remove something core mesmer already has rather then introduce new mechanics since core mesmer doesn't need new mechanics (like core rev did) and and core still has other potential trade-offs besides taking away a shatter skills.

Why did rev need new mechanics but not core mes?

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

now we're on the same page however i still have to disagree. that F4 wouldn't be a good trade-off would be because of balancing issues while the trade-offs are more about solving a design issue ( besides it's still very likely that this new core F5 wouldn't be a good trade-off either because of balancing issues.). and even ignoring that it'd still be better to remove something core mesmer already has rather then introduce new mechanics since core mesmer doesn't need new mechanics (like core rev did) and and core still has other potential trade-offs besides taking away a shatter skills.

Why did rev need new mechanics but not core mes?

Exactly this, core mesmer is in my oppinion in worse shape then core rev

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Takashiro.8701" said:If we're talking about replacing a shatter, why Diversion/Distortion and not Cry of Frustration? Since thats the condi shatter and Chrono is the power spec anyway with Mirage being the condi one? Both Diversion and Distortion are a vital part of all Mesmer Specs, having their respective use on all of them but F2 on Chrono is a bit more "just a bonus shatter" if F1 is on CD. If we're wanting to replace any shatters that should be the one imo.

You are right that this point in time F2 is less useful for Chronomancers than F4. But that's not the point. Continuum Split is very powerful and has a high CD. Also when thinking about traits, effects on F4 are more suited for working with CS. Due to this F4 a more reasonable trade-off than F4.

In the end there is no point in implementing a trade off when said trade off is meaningless to begin with.

Yes but replacing f4 is meaningless tradeof since its only nerf to chrono.

Core will still be useless

but that's not the point of these trade-off changes

Its no tradof if you dont lose something meaningful. So what if you dont have distortion. Replacing F1 is more of a tradeof since you actualy want to use f1 as a chrono

now you just lost me.

Replacing f4 doesnt impact the gameplay at all. There is no tradeof since you dpnt give up anything that you actualy use. In pve there is only one place where you actualy use f4 and that is distorting sloths shake. Removing that would again take interesting mechanic from chrono but that is it.

Tgis change doesnt do anything else then removing one skill from the bar. Its not a tradeof but simply taking away a skill.Increasing cds of shatters on chrono is a tradeof since then you are giving sonething up.

New f5 can be a tradeof if it is not situational like distortion is.It needs to be something that you woukd use frequently in my oppinion

now we're on the same page however i still have to disagree. that F4 wouldn't be a good trade-off would be because of balancing issues while the trade-offs are more about solving a design issue ( besides it's still very likely that this new core F5 wouldn't be a good trade-off either because of balancing issues.). and even ignoring that it'd still be better to remove something core mesmer already has rather then introduce new mechanics since core mesmer doesn't need new mechanics (like core rev did) and and core still has other potential trade-offs besides taking away a shatter skills.

Why did rev need new mechanics but not core mes?

Exactly this, core mesmer is in my oppinion in worse shape then core rev

balance wise perhaps but design wise rev was (and arguably still is) underdeveloped because of HoTs rushed development (he was missing a second underwater weapon on release so that should say alot) while mesmer clearly has all the ingredients for a complete class.

what mesmer has is lacking perhaps but with rev there was/is something missing.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

mesmer has plenty of identity, i knew ppl can holda grudge but phantasm nerf QQ in this day and age.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

mesmer has plenty of identity, i knew ppl can holda grudge but phantasm nerf QQ in this day and age.

Dont get me wrong, i love that change. Jut now whatever you take from chrono is no tradeof.

Right now chrono is a pirate that went to city to spend its treasure, guards take some treasure from him as a payment in harbor but he will gladly pay it so he can actualy spend the rest.

Core mesmer is the same pirate that is on a deserted island. It still has the vhole treasure but there is no use for it

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

mesmer has plenty of identity, i knew ppl can holda grudge but phantasm nerf QQ in this day and age.

Dont get me wrong, i love that change. Jut now whatever you take from chrono is no tradeof.

Right now chrono is a pirate that went to city to spend its treasure, guards take some treasure from him as a payment in harbor but he will gladly pay it so he can actualy spend the rest.

Core mesmer is the same pirate that is on a deserted island. It still has the vhole treasure but there is no use for it

i don't get the analogy

[Me Games Ma.8426]

As much as I love(d) speculating and suggesting things like this I must say that these kind of threads are kind of pointless.It does not seem like arenanet reads any of the class forums, not even the threads they start themselves.Guess it will just be: take / leave with what ever they end up making our elite specs.

[derd.6413]

@Me Games Ma.8426 said:As much as I love(d) speculating and suggesting things like this I must say that these kind of threads are kind of pointless.It does not seem like arenanet reads any of the class forums, not even the threads they start themselves.Guess it will just be: take / leave with what ever they end up making our elite specs.

i find these speculation threads amusing even if they are pointless

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

mesmer has plenty of identity, i knew ppl can holda grudge but phantasm nerf QQ in this day and age.

Dont get me wrong, i love that change. Jut now whatever you take from chrono is no tradeof.

Right now chrono is a pirate that went to city to spend its treasure, guards take some treasure from him as a payment in harbor but he will gladly pay it so he can actualy spend the rest.

Core mesmer is the same pirate that is on a deserted island. It still has the vhole treasure but there is no use for it

i don't get the analogy

Core mesmer has enourmous number of powerful skills but they have absolutely 0 synergy or aee extremly situational.Nothing justify taking core mesmer because it doesnt have damage to be a dps, doesnt have support to be dedicated support either. It cannot cover any boon alone and taking him for just those situational skills is not a good idea since other proffesions can usualy manage something similar.

Not to mention you can take those same skills as a pure support build that works without them and even get shorter cooldowns on some or as an dedicated dps build.Mirage and chrono can actualy use those gems in mesmer kit while core mesmer has options to take them but still cannot use them since it has only those skills and nothing else. And that is not near enough

[derd.6413]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I feel like core mesmer was designed with permanent phantasms in mind and now it has nothingWhat about rewerting this change for core only?

no.

Right now core mesmer doesnt work. Period. Please come with idea to give the core class some identity then

mesmer has plenty of identity, i knew ppl can holda grudge but phantasm nerf QQ in this day and age.

Dont get me wrong, i love that change. Jut now whatever you take from chrono is no tradeof.

Right now chrono is a pirate that went to city to spend its treasure, guards take some treasure from him as a payment in harbor but he will gladly pay it so he can actualy spend the rest.

Core mesmer is the same pirate that is on a deserted island. It still has the vhole treasure but there is no use for it

i don't get the analogy

Core mesmer has enourmous number of powerful skills but they have absolutely 0 synergy or aee extremly situational.Nothing justify taking core mesmer because it doesnt have damage to be a dps, doesnt have support to be dedicated support either. It cannot cover any boon alone and taking him for just those situational skills is not a good idea since other proffesions can usualy manage something similar.

Not to mention you can take those same skills as a pure support build that works without them and even get shorter cooldowns on some or as an dedicated dps build.Mirage and chrono can actualy use those gems in mesmer kit while core mesmer has options to take them but still cannot use them since it has only those skills and nothing else. And that is not near enough

those issues don't have anything to do with espec trade-offs tho.