Jump to content
  • Sign Up

PvP Powercreep balance


Recommended Posts

It is commonly agreed by PvP players that damage and healing are too high. To change that PvP balance team would have to decrease damage and healing on basically every PoF/HoT class. That would be a lot of work. And would mean everything would get nerfed and people don't like when their build gets nerfed even if it is for the better balance. So I think much better approach to this is by buffing everyones tankiness. You might think this is just more powercreep, but I don't think it is. For example if someone ability used to hit for 100 damage and players had 1000 HP, and you than buff that skill to 1000 damage and don't change HP that is powercreep. But if you change health pool to 10000 HP nothing hes really changed, there is just another zero to it, it was just inflation not powercreep. Of course GW2 isn't as simple but I think the point still applies when I explain my suggestion:

1. Increase value of vitality in PvP by 25% (10 HP to 12.5 HP per vitality point).Serious build now have from 16k to 27k HP, with this increase that would bring it to 20k to 34k HP. Increasing HP pool means you are less likely to get oneshot and have more time to react to damage and have opportunity for counterplay. But how does it nerfs healing creep? If something used to heal you for 1000 HP and you had 20000 health that is 5% max HP heal. If we now apply vitality buff you have 25k HP and still heal for 1k HP which is 4% of max HP heal. So that skill got nerfed by 1% in relation to you max HP bar without you getting more vitality or decreasing your healing power, when you compare 4% to 5% heal that is effectively 20% nerf to the healing (1/5 = 20%). So change would nerf damage, healing and classes with higher base HP which in my opinion was pretty unfair to being with.

2. Increase value of toughness in PvP by 25% (1 armor to 1.25 armor per point of toughness).Previous point would nerf conditional damage more then it would nerf direct damage. And currently only AT meta build that does condi damage is Scourge. So it is fair to say condi damage is underrepresented as it is. So adding more toughness would additionally nerf direct damage. This would nerf damage as much as you would think since for most of the classes majority of the classes get half the armor from wearing armor rather and not mostly toughness. Let's look at the Demolishers, Leadership meta Revenant build:right now it has 1596 toughness and 2763 armor. If he gets hit by 10M direct damage armor decreases it to 3619 damagewith buff he still has 1596 toughness and 3149,5 armor. With same 10M hit he takes 3175 damage.Which means armor increased by 14% while damage take decreased by 14%. And yeah actual damage before armor applies is massive in this game that's why when you hit a level one rat in level 80 zone you get such massive numbers since they don't have any armor.

3. Revert Scrapper to pre 5th of March balance patch, revert Revenant ventari changes:With these two buffs Scrapper would most definetly be completly broken and could 1vX the whole game, since he doesn't needs healing power to bunker. I've heard that there is completely unkillable Ventari Herald build getting to almost a million healing done each game.

Why I don't think these changes will lead to bunker meta:Let's look at the bunkers we have and how they bunker: Weaver uses combination of healing insane amounts while also having ability to evade a lot of damage, weaver itself is not tanky at all and can be oneshot if you don't just dodge 4Head. Firebrand has a lot of stability to prevent being CCed and most healing in the game and is again easy to oneshot if he forgets to use heal skills. Soulbeast has healing and CC and stunbreak escapes. Only Scrapper which I said needs to be reverted bunkers by actually being tanky with his barriers and since Scrappers run Demolishers amulet these changes would actually just buff him since he never did any damage.

Also Anet please stop buffing unviable builds while there are problematic builds in existance. I know making everything viable is your goal and should be, but first you need to address existing problems and once you do that you have the luxury to try and buff other builds. Otherways you are potentially just creating more problems.

If these changes prove to be disaterious they can easily be reverted by changing 2 numbers in a code. These numbers are just a rough estimation of what would counter healing and power creep enough, it might be better to increase or decrease the numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@McPero.3287 said:lepowercreep propose

Very bad idea, A-net should nerf everything into oblivion in the first place (damage, tankiness, sustain, mobility, condition application/damage/duration/removal, boon application/duration, traits, etc.). Increasing health or tankiness will achieve nothing, because damage is far too inflated and sustain on the other hand as well.Your proposition is a band aid at most, don't forget that elite spec should be an OPTION not mandatory, that means with this inflated health&tankiness you would damage core classes since they're not as powercreeped as elite speces yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@McPero.3287 said:lepowercreep propose

Very bad idea, A-net should nerf everything into oblivion in the first place (damage, tankiness, sustain, mobility, condition application/damage/duration/removal, boon application/duration, traits, etc.). Increasing health or tankiness will achieve nothing, because damage is far too inflated and sustain on the other hand as well.Your proposition is a band aid at most, don't forget that elite spec should be an OPTION not mandatory, that means with this inflated health&tankiness you would damage core classes since they're not as powercreeped as elite speces yet.

If you nerf everything you still have damage and healing power creep, you just deflated the numbers. Congrats.Making everyone tankier won't solve core builds being shit but it won't hurt them either. Core builds are mostly just worse. They are bad now and will be bad if my idea is implemented it's an empty argument.

Of course just doing what I listed won't bring balance but it's a start from where it will be easier to work from. They should probably also increase cooldowns of elite specs for which would bring them on par with core builds in some cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"McPero.3287" said:

If you nerf everything you still have damage and healing power creep, you just deflated the numbers. Congrats.Making everyone tankier won't solve core builds being kitten but it won't hurt them either. Core builds are mostly just worse. They are bad now and will be bad if my idea is implemented it's an empty argument.

Of course just doing what I listed won't bring balance but it's a start from where it will be easier to work from. They should probably also increase cooldowns of elite specs for which would bring them on par with core builds in some cases.

I wrote "nerf everything" for a reason there, everything means literally everything. It'll hurt core a lot more than you think, core speces aren't powercreeped in the same way as elite speces are, they're indeed a bit powered up, but it's not the same level as HoT or PoF creep. Increasing Health and/or Tankiness will only wider the gap between Core and Elite speces and that's a very bad idea. It won't be a start and it'll not be "easier to work from" either, it'll call for more powercreeping core to keep up with e-spec.A-net after like 4 years finally started properly thinking about "what elite spec is", they're making trade-off's, it's still not enough to downgrade e-spec to core level, but it's good move nevertheless. Currently some elite speces are straight upgrades to core and that's a nono, increasing cooldowns is not enough, everything need to be nerfed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"McPero.3287" said:

If you nerf everything you still have damage and healing power creep, you just deflated the numbers. Congrats.Making everyone tankier won't solve core builds being kitten but it won't hurt them either. Core builds are mostly just worse. They are bad now and will be bad if my idea is implemented it's an empty argument.

Of course just doing what I listed won't bring balance but it's a start from where it will be easier to work from. They should probably also increase cooldowns of elite specs for which would bring them on par with core builds in some cases.

I wrote "nerf everything" for a reason there, everything means literally everything. It'll hurt core a lot more than you think, core speces aren't powercreeped in the same way as elite speces are, they're indeed a bit powered up, but it's not the same level as HoT or PoF creep. Increasing Health and/or Tankiness will only wider the gap between Core and Elite speces and that's a very bad idea. It won't be a start and it'll not be "easier to work from" either, it'll call for more powercreeping core to keep up with e-spec.A-net after like 4 years finally started properly thinking about "what elite spec is", they're making trade-off's, it's still not enough to downgrade e-spec to core level, but it's good move nevertheless. Currently some elite speces are straight upgrades to core and that's a nono, increasing cooldowns is not enough, everything need to be nerfed.

Anet has no clue what the f they are doing. Last patch was just buffs and tradeoffs which means they are just powercreeping more specs and you are giving them praise?It's naive and unrealistic to expect from Anet to be able to nerf PoF and HoT, that's like few hundred skills, traits that they would need to look into. And don't tell me core is not powercreeped, core guardian might not be most viable in ATs but it's definitely oneshoting not experienced players in soloq. I am just giving them an lazy and easy half-decent solution. It would literally take like 20 pages Word document of patch notes, since they have to do it all at once if they do it Anet style they will maybe be able to nerf one spec per month, which means you will have some specs completely nerfed for more than a year. You are telling me they need to nerf everything when they can't even revert scrapper. It's like saying we should solve economic inequity by asking rich people to devide their wealth amongst poor, smart one buddy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@McPero.3287 said:Anet has no clue what the f they are doing. Last patch was just buffs and tradeoffs which means they are just powercreeping more specs and you are giving them praise?It's naive and unrealistic to expect from Anet to be able to nerf PoF and HoT, that's like few hundred skills, traits that they would need to look into. And don't tell me core is not powercreeped, core guardian might not be most viable in ATs but it's definitely oneshoting not experienced players in soloq. I am just giving them an lazy and easy half-decent solution. It would literally take like 20 pages Word document of patch notes, since they have to do it all at once if they do it Anet style they will maybe be able to nerf one spec per month, which means you will have some specs completely nerfed for more than a year. You are telling me they need to nerf everything when they can't even revert scrapper. It's like saying we should solve economic inequity by asking rich people to devide their wealth amongst poor, smart one buddy.

That's why I wrote that they've STARTED thinking properly, it's a very long way to make proper trade-offs (like berserker damage shouldn't be changed, or even it should be nerfed while getting that trade-off of not having core bursts). I'm againt any kind of buffs in the current state of the game. I wrote that core speces aren't powercreeped in the same way as elite speces, they are more powerful than pre-HoT indeed, but still not in the same league as e-spec.Your solution will not fix anything at all as I wrote! It's just a band aid that will require in the near future buffing core speces to keep up with broken state of e-spec that will furher buff e-spec as a byproduct of such move (it'll become a race...).I'm fully aware that A-net won't revert any changes (mirage phantasm and scrapper would need to revert for sure) and I'm really sad about that, but what you propose will simply bring chaos and more unbalance to the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Anet has no clue what the f they are doing. Last patch was just buffs and tradeoffs which means they are just powercreeping more specs and you are giving them praise?It's naive and unrealistic to expect from Anet to be able to nerf PoF and HoT, that's like few hundred skills, traits that they would need to look into. And don't tell me core is not powercreeped, core guardian might not be most viable in ATs but it's definitely oneshoting not experienced players in soloq. I am just giving them an lazy and easy half-decent solution. It would literally take like 20 pages Word document of patch notes, since they have to do it all at once if they do it Anet style they will maybe be able to nerf one spec per month, which means you will have some specs completely nerfed for more than a year. You are telling me they need to nerf everything when they can't even revert scrapper. It's like saying we should solve economic inequity by asking rich people to devide their wealth amongst poor, smart one buddy.

That's why I wrote that they've STARTED thinking properly, it's a very long way to make proper trade-offs (like berserker damage shouldn't be changed, or even it should be nerfed while getting that trade-off of not having core bursts). I'm againt any kind of buffs in the current state of the game. I wrote that core speces aren't powercreeped in the same way as elite speces, they are more powerful than pre-HoT indeed, but still not in the same league as e-spec.Your solution will not fix anything at all as I wrote! It's just a band aid that will require in the near future buffing core speces to keep up with broken state of e-spec that will furher buff e-spec as a byproduct of such move (it'll become a race...).I'm fully aware that A-net won't revert any changes (mirage phantasm and scrapper would need to revert for sure) and I'm really sad about that, but what you propose will simply bring chaos and more unbalance to the game.

You clearly struggle to grasp what 'relative' means. What is wrong with buffing core builds once tankiness increases. It just balances everything out. In the end everyone does less damage then now and powercreep is addressed. You saying that my idea won't fix anything doesn't makes it true, you can keep repeating that but of you don't provide any argument to why I can't take you seriously anymore. Only argument you were able to provide is that core builds would get nerfed harder, but if something is not being played it really doesn't matters that balance between core and elite spec worsens, and it is arguable if that is even ture. Core builds are not as fun to play as elite specs in most cases it is also a fact that core builds that currently see play will still see it in same share as now apart from core thief which would need some buffs as it is since last patch. And those that aren't played now nothing changes for them. Majority of the people play elite specs why would you be balancing around the minority?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a curious gw2 player begged us to party with her; she played a bunk guardian and was +1 shotted by warrior gun flame https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gun_Flame

I've come to a state where i do not care about the state of the game.

Perma Stealth, Power-Creep, +1 shotting, Bad Design Stealth, Toxic Design Mesmer Toxic Design-Thief, Having Permanent Everything with bad mechanic designs....... is the solution and will always will

Something must be done!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"McPero.3287" said:And would mean everything would get nerfed and people don't like when their build gets nerfed even if it is for the better balance.

If everything is nerfed equally there won't be a power level difference.The difference in power, or that perceived by the players, is what constitutes issues with balance - that is, "balance as I see it". And unless we are actually playing at the top level, of which most of us probably aren't, the personal bias becomes increasingly apparent the lower down we go.You already have the assumption that the nerfs will be unequal and create a power level difference between the classes/builds and hence affect balance. Which is perhaps implied and with good reference from past changes, but not clarified.

I don't really feel too much about the nerfs; I play regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:fixing power creep with power creep... eh?!

Well, HP pools never go an update since game lunch, while overall damage increased by somewhere between 100-150% across the board.

Having higher HP pools should evens out things a bit. Also, would open up build diversity, since there is a boat load of amulets that no on uses cuz you must invest in HP amulets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@McPero.3287 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Sometimes I get frustrated at ANet's balance changes, but then I see some of the stuff that the community suggests and it doesn't seem so bad in retrospect. =P

If you get frustrated at Anet balance changes only sometimes you got big problems friend.

Now please refrain from dungposting.

God forbid someone make their own opinion on changes instead of following the mob mentality of hating everything ANet does while still clinging to their game.

Oh, and sorry if I offended your ego.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Sometimes I get frustrated at ANet's balance changes, but then I see some of the stuff that the community suggests and it doesn't seem so bad in retrospect. =P

If you get frustrated at Anet balance changes only sometimes you got big problems friend.

Now please refrain from dungposting.

God forbid someone make their own opinion on changes instead of following the mob mentality of hating everything ANet does while still clinging to their game.

Oh, and sorry if I offended your ego.

So you like damage and healing powercreep?

?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...