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Power herald for raids?


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I have full heavy ascended berserker's with scholar runes and of the three heavy professions revenant is the one I enjoy the most (I hate guardian, warrior is okay). Should I be able to find a spot in raids fairly reliably running power herald? I don't really care if I'm the most desirable profession, just as long as I'm 'good enough'. I would run condi renegade as I do have ascended vipers armor with nightmare runes but I don't have trinkets for it and I don't want to farm LW again for ascended trinkets, I hated doing that.

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You're not gonna find urself as top Dps in any encounter but

if u can consistently pull 20-25k dps in any actual raid encounter, pugs wont bat an eye tbh.

That said, as a power Herald u may face some issues with groups assuming bad DPS before giving u a shot. like I said, It's not exactly the best DPS build out there even though it brings some nice stuff to supplement the group (boons, and ferocity aura).

Just make sure ur rotation is as perfect as possible and you should be ok for most groups (provided youre not one of those people does stupid stuff like join as a dps in a group looking for a healer).

Best of luck to you!

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@Ertrak.9506 said:You're not gonna find urself as top Dps in any encounter but

if u can consistently pull 20-25k dps in any actual raid encounter, pugs wont bat an eye tbh.

That said, as a power Herald u may face some issues with groups assuming bad DPS before giving u a shot. like I said, It's not exactly the best DPS build out there even though it brings some nice stuff to supplement the group (boons, and ferocity aura).

Just make sure ur rotation is as perfect as possible and you should be ok for most groups (provided youre not one of those people does stupid stuff like join as a dps in a group looking for a healer).

Best of luck to you!

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

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Herald is absolute slam the keyboard easy to play and it's impossible to die because you'll be autoing so much that you can always pay attention to mechanics (and you also have infuse light). With this said, people like the poster above are completely oblivious to the fact that easy classes make for easy pugs, and will kick you to defend the notion that their optimization is actually worth something.

I recommend just trying to get into pugs and, if they kick you, it wouldn't have been a very fun round anyways. However, I also recommend that you eventually do get the trinkets for a Condi Renegade, not because it's optimal but because it's a blast, a very challenging rotation with lots of utility and a satisfying payoff. It's definitely not a beginner's class too, so if you're starting like it appears, do start on Herald anyways. You can also look for groups in the RiT discord (https://discordapp.com/invite/RQEGHm8), and I assure they'll be much friendlier and willing to let you play as a Herald than most LFG posts (some might still want to persuade you into new classes and, that might not be so bad if they succeed, as it's also fun to play with other styles).

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@"maxwelgm.4315" said:Herald is absolute slam the keyboard easy to play and it's impossible to die because you'll be autoing so much that you can always pay attention to mechanics (and you also have infuse light). With this said, people like the poster above are completely oblivious to the fact that easy classes make for easy pugs, and will kick you to defend the notion that their optimization is actually worth something.

I recommend just trying to get into pugs and, if they kick you, it wouldn't have been a very fun round anyways. However, I also recommend that you eventually do get the trinkets for a Condi Renegade, not because it's optimal but because it's a blast, a very challenging rotation with lots of utility and a satisfying payoff. It's definitely not a beginner's class too, so if you're starting like it appears, do start on Herald anyways. You can also look for groups in the RiT discord (https://discordapp.com/invite/RQEGHm8), and I assure they'll be much friendlier and willing to let you play as a Herald than most LFG posts (some might still want to persuade you into new classes and, that might not be so bad if they succeed, as it's also fun to play with other styles).

I totally was planning to play condi renegade but if I spend one more minute mindlessly farming LW for trinkets I'll uninstall. I guess I could just run some suboptimal trinkets/backpiece and just try to get vipers from raiding.

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i am 1 trick rev, so it means i play raids as condi and power dps. Dps is not the best, but herald has nice things, like alot of cc with staff 5 and herald ultimate. On some encounters like w6b1 i find myself in top 3 dps of my squad, others like kc at the bottom of dps. I do tryhard af while playing raids.

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PvPers will now laugh at this incredulously, but all rev power builds totally lack burst. They reach consistent 30k dps, but without burst. In raids and fractals thats pretty bad since most encounters have short phases in which burst dps absolutely shines.

Also, power rev isnt as easy as everyone makes it out to be. You have to watch your energy, stand correctly to land sword5 properly and always - ALWAYS - watch your autoattacks. One interrupted autoattack chain will set you back by quite a lot since all the dmg is backloaded into last autoattack hit. Everyone saying "rotation is just smashing keys" will barely make it past bannerwarrior and chronos on bosses like MO.

That being said, the raid community is quite relaxed nowadays about dps builds - except on mondays - so as long as you perform okay, you wont get kicked. You might get asked to bring boons though ;) like fury. Put your foot down and say but only for your own group, taking the 10man herald or renegade traits is quite a big dps loss.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:I have full heavy ascended berserker's with scholar runes and of the three heavy professions revenant is the one I enjoy the most (I hate guardian, warrior is okay). Should I be able to find a spot in raids fairly reliably running power herald? I don't really care if I'm the most desirable profession, just as long as I'm 'good enough'. I would run condi renegade as I do have ascended vipers armor with nightmare runes but I don't have trinkets for it and I don't want to farm LW again for ascended trinkets, I hated doing that.

If you are new/newish to raids, you guild has raids for new ppl almost daily, leaded by exp raider ofc. If that is something that might intrest you, pm me :)EU

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@melandru.3876 said:

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

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@Ertrak.9506 said:

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

lol, did i offend you or just an off-day?

tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

might?

  • druid healer
  • bs warrior that can perfecly run phalanx strenght?
  • renegade healer with lasting legacy
  • firebrand healer/quickbrand
  • tempest/weaver (but not 25 stacks, can be in tempest uses heat sync in it's rotation)

fury?

  • weaver
  • druid healer
  • firebrand healer/quickbrand

swiftness?

  • druid healer
  • firebrand healer

protection?

  • firebrand healer
  • druid healer

that are just those that can keep it perma up, we both know that there are alot more sources

so besides a gimped dps (barely above banner support warrior) what does herald bring?not much from the looks

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Im just gonna quote myself and end it there.

@Ertrak.9506 said:

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids,
pug raids
at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and
perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will
fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider
. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

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@Ertrak.9506 said:Im just gonna quote myself and end it there.

@"melandru.3876" said:

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that,
where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

and? chonro+druid is fractal meta and still provides all the boons, not?

i fail to see your point despite you trying so hardbut,glad you are ending early

if your "pug raid" has no druid, no chrono, no renegade and no firebrand, then what odd pug raids do you even join lolscourge healer? ah yes...

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My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

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@Ertrak.9506 said:My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

I can understand this, and I barely graduated from high school.

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@melandru.3876 said:tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

Stability...!

In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

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@narcx.3570 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

Stability...!

In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

stability road?

pretty sure the "power dps herald" uses glint + shiro

so with dwarf the dps will be even lower then the 27k bench dragon+assassin gave , and that all for stability?probably better off taking a dragonhunter then, no?

sounds to me just that the na pug skill-ceiling is even lower then euand,instead of improving the pugs..trying to keep them uninformed and cheese mechanics>

and also wrong on the last part, the worse the group, the worse the herald. your dps comes from autoattacking mostly, that will be amusing once you have no quickness since we are now assuming that any form of support in na pugs, is trash

you are probably confusing it with reaper ;) where the worse the group, the better the reaper since it provides offen sive boons itself

not the way to go

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

Stability...!

In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

stability road?

pretty sure the "power dps herald" uses glint + shiro

so with dwarf the dps will be even lower then the 27k bench dragon+assassin gave , and that all for stability?probably better off taking a dragonhunter then, no?

sounds to me just that the na pug skill-ceiling is even lower then euand,instead of improving the pugs..trying to keep them uninformed and cheese mechanics>

and also wrong on the last part, the worse the group, the worse the herald. your dps comes from autoattacking mostly, that will be amusing once you have no quickness since we are now assuming that any form of support in na pugs, is trash

you are probably confusing it with reaper ;) where the worse the group, the better the reaper since it provides offen sive boons itself

not the way to go

Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

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I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe everyone has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how you wanted to learn the best rotations and make your runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

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@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some
DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe
everyone
has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how
you
wanted to learn the best rotations and make
your
runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some
DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe
everyone
has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how
you
wanted to learn the best rotations and make
your
runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

This is an easy answer of course, but a quite dishonest one at that. Nothing stops me to play exactly the way I want except that I need 9 other players to do so in general. I raid myself, and play meta myself, and know just how easier it would be to play easier classes on things but don't because I have no time to build a group that will accept running easier builds. There is that much more of an incentive to just keep wiping and kicking those who can't play the meta classes instead of making a safe group of people [who know the mechanics and certainly would not fail if only having to care about mechanics] to 1 shot the encounters. A scourge team to kill VG no greens without even barely moving around for example will most times take longer to find 10 people than a meta group where players will keep getting teleported and fighting each other over aegis and pushing seekers. Players follow incentive, both from the game developers but also from the community that builds up around the game modes. It's not an actual thing for you to do everything you want all the time, even inside the game, and even though nothing stops you from leaving the game at any moment or doing another thing that you wanted; you might just not think about it enough to notice that you're doing things you didn't want to here or there (and might even refer to it as "grinding" to express how much you didn't want to do it - but did anyway).

If you really think nothing is stopping any one person to do something in an exclusively multiplayer game, you probably just didn't have any issues with the community aspect yourself. And of course, if we have neither gone through something nor are capable of putting ourselves in another place to imagine what it would be like to go through that, to us it will seem like a non-issue.

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@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some
DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe
everyone
has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how
you
wanted to learn the best rotations and make
your
runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

This is an
easy
answer of course, but a quite dishonest one at that. Nothing stops me to play exactly the way I want
except that I need 9 other players to do so in general
. I raid myself, and play meta myself, and know just how easier it would be to play easier classes on things but don't because I have no time to build a group that will accept running easier builds. There is
that
much more of an incentive to just keep wiping and kicking those who can't play the meta classes instead of making a safe group of people [who know the mechanics and certainly would not fail if only having to care about mechanics] to 1 shot the encounters. A scourge team to kill VG no greens without even barely moving around for example will most times take longer to find 10 people than a meta group where players will keep getting teleported and fighting each other over aegis and pushing seekers. Players follow incentive, both from the game developers but also from the community that builds up around the game modes. It's not an actual thing for you to do everything you want all the time, even inside the game, and even though nothing stops you from leaving the game at any moment or doing another thing that you wanted; you might just not think about it enough to notice that you're doing things you didn't want to here or there (and might even refer to it as "grinding" to express how much you didn't want to do it - but did anyway).

If you really think
nothing
is stopping any one person to do something in an exclusively
multiplayer
game, you probably just didn't have any issues with the community aspect yourself. And of course, if we have neither gone through something nor are capable of putting ourselves in another place to imagine what it would be like to go through that, to us it will seem like a non-issue.

Hence why getting a group of likeminded people are important and starting groups to look for that is whats needed to do so.Asking random people to accept anything becouse you want it to be so is not.

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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

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