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The un-needed nerf of Reaper Touch...


Solomon Darkfury.3729

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@Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:Lost some damage, healing

Gained some consistency and reliability

No change is ever going to be to everyone's liking but at least this is not a straight nerf

You don't need the consistency and reliability (I assume you mean being able to sustain damage pressure) if you are just... good...

And yes it is a straight nerf, they completely gutted the skill and changed it into something totally different.

That's like getting hit with the nerf bat then run over by the nerf dumptruck only to have it unload 50,000 nerf balls to suffocate you with...

That doesn't make much sense honestly ... just because they made the skill something completely different doesn't mean it's a nerf.

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@"Solomon Darkfury.3729" said:Per the update notes-

Reaper's Touch: This skill has been significantly reworked, and it has been renamed Soul Grasp.

Soul Grasp: This skill has two casts. Each cast sends forth a disembodied hand to inflict vulnerability on foes, grant the necromancer life force, and steal health from a foe.

Seriously Devs... what were you thinking? This isn't even a nerf... you GUTTED the skill completely to the point of making it ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

Like, literally NO ONE was complaining about the balance of Reaper Touch. At least none that I saw anywhere. The place where it was most useful was WvW and again, no one was complaining about it.

What was the "logic" behind this unwanted "balancing"?

dev are scared that necro may get out of control that why when they give some buff they do some limitation (some how nerf but it is not a nerf )same goes for Life Rend and Life Slash they didnt make the 180 radius to be a multiplier of 60

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@LucianDK.8615 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:It is actually better now. As a long time necromancer player that skill before today was always soo bad. Literally the only reason people took focus was because of 5 skill.To say a few complaints would be undermining the MANY complaints about it over the years. Just because you liked it does not mean it was good.

Well said, change his always hard to adjust to for many. Made me shift gear from making Verdarach to Binding of Ipos to go with my Astralaria.

Same. Even now I'm reconsidering making Ipos now. I didn't want to make a legendary just for one skill.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As an "hystorical" power necro PvE (Raid/Fractal) user... i have absolutly no clue on what off-hand to use...

Both warhorn and focus now sucks hard, bringing a waste-of-time instead of damage of the field.The patch "buffed" PvP / Condi side of them, ignoring the Power/PvE aspect. I cannot conceive with what criteria certain changes are inserted.

The wh bugs & foci projectiles does NO damage, does not scale, and with cast CD.

My suggestion is just camp shroud/GS as most as you can, and wait for devs to get aware of the situation and find a solution.

The damage nerf was really not necessary nor appreciated.My 2 cents

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@"BaLzA.8902" said:As an "hystorical" power necro PvE (Raid/Fractal) user... i have absolutly no clue on what off-hand to use...

Both warhorn and focus now sucks hard, bringing a waste-of-time instead of damage of the field.The patch "buffed" PvP / Condi side of them, ignoring the Power/PvE aspect. I cannot conceive with what criteria certain changes are inserted.

The wh bugs & foci projectiles does NO damage, does not scale, and with cast CD.

My suggestion is just camp shroud/GS as most as you can, and wait for devs to get aware of the situation and find a solution.

The damage nerf was really not necessary nor appreciated.My 2 cents

It wasn’t really a buff in pvp either. War horn 5 duration is simply too brief, and by the time your in range of the enemy the effect is already half way over.

Focus 4 is also way too slow and unreliable that I don’t even use it. Once it reaches 1200 range travel distance it disappears, which makes it difficult for it to reach its target.

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@Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

@"derd.6413" said:1) did you really need 2 threads about this and 2) ppl were complaining about it because of the same reasons focus 4 on guardian was changed.

ANET needs to stop determining all their "balances" based on a few complaining pvpers... They've done it for 5 years and it craps all over builds in other game modes. Was hoping the changes to the dev team would fix that but I guess not...

The skill was useful against single target. Against multiple targets it sucked.Spinal shivers was the skill no one really complained. Reapers touch was probably the most complained I know about. And not by PvPers only. I play mainly PvE and I am happy about the change.

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I can get over the reaper's touch change. The skill became not completely useless even though I don't like it.

But locust swarm is not even worth the 0,5s cast time. I am serious! It's incredibly bad. Such a weak skill has to have a 15s cooldown. Until this is fixed I will never ever use warhorn again. Even the awful offhand dagger is better now. Dagger/warhorn became the definition of underpowered.

A bandaid fix for reaper's touch and locust swarm would be to make them critable. Both skills would become 100% more viable (still not perfect).

I don't know what they were thinking:

  • BM leechings can't crit, I get that, but dagger2 can and all other weapon leechings should too. Necro slowly becomes the class with the most "can not crit" effects in the game, which is hilarious as we have two (!) grandmaster traits boosting critical damage.
  • And why the hell did they remove that cripple? Spiteful spirit is a must pick now for power reapers as we desperately need movement impairing conditions in shroud. Without the cripple everyone can just walk out of the attack range.
  • While we are talking about attack range: why didn't they made the range of shroud attacks a multiplier of 60? We've still these weird 170 and 220 ranges.
  • Are there two balance teams for necro that are not communicating with each other or what? All I see is more and more inconsistencies.
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@"KrHome.1920" said:

  • And why the hell did they remove that cripple? Spiteful spirit is a must pick now for power reapers as we desperately need movement impairing conditions in shroud. Without the cripple everyone can just walk out of the attack range.

Come on, you know how it work... Anet introduced scourge with shitload of cripple on shade, PvP and WvW players complained that "necromancer" got to much cripple and then months later they look at necromancer's cripple and remove it from locust swarm to appease a community that have long resigned itself to be perma crippled and focused on different, more urgent, balance issues.

Never fix the issue, always fix the consequences! It doesn't matter if it's late.

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:All we need is a 'rework' to offhand dagger. Let's go for the triple. To have both our regulars hit in 1 patch was breathtaking.

Honestly, after the rework to warhorn, I wouldn't ask for a rework for any other necro weapon.That could (actually pretty high chance) make the weapon even worse

Yeah I was just throwing my hands up in frustration with that statement. Agreed they'd make it worse.

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@Engal.6359 said:Wait this was a buff what are you complaining about?

To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.Buff: more reliable (homing) and more lifeforce.Nerf: slower projectile (at least it feels much slower now) less dmg when you hit the skill

Same for warhornBuff: faster ticksNerf: a lot less dmg (no crits), doesn't heal while in shroud

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Engal.6359 said:Wait this was a buff what are you complaining about?

To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.Buff: more reliable (homing) and more lifeforce.Nerf: slower projectile (at least it feels much slower now) less dmg when you hit the skill

Same for warhornBuff: faster ticksNerf: a lot less dmg (no crits), doesn't heal while in shroud

and no longer cripples, which is a huge deal.

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@"Nimon.7840" said:You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.

? "most balanced" scourge is so good it has been a part of every team in pvp since its release. Every good team in rPvP has a discussion at the beginning of the match where they're like, "focus the necro or were screwed". Every game. It dominates any and every team fight. There shouldn't be only one profession that can fill a role, that runs counter to the game's design. Both elite specs for necro are amazing (not buying that reaper shroud is a "trade off" it's just a straight buff)

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@Engal.6359 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.

? "most balanced" scourge is so good it has been a part of every team in pvp since its release. Every good team in rPvP has a discussion at the beginning of the match where they're like, "focus the necro or were screwed". Every game. It dominates any and every team fight. There shouldn't be only one profession that can fill a role, that runs counter to the game's design. Both elite specs for necro are amazing (not buying that reaper shroud is a "trade off" it's just a straight buff)

The only reason scourge is this dominant in PvP is because ANet stack boon hate on the necromancer and barely give any to the other professions while at the same time making boons extremly cheap and easy to get. Scourge was Anet's silly answer to the rampant boon meta that plague PvP and WvW. The fact is that it's a lazy answer that do little to balance the game. People are thus warry of the necromancer but also know very well that a necromancer is easy to kill especially, which in itself isn't an issue.

That said, ANet showed that they are willing to give boon hate tools to other profession (Spellbreaker) and there is historically another profession that also have boon hate tools albeit unexploited by the PvP players (Mesmer).

NB.: Reaper shroud is a tradeoff in thee sense that this shroud have a higher LF decay than death shroud and a loss of range, justifying higher offensive abilities. Isn't it natural for something that cost more to utimately "do" more? Beside, ANet tend to favor melee damages over range damage due to the "higher" risk involved in taking on a foe in melee range. The only real advantage of reaper shroud is that it's mostly less frustrating to use than death shroud due to it's attack speed yet again this come at the expense of both range and LF sustain, which is a fair trade.

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