Dismount before entering a Capture Ring

[HazyDaisy.4107]

It's all part of an agenda.

What anti Warclawers don't understand is its here and it simply can't be removed, it can be nerfed further, but if nerfed too much it will no longer be worth the expansion price to obtain the use of it, unfinancially sound (and kind of pointless after too many nerfs) to offer it for free and no doubt tick off the large amount of people that judging by WCs current present obviously purchased the expansion.

[spectrito.8513]

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:It's all part of an agenda.

What anti Warclawers don't understand is its here and it simply can't be removed, it can be nerfed further, but if nerfed too much it will no longer be worth the expansion price to obtain the use of it, unfinancially sound (and kind of pointless after too many nerfs) to offer it for free and no doubt tick off the large amount of people that judging by WCs current present obviously purchased the expansion.

Yes, Warclaw have more HP than some classes, more stability than a FB, more mobility than a thief and more dodges than everyone else exept for daredevil.

Just put wings and lasers on Warclaw, that would definetely be worth buying PoF, right ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

[Gop.8713]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

[KeyOrion.9506]

The mounts act as Extra HP. You have to dmg the mount in order to force a DISMOUNT, and then you have to dmg the player himself...….whose more than ready to deal with you. A smart player whose mounted will then dismount just before their mounts HP is gone, so that they automatically don't get "knocked down" thereby wasting precious seconds to deal with the attacker. Take it from the army. "No territory has ever been gained without BOOTS on the ground." If your character's FEET arnt' in the ring....why should you be able to cap. Most mounts allow you to quickly escape from a cap zone if you become overwhelmed, and that seems hardly fair. Feet on the ground, or escape. You'll have to choose.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

I don't particularly like that tactic either. I think it provides an unfair advantage to defenders. On the other hand, the golem at least requires supply to build. If the question is how would I feel about seige golems getting the warclaw treatment with regard to camp captures? I'd be just fine with that. You'd still be able to use it as a shelter when the fight isn't going your way. It just wouldn't allow a single player to camp out in a golem, holding off a superior force indefinitely.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I'd be OK with Golems not contesting so long as in that patch they added the ability to seige disable Charr Cars as well.

[reddie.5861]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:You totally don't get this post. Ring size differs yes, but how big can it be that you can't dismount a player to get them off the ring? you want to /logic with me? don't make me laugh. my /logic is, if that guy QQed and get mount unable to contest a ring, then mount by /logic cannot enter the ring when it being contested. /logic.

think on most camps i can hold u long enough for u to get completely wiped off the map when contesting with a mount, so dont shout to hard.

[Gop.8713]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

I don't particularly like that tactic either. I think it provides an unfair advantage to defenders. On the other hand, the golem at least requires supply to build. If the question is how would I feel about seige golems getting the warclaw treatment with regard to camp captures? I'd be just fine with that. You'd still be able to use it as a shelter when the fight isn't going your way. It just wouldn't allow a single player to camp out in a golem, holding off a superior force indefinitely.

I just wish they were consistent. Idc whether you can or can't contest with the mount or golem, but I can't see any gameplay reason they should be treated differently from each other. As you point out the golem does take resources to produce while the mount is free once acquired but the effectiveness of the golem for this purpose so greatly outstrips the mount that the initial cost is meaningless by comparison . . .

[Optimator.3589]

Kill them before they kill you. Problem solved.

[DaFishBob.6518]

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

I don't particularly like that tactic either. I think it provides an unfair advantage to defenders. On the other hand, the golem at least requires supply to build. If the question is how would I feel about seige golems getting the warclaw treatment with regard to camp captures? I'd be just fine with that. You'd still be able to use it as a shelter when the fight isn't going your way. It just wouldn't allow a single player to camp out in a golem, holding off a superior force indefinitely.

I just wish they were consistent. Idc whether you can or can't contest with the mount or golem, but I can't see any gameplay reason they should be treated differently from each other. As you point out the golem does take resources to produce while the mount is free once acquired but the effectiveness of the golem for this purpose so greatly outstrips the mount that the initial cost is meaningless by comparison . . .

Well this is going to be a stretch but I think the golem is treated different because it could actually kill the NPCs to make the capture circle appear. Not the most solid reasoning I suppose but it's a fact that there is no way a mounted player killed all the NPCs while on the mount the entire time like a player in a golem.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

Gankers won't attack you when you're in a golem either. But they didn't whine those down in the early days of the mode and missed that window.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

1) i asked for warclaw to be obtainable without buying expansion .

So, removing the reason to buy the expansion?

But it was ignored, Warclaw was out, all the people start to whine about it until it is what it is today, useless. Instead of balancing the wvw profession skills balance they focus on making Warclaw even more hell to have, lag your game to hell and make it uselessness.

Because Ganker's are mad.

the only solution is to remove it from WvW.

See rebuttal one.

I am still astounded with the history of WvW and XPac features, that after HoT hit, gliders came to WvW (you could tell the original Desert BL was designed with them in mind originally) that after PoF hit everyone should have known WvW was on a timer before they got mounts. I am frankly amazed we got one specific to the mode rather than the normal ones from PvE and a kitten-kitten-ton of lame invisible walls.

[Gop.8713]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It was a dilatory tactic. Like if you're the first one to a camp defense and the circle is up but you don't think you can win pvp bc bad numbers/matchup w/e you could dance around on your mount for a bit to give your allies time to arrive. Or even if no one was coming you could prolly make it until the guards started to respawn . . .

A lot of the time I would just stand in the circle to see what the other ppl would do. That's most of the fun in wvw, seeing how other ppl react to the things you do . . .

Ok, if that worked, fine, the change solves this issue. I encountered such attempts, but as thief with pistols I was always able to dismount these suckers quickly, and I know rangers can do that too. There were solutions to it in the game. Recently we were three people peacefully trying to cap a land mark when an engineer showed up and just stayed in the circle. He was set up to just annoy people because he couldn't do any damage but had unlimited invulnerability, evades, heals and barriers. After a minute or two "fighting" him I just stopped and watched. He then just left us alone, probably getting bored. There will always be ways to play the game in that manner, and most of the time there are ingame solutions. I had none for the engi though, but Anet doesn't attempt to change those endless invulnerability states. Just two words: Dolyak Stance.

I just don't see that a change of game mechanics was the best way to go.

The difference between the mount scenario and the tanky engineer is that the latter is forced to actually engage. As the change itself indicates, it was not intended that the warclaw be used to indefinitely delay objective captures without actually fighting for them. Of course the dismounted player can still win the fight and hold the objective, but the point is that it results in a fight. That's clearly the intent for WvW (which really should not be surprising as it is a PvP game mode!).

Now distinguish contesting on the mount vs contesting with a golem . . .

Gankers won't attack you when you're in a golem either. But they didn't whine those down in the early days of the mode and missed that window.

I'm not really sure how I can see this as a ganking issue. Someone interested in cheesy kills at a camp isn't going to wait for you to kill all the npcs, get ooc and remount before attacking you anyway . . .

[HazyDaisy.4107]

All types of open field seige should be done away with. That means no more spawn camping with seige, roamer camp built attack golem armies, defense golems and other defensive camp seige, zerg acs and flame rams, tombstones. Forget contest, just do away with the ability to deploy any type of seige anywhere other than within 600 units of a walled structure and everyone will be miserable!

[Faaris.8013]

I noticed yesterday that if someone else fought and started capturing, and you arrive with your mount and not help speeding up the capping because you stay mounted, you still get the reward in gold.