Warhorn 5 and Focus 4... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warhorn 5 and Focus 4...

Am I the only one under the impression that both reworked skill are … well … VERY bad?
Lack of critical hits on both sides, very little heal, and does not seem to proc blood magic traits…
Oh boy…

Comments

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am treating focus 4 as a source of burst LF, useful if you have to range for any reason. Lifesteal damage does not crit. But you get about 800hp from spending both charges in 3s. But yes, warhorn5 is much more kitten now

  • I’m not a fan of the changes either...they aren’t bad changes, but they aren’t that good either.

    Focus 4 feels less rewarding, it’s still some sort of missle and it seems to not work as often as I like to think it is.

    War horn 5....I like the lifesteal...but I’m not a fan of the duration decrease because it means I have to use it in the midst of the fight rather than precasting it. As a reaper, positioning is everything, and to position yourself in the fight to gain those benefits...

    I won’t complain...just feels like nothin has really changed...although I am enjoying soul Eater very much, and using it with Blood magic is really fun.

  • Androx.8572Androx.8572 Member ✭✭

    Ive done some good combos with locust swarm so far , about the focus... mmm didnt like it at all.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Focus 4 is actually better than you think because even though it lost damage as life steal, it also now go through blocks as well. I think it needs of a projectile speed increase and is a solid pvp weapon.

    Warhorn 5 is bad, the issue with it in PvP mainly because you used it before 1 to clear blinds, 2 to generate a bit of LF, 3 movement speed. I think they lowered the duration but increased the tick in order trying to concentrate the damage but doesn't realize life siphon scale extremely poorly in terms of damage. I am ok with weapons not used in PvE but the issue right now is that neither offhands are used in PvE in terms of damage. So if focus is the PvP weapon, warhorn can be the pve weapon. Changing it to normal damage is probably the simplest way or completely rework the life siphon damage formula but that's probably a bigger pain than a number type change.

  • @Warscythes.9307 said:
    Focus 4 is actually better than you think because even though it lost damage as life steal, it also now go through blocks as well. I think it needs of a projectile speed increase and is a solid pvp weapon.

    Warhorn 5 is bad, the issue with it in PvP mainly because you used it before 1 to clear blinds, 2 to generate a bit of LF, 3 movement speed. I think they lowered the duration but increased the tick in order trying to concentrate the damage but doesn't realize life siphon scale extremely poorly in terms of damage. I am ok with weapons not used in PvE but the issue right now is that neither offhands are used in PvE in terms of damage. So if focus is the PvP weapon, warhorn can be the pve weapon. Changing it to normal damage is probably the simplest way or completely rework the life siphon damage formula but that's probably a bigger pain than a number type change.

    Ya I think if they just changed the duration back to what it was, it would be fine, even with the radius decrease.

    If they don’t want to give us back the duration at least give it a much larger radius (240-360)

    I haven’t really tested the lifebsiphon in shroud, but word on the street says it doesn’t siphon health in shroud....bummer

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    Focus 4 is actually better than you think because even though it lost damage as life steal, it also now go through blocks as well. I think it needs of a projectile speed increase and is a solid pvp weapon.

    Warhorn 5 is bad, the issue with it in PvP mainly because you used it before 1 to clear blinds, 2 to generate a bit of LF, 3 movement speed. I think they lowered the duration but increased the tick in order trying to concentrate the damage but doesn't realize life siphon scale extremely poorly in terms of damage. I am ok with weapons not used in PvE but the issue right now is that neither offhands are used in PvE in terms of damage. So if focus is the PvP weapon, warhorn can be the pve weapon. Changing it to normal damage is probably the simplest way or completely rework the life siphon damage formula but that's probably a bigger pain than a number type change.

    Ya I think if they just changed the duration back to what it was, it would be fine, even with the radius decrease.

    If they don’t want to give us back the duration at least give it a much larger radius (240-360)

    I haven’t really tested the lifebsiphon in shroud, but word on the street says it doesn’t siphon health in shroud....bummer

    The siphon's not going to matter much. Is around 390 over the entire duration for 1 person. If you land all 10 ticks on 5 people for it to matter then is going to be a miracle not to mention focus is better at life force gen too. I think focus is a fine pvp weapon with some projectile speed, going through blocks is pretty nice. Warhorn right now is mostly used for breakbar and swiftness only. If it did normal scaling damage then it would be fine because sometimes it was difficult before to land all 10 hits in over 10 seconds in PvE. So the shorter duration is actually fine in my book, it just needs to do damage.

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    Focus 4 is actually better than you think because even though it lost damage as life steal, it also now go through blocks as well. I think it needs of a projectile speed increase and is a solid pvp weapon.

    I don't know where you got that focus 4 goes through block, because it does not. I've test it vs shield block of warrior and engineer (which for some reason does not reflect), on guardian shield 5 it gets blocked just like a projectile. Need to test it vs fb anti projectile dome and scrapper one, I cannot comment on those 2 if goes through or not.

    Yes the rework are underwhelming to say the least.
    This was a good occasion to revamp life steal, but Anet failed at it. Life steal on focus 4 is too low and also the projectile is too slow. The lf gain is decent.
    Also we're going to talk about, how it the lamest rework ever? They took staff auto, scale it up a bit by dimension and call it day, like really?
    War horn 5 lost cripple for no reason, the single target life siphon is just bad mediocre on multiple(because let's be honest if you are vs 5 target warhorn won't help you stay alive at all), you have to trait for banshee wail to have a mediocre sustain out of it.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    Focus 4 is actually better than you think because even though it lost damage as life steal, it also now go through blocks as well. I think it needs of a projectile speed increase and is a solid pvp weapon.

    I don't know where you got that focus 4 goes through block, because it does not. I've test it vs shield block of warrior and engineer (which for some reason does not reflect), on guardian shield 5 it gets blocked just like a projectile. Need to test it vs fb anti projectile dome and scrapper one, I cannot comment on those 2 if goes through or not.

    Yes the rework are underwhelming to say the least.
    This was a good occasion to revamp life steal, but Anet failed at it. Life steal on focus 4 is too low and also the projectile is too slow. The lf gain is decent.
    Also we're going to talk about, how it the lamest rework ever? They took staff auto, scale it up a bit by dimension and call it day, like really?
    War horn 5 lost cripple for no reason, the single target life siphon is just bad mediocre on multiple(because let's be honest if you are vs 5 target warhorn won't help you stay alive at all), you have to trait for banshee wail to have a mediocre sustain out of it.

    Nope you are right, I was told that it did went through so I believed it.

    Regardless after playing it in pvp I think is a solid skill still, it just need a projectile increase. People already used to take focus just because of 5 and 4 was mostly a filler, this now it actually provide solid LF regen. It just needs to actually land.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    New Focus 4 I like. Warhorn 5, not so much vs the old version. That skills's usefulness always lay in its duration, not the damage.

    Would like Warhorn 4 to be a small-radius ring instead of a cone while they're at it.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    I would consider going Scepter/Focus for Condi Reaper because LF regen is nice.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD -> TC -> Mag -> GOM -> AR -> JQ

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    I would consider going Scepter/Focus for Condi Reaper because LF regen is nice.

    Agree - focus LF gen is good for condi builds, now.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    The biggest deal about Warhorn 5 for PvP was it's ability to trigger Blinds on you and Aegis on enemies, preventing you from wasting your slow big hits on Reaper on that instead.
    With half the duration it feels pretty limp over all in terms of being able to precast it and how long it does that primary job, making it just worse than before.
    It being life Siphon is also just a damage nerf, especially when using it just before going into Shroud for the increased crit chance and Ferocity, without it being any sort of sustain buff, considering it heals for like 30 HP a tick. If that was 10 times as high, maybe I could see the point.

    Focus on the other hand still feels pretty clunky and slow considering it's all single target.
    Just like GS 5, I wish they would speed up Focus 4 by a lot (or not make it a projectile of sorts at all), and have a look at cast time and aftercast of both Focus 4 and 5.

    Necro offhands, aside from Torch on Scourge, seem just very unappealing altogether.
    Neither Focus nor Warhorn feel like they have a proper identity now, either for PvE nor PvP.
    At this point I'm actually considering just running Dagger offhand for PvP, for some AoE Weakness, corrupt and some condi clear.
    Although the unblockable daze on Warhorn to break out Warriors of their Shield 5 and such is just so important, so idk, then again, I'm already running Nothing can Save you.
    Just all seems like a choice between a whole lot of meh.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What offhand is people leaning to for pve reapers?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Focus seems the natural choice ... you got the chill on 5 that works with reaper traits. Focus 4 is just a better version of WH5 ... no contest IMO.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is technically inacurate. You won't use focus 5 in PvE even for the chill because it's cast time is way to long for PvE. Now, you'll take focus if your party is solid CC wise (capitalizing on building life force) and warhorn if your party is low on CC.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well focus 5 would mainly be used in fractals for boonstripping.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    All the point of warhorn 5 was ... the duration. Ok you get life steal, but you're out of fight, you cast #5 and it's already gone when melee.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a note the trait does increase the healing.

    • No Trait: 37+8% HP . Total 370+80% HP per target at max impacts.
    • With Trait: 55+12% HP. Total 825+180%HP per target at max impacts.

    Probably why the base values are so low.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But you give up an awful lot by going into the blood line.

  • Emapudapus.1307Emapudapus.1307 Member ✭✭✭

    For me focus seems fine, needs only some extra tuning, like faster speed, better lifesteal. What bothers me the most is warhorn loosing all the synergies it had with its design or traits. Speed and cripple made sense for melee weapon, you get closer sooner and for enemies its harder to escape (where longer duration and bigger aoe also made more sense). And if we take atm siphon lifesteal heal not working in shroud is bug, it still looses all other blood traitline siphons (wouldnt mind if new w5 siphon would be only extra, because the healing is similar). Also since its life steal dmg it cant crit and if you also take curses you dont get any bleeds from crit. And less bleeds means its harder to trigger minor healing signet trait + less dmg. Seems like it was reworked by someone who never seriously played necromancer.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    But you give up an awful lot by going into the blood line.

    As you should do if you're looking for the sustain the line provides. Opportunity cost.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    The changes to focus seem ok but not a buff. The regen was something I used to ignore because I sometimes did not need it or was going into shroud.

    Focus still feels like an open world PvE weapon so no surprises there but the increase in LF makes it attractive for scepter builds. The loss of the bouncing attack also helps align the weapon for scepter or axe but I did use the cleave aspect of Reaper's Touch in open world to enter combat with a crowd while trying to close the gap.

    The change does not seem too advantageous for competitive play, though.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warhorn 5 no longer procs things like

    • FULL COUNTER
    • SHOCKING AURA
    • FOST AURA
      etc....

    So it was a trade off to be honest. Certain classes could easily abuse warhorn 5.
    Focus for is down right better in terms of utility and there is no arguing that the life force gain and reworked skill that is promised to work consistently is far nicer than a skill that could do more damage but was unstable / clunky at anything over 400 range when the skill allows for 1200 range.

  • Jethro.9376Jethro.9376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    Pistol or mace as new off hand incoming?

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jethro.9376 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    Pistol or mace as new off hand incoming?

    No please don't say that. We're the last profession to not have sword mainhand.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What role would a sword main hand really fill that axe doesnt?

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    What role would a sword main hand really fill that axe doesnt?

    melee condi / dualist weapon.
    None of the scholar professions use any of the bows though so one of them is going to get it.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But isnt that what dagger mainhand does? working with bleed.
    And new especs aint happening anytime soon with no expacks on the horizon.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    But isnt that what dagger mainhand does? working with bleed.
    And new especs aint happening anytime soon with no expacks on the horizon.

    You need to learn to quote people if you are going to reply to their post for sure..

    Necro has no melee condi weapon. Out of the mainhands that are left we have mace,sword and pistol. Mace and sword are the best two to fit that and pistol would be crowded out/overlap with sceptre or axe.

    We got an offhand last time and the only offhand left is shield. Unless the class mechanic change is drastic it wouldnt really promote a playstyle that isnt covered by the other specs and having the same mainhand options is getting stale.

    Of the two handers left hammer could either have overlap with GS or come like a copy of Rev hammer which would make it feel not different or unoriginal. The rest are all ranged options and unless one has 1500 range it would look to compete with axe/sceptre plus range power pressure is semi covered by core shroud but who knows because none of the scholar professions wield any bow or rifle.

    For me the most likely weapons is either mace/sword or one of the bows. More particularly mace because:

    • Literally every other class can use sword one way or another ( could be a case for sword though )
    • Bows and rifle only have 2 main users + 1 elite spec user
    • Mace has 3 main users and has been given to no elite spec thus far
    • Ele just got sword and Mesmer axe. Both only have one long ranged option with ele being aoe and mesmer being single target so bows/rifle could cover this.

    Could go on but no real need to.

    Also with the change in delivery and direction we don't know if specs will always remain tied to expacs or be delivered in other ways.

    Anyways this is incredibly off topic so I will stop here.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Jethro.9376 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    Pistol or mace as new off hand incoming?

    No please don't say that. We're the last profession to not have sword mainhand.

    Watch Necro get a focus main hand, next. XD

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Jethro.9376 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems like the two condi offhands (torch and dagger) are now also the highest power damage offhands. Rather humourous if you ask me.

    Pistol or mace as new off hand incoming?

    No please don't say that. We're the last profession to not have sword mainhand.

    Watch Necro get a focus main hand, next. XD

    If that happens, I'll hunt down any Anet dev I find and condemn them with my dual Binding of Ipos.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • killfil.3472killfil.3472 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    Personally I'd rather they do the following changes ;

    Increase healing values from "locust swarm" by 400% (so it heals for around 170 per enemy "struck") and make it capable of triggering blood magic lifesteal.
    Make "soul grasp" capable of critical hits and heal correspondent to 50% of the damage dealt.
    And then maybe yeet something in there.

    Edit : spelling is hard.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @killfil.3472 said:
    Increase healing values from "locust swarm" by 400% (so it heals for around 170 per enemy "struck") and make it capable of triggering blood magic lifesteal.

    It does no strike damage which has benefits of it's own. If it could proc other life steals then certain values would have to be adjusted around that.

    Secondly if you increase the base heal the healing power contribution would have to be almost 0%. At the moment the way it's valued it incentives taking it trait, much like most weapons and before the trait was never a consideration, as well a building HP, much like many other things in blood magic. It's some of the reason I feel it's better designed now.

    Anet will also consider top end values. 1700/3825 + 15/22.5% LF ~ 8500/19125 + 75/112.5% LF with no stat investment at all is pretty high. Heck even at 2 targets you'd be looking at 3400/7650 + 30/45% LF. It's not a small amount. Combine that with other sources of life steal and healing it soon adds up pretty quickly.

  • Personally I hate the new change to focus 4. I kept axe/focus as an offhand option to do damage at range, and focus 4 was one of the big sources of that damage. Now it is just plain feeble.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    I have been experimenting with Warhorn traited with Banchee wail and Sanctuary Runes. (Also these runes are working super good with the new Soul eater)

    Together this increases the locust swam buff to 8 sec duration which feels great with the interval speed of 0,5 sec = 16 ticks vs 10 and additionally this set up grants 25 secs speed buff - which makes it perma speed! (If cast on every CD of 24 sec)

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    For PvP its a straight nerf for WH5 and focus was always to slow and unreliable.

  • killfil.3472killfil.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    Spear's "Deadly Feast" appears to be more efficient than "Locust Swarm", almost offering double the healing.

    Vampiric shrimps.

    SHRIMPS.

  • As a somewhat new player and 100% casual on top of that, I also don't like these changes. I'm not gonna repeat other complaints about these skills here, I agree with most of them.

    I play base necro as support (don't have PoF and don't like reaper) and it strikes me that despite having interesting support trait line (blood), necromancer has no real support weapons. Support as in, granting buffs to/healing other players. There is staff (not a great option) and there was focus - which is gone now - both granting regeneration. I know, focus wasn't great as support (or any weapon really), but it was support option nevertheless, and now it's gone. Instead, both focus and warhorn were given self-healing components, which I don't need personally, and they're weak compared to my other leech/healing options. I'd rather have real support weapon. Maybe if dagger 2 was also healing allies, or if overflow from my leech effects when I'm at full health would heal others... but now... just meh...

    I'm also disappointed about visual aspect of these changes. I really like the locust effect of warhorn 5, and lowering it's duration means I can see it less often. But focus 4 is even worse: it had it's cool, unique projectile, which got replaced by generic hand from staff auto attack. I mean, why? It's not just visual issue, either: old focus 4 would always travel it's full distance if you didn't have a target selected; the new one, in case without target, will most likely detonate at your feet. It may very well be because I don't fully understand how projectiles work in this game, but imho it's lowering quality-of-life change.

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