A roadmap to more player expression in gw2 combat

[Swagg.9236]

• Guardian, Thief, Elementalist and Warrior moved into the “Middle tier” health pool.
• Dodges now cost 25 endurance.
• The Physical Supremacy trait no longer increases a player's endurance pool.
• In the presence of higher global HP pools and more dodging, weapon bar CDs should be lowered and the ammo system should be made more prevalent across all weapon bars.
• No weapon bar should be without at least one, non-target-dependent movement option (i.e. Savage Leap, Infiltrator's Arrow, Burning Retreat, etc) with a middling-to-low cooldown (and ideally an ammo charge system).
• If it deals damage, it can't grant an evade period or reflect projectiles.
• If it tracks a target (or generally uses the targeting system to aim) and inflicts a hard stun, it can't deal baseline damage (unless there is a conditional trigger to the hard stun such as being at a close range despite the weapon bar being ranged-centric).
• If it's an auto-attack, it can't grant boons or inflict conditions (auto-attacks can still have conditional triggers for bonus effects).
• If it grants stability, it can't be a trait, and its effect has to be limited to a fixed area or a conditional situation/action.
• If it stuns or dazes, it can do so for no longer than 1½s. If it stuns or dazes instantly, it can do so for no longer than ½s.
• If it has a cast-time beneath 1 second, it can't have a damage modifier above (1.0).
• If it hits multiple times, it can't follow a target automatically (i.e. Poison Volley, Lava Font, Scorched Earth, etc).
• If it blocks attacks for a protracted period of time (i.e. Shield Stance), it needs a limit for the number of attacks that it can block (i.e. Arcane Shield).
• If it's a “Healing Skill,” then it cures 5 conditions on the user.
• Less daze and hard stuns across all weapon sets and utility options. Replace them with more raw movement.
• Re-balance or re-work “elite skills” such that they can be folded into the “utility skill pool.” Replace the elite skill slot with a “stun-break slot.” For each class, fill the stun-break slot with a small pool of movement-based or generally useful skills (i.e. Blink, Lighting Flash, Shadowstep, “Shake It Off!” etc), and make it so that all of them break stun on use (if they already do not do so). If a player does not break stun with a skill from the stun-break slot, then have the skill recharge 50% faster. All stun-break slot skills would be on a 2-ammo count total with a 20-30s recharge per count. Remove all arbitrary stun-breaks from current utility skills not featured in the stun-break slot.
• Find a way to make any hard CC inflict a fixed amount of breakbar damage and give that effect an internal CD per player (something like any control effect vs a breakbar inflicts 500 points of breakbar damage on a 3s CD).

Basically, current GW2 PvP combat revolves around hard counters and blowing a lot of opening CDs on a target in order to either kill them outright or get them to run away. Most of the best CDs cycle over into fully-charged between every fight, and most fights are often decided once one party's CDs run dry. With more baseline defenses and movement options available to all classes (along with less skills which do too much with a single button), we would probably see a lot more fights continue despite players not necessarily having all of their "I win" buttons off cooldown. This means that players would need to think about how to continue fighting and exploit certain advantages with just baseline weapon abilities and movement.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

Why do we want even more dodges?

[Swagg.9236]

@"McPero.3287" said:Why do we want even more dodges?

We don't really have any dodges at the moment. Nobody consistently survives GW2 PvP combat by just using dodges because two isn't enough within the current meta. What you're thinking of is all of those passive evasion and block windows that get slapped onto attacking skills. Teleports, blocks and stability are also in the same vein. Most people survive combat with passive traits, instantaneous movement or tack-on effects which all respectively insulate players from risk. Active dodging is a miniscule part of meta PvP survival, and given how it has no universal impact despite being a universal mechanic, it therefore contributes to the problem that we have now: PvP survival and effectiveness is entirely arbitrary based on what kind of buffs that random builds get. If there was a more universal access to dodging and movement, then every player would have a better means to re-position and fight back without relying on some random expac build or sudden buff to make them "good." We get more basic dodges, and then we just remove all of the arbitrary "evade/block/invuln" additions to all of the attack skills which have them.

[Euthymias.7984]

I cant imagine the amount of reworks across specializations, traits, and weapons/skills that this would require, and a lot of it sounds like homogenized gameplay.This doesnt seem feasible within reason.

[Swagg.9236]

@Euthymias.7984 said:I cant imagine the amount of reworks across specializations, traits, and weapons/skills that this would require, and a lot of it sounds like homogenized gameplay.This doesnt seem feasible within reason.

How much more homogenized can GW2 get beyond its current meta? How much different is a Guardian's opening from a Revenant or from a Thief or even a Soulbeast? What build in GW2 PvP doesn't blow a huge burst while mostly invulnerable or at least cloaked in stability? Every build is mostly just the same playstyle in a different color. And if GW2 can't allow a single (or small handful) of universal mechanic(s) to support overall gameplay across multiple classes, then what does that say about GW2's utter superficiality as a game? It's either the game re-focuses on general mechanics as a support system for making big plays, or you continue down a path of random builds getting into the meta based on arbitrary patch changes.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Swagg.9236 said:

• If it's an auto-attack, it can't grant boons or inflict conditions (auto-attacks can still have conditional triggers for bonus effects).

What? Like why? This is so inane.

[Ralkuth.1456]

So every class will be the same under your suggestion just with different colour flashes? You are giving me the twitches from when I finished Mass Effect 3 and saw the endings.

! Choose between red, blue or green explosions!! Either way you shower bits of Shepard all over the galaxy.! You have got to be kidding me.

I think with this movement change if classes retain even a speck of their features, Necros would gain an extreme amount of survivability.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Idunno yo, I feel like you could just say tl;dr buff thief, buff core guard and accomplish the same thing without taking big risks implementing some of these things.

Like... a lot of these just aren't reasonable. I feel like the only thing they really express is a personal bias towards certain classes.

@Swagg.9236 said:

• Guardian, Thief, Elementalist and Warrior moved into the “Middle tier” health pool.

Guardian, thief, warrior and ele have health pools balanced around a design philosophy and it's always worked really. That goes for every class, not just these four. Thief is meant to be hard to hit. Warrior is in your face melee. Guardian and Ele both have skills to keep themselves and others topped off despite having the lowest base healthpools for their armor class.

• Dodges now cost 25 endurance.

This could be way too easily exploited with things like Warrior, Mirage, and Thief. Like, I play warrior. Stength spellbreaker has crazy endurance regen, and their dodges can hit up to 3k as it has an unblockable attack tied to them through traits.

This could easily contradict this:

• If it deals damage, it can't grant an evade period or reflect projectiles.

As the dodge does damage and acts and an evade.

• If it tracks a target (or generally uses the targeting system to aim) and inflicts a hard stun, it can't deal baseline damage (unless there is a conditional trigger to the hard stun such as being at a close range despite the weapon bar being ranged-centric).

I feel like this also wouldn't make sense, and i'll again use warrior as the example. If I hurl a massive freaking boulder at someone while in rampage, which does what you describe; I guess that should only stun and do no damage? Big rock hurt. At least me tink it does.

• If it's an auto-attack, it can't grant boons or inflict conditions (auto-attacks can still have conditional triggers for bonus effects).
• If it's a “Healing Skill,” then it cures 5 conditions on the user.

This is outright unfair to anyone playing condi mirage. Condi mirage has seen enough nerfs.

• If it stuns or dazes, it can do so for no longer than 1½s. If it stuns or dazes instantly, it can do so for no longer than ½s.
• Less daze and hard stuns across all weapon sets and utility options. Replace them with more raw movement.
• Re-balance or re-work “elite skills” such that they can be folded into the “utility skill pool.” Replace the elite skill slot with a “stun-break slot.” For each class, fill the stun-break slot with a small pool of movement-based or generally useful skills (i.e. Blink, Lighting Flash, Shadowstep, “Shake It Off!” etc), and make it so that all of them break stun on use (if they already do not do so). If a player does not break stun with a skill from the stun-break slot, then have the skill recharge 50% faster. All stun-break slot skills would be on a 2-ammo count total with a 20-30s recharge per count. Remove all arbitrary stun-breaks from current utility skills not featured in the stun-break slot.
• Find a way to make any hard CC inflict a fixed amount of breakbar damage and give that effect an internal CD per player (something like any control effect vs a breakbar inflicts 500 points of breakbar damage on a 3s CD).

I don't think this makes much sense either, putting in more stunbreaks and the hurdle of a breakbar while removing a lot of CC from the game. If you don't like stability, this just doesn't make sense. Because this just makes stability all the more easier and more rewarding to stack. If nothing ever gets CC'd, nothing ever really dies. This favors bunker builds like scrappers/firebrands way too much.

• If it hits multiple times, it can't follow a target automatically (i.e. Poison Volley, Lava Font, Scorched Earth, etc).

Idunno what you mean by this. Poison volley is the only one of those that really follows a target. Lava font and scorched earth are stationary AOEs. I don't know how skills like Unrelenting Assault would even function then, because it hits multiple times and follows targets automatically unless they stealth.

• If it blocks attacks for a protracted period of time (i.e. Shield Stance), it needs a limit for the number of attacks that it can block (i.e. Arcane Shield).

This is what unblockable attacks exist for, some of which can even knock a warrior out of shield stance. Shield stance I think should be the staple for blocks, because it's purely defensive, even with the trait that makes blocks reflect, the warrior still isn't actively attacking anything while blocking, it's just a straight up shield block.

Just my two cents. Like I say, your idea of expression seems a little bit biased towards thieves and guardians. If I didn't specifically address something it's because I agreed with you, or didn't know what to say.

[Erzian.5218]

Bad suggestions imo as they would homogenize the classes, thus reduce class identity and variety in gameplay. If I want to play a game where every class feels and is played the same way, I go back to eso (which is a good game but all classes play the same, which makes it look like they only have classes in order to have balance issues).

[OneOfTheAvengers.3478]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Why do we want even more dodges?Nobody consistently survives GW2 PvP combat by just using dodges because two isn't enough within the current meta.

You're what tier again? I can tell its low by the absolutes in your statement. You havent even ventured high enough to taste what originality in this game feels like. Don't speak for every player, speak for yourself.

[Exedore.6320]

OP makes a few good points, but is largely misguided.

The main useful takeaway is that skills and traits need some kind of budget or valuation system. More damage means a longer cast time or longer cooldown. Skills which CC or provide a lot of utility shouldn't have high damage (unless they have a substantial cast time), etc. That was the philosophy for vanilla when PvP was far more enjoyable.

[DaShi.1368]

I don't think rangers need to be buffed anymore. They are already the most dominate class.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I agree with some things: cc rework, no more multi effect skills, low cast time low damage, more movement for slow classes.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:This is outright unfair to anyone playing condi mirage. Condi mirage has seen enough nerfs.It's unfair to condition anything, for that matter, and I suspect the OP is one of those "conditions bad" types who hates condition builds on principle.

[Yannir.4132]

What game are we talking about here?It's certainly not GW2.Oh well maybe it's GW3, coming out in 2035. Where every opponent is a choya.