Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Warrior Main Since Launch: Berserker is NOT Garbage, But Still Needs Tweaking


Lan Deathrider.5910

Recommended Posts

As title says. Warrior main since launch, mainly PvE and WvW player.

I've had my chance to play around with the new update and wanted to share my own thoughts on it, as well as what I think would make Berserker what it is intended to be.

Losing vanilla Bursts isn't something that is big a deal to me personally. Prior to this last update I never used Bursts over Primal Bursts, mainly because I felt that the Primal Bursts were straight upgrades (with the exception of mace and hammer...), yet I can see how people are upset about it. Particularly that once Berserk Mode ends we have no mechanic anymore. Not that it stopped me from killing foes in WvW, but it still is an oversight. This can be remedied by providing some sort of benefit to being out of Berserk Mode, some of which I detail below.

The change to Arc Divider is amazing. Decapitate needs to be a PBAoE, OR it also needs to provide 10 Adrenaline in addition to recharging if you hit a foe.Rupturing Smash and Skull Grinder need more daze or stun added to them IMHO. Mace and Hammer are our CC weapons, and it feels that their Primal Burst swapped some hard CC for more soft CC. More hard CC, or more damage, would make them better Primal Bursts.

Rage skills extending Berserk Mode is nice, but they should also do something when NOT in Berserk Mode, like reduce its recharge by the same amount that they extend Berserk Mode by, or return the adrenaline gain while not in Berserk Mode.

The trait changes are nice, so long as you are in Berserk Mode... My opinion is that there should be a lesser benefit while not in Berserk Mode, and a greater benefit while in Berserk Mode. For example:

Bloody Roar: Make 20% damage baseline regardless of "Mode", double it if in Berserk Mode. I'd be okay with a 15%/30% split as well. Berserker should give noticeably more damage modifiers than the Strength Line if the players builds for it.

Eternal Champion: Make the toughness part baseline regardless of "Mode" increase it to 600 toughness, reduce this toughness by half in Berserk Mode. I'm open to other numbers, but this is pushing for some sort of benefit for not being in Berserk Mode, and this provides some 'bunker' ability while not in Berserk Mode to survive until the next 12 seconds tick by. Flat damage reduction would also be an option, with a lesser amount in Berserk Mode: 30%/15%? 20%/10%? I'm not sure about those numbers, but if that is what is done then I recommend rolling condition damage reduction into it as well.

King of Fires: Double the burning duration increase if you are in Berserk Mode.

Fatal Frenzy: In addition to the stat gains if you kill a foe gain 5 Adrenaline, extend Berserk Mode by 2 seconds. I think there should be more here for managing Berserk Mode and Adrenaline. My thinking here is that a Berserker is driven by rage, but also by bloodlust, so there should some benefit upon killing a foe. The numbers can be different and I expect split by game mode.

Burst of Aggression: These boons should pulse for the duration of Berserk Mode. right now 3 seconds relative to the length of Berserk Mode is laughable, particularly with the amount of boon strip in parts of the game.

Overall, I do like the changes. I think some of the suggestions above would make (re)building up to full adrenaline to use Berserk Mode and Primal Bursts easier and flow better, but at the same time would make being out of Berserk Mode less of a drawback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I mentioned in another thread, I overall prefer the current design for the skill, but I still want to see just a few changes for now. Something like this:

  • Reduce Adrenaline required to use Berserker from 30 to 20.
  • Make Rage skills reduce the recharge of Berserk for the same amount of seconds they add to Berserk while it's up.
  • Make Berserk end early and recharge faster a few seconds after leaving combat, at the same time when when adrenaline resets.
  • Make Head Butt also add 2s to Berserk mode or reduce recharge of Berserk by 2s when it breaks a stun.
  • Make Outrage have a 2-3s effect that is applied when used while not stunned. Losing stacks of Stability while under this effect will remove the effect and when the effect is removed in this manner, it will add time or reduce recharge of Berserk like when Outrage breaks stun. This way stability from allies and your skills won't make it useless, and Outrage can also be used preemptively.

I'd like to see that first before considering further changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So your tweaks are just massive sweeping buffs? Right. Arc Divider is the only thing that makes Berserker playable and it's just an accident that slipped past the QA. They will nerf it and Berserker will go back to being garbage for another 2 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"YuiRS.8129" said:So your tweaks are just massive sweeping buffs? Right. Arc Divider is the only thing that makes Berserker playable and it's just an accident that slipped past the QA. They will nerf it and Berserker will go back to being garbage for another 2 years.

I am afraid of this... currently I am having fun in WvW with glass cannon rifle/greatsword berserker, even though I die a lot more (that can be expected when playing without stances, shield, etc). If the damages are not good enough for being so glassy, then what is even the point of going "berserk"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@YuiRS.8129 said:So your tweaks are just massive sweeping buffs? Right. Arc Divider is the only thing that makes Berserker playable and it's just an accident that slipped past the QA. They will nerf it and Berserker will go back to being garbage for another 2 years.

Well the theme is supposed to be a full glass cannon that kills or gets killed. It should reflect that. And as I said, there needs to be something there that makes being not in Berserk Mode worth the 12 second cooldown.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Like I mentioned in another thread, I overall prefer the current design for the skill, but I still want to see just a few changes for now. Something like this:

  • Reduce Adrenaline required to use Berserker from 30 to 20.
  • Make Rage skills reduce the recharge of Berserk for the same amount of seconds they add to Berserk while it's up.
  • Make Berserk end early and recharge faster a few seconds after leaving combat, at the same time when when adrenaline resets.
  • Make Head Butt also add 2s to Berserk mode or reduce recharge of Berserk by 2s when it breaks a stun.
  • Make Outrage have a 2-3s effect that is applied when used while not stunned. Losing stacks of Stability while under this effect will remove the effect and when the effect is removed in this manner, it will add time or reduce recharge of Berserk like when Outrage breaks stun. This way stability from allies and your skills won't make it useless, and Outrage can also be used preemptively.

I'd like to see that first before considering further changes.

I like your suggestions as well, though I think your Outrage suggestion is more complex than is needed. There needs to be more adrenaline gain built into Berserker, and there needs to be other ways of extending Berserk Mode. I suggested more of both on killing an enemy, but rolling it into the skills works as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:[...]I like your suggestions as well, though I think your Outrage suggestion is more complex than is needed. There needs to be more adrenaline gain built into Berserker, and there needs to be other ways of extending Berserk Mode. I suggested more of both on killing an enemy, but rolling it into the skills works as well.

Oh, yeah. Berserk recharges on kill sound really nice.Maybe it could be added to Smash Brawler since just +5s duration feels a bit underwhelming even for an Adept tier trait.

  • Smash Brawler
    • Increases berserk mode duration. (Duration increase: 5s)
    • While in berserk mode, kills add duration to berserk mode. (Added duration: 5s, 20s cooldown)
    • While not in berserk mode, kills recharge berserk mode (Recharge reduced: 100%, 40s cooldown)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:[...]I like your suggestions as well, though I think your Outrage suggestion is more complex than is needed. There needs to be more adrenaline gain built into Berserker, and there needs to be other ways of extending Berserk Mode. I suggested more of both on killing an enemy, but rolling it into the skills works as well.

Oh, yeah. Berserk recharges on kill sound really nice.Maybe it could be added to Smash Brawler since just +5s duration feels a bit underwhelming even for an Adept tier trait.
  • Smash Brawler
    • Increases berserk mode duration. (Duration increase: 5s)
    • While in berserk mode, kills add duration to berserk mode. (Added duration: 5s, 20s cooldown)
    • While not in berserk mode, kills recharge berserk mode (Recharge reduced: 100%, 40s cooldown)

I think you are on to something, but the cooldowns may be too low:

  • Smash Brawler
    • Increases berserk mode duration. (Duration increase: 5s)
    • While in berserk mode, kills add duration to berserk mode. (Added duration: 5s, 10s cooldown)
    • While not in berserk mode, kills recharge berserk mode (Recharge reduced: 100%, 20s cooldown)

Does that seem reasonable? I have the feel of the Berserker that it should rely on momentum to stay in Berserk Mode, so it should easily be able to extend Berserk Mode by killing things.

Another idea: Return adrenaline gain to the rage skills, remove the increase time in Berserk Mode. Add an internal counter so that every 10 adrenaline gained extends Berserk Mode by 1 second while in Berserk Mode, and decreases Berserk Mode recharge by 1 second while out of Berserk Mode.

That would give the rushed feel to the Berserker and propel them to seek out more fighting and lend itself to a faced paced reckless playstyle. It would also help streamline Raid rotations that are now clunky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:[...]I think you are on to something, but the cooldowns may be too low:

  • Smash Brawler
    • Increases berserk mode duration. (Duration increase: 5s)
    • While in berserk mode, kills add duration to berserk mode. (Added duration: 5s, 10s cooldown)
    • While not in berserk mode, kills recharge berserk mode (Recharge reduced: 100%, 20s cooldown)

Does that seem reasonable? I have the feel of the Berserker that it should rely on momentum to stay in Berserk Mode, so it should easily be able to extend Berserk Mode by killing things.

That may be too short cooldowns in modes with lots of possible kills, like open world PvE and WvW large scale battles.

Maybe it could be the first trait using the ammo system. It could be 3-5 charges for either effect, with duration added from kills getting 10s cooldown, recharge reduction getting 20s cooldown, but the charges themselves getting 30-40s cooldown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my hammer skills seem to hit better than gunflame LMAO overall.

I was thinking of the same changes. But then I thought that anet wants beserk mode to be aggressive.

So...how about something more than relying on RNG gs arc divider(enemy dodges at right time, none of the 3 hits will touch them LMAO)

Right now its not a good 1v1 spec nor a roaming unless no one focus you. In zergs this berserker mode is shining honestly. Im switching all my SB back into berserker before we get nerfed.

The 20% dmg modifier needs to be split. 10% baseline and 20% while in berserker modealso grant fury boon upon entry

the major condi trait(fire thing), needs to have like 7%/14% split in additional condition damage.right now it doesnt add any dmg

eternal champion should be +450 thoughness (meaning we will actually have +150 thoughness)also eternal champion needs stability on enter(3 stacks, 3 seconds duration)bring back pulsing stab(1 stack 3 second duration, every 3 second)

Also we need pulsing boons every 3 seconds:mightfuryswiftness

on entry:quickness(3s)resistance(3s)stability(1 stack, 3s)

All rage skills should provide adrenaline when not in berserker modewhen in berserker mode, no adrenaline but extend duration

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:[...]I think you are on to something, but the cooldowns may be too low:
  • Smash Brawler
    • Increases berserk mode duration. (Duration increase: 5s)
    • While in berserk mode, kills add duration to berserk mode. (Added duration: 5s, 10s cooldown)
    • While not in berserk mode, kills recharge berserk mode (Recharge reduced: 100%, 20s cooldown)

Does that seem reasonable? I have the feel of the Berserker that it should rely on momentum to stay in Berserk Mode, so it should easily be able to extend Berserk Mode by killing things.

That may be too short cooldowns in modes with lots of possible kills, like open world PvE and WvW large scale battles.

Maybe it could be the first trait using the ammo system. It could be 3-5 charges for either effect, with duration added from kills getting 10s cooldown, recharge reduction getting 20s cooldown, but the charges themselves getting 30-40s cooldown.

You are right in that having more things to kill would let the Berserker remain in Berserk Mode longer, not a bad thing, nor is your recommendation. The over all feel from people is that what is there now is too short, and I think rewarding active gameplay may be a better approach. Its up to Anet to decide now.

@KhainPride.3987 said:

The 20% dmg modifier needs to be split. 10% baseline and 20% while in berserker modealso grant fury boon upon entry

the major condi trait(fire thing), needs to have like 7%/14% split in additional condition damage.right now it doesnt add any dmg

eternal champion should be +450 thoughness (meaning we will actually have +150 thoughness)also eternal champion needs stability on enter(3 stacks, 3 seconds duration)bring back pulsing stab(1 stack 3 second duration, every 3 second)

Also we need pulsing boons every 3 seconds:mightfuryswiftness

on entry:quickness(3s)resistance(3s)stability(1 stack, 3s)

All rage skills should provide adrenaline when not in berserker modewhen in berserker mode, no adrenaline but extend duration

It seems that other people are agreeing that there should be lesser benefits to being out of Berserk Mode :+1: Perhaps if more of us constructively provide such feedback rather then the QQ others are posting Anet will make some needed tweaks. I'm interested in hearing what other warriors think Berserker needs after this rework to make it work better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh believe me, it's VERY op vs. builds that don't have teleports and have to be on point for cap.

You can't even play scrapper vs. a good Berserker right now for example. VERY very oppressive vs. builds that have to stand on point and can't teleport.

But then people just make a comp that can 1v1 and teleport or soulbeast just destroys you flat out if the soulbeast has half a brain.

God tier vs. bad builds/bad players, but can't do anything vs. ACTUAL good players with good builds and know how to simply wait out berserker mode and then kill you. That's why it deserves all the old complain about it.

At least the old Berserker can fight back with Core F1 if Berserker mode is down. This one? Your back to back Arc Divider better kill people before Berserker Mode is down or else they just kill you and you can't fight back. Does that sound well designed to you? The fact that you can crush bad builds/bad players but you can't do anything vs. the top notch builds that are controlled by people with half a brain?

Could probably borderline be godly vs. Firebrand too if you learn how to use signet of might and spam Arc Divider.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there should be some drawbacks to Berserker, (no core f1's) and chance for counterplay (no perma b-mode). I dont really think Berserk mode should be this really long lasting thing that seems to go on forever, with really high spike damage. Some of the suggestions seem to go towards that direction.

The biggest problem to me is the control in entering and exiting the mode. Bring back the control but keep the counterplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^And you know what ANET is going to say to that? "Warrior should lose control of itself, should be part of the mechanic"

I doubt they're going to want you to be able to exit Berserker mode at will.

This is why themes are garbage, just balance the game and make it fun. Like for example? If berserker should be an attack spec, then the old Berserker could've had unblockable for 4 seconds when entering as a simple fix.

If you put baseline unblockables on Berserker mode now with it's Arc Divider? It's too broken even though it "fits" with the theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I think we all agree on the same point. The main problem with berserk right now, it's that there is berserk mode, and normal mode.

The way it's designed, we have plenty of buffs while in berserk mode...but nothing when we're not. No mechanics (meaning no benefits from all traits based on bursts). Most trait lose their effect. It just feels so frustrating. Then it's all about remaining in berserk mode for as long as possible.

There is also a major inconsistency: burst of agression and savage instinct, which work on berserk activation, actually have reduced benefits if you extend berserk duration. That is...absurd.

The way it is, I personnaly see to options to make berserk more fun while keeping its level of power:

1) Instead of extending berserk duration, rage skills time adjustments reduce the cooldown of berserk mode (reduction applies whether you're in or out berserk mode). Berserk duration and cooldown both increase from 15s to 20s. Smash brawler reduce cooldown by 5s and grant you 10 adrenaline if not in berserk mode AND in combat (cooldown 30s).The cooldown of berserk cannot go below 10s.This way, burst of agression and savage instinct have more meaning, we're less in a rush and it's easy to go in and out of the mode.

2) Improving non-berserk mode by adjusting traits (the same way as blood reaction for god's sake...) :

  • Bloody roar: +10% damage , doubled in berserk mode
  • Eternal champion: +150 toughness: doubled in berserk mode. break stun effect unchanged

Also, maybe add specific effect to fatal frenzy and burst of agression when going out of berserk. Some kind of recovery.Ex: burst of agression heals you by 2000 hp and grant resistance for 3s when going out of berserk mode.

3) It's in addition of 1) or 2) but...I'm desperate to see the rifle becoming powerful one day. Since it's much better with berserker, I had hope it could work...but no.So some wishes about rifle:

  • Fierce shot: bonus damage from vulnerability is doubled
  • Volley: Successful shots grant power (x1, 5s)
  • Crack shot trait: in addition to previous effect, base shot deal +25% more damage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am OKAY with the theme of Berserker having no core bursts, but that means Berserk mode needs to be as potent as death shroud (especially reaper shroud, it's direct competitor).

Arguably, the only weapon that works like that is Greatsword, which ironically has a spin to win dps skill just like reaper.

Other weapons get neutered by the changes:Longbow is laughable without a long duration fire field for king of fires.
No immobolize access for sword.No hard cc for mace, you only get a daze with skull grinder.Axe lost its leap finisher and the cone just is a weird pair for axe.No hard cc burst for hammer, daze for warrior is just ehhhh.Gunflame is lol but it doesn't really work that well with the range profile berserker is good at (aka using rage skills to prolong berserk mode is counter to rifle's game plan).

Personally I'd like to see:Berserker granted barrier of some kind, especially if traited (dead or alive, eternal champion, savage instinct instead of the 100% invuln). This brings you closer to the Reaper style of life force becoming hp and doesn't boost berserker's overall hp since the barrier will fade after some time (just like how life force decays while shroud is active). It also contrasts with reaper by letting allies heal you (unlike reaper) which i think is an interesting design since berserker makes themselves squishier (less toughness) but can be healed.Berserker also needs a real quickness option like the power reaper traits so you can just go ham with 100b, Flaming Flurry, or whatever the heck you want. 3 seconds of quickness and super speed ONE time on activation is hilariously bad.Longbow Primal Burst needs to linger as a fire field that does NOT do damage so we can actually use king of fires with anything besides Sword/Torch.Rage skills need to do something outside of berserk mode.Activating berserk mode needs to apply the attack based on the range of the weapon. Longbow and Rifle suffer a lot from being distance weapons (not as much for longbow though obviously), while ALL of berserker's rage skills and mode activation are about melee sticking power. Core Warrior is already about melee sticking power, lets see some alternatives to that please.King of Fires grants fire aura when adrenaline reaches the cap (including the smaller cap for berserk mode), 30 second cooldown. Cooldown resets whenever you use a primal burst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"eXruina.4956" said:So many people whining in the forums.. "what I want..", "what it should be.." while the real warriors are in-game playing it, learning it and figuring out how to break it..

Must've forgotten what Berserker was before the changes.. its an improvement to say the least.

Exactly this, I'm having a blast on my berserker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"eXruina.4956" said:So many people whining in the forums.. "what I want..", "what it should be.." while the real warriors are in-game playing it, learning it and figuring out how to break it..

Must've forgotten what Berserker was before the changes.. its an improvement to say the least.

Maybe some people already did and they concluded that Berserker is not there yet?It is not that difficult to theorycraft with warrior class, which is pretty straightforward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My apologies for not commenting over the weekend.

More constructive comments :+1: I had a chance to enjoy the Insta-gib event in WvW this weekend with my FotM armor (I know full berserker glass cannon in WvW is a no-no, but it is no downstate week so YOLO). I was insta-gibbing anything not a bunker build or spellbreaker. When the zerg hit a tower I did manage a 67k Arc Divider on the tower champion. I have a screenshot of the combat log, but not on this computer. I was not even in full DPS gear. Vampiric runs instead of Scholar, no stat infusions, no bloodlust stacks, no banners, Arms instead of Discipline, Accuracy sigil instead of more +%damage. Arc Divider can easily get pushed to a 90k crit or higher right now with full DPS gear and buffs/debuffs.

So the damage is in the right place, at least on Greatsword. The other Primal Bursts may need love, namely mace and hammer.

The consensus is still that Berserk Mode needs to either be easier to maintain over a longer period with its bonuses from Savage Instinct and Burst of Aggression pulsing their benefits, or to have Berserk Mode easier to get access to again once it times out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...