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how is it possible? how do I rank if this is matchmaking?


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I just want to understand. how is it possible for me to be plat3 and to be teammed with players much lower than me (gold) and that instead I'm versus players platinum 2/3 ... obviously if I lose I will lose 23 points and if I win I will take 7 but I'm not in a group with gold players .. matchmaking automatically puts me in a team with gold and versus platinum people ... there is no game because obviously a player who is in gold is not as strong as one in platinum. ... (just look at the puncture of the matches) and more if I lose I lost 23 points..I think it's ridiculous to the point ... I hope for your answer thanks

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@zombyturtle.5980 said:theres just not enough ppl playing ranked to have fair matches.

yes but not justifies the fact that I have to play with gold and versus platinum people .... and above all does not justify the fact that nevertheless should lose 23 points .... if you put me in a team with lower people then take off half of half of the points if I lose .. and if I win the same ... one thing is if I have to play in party whit low player .. anothe thing a is if the matchmaking puts me alone for lack of player.an option is:give bonuses to those who play well ... so if you made a statistic, 2 or 3 based on how you played instead of losing points or you lose less or even earn ... otherwise all this makes no sense

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True answer? It isn't.

PvP is dead and gone, and people saying otherwise are just fooling themselves. Arena Net did this to the game, and sadly, the person in charge of that mishandling is still in charge, so there's no perspective for a change.I'd recomend you doing what i did and find a different game for your PvP fix.

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PVP is fun to mess around with friends in unranked. IDK how people can take ranked seriously. There is no true matchmaking since theres barely enough people to fill a queue and balance is just a mess half the time. Combine that with 3 month windows between patches and ppl will just give up.

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Pvp won’t ever get better because of the skill gap. It’s not noob friendly so new player don’t stick around long ofc due to match makeing. They get half their games vs players who have a very high skill floor and new players don’t stick and go to wvw

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I wouldn't mind a queue of 10 minutes, instead of 5 minutes, if that put me in a balanced game.

But at this point, I can't even care anymore. I just figure out after the first minutes if the matchmaking put me in the winning or losing team, and just stop to care from that point forward for the rest of the match.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:True answer? It isn't.

PvP is dead and gone, and people saying otherwise are just fooling themselves. Arena Net did this to the game, and sadly, the person in charge of that mishandling is still in charge, so there's no perspective for a change.I'd recomend you doing what i did and find a different game for your PvP fix.

I don't know of another MMO that has better pvp.Kind of funny, you get your pvp fix from another game, yet here you are on the PvP Forums of GW2.Odd, isn't it?

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Honestly, I think matchmaking is completely broken beyond what people think and that it has been for the longest time - even before the population decline. I am by no means a good player and I acknowledge that but I've somehow been able to hover around gold 3 / plat 1 most seasons. Sometimes I drop down below, sometimes I can hit plat 2 and border plat 3 but pretty stable around gold 3 / plat 1.

Some things that are pretty consistent for me:

  1. I solo queue 99% of the time even back when you could have full premades in ranked.
  2. I play every class at some point - which I get makes me not a "master" at any of them but it's how I still find fun in the game.
  3. I queue at any and all times.
  4. Placement matches usually go pretty bad for me. Sometimes half the matches are riddled with afk's out the gate, people that log out for seemingly no reason. I've even had many matches where we were +200 and somehow my team seemed to just give up or maybe we just got sloppy I don't know. So, I usually have to climb at the beginning of seasons until I'm at my average spot.
  5. Most of my queue times are +5 min (I've been told to requeue at that point, so I usually do) even back before the population declined.

From my experience, I've noticed that the game stacks matches. I don't know if it's a broken algorithm, people gaming the system, intentional, or something else entirely. But it's not uncommon for me to see double duo queue against a full side of randoms. I'll find that a lot of those double duo are players in the top 25 or close to it. On my side I often find no name players like myself. This used to happen a lot more when we had a bigger population but I still come across it quite often, especially the two sets of duo on the enemy team. Now you can argue that the ratings of the two duo are lower than the people on my team but I find that it's actually the reverse and it's easier to see when the duos are recognizable players. But even still, having 2 sets of coordinated people against 5 randoms makes a huge difference. I don't understand how or why the game decides to throw 2 sets of duo onto one side - shouldn't it recognize it and try to balance one per side?

Next is that the game puts me on win/loss streaks pretty consistently. The other day I went on a 10+ win streak that brought me up to 1573. Then yesterday, like clockwork I went on a 12-14 game losing streak. It didn't matter what role I played, if I took a break between queues, if I tried to support or play offensive, every game was a loss. At least 4 of the matches had an afk or d/c very early on but this tanked me all the way down to 1410-20ish? I can't check right now. I guess it's the game trying to keep me 50/50 but it just feels bad and there are a bunch of times where it feels that I don't have an impact on the match and that it's already been decided before it even started. Then I get put on a win streak and it seems that I can literally afk some matches and would still win - so there seems to be something off here. These streaks have occurred over days before as well. It seems I hit a wall and rather than hovering I just get tanked, only to climb back up and rinse and repeat.

The other thing is, I almost always lose more points per loss than I get per win. It is so common for me to win 7-12 per win but lose 14-18 per loss and I'm not even high rated, so I don't understand how that can be. I do occasionally get 15-18 per win but I find that to be quite rare. If I was in the upper tiers because of the rating discrepancy, I can understand but if I'm just in the average rating what gives? It just feels bad to have to win 2-3 games per loss to maintain or go up in rating. Especially when matchmaking feels so volatile. Half the time it seems like a gamble to even get put on a team that has a chance at having a balanced match.

Finally, my queues have always been bad. People say, what do you want "10 min queues"? Well, that's what I have the vast majority of the time. Last night alone I had multiple 9+ minute queues (Dropping queue at 5 min, then sitting in queue again for another 4 min). My average wait time is over 5 minutes and while I do get the quicker queues at times, I often find myself sitting 5 min + in queue. So yes, if matches could have better quality if everyone else had to wait longer, then I would definitely say yes. It sucks sitting in a 9 minute queue to hop into a match that ends up 50-500.

It's frustrating for me because the combat/gameplay is so fluid and fun but the systems built around it seem so unrewarding/punishing. I wish pvp was on more than a maintenance mode that people barely work on because no other game/mmo plays this fun for me. But the other aspects of it keep pushing me away.

Just my two cents. I'm sure most disagree with me but I think the entire MM system has major flaws.

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@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:True answer? It isn't.

PvP is dead and gone, and people saying otherwise are just fooling themselves. Arena Net did this to the game, and sadly, the person in charge of that mishandling is still in charge, so there's no perspective for a change.I'd recomend you doing what i did and find a different game for your PvP fix.

I don't know of another MMO that has better pvp.Kind of funny, you get your pvp fix from another game, yet here you are on the PvP Forums of GW2.Odd, isn't it?

Better PvP? Many other MMORPGs in the world have better and more healthy PvP. If you mean a better combat system, i'd have to agree there.But here's the question: Do you want to have a terrible experience in PvP just because the combat system is good? Or would you rather play in a better PvP system, with a "worse" combat system?Me, i chose the later, and i've been getting my PvP fix in LoL and Apex. I'm also trying out Albion online, and it looks like a fun game, with open world PvP, GVG and Faction Wars.

To be honest, i came by the post from the "Discussions" tab, because honestly, good luck in finding a solution to PvP in GW2, so i don't care much about the game mode, but the title piqued my interest and i checked it out. That's pretty much how i got involved in just about any PvP discussion in the last year and a half, from the "Discussions" tab.

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@Exedore.6320 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:theres just not enough ppl playing ranked to have fair matches.

yes but not justifies the fact that I have to play with gold and versus platinum people ....You have two options:
  1. Play with people from gold
  2. Don't play at all (just sit in queue forever)Which do you want?

I know I don't speak for everyone, but i'd pick 2 everytime. I think those queue times are bit overstated. Sure it'd take longer to match people against similarly structured teams with all plat players, but I see a ton of plat badges in the lobby and in open world in general. They gotta queue up eventually to keep that rank. I don't mind waiting an extra 5 minutes if it means a more fair and fun game for everyone where you get more points for winning, and a more fair amount for losing.

I'm with the op in that I don't want to get into a game full of golds to play through some blowout win/loss and get barely anything for it should it be a win, or lose enough to go about repeating the process twice just to earn back what I lost from one boring, terrible, awful match.

Heck, if there were a capper in how far apart two rating could be matched it might stop or at the very least slow down the off-hour wintrading. Bring some of those leaderboard winrates down from 80%. Would stop the top 25 Duos rolling uncontested at lower levels too, even if every plat player still has to deal with them, but at least then they have to play against people of a more similar ranking.

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If you like to pvp for killing other toons and not for rewards. All your life's worries will go away when you switch to unranked.

During the season all the trash moves it's way into ranked for the rewards. Wintraders with alts, hackers, bots, and pve reward hunter afks.

Best option is to do what I didn in season 7 and quit ranked all together. In unranked you get a afk or DC every 10 - 20 games or so. Not every other match like ranked.

Ranked is just a joke on the community where you wont make top unless you wintrade your way there like the rest. Not worth the time

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@zombyturtle.5980 said:PVP is fun to mess around with friends in unranked. IDK how people can take ranked seriously. There is no true matchmaking since theres barely enough people to fill a queue and balance is just a mess half the time.

This is the worst and the most common argument in relation to pvp complaints imo. Basically you are telling ppl to just leave ranked Q because there are not enough ppl in ranked Q which in return would cause even less ppl going into ranked Q. Shouldn't we do the opposite and promote going into ranked so it gets more populated and becomes actually enjoyable again instead? I mean your point with friends in unranked is viable because ranked only has duo Q but if I remember correctly there won't be a premade team Q because the playerbase is low.. it's just a vicious cycle. The easy solution would be to just leave ye but I mean we are all still here so shouldn't we start doing the opposite?

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ahahahahahah how ridiculous is this game ???? it makes you win a game clearly to be taken for granted ... and it makes you lose one clearly to be taken for granted .... in the team with gold against the "best of the best" if you can call it that, but looking only at the rank against people is 17 and takes away 19 points ahahahahahahhaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaah ANET WAKE UP YOU ARE TOO MUCH RIDICULOUS

https://imgur.com/pvYhcw9

it is as if the system has already decided at the beginning of the season where I have to position myself and so with everyone..then you will go up a tot and you will go down a tot .... and you are obliged to play for the decay ... but on what base decided ??? what kind of game is ??? anet u make me laugh sooo hard...... RIDICOLOUS

INCREDIBLE AS MANY PLAYERS ARE READY OF THE SAME THING and you do nothing ..... think about changing the coliseum in the worst possible way .. to give the possibility to build trolls to be even more effective .... I keep asking if you do to piss off people or you're really tard....and of course you don't answer any of the questions asked to which everyone wants an answer

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Thats what i think happend with matchmaking (no science, it is just how it feels for me):

They messed up the matchmaking in S2 where ppl with average (like a completely new account) and above average account mmr could get 85 winstreaks right to legend. Matches were so unbalanced that the weaker team got keepfarmed 500:0 in a lot of matches. Basic plan of this was to make sure ppl get to the division they belong fast to avoid unsatisfying matches for noobs who get farmed and higher skilled ppl who have no challenging matches. It went so wrong it was ridiculous. They tried to correct this insane matchmanipulating matchmaking system in S3 to some less uneven teammatchups but somehow they never got it fixed to not manipulating anymore. You now have totally predictable artificial win- and lose streaks. You get to your rating sooner or later but when your account got a lower hidden account mmr for whatever reasons you have to grind asf through unwinabale matches way more and not everyone is in the mood to grind that many matches through that many undeserved loses with bad quality matches to make it to plat3 or legend. During that you also then have to deal with trolls and wintraders throwing matches on purpose. Wintrader often doesn't even dc anymore to make it less obvious, so you lose rating in addition to your time and love for pvp in gw2.

There are maybe not enough ppl to get 2 teams of ppl with a rating not too far away from each other but there are for sure still enough ppl to at least give ppl the same amount of low skilled/ high skilled player to make less uneven/ unwinable matches. But often you see 2 higher rated duos on same team vs 5 randoms without even higher rank. It is still the old S2 matchmanipulation matchmaking working here, carrying ppl to higher rating with a self-fulfilling prophecy mechanic.

One other problem is that it seems mm looks only for average team mmr. Means when you are in plat 3/ legend unlucky playing at a time no enough ppl with that rating are online (don't even need to be in the middle of the night or early morning) he get like silvers he is supposed to carry vs a full gold team just because the gold team doesn't have a plat rated player. That is just not working. The Plat 3 player then get -30 for a lose or +5 for a win in case he somehow could fly around the map being everywhere at same time to prevent his silver teammates to get farmed by the golds even 4v2.

Bit overdoing examples to make it plain. As said you still can get where you belong but it can need a long time / a lot of matches, just as someone with a hidden account mmr above his skill lvl (and yes that happens, maybe from wintrading, maybe being lucky in the first 20-50 ranked matches of the account, carried by a stronger duo or whatever, i actually would like to see how matchmaking creates the hidden acc mmr compared to the visible season rating on lb and from what it get affected how much etc. , because that is what the matchmanipulation- self-fulfilling prophecy matchmaking is based on i think). Just like in S2 you can be on the lucky side of this (being carried by matchmaking for a long time, thats why you see quite some ppl with higher titles they would deserve by skill aside from wintrading) or the unlucky side (so you have to grind a lot to get to where you deserve to be) or none of both. But there is clearly something wrong and too artificial too much of a self-fulfilling prophecy thing running with the matchmaking since S2 and it has nothing to do with too less ppl in same rating-range playing at same time. That just get on the top of it.

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@yanniell.1236 said:I wouldn't mind a queue of 10 minutes, instead of 5 minutes, if that put me in a balanced game.

But at this point, I can't even care anymore. I just figure out after the first minutes if the matchmaking put me in the winning or losing team, and just stop to care from that point forward for the rest of the match.

Except that. That's just all in your head. I had games where we were down 250 n my team started to call wintrade n cry about the other team members. Oh I am plat blabla u all noobs, but in actuality every 1 in that match was plat. I just said hey just keep playing. We then caught up n won 500-450.

I hate it when it's a game where ppl just give up. Some times the team just needs to adjust to the other team.

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@DoomNexus.5324 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:PVP is fun to mess around with friends in unranked. IDK how people can take ranked seriously. There is no true matchmaking since theres barely enough people to fill a queue and balance is just a mess half the time.

This is the worst and the most common argument in relation to pvp complaints imo. Basically you are telling ppl to just leave ranked Q because there are not enough ppl in ranked Q which in return would cause even less ppl going into ranked Q. Shouldn't we do the opposite and promote going into ranked so it gets more populated and becomes actually enjoyable again instead? I mean your point with friends in unranked is viable because ranked only has duo Q but if I remember correctly there won't be a premade team Q because the playerbase is low.. it's just a vicious cycle. The easy solution would be to just leave ye but I mean we are all still here so shouldn't we start doing the opposite?

If it was balanced and enjoyable for most ppl sure. Its definitly not balanced. Enjoyable is subjective but I dont really find it fun so I wouldnt encourage people to go play.

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The big problem is a large fraction of the top players manipulate the queuing system and matchmaker so they don't have to play against other top players.

IMO they should run ATs every hour or two, and count this for ratings. Also, they should significantly limit the rating range for making teams. While the tryhards at the top of the rating system will have longer queue times, they can pick their own teams and just do ATs.

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@DoomNexus.5324 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:PVP is fun to mess around with friends in unranked. IDK how people can take ranked seriously. There is no true matchmaking since theres barely enough people to fill a queue and balance is just a mess half the time.

This is the worst and the most common argument in relation to pvp complaints imo. Basically you are telling ppl to just leave ranked Q because there are not enough ppl in ranked Q which in return would cause even less ppl going into ranked Q. Shouldn't we do the opposite and promote going into ranked so it gets more populated and becomes actually enjoyable again instead? I mean your point with friends in unranked is viable because ranked only has duo Q but if I remember correctly there won't be a premade team Q because the playerbase is low.. it's just a vicious cycle. The easy solution would be to just leave ye but I mean we are all still here so shouldn't we start doing the opposite?

I think it is just reality. The game is 5+ years old, it offers legendary armor as a reward, and it is pretty complicated to pick up. There is not going to be a large influx of people that are going to spend the effort to play at a plat 2/3 level.

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