Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)

[mortrialus.3062]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

WOW THE POWER DAMAGE ON THIS SKILL IS

OFF THE CHARTS

PLEASE NERF

THE SECOND SLOWEST CAST SKILL IN THE ENTIRE GAME ONLY LOSING TO 100B (Which does way more damage and is aoe)

X D

this is HYGH DAMAGE GUYS

it's not even on a person with demolisher amulet, it's on a person with mirror/same amulet (deadshot in this picture)

people only look at extreme cases where scep 3 does 12k damage but nobody looks ta cases where it does 2,000 damage. GW2 community in a nutshell, nobody looks at the picture as a whole and everybody just says whatever fits them to say

the problem isnt with scepter 3, the problem is with how much damage power gives (to ALL classes) and with how much damage 25 might stacks give (which is what chrono can get) and with how much damage reduction protection has (33%). All of these are major factors and without all of these aligning you won't hit people for 12k while ranger pet charge does 12k even if you're playing a condition amulet cause your amulet doesn't matter for your pet's stats. So, not only it casts faster (by an AI) and does more damage but it also doesn't even require an amuletif you wanna complain about something go ahead and complain about the power scaling in this game .. as i have.. because i can actually identify what the problems with gw2 are and i'm not impartial and biased and i don't post half-truths

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62116/the-protection-boon-alone-is-making-80-of-the-builds-unviable

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59778/condition-builds-require-way-more-skill-than-cheesy-power-burst-ones

threads posted months ago, there's more but this forum is so heavily censored that getting any actual viable info through is a challenge because the moderators don't like freedom of speech or truth and a lot of the factual information posted here seems to be deleted if it doesn't fit some people's agenda

the fact thatno+power amulet scepter 3 with 0 might stacks would do under 1600 damage on a person with demolisher amulet and protection and

+power/ferocity amulet with fury/25might stacks on a person with no protection/demolisher would do 13,000+ damage

doesn't speak to scepter 3 being broken, i don't understand in WHAT WORLD IS THE SKILL BROKEN WHEN THE SKILL IS THE ONLY CONSTANT IN THIS EQUATION? It's the power multipliers that are broken and flawed and it's those that need to be reworked/nerfed/changed/standard-ized so that it's more balanced

scep 3 does around 6k damage on a hybrid amulet which is on the low side for its cast time and that's okay

meanwhile, 100b does 20k dmg, guard gs2 does 12k+ dmg while any symbol does 10k dmg with might stacks if u stand in it, ranger 2 does 20k dmg with sickem and no might, ranger maul does 12k+ dmg, worldly imp;act does 18k dmg, backstab does more dmg than scep 3 and so on and so on

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53000/game-update-notes-august-28-2018

MesmerIllusionary Counter: This skill now summons two clones instead of one if the mesmer successfully blocks a strike.Counterspell: In addition to its previous effects, mesmers will summon a clone to attack the first enemy struck by this skill.Confusing Images: The animation length of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.25 seconds. The damage has been increased by 25% per strike, and the number of strikes has been increased from 6 to 7.

scepter received buffs less than a year ago because it was too weak

Confusing Images:

The animation length of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.25 seconds

. The damage has been increased by 25% per strike, and the number of strikes has been increased from 6 to 7.

scepter 3 received a dmg buff but a cast time nerf because the skill was too weak and it's POWER WAS INCREASED AT THE PRICE OF CAST TIME

their INTENTION was to make the skill "hit hard" and even then it doesn't hit hard (on condi mirage at least) because of how other circumstances (as mentioned above) matter so much

why is it so hard for people to be objective?

It hits hard with power instead of with condi.right now, that's what I don't like.

how is 2000 damage hard?

it hits hard BECAUSE of how much power gives, not because the skill has too much power

and i've said that the power dmg in this game is way too high FOREVER ago. If you nerf it's power damage then in my gif it would do 1500 dmg instead 2000 dmg how is that not pathetic for the 2nd slowest cast skill in the game?

the solution is OBVIOUS. Nerf the amount of power you get from might stacks or the max amount of might stacks or the dmg multiplier from power stat which will affect all classes in the game, as it should, because the power dmg is way too high compared to condi for all classes in the game

You want less power damage, more condi damage. I propse to lower power damage on scepter 3 and increase condi damage. And yet you complain. Incredible.

no, i want less power damage in the entire game and i want a mesmer to have a hybrid weapon that works with amulets such as wizard (or even viper)

what's incredible is that you don't understand that the skill doesn't do good damage unless you have +power/ferocity/might stacks and your enemy has no protectionnone of these circumstances are related to scepter 3 itself

scepter 3 itself isn't the issue

how can this be too hard to understand ?

And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

[incisorr.9502]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:And I disagree. How hard is it?

that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

By the way, this guy said I am

like a flat-earther

for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and

gave me a warning

?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

It has medium range.

It's targeted non-aoe skill.

The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)

the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the game

@mortrialus.3062 said:

And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

[Quadox.7834]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:And I disagree. How hard is it?

that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

By the way, this guy said I am

like a flat-earther

for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and

gave me a warning

?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

It has medium range.

It's targeted non-aoe skill.

The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.I never said that base damage would be a better way to nerf the skill, I am fine with changing the modifier.Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)I dispute that, I don't think chrono is better at getting might than mirage. The leg up that chrono has is phantasmal force, which doesn't give very much might at all even with chronophantasma by my testing. Meanwhile mirage has gs ambush and staff ambush which give more might in my experience.

the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the gameI haven't tested it with builds that lack power but this sounds fine.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

[mortrialus.3062]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:And I disagree. How hard is it?

that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

By the way, this guy said I am

like a flat-earther

for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and

gave me a warning

?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

It has medium range.

It's targeted non-aoe skill.

The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)

the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the game

@mortrialus.3062 said:

And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

Nerf condi removal until pure condi is viable. EZ fix.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

When confounding suggestions change was suggested it was with an ICD, without it chronos will stun for incredible amounts of time, next pvp forums cries will be about it, mesmer will get nerfed even harder and other professions will escape the nerfs once more.So ANet add an ICD to CS before patch release please.

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:When confounding suggestions change was suggested it was with an ICD, without it chronos will stun for incredible amounts of time, next pvp forums cries will be about it, mesmer will get nerfed even harder and other professions will escape the nerfs once more.So ANet add an ICD to CS before patch release please.

It doesn't stack, but yeah it will still be potentially long with CS and Signet of Illusions.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Updated with blinding dissipation, evasive mirror and confusing images.

[dronte.3416]

All dueling master traits are borderline useless now. It doesn't matter if we are talking about power or condi mirage, core mes, or anything, which is ridiculous. The on-demand blind was what made melee dueling possible against hard-hitting (currently overtuned) melee classes like holosmith and spellbreaker (see: Rampage).

Now Blinding Dissipation is completely utter useless. Rework.

The Evasive Mirror nerf was well-deserved, but 10s seems a bit excessive imo. Anet could lower cd to around 7-8s but it still will be a very clunky trait. Rework.

Sword trait is totally useless for pvp obviously, but I guess it's needed for PvE builds?

All 3 main hand weapons for mesmer are actually terrible now.

Sword was good until the evade frame was nerfed, now it's even worse without the blind traits (you are forced to attack ranged more). Barely useful. One small buff should start with extending the range of sword3+ port imo, or make sword2 1,5s evade (why was it nerfed in the first place...?)

Scepter3 hits like a wet noodle now, nerf, again, was well-deserved, but way over the top. Either buff it back by 10-20%, or rework.

Axe.. always a clunky weapon, now nerfed to ground (deservedly). Rework.

These are the first few things that come to my mind, but there are an incredibly huge number of traits being useless on mesmer...

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I am still firmly of the mind that ALL weapon skills for all classes should be removed and integrated into the baseline weapon. You know how to use the weapon cause it's part of the class, period, done. Replace them all with something else.

It's also not consistent what classes and weapons have these or not.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Since we got new people on the balance team I think it's worth trying to bump this. While most of these are still accurate, I'll edit the op with new stuff.Feel free to add your ideas, I'll add those to the first post.

[viquing.8254]

Put back some glamour trait instead of bad designed flat thing like egotism.About chrono I think having more health on illusion (+80%) can provide a differenciation than core/mirage while no be in this current unplyable state.

[Quadox.7834]

Don't buff anything, just (1) QoL (2) Add glamour trait (3) Nerfs.

Do the same with all classes (in line with the announced long term powerlevel adjustment prospects).

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@viquing.8254 said:Put back some glamour trait instead of bad designed flat thing like egotism.About chrono I think having more health on illusion (+80%) can provide a differenciation than core/mirage while no be in this current unplyable state.

Added those in the op post.

@Quadox.7834 said:Don't buff anything, just (1) QoL (2) Add glamour trait (3) Nerfs.

Do the same with all classes (in line with the announced long term powerlevel adjustment prospects).

While it would be good, I doubt any other professions will get nerfed as hard as mesmer was this past 2 years plus all of this suggestions are buffs to useless trash.

[Curunen.8729]

Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

I only have two points:

• StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
• StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Curunen.8729 said:Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

I only have two points:

• StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
• StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

Added those to the first post.

[Leonidrex.5649]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/84289/qol-changes#latest gonna leave it here

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/84289/qol-changes#latest gonna leave it here

Added those to the first post.

[Quadox.7834]

@Curunen.8729 said:Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

I only have two points:

• StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
• StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

Yep, sounds good.