What is the current state of warrior in PvE? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What is the current state of warrior in PvE?

Is it a desired DPS in fractals and raids? No more BS right?

Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    your still a bs just not might stacker mate

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    status = exists

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bs? What is that? What is it for?

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭

    banner bot

  • Nash.2681Nash.2681 Member ✭✭✭

    @dusanyu.4057 said:
    banner bot

    BS might also refer to the Berserker Elite Spec, but usually it's short for banner slave.

    XMG U716
    i7-6700 (Desktop version)
    16GB RAM
    Geforce 980m

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭

    Even with the recent changes to banners, for high end PvE you are only really wanted because of the buffs that your banners bring. Hence, warriors are expected to equip them and use them on cool down. You can take either a core power build (axe/axe + mace/mace) for ok damage and good cc, or a condition berserker elite build (sw/torch + LB) with a bit better damage over longer fights and good cc.

    I'm not certain if it is still meta, but when I was running T4s a lot power core BS warriors were desired in the group.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Simply put, bannerslave remains meta because the warrior:

    • does decent enough damage (not top tier, but decent except on condi)
    • brings banners which increase group/raid damage
    • brings a lot of cc which frees up cc requirements on other classes
    • banner uptime can/must be manage by only the warrior (resulting in slightly better repositioning ability if unorganized)

    Banners overall increase group/raid damage less than before, thus not taking a bannerslave is less of a penalty. For fractals, not taking a bs is viable enough if you can manage cc, will be a dps loss in a high performance group though.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2019

    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    The warrior is a walking stat totem for his group and provides a ton of other perks while still doing the damage of a power reaper/herald but with far superior utility.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

  • Genuinetheo.6591Genuinetheo.6591 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2019

    @stone cold.8609 said:
    Even with the recent changes to banners, for high end PvE you are only really wanted because of the buffs that your banners bring. Hence, warriors are expected to equip them and use them on cool down. You can take either a core power build (axe/axe + mace/mace) for ok damage and good cc, or a condition berserker elite build (sw/torch + LB) with a bit better damage over longer fights and good cc.

    I'm not certain if it is still meta, but when I was running T4s a lot power core BS warriors were desired in the group.

    Moreso over condition warriors because fights generally don't last very long. Conditions have this ramp up time that I believe simply takes too long to outclass Power DPS for a Warrior in fractals. You might even make the fractal take longer to complete running a condition Warrior.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

    Cu bs does shiton of cc, and decent dps. Druids spirits can be taken by sb, only big lose is glyph of empowerment. But alternative to chrono druid are rev + FB which Btoh does way more dmg. I still think it's not worth to swap out 1 druid cuz it's boosted, but bs is way more

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

    Spirits are not druid exclusive, a soulbeast can bring those. and FB+renegade are a superior group DPS comp by miles even figuring in spirits.

    There is no alternative to BS warrior, that simple. No one can replace them.

    In fractals this is even more evident because cyclone axe+eviscerate burst on breakbar bonus makes banner warrior burst crazy and only rivaled by elementalist and guardian/holo burst.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

    Spirits are not druid exclusive, a soulbeast can bring those

    What? Banners can be used by berserker, core warrior, and spellbreaker, exact same setup as spirits.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

    Spirits are not druid exclusive, a soulbeast can bring those

    What? Banners can be used by berserker, core warrior, and spellbreaker, exact same setup as spirits.

    Exactly hence why warrior cant be replaced, the entier point of this whole thread.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's the most broken and irreplaceable offensive support spec in instanced PvE. You can replace a druid, you can replace a chrono, you cannot replace a BS warrior and the warrior does significantly more personal DPS than chrono and druid to boot.

    If you consider druid replaceable, then I don't understand how you don't consider warrior replaceable. If you don't consider spirits+spotter+GOE mandatory, why do you consider banners mandatory?

    Spirits are not druid exclusive, a soulbeast can bring those

    What? Banners can be used by berserker, core warrior, and spellbreaker, exact same setup as spirits.

    It's almost as if you overlooked the fact that while you can replace a healer spot with another one and keep druid buffs, reducing the value of druid, there is no replacement for a banner warrior as all those fill a support DPS slot.

    And what's more, the team comp excluding a druid in favor of FB+Ren provides a greater DPS boost than the druid+chrono comp but there is no comp in which replacing the banner warrior yields similar or more DPS.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Exactly hence why warrior cant be replaced, the entier point of this whole thread.

    Ok, so your point is that druid can be replaced, but warrior can't. But your only saying to replace druid with another ranger build. At the end of the day your still locked into bringing a ranger with spirits just like your locked into bringing a warrior with banners. The only difference is, you don't consider warrior's healer builds viable .

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's almost as if you overlooked the fact that while you can replace a healer spot with another one and keep druid buffs, reducing the value of druid, there is no replacement for a banner warrior as all those fill a support DPS slot.

    So hold on, your happy that we can replace one ranger healer build (with spirits) with another ranger dps build (with spirits). But your unhappy we don't have that option for warrior and their banners. So if warrior had a viable healer build which also brought the 2 banners, you would be happy with that?

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Exactly hence why warrior cant be replaced, the entier point of this whole thread.

    Ok, so your point is that druid can be replaced, but warrior can't. But your only saying to replace druid with another ranger build. At the end of the day your still locked into bringing a ranger with spirits just like your locked into bringing a warrior with banners. The only difference is, you don't consider warrior's healer builds viable .

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    It's almost as if you overlooked the fact that while you can replace a healer spot with another one and keep druid buffs, reducing the value of druid, there is no replacement for a banner warrior as all those fill a support DPS slot.

    So hold on, your happy that we can replace one ranger healer build (with spirits) with another ranger dps build (with spirits). But your unhappy we don't have that option for warrior and their banners. So if warrior had a viable healer build which also brought the 2 banners, you would be happy with that?

    Partially, because it would create further raid comp flexibility by allowing a group to bring something other than druid and the banner warrior's slot would be opened up for dps.

    But the goal would be to introduce an alternative to banners altogether, that is a build that provided comparable offensive steroids to a group while doing the same or better DPS than banner warrior does (just as FB+Renegade offer similar healing and equal or better dps as an alternative).

    But there is no spec in this game that comes even remotely close to raid DPS contribution as banner warrior does.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    nowadays very hard find ps war for cms party whit no heal setup.
    At all ps war non exists on charts.
    Also condi bs it not welcome for cms too.
    Mostly user pdps + banner core war, and who ready change traits to spb if pain and gain insta come.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2019

    @Zenith.7301 said

    But there is no spec in this game that comes even remotely close to raid DPS contribution as banner warrior does.

    TLDR: No, Druid contributes more because 25 might is a huge effect.

    I find this claim highly dubious, I think druid probably contributes the most raid dps. So lets test it. As a first calcuation, I am going to approximate the smaller and more complicated effects: how much dps warrior/druid contribute to chrono and how much dps warrior/druid contributes to druid/warrior. First we need a consistent way to measure the influence of the buffs. For this, Im going to use a standard staff daredevil build. I will just auto attack, that way my own ability to perform the rotation does not come into play. Now, since a large part of the warriors dps contribution comes from its own personal dps, we will need to use this modifier to scale the benchmarks we make here, and then add all the dps contributions together.

    SC's staff daredevil benchmark: 34,010 (https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/thief/daredevil/power/)
    Same build and buffs (technically the video uses all boons rather than standard 7, but it doesn't matter for theif) but only auto attacking: 22489
    log : (https://dps.report/MD3y-20190402-134843_golem)
    rotation_scaler = 1.5122

    Now, an additional complexity to all this is that spotter and empower allies are 5 man buffs. So we need to get the numbers for the players outside of the warrior/druid parties. Now, whoever is in the warriors party is not in the druids, and vice versa. So we perform the following tests:

    In druids party (warrior in squad)
    same test with spotter/spirits/banners/25 might without EA: 22016
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 33293
    log: (https://dps.report/WKIU-20190402-141820_golem)

    in warriors party (druid in squad)
    same test with EA/spirits/banners/25 might without spotter: 22096
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 33413
    log: (https://dps.report/uhL8-20190402-142449_golem)

    Ok, so now we have the baseline dps that our thief can hit on golem in either the warrior or the druid party. Now, lets see what happens if there is no warrior:

    In druids party (no warrior in squad)
    same test with spotter/spirits/25 might without EA/banners: 20202
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 30549
    log:(https://dps.report/8vR5-20190402-143333_golem)

    Not in druids party(no warrior in squad)
    same test with spirits/25 might without spotter/EA/banners: 19291
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 29171
    log(https://dps.report/8vs5-20190402-143856_golem)

    Ok so now lets calculate the warriors dps contribution (again approximating the dps contributed to chronos and the druid):
    warrior dps (sc benchmark): 25427 (note condi warrior doesn't bring EA, so I'm using the power warrior benchmark + EA)
    3 dps in party: (33413-29171) * 3 = 12726
    3 dps out of party: (33293-30549)*3 = 8232
    2 chronos: 1 is in party, 1 is out. A full off chrono can do about half of what a dps does. If we assume the tank is tanking with low toughness, then I think its fair to approximate this contribution as being equal to a single dps players contribution, averaged between the 2 parties, giving us: 3493.
    1 druid (typically a healer): very close to 0, so I'm going to approximate it as 0.

    Total warrior dps contribution: 49878
    Keep in mind, this is a fully maxed dps squad. It is significantly above the dps of a single daredevil which we have as 34010

    Ok now we have to repeat this process for druid buffs (spirits,spotter and 25 might).

    In warriors party (no druid in squad)
    same test with EA/banners no spotter/spirits/25 might:16839
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 25463
    log:( https://dps.report/5bLI-20190402-151603_golem)

    Not in warriors party (no druid in squad)
    same test with banners no spotter/EA/Spirits/25 might: 16321
    scaled by rotation_scaler: 24680
    log(https://dps.report/8xV3-20190402-152127_golem)

    Ok so now lets calculate the druids dps contribution (again approximating the dps contributed to chronos and the warrior):
    Druid dps (typically a healer): very close to 0, so I’m going to approximate it as 0.
    3 dps in party: (33293 – 24680)3 = 25839
    3 dps out of party: (33413 -25463)
    3 = 23850
    2 chronos: 1 is in party, 1 is out. A full off chrono can do about half of what a dps does. If we assume the tank is tanking with low toughness, then I think its fair to approximate this contribution as being equal to a single dps players contribution, averaged between the 2 parties, giving us: 8281
    1 warrior: Remember we are using power warrior in this comparison. Using the same method as the druid we use dps out of party * (dps warrior/dps thief) = 7950 * (25427/34010) = 5943.

    Total druid dps contribution: 63913
    Keep in mind, this is a fully maxed dps squad. It is significantly above the dps of a single daredevil which we have as 34010

    Summary: In a 10 man squad, Druid contributes more dps than warrior. This is largely because druid can upkeep 25 might on 10 people. Your claim was false.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2019

    Why are you attributing 25 might stacking solely to druid when PS warrior can do the same and still bring banners? An ele with fire field alone is providing 12 might stacks permanently and fury throughout and those 25 stacks can also be provided by the competitive FB/Ren comp, which makes it not a druid exclusive utility....

    You can have no druid and have 25 might stacks on everyone at 100% uptime, in fact the FB/Ren comp is even superior to it.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2019

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    Why are you attributing 25 might stacking solely to druid when PS warrior can do the same and still bring banners? An ele with fire field alone is providing 12 might stacks permanently and fury throughout and those 25 stacks can also be provided by the competitive FB/Ren comp, which makes it not a druid exclusive utility....

    You can have no druid and have 25 might stacks on everyone at 100% uptime, in fact the FB/Ren comp is even superior to it.

    It doesn't matter if might is druid exclusive. Might has to come from somewhere, and currently it comes from druid in a standard comp. Can druid provide 10 people 25 might? Yes it can. Can warrior? No it can not, it can definitely provide it to 5 people, the only way warrior even has a chance of getting 25 on 10 people is some comp like 4-5-1, and then the warrior is going to have terrible boon uptime.

    Your words were, "But there is no spec in this game that comes even remotely close to raid DPS contribution as banner warrior does.". And yet, that isn't true. What is true, is that you keep making statements without a shred of evidence. First you said warrior was the biggest dps contributor, which was wildly inaccurate. Then you told us that Ren/FB is the better comp, but where are your numbers? Or some record videos? Any evidence at all to back up your claims?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    Why are you attributing 25 might stacking solely to druid when PS warrior can do the same and still bring banners? An ele with fire field alone is providing 12 might stacks permanently and fury throughout and those 25 stacks can also be provided by the competitive FB/Ren comp, which makes it not a druid exclusive utility....

    You can have no druid and have 25 might stacks on everyone at 100% uptime, in fact the FB/Ren comp is even superior to it.

    It doesn't matter if might is druid exclusive. Might has to come from somewhere, and currently it comes from druid in a standard comp. Can druid provide 10 people 25 might? Yes it can. Can warrior? No it can not, it can definitely provide it to 5 people, the only way warrior even has a chance of getting 25 on 10 people is some comp like 4-5-1, and then the warrior is going to have terrible boon uptime.

    Your words were, "But there is no spec in this game that comes even remotely close to raid DPS contribution as banner warrior does.". And yet, that isn't true. What is true, is that you keep making statements without a shred of evidence. First you said warrior was the biggest dps contributor, which was wildly inaccurate. Then you told us that Ren/FB is the better comp, but where are your numbers? Or some record videos? Any evidence at all to back up your claims?

    Tempest can provide 25 might 10 man. These are the end times for MUST Be a druid in squad. It's still to good thanks to utilities to pass on, but it's not mandatory anymore. For example chrono, tempest, fb, rev. Spirits can be bring by sb easily, so no need to play this kitten spec

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Again we have more claims about what is meta, without evidence. If these new comps are so much better, where are the record videos? Surely there should be a record video on MO at least?

    I'm not saying they aren't better, they may very well be. But until you actually post some logs or videos or at least a theoretical breakdown, I think your being hasty to claim it is the new meta.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

    How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

    How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

    I guess that is fractal composition...
    Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    I guess that is fractal composition...
    Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

    Could be, classes that do 10 man boons like druid are weaker in 5 man content. Anet actually has been making efforts to balance things. Its just annoying to have to run very different comps in fractals and raids.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    I guess that is fractal composition...
    Quickness is from fb, alacrity from ren, fury from firebrand and mighr from warrior, ren and quickbrand and maybe vulture stance.

    Could be, classes that do 10 man boons like druid are weaker in 5 man content. Anet actually has been making efforts to balance things. Its just annoying to have to run very different comps in fractals and raids.

    Or fun since its something diferent.
    I stopped playing fractals because it was too frustrating (and slipery slope + social ackwardness makes me sick) but now i play sometimes again as firebrand or ren instead of chrono that i play in raids

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    Or fun since its something diferent.
    I stopped playing fractals because it was too frustrating (and slipery slope + social ackwardness makes me sick) but now i play sometimes again as firebrand or ren instead of chrono that i play in raids

    It is fun to play other stuff, I just did fractals yesterday as a power reaper, but I'd rather things just be balanced and easily modular so you have a choice at both. For example chrono is the only one class that can do both alacrity and quickness. Which means dropping a chrono complicates everything else as you have to change your healer, but you still want spirits so now you have to restrict your dps. Ugh, as an organizer its a huge pain the kitten.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

    How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

    5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

    not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

    that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeasts
    perma quickness
    perma alacrity
    perma fury
    perma 25 might
    banners
    empower allies

    and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

    the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

    How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

    5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

    not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

    that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeasts
    perma quickness
    perma alacrity
    perma fury
    perma 25 might
    banners
    empower allies

    and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

    the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

    Ok now I understand, I thought you were telling me the 5 fixed class for a 10 man squad, as I understand it to be the case that rev can do 10 man alacrity. Yeah for 5 man I'm sure that druid-chrono isn't great, both of those classes specialize in 10 man buffing. In 5 man content, your effectively cutting their utility in half.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    harrier rev, power quickbrand, power bs, power soulbeast, power chrono

    ^ my to-gp set-up that provides pretty much antyhing you need

    still mesmer utility in skips/portals
    still a spirit with soulbeast, with minimal dps loss
    still 25 might
    still prot upkeep
    still quickness/alacrity/fury

    reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand

    dps-wise alot higher then druid+chrono

    How are you getting 10 man quickness? Power chrono doesn't give it, or are you saying standard boon chrono? Firebrand doesn't do 10 man quickness

    5 specs, for 5-man content and the power chrono is an actual power chrono

    not sure if you could run this same party set-up twice and have a valid raid comp, would have to test that out.

    that would be 2 spirits then with 2 soulbeasts
    perma quickness
    perma alacrity
    perma fury
    perma 25 might
    banners
    empower allies

    and pretty much all the "reflects, resistance, aegis, stability on demand".

    the second bs should be swapped out for an dps, weaver/holo most likely

    Ok now I understand, I thought you were telling me the 5 fixed class for a 10 man squad, as I understand it to be the case that rev can do 10 man alacrity. Yeah for 5 man I'm sure that druid-chrono isn't great, both of those classes specialize in 10 man buffing. In 5 man content, your effectively cutting their utility in half.

    in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groups
    downside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groups
    downside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

    By rotate you mean change sub groups mid fight? Anet nerfed that out of the game years ago when it was meta for chrono to do that with the very old style SOI + chronomancer runes set up. Whatever group you start in, for boon application purposes your stuck in for the whole fight. 4-5-1 maybe can do something, That nerf was why 4-4-2 was meta before mirror comp if my memory is right.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    in theory a fb should be ablt to provide 10 men perma quickness, but the groups should be split, and not stacked. fb just needs to rotate groups
    downside, you'll lose out on other boons/effects

    By rotate you mean change sub groups mid fight? Anet nerfed that out of the game years ago when it was meta for chrono to do that with the very old style SOI + chronomancer runes set up. Whatever group you start in, for boon application purposes your stuck in for the whole fight. 4-5-1 maybe can do something, That nerf was why 4-4-2 was meta before mirror comp if my memory is right.

    should still be possible depending on radius
    skills prioritize group memebers first, then randoms..but if there are no group members in range, the prioty passes on "who is the closest" on large hitboxes this should still be doable, but is it worth it?

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

    Because what I'm seeing is:

    -liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

    -stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

    -finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

    For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

    Because what I'm seeing is:

    -liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

    -stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

    -finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

    For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

    165% isn't that bad, not 200% but getting close.

    another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weaver
    tempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss (+3sec boon duration every 20 seconds)

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR7dnsADFBjVBBGCBEEhl4BzaDkvSBVBgGQ9a/lOT7pA-jBCBQBFZ/BAr+TAuIA+V3AAeAAH7IAIYlfDWJYAgDg1XPzbew5nf+5nfeXf+5nf+5nf+5nfepAiYZE-e

    what about a build like this? potent haste gives 4.75 secs quickness on it's own with 9.5 sec cooldown (effective cooldown would be somewhere at +- 6.75 to 7 seconds,

    • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.
      ^ lets round up at say potent haste is 10 sec instead of 9.5
      4.75 sec quickness to 1 group every +- 7 seconds.

    heal mantra gives 3 sec quickness, same 9.5 sec cd so lets round up again to 10 secs

    • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.

    quickness mantra + heal mantra is 7.75 sec quickness, on 7 sec cooldown(less, but we rounded up to above) to 1 group.
    feel my wrath is 15.5 sec quickness on 45 sec cooldown (effective cooldown with permanent alacrity is 30 seconds if i calculated right)

    start with feel my wrath on group 1 (15.5 sec quickness)
    move to group 2 heal mantra + quickness mantra x2 (12.5 sec quickness)
    back to group 1, keep the 7 sec cooldown for heal mantra in mind that we used on group 2. use heal mantra (15.5-7-x(whatever time u needed to reposition) +3)
    then it would be a matter of timing mantra cd's/elite to rotate

    could run stalward speed, and elite mantra
    group 1 gets heal mantra (aegis + quickness) for 7.5 sec quickness on 8 sec cd (with permanent alac)
    group 2 gets quickness mantra x2 for 9.5 sec quickness on 8 sec(per charge) cooldown (with permanent alac)
    back to group 1 heal mantra for another 7.5 sec quickness on 8 sec cd
    back to group 2 quickness mantra x1 for 4.75 sec quickness

    and this would go on and on.
    this is just speculating, i haven't ever tested this in ana ctual game

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Do you have a link to the theory showing firebrand can produce enough quickness for 10 people?

    Because what I'm seeing is:

    -liberators vow proc is locked to the recharge speed of heal mantra (12 seconds). Factor in alacrity with 100% boon duration we get 42% coverage.

    -stalwart speed, assume we proc it off cool down using a mixture of elite mantra (stab) and heal mantra (aegis), factor in alacrity and 100% boon duration, we get 71% coverage.

    -finally the quickness mantra proc off cd with alacrity gives: 52% coverage.

    For a total of 165%, but you need 200% to actually cover 10 people. And I've already been generous assuming you can proc stalwart speed off cool down. Is there a 4th source of quickness I'm not seeing?

    you are forgetting "feel my wrath"

    double post

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are forgetting "feel my wrath" which imo is worth taking it over elite mantra

    another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weaver
    tempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss

    Well feel my wrath will give you 44% coverage. Putting you just barely at 200%. But then I doubt your going to proc stalwart speed off cd without the elite mantra involved. If we assume its locked to your heal mantra, it drops down to 41% from 71%. So your losing 30% to gain 44%, so yeah, still more quickness, no stab though which is too bad. Seems still a bit shy of 200, but it all depends on how often you can proc that trait.

    Either way, having to run from one subgroup to another sounds like cancer.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are forgetting "feel my wrath" which imo is worth taking it over elite mantra

    another option would be to replace the duplicate bs, with a power tempest instead of a weaver
    tempest has to switch to earth atunement anyway in their rotations, they can cast warhorn 4 to prolongue boons (including quickness) by another 3 seconds with minimal (if any) dps loss

    Well feel my wrath will give you 44% coverage. Putting you just barely at 200%. But then I doubt your going to proc stalwart speed off cd without the elite mantra involved. If we assume its locked to your heal mantra, it drops down to 41% from 71%. So your losing 30% to gain 44%, so yeah, still more quickness, no stab though which is too bad. Seems still a bit shy of 200, but it all depends on how often you can proc that trait.

    Either way, having to run from one subgroup to another sounds like cancer.

    i edited my post, the moment u replied

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.

    This is inaccurate. I've already accounted for alacrity correctly by dividing cool downs by 1.25. You are dividing by 1.5 which is only true for chronomancers running the improved alacrity trait. Its actually a very crucial miscalculation which greatly effects your predicted quickness uptime.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    • For example, a skill with a 10 second cooldown will recharge in about 6.67 seconds, as long as you're under the effect of alacrity for the whole time.

    This is inaccurate. I've already accounted for alacrity correctly by dividing cool downs by 1.25. You are dividing by 1.5 which is only true for chronomancers running the improved alacrity trait. Its actually a very crucial miscalculation which greatly effects your predicted quickness uptime.

    you are correct, i have honnestly no idea why i did mix them up
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

    i was also thinking about changing the set-up a bit (so no more duplicate groups like renegade which covers alacrity alone, don't need a second one)

    group 1:
    -harrier renegade (10 man alacrity)
    -power quickbrand (5 man quickness)
    -power bs (10 man banners)
    -power soulbeast ( frost spirit)
    -power chrono (pulls/general mesmer utility if needed)

    group 2:
    -harrier fb (5 man quickness/fury/all the fb tools)
    -boon tempest (10 man fury and might)
    -power soulbeast (sun/storm spirit up for debate)
    -power tempest
    -power tempest

    provides pretty much everything i believe, while having a (very) high squad dps

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    I'm sure that setup is fine, whether or not it is optimal, well of course that requires testing, and actual evidence. One thing I will point out, it looks like your locking down the following just to maintain boons/buffs: 2 firebrands,1 renegade, 1 soul beast, 1 warrior, 1 tempest. That leaves only 4 spots to really play with. Choosing the correct dps classes for the correct fight is essential for obtaining highest possible dps. For example, at soulless horror and largos, condi mirage is so dominant, I would expect that whichever comp can compress roles the most to bring the most of them will have the highest dps.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I'm sure that setup is fine, whether or not it is optimal, well of course that requires testing, and actual evidence. One thing I will point out, it looks like your locking down the following just to maintain boons/buffs: 2 firebrands,1 renegade, 1 soul beast, 1 warrior, 1 tempest. That leaves only 4 spots to really play with. Choosing the correct dps classes for the correct fight is essential for obtaining highest possible dps. For example, at soulless horror and largos, condi mirage is so dominant, I would expect that whichever comp can compress roles the most to bring the most of them will have the highest dps.

    isn't condi mirage nerfed and now more or less even with condi renegade? or am i outdated

    and what you say is 100% correct, but howany people can play multiple classes (and play it good) i tried pugging, and there it becomes clear fast :pensive:

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    isn't condi mirage nerfed and now more or less even with condi renegade? or am i outdated

    and what you say is 100% correct, but howany people can play multiple classes (and play it good) i tried pugging, and there it becomes clear fast :pensive:

    It did get nerfed, in particular the scepter build is considered dead by sc. As far as I know axe mirage is still the go to pick for cairn,matt,largos,sh. If your concern is pugging 2 chronos- 2 druids - 1 bs is definitely going to be easier to fill with pugs.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    Still a slave.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior is fine where its at. If someone tells you otherwise they are just narrow minded misinforned individuals.