Guardians and other classes

praqtos.9035 · April 30, 2019

@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:A lot of guardians seem to compare Revenants burst capabilities with what Guardian used to be able to do but got nerfed for it. Revenants burst is possible to avoid even if you didn't see the Revenant coming. This is because both shadowsteps do barely any damage on the initial hit, deathstrike is a two part skill meaning the skill that does high damage will only activate when you hit your shadowstep, making it possible to dodge the burst.
The problem is how Guardian could precast very hard hitting skills and mid-cast shadowstep to an opponent resulting in insane damage instantly without being able to react. Besides the nerfed Deadeye no class can do this. I've gotten spiked by power mesmers before in a similar matter but theres not many running around like that so the build probably isn't too good to be viable.
Any class or build that can kill someone quicker than allows you to react is pretty busted. Right now I don't feel like this sudden one shot is happening anymore wich is for the better.

The only way for a guardian to actually kill something is with one shots though. Due to the immense lack of mobility and over reliance on blocks and active defense. We are currently at a point where a warrior dodge roll is more threatening than the highest hitting hammer skill, which is traited for even more damage through both radiance and virtues.

I don't complain about them removing the one shot factor (no one above 1700 got one shot anyway). I just wish we got something in return for the continued nerfs to just about every aspect of the builds.

You're traited for it but are yo also geared for it? Afaik A lot of Guardians ran Valkyrie wich isn't exactly a high dmg amulet. All these other build that do high power damage run Berzerker or Marauder amulets for maximum damage.

You can't expect to do dps damage if you're not using dps amulets or runes

Guardians used to cap (close to anyway) crit chance with Valkyrie amulet, while having 900 ferocity (same as berserker). So that damage equaled what they would have had if they ran berserker.Now, with the nerf you're forced into Marauder to crit cap, which not only loses you 3.5k life. But also around 450 ferocity.

The damage on the weapon skills also got nerfed. The damage on the traits too, smiters boon (the irony) and glacial hammer both lost pretty much all their damage.

I think it's fair that you actually need a crit amulet in order to be able to crit, and not have a trait wich allows you to completely ignore precision on an amulet. Now guardians are equal in that they need the right amulet for the role they want to have. However I do not say that I feel like Guardian is in a right spot right now, just saying that's it good what they did.It was good what they did .... But they left rev/holo/soulbaest etc untouched because being busy with nerfing mesmer into oblivion :)

Rev doesn't need nerfs, don't even have much problems with holo's and soulbeast as of late either

Let me guess rev doesnt need nerfs only because you main it ? Makes sense

Let me guess Rev needs nerfs because you're bad against it? Makes sense

Learn what skills Revenant has and the patterns it will be used in and you won't have any trouble anymoreI know revenant skills way better than you do. Everyone who is left and could be considered "top players" that left know that rev is a bull*t

That's a big assumption you made there kiddo. So you're telling me that Rev has been OP for longer than a year yet forums are not flooded with "nerf rev" threads? If Rev is so OP why do I see so many people being trash at Revenant? Revenant is one of the few classes that can't carry a player by its build and it shows.

PS: Can you quote all these "top players" saying Revenant is broken? Because afaik I've heard players like Sindrener say the opposite.You will see kiddo only in the mirror reflection ;)If you want to find it look yourself,cba to look at threads where people post it.The only difference between revenant and braindead faceroll builds like scrapper you have to invest more time in it for better results as it skill ceiling is higher. If revenant would be BAD or need buffs as your Sindrener say we wouldnt see them in any AT which is always have at least 1, sometimes 2 if you have 2 people that play it well

Stand The Wall.6987 · April 30, 2019

that's a pretty nasty war dodge lol.what if judges intervention had 1sec after cast, and disabled pre casting hammer/gs 2? you would still be able to pre cast shield of wrath. I feel like all the up front instant damage from the teleport was what was broke. maybe with a JI nerf, plus the righteous instincts nerf, burst guard could see some love.more then a damage buff to mighty blow, I would like a range increase and cast time decrease.

Balsa.3951 · April 30, 2019

I’m ok with nerfs on one shot builds they are no fun but than take it away from everyone

Spartacus.3192 · April 30, 2019

ANET really doesnt want core classes to be good in the same way they nerfed HOT classes (besides Rev) just before POF came out and of course will nerf POF classes just before the next expac.

Reason = Money.

They cant make money if you can just use the free to play core game and be super competitive. Ignore all that rubbish about elite specs just being a different way to play.

ANET hasnt quite figured out how to nerf Core War properly and so its still pretty decent.

Spartacus.3192 · April 30, 2019

@otto.5684 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:Righteous Instincts should be unnerfed. It was a bad change that objectively lessened build diversity and representation.Why should they reintroduce busted traits? How about they tone down powercreep brough with PoF/HoT? No? Okay

I agree, but that is not what Anet is doing. Instead they are selectively (intentionally or not) removing builds for specific classes. Holo, soul beast and SB are the biggest offenders by a mile and yet we’re not touched or received tiny nerfs so far.

Guardian issues go beyond hammer and RI. Guardian by design is still sitting in 2012, with the exception of FB. Low HP pool and slow cuz it has blocks and heals. But in terms of damage avoidance nowadays, it is only ahead of necro. And damage avoidance was the name of the game for guardian sustainability back in the day.

RI was a bandaid that brought guardian to PoF power creep level, by resolving the HP pool issue and providing a high damage output, which was the only deterrent against focus fire. The RI nerf just put guardian builds (anything but FB) completely outside the meta.

In addition, the low HP pool made sense when the highest damage that can be pulled in 1-2 sec was around 10k. Most power classes now can dish 20-30k within that timeframe. And this applies to guardian, ele and thief. All three had issues being competitive, primarily due to the HP pool.

Guardian issues cannot be resolved with bandaids. Major design reworks are needed.

Agreed. Guardian thematically was lots of blocks/aegis etc with low HP back in 2012.Fast fwd to 2019 everyone and his mother has unblockables and much higher damage completely obliterating a guardian's main source of damage mitigation.

otto.5684 · April 30, 2019

@Exedore.6320 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"praqtos.9035" said:Why should they reintroduce busted traits? How about they tone down powercreep brough with PoF/HoT? No? Okay

Power Creep is less of a concern than a healthier vibrant meta overall. It's generally better to buff under represented characters than nerf over represented characters unless they're outright breaking the game from a player psychology perspective.You

completely

missed the point of the video you linked. The title of "Buff > Nerf" is extremely misleading, as that's not the narrative of the video at all. If that's what you're basing your conclusion on, you need to watch it again. But to summarize, the video explains that the end goal is to

make a game fun through adding more options

. A lot of that focuses on risk vs. reward, i.e. something that is harder or less safe to execute gives more reward upon successful execution.

Power creep is the opposite of that. Power creep is effectively buffing to a bad state, just like nerfing too much gets you to a bad state. Using your video example, Street Fighter II Rainbow is what GW2 is becoming. Things are ridiculous over the top. It has some interesting ideas, but just aren't fun to play against after the initial "wow" factor. The way you fix absurd power creep is to keep some of the good ideas but add proper risk vs. reward.

GW2 needs nerfs to the power creep far more than we need buffs to bland things. We can deal with half the skills being useless for a while as long as the rest is fun and interesting. AOE death in under 2 seconds (lol arc divider) or evade "forever" isn't fun. How do you buff in order to fix that? The answer is that you have to nerf over-performing abilities.

Bottom line:Guardian is in a decent state and arguably needs some small nerfs. However, other things need pretty hefty nerfs.

Guardian in a decent place?! Ya FB is outperforming. But how about core and DH? Do not try to sell me that guardian power builds are remotely close to meta builds like herald, holo, SB, soul beast or even reaper. It was before RI nerf were it lost 15% damage and another 10-15% in sustainability.

Also, balance is based on what other meta builds can do now not what we hope they will do in a year from now.

Snellibee.2761 · April 30, 2019

@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:A lot of guardians seem to compare Revenants burst capabilities with what Guardian used to be able to do but got nerfed for it. Revenants burst is possible to avoid even if you didn't see the Revenant coming. This is because both shadowsteps do barely any damage on the initial hit, deathstrike is a two part skill meaning the skill that does high damage will only activate when you hit your shadowstep, making it possible to dodge the burst.
The problem is how Guardian could precast very hard hitting skills and mid-cast shadowstep to an opponent resulting in insane damage instantly without being able to react. Besides the nerfed Deadeye no class can do this. I've gotten spiked by power mesmers before in a similar matter but theres not many running around like that so the build probably isn't too good to be viable.
Any class or build that can kill someone quicker than allows you to react is pretty busted. Right now I don't feel like this sudden one shot is happening anymore wich is for the better.