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When will this game update engine to DX12?


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People have been posting about it for a while and it's most likely not going to happen since that would take a lot of time and resources to do so, especially with their current engine. Time better spent on developing content. There is a DX12 "add-on" you can find that may, I stress, MAY help, but YMMV. Just do a simple search and you'll find it.

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@Blocki.4931 said:Maybe it's not completely out of question, but highly unlikely as of now. Though wouldn't it also mean that people with older rigs would get screwed over? Wouldn't be the best decision.

Well, DX12 can work on Windows 7 now (since they backported it to Win 7 recently), but since Win 7 is going to be phased out soon, yeah. DX12 would not be ideal for those that will still be running Windows 7. Not sure about Mac folks, but for Linux folks, DX12 seems to be working, so it would work regardless of whether is stayed as DX9 or moved to DX12. If they gave you the option to pick which DX to render with, that would make it work on older and newer machines, again, assuming they did do that sort of thing, but probably won't happen.

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@Blocki.4931 said:Maybe it's not completely out of question, but highly unlikely as of now. Though wouldn't it also mean that people with older rigs would get screwed over?Not only older rigs, but also older systems. Not everyone's running win 10, you know.Anet would need to support 2 separate clients, which would be a lot of trouble, for little gain.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Maybe it's not completely out of question, but highly unlikely as of now. Though wouldn't it also mean that people with older rigs would get screwed over?Not only older rigs, but also older systems. Not everyone's running win 10, you know.Anet would need to support 2 separate clients, which would be a lot of trouble, for little gain.

Yeah I've had those terms synonymously in my head. But on that note I do forget that not everybody has w10, since I switched right at the start to save myself the trouble of reinstalling my broken beyond belief w7 :sunglasses: don't judge

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@Kanok.3027 said:

Well, DX12 can work on Windows 7 now (since they backported it to Win 7 recently)Not fully, and not for every game. It's not a full backport - it's a deal with Blizzard to make WoW dx12 client run on win7, that can potentially be extended to other developers that will decide to work on it with them. So, basically, we're not talking about dx12 on win 7. We're talking about dx12 emulation patches (with limited dx12 functionality) for specific games. Think d912pxy, but in reverse.

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probably never.

old software (if compatible) usually runs lightning fast on a new hardware.

and try running a new software on an old hardware (assuming that the software is still compatible). it takes time akin to the span from now till when the dinosaurs roam the earth.

not to mention the "overlay" operating system.

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@hunkamania.7561 said:Serious question since the game is sub optimal in performance for large scale pve and pvp.

Not necessary since the game is CPU intensive and not GPU intensive...as in, most functions are done with the CPU, the GPU hardly does anything, and ArenaNet themselves have stated several times that the benefits are far outweighed by the drawbacks.

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@kharmin.7683 said:Yeah, it would take a complete re-coding of the entire game. Check the forums search function as this has been discussed quite a bit.

Id hesitate to say the ENTIRE game because DX12 is essentially an api for graphics and sound. But it would require an overhall in the rendering pipeline. Somthing that really isnt worth the effort depending on how anet has built up and customised their renderer. Im no expert on DirectX but an upgrade would likely offer some minor rendering improvements and a few new features that in all honestly are likely to not be used by anet due to the nature of backwards compatability. I cant be sure if I remember correctly and I dont know were the quote is but I recall a member of the anet team previously stated that them upgrading to a higher version of DX would offer little gain. It was that or the thread was about multithreading, eh.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, DX12 can work on Windows 7 now (since they backported it to Win 7 recently)Not fully, and not for every game. It's not a full backport - it's a deal with Blizzard to make WoW dx12 client run on win7, that can potentially be extended to other developers
that will decide to work on it with them
. So, basically, we're not talking about dx12 on win 7. We're talking about dx12 emulation patches (with limited dx12 functionality) for specific games. Think d912pxy, but in reverse.

As Windows 7 support ends in 9 months in January 2020 Blizzard is lucky they actually did this recently and I highly doubt they will do it for any other game.

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@Obtena.7952 said:Hopefully never, because it's a low value proposition to players. I've played a game that upgraded their DX once ... it was fun for about 5 minutes ... then it was the same game all over again.

Low value? The d912pxy addon alone that's basically wrapping dx9 to dx12 gives a 30 - 40% frame rate boost. That's not a low value. I call 30%+ frame improvement pretty dang significant bump up in value.

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@FONGORE.7410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Hopefully never, because it's a low value proposition to players. I've played a game that upgraded their DX once ... it was fun for about 5 minutes ... then it was the same game all over again.

Low value? The d912pxy addon alone that's basically wrapping dx9 to dx12 gives a 30 - 40% frame rate boost. That's not a low value. I call 30%+ frame improvement pretty dang significant bump up in value.

Sure... 30%...

And when I tested it on both my PC's, I saw roughly half that or lower depending on which PC.

Will you see a performance boost? Sure. Will it be as large as people are claiming? No.

Come to think of it, giving a percentage boost when nobody shares the same baseline is misleading. If I was getting 2 FPS during world bosses and now get 10 FPS with it, that's like a 500% performance increase! Would it be accurate to say that everyone would see that? Would that increase really be significant when it comes to performance? Am I going to notice the difference between 2FPS and 10FPS?

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Sorry about the dx12 thing i should have just asked when will Anet optimize the game so it doesn't run like garbage in 2019. The frames keep dropping every year with new sparkles added to the game. Take for instance the drops you get that scroll on the right side of your screen.. That actually lowers frames there should be an option to turn that off so we can get some extra frames.

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@hunkamania.7561 said:Sorry about the dx12 thing i should have just asked when will Anet optimize the game so it doesn't run like garbage in 2019. The frames keep dropping every year with new sparkles added to the game. Take for instance the drops you get that scroll on the right side of your screen.. That actually lowers frames there should be an option to turn that off so we can get some extra frames.

the GPU side of the things are fine, the problem is on the CPU side of the things that requires massive amount of computation like model positioning, skills executions, damage counters, etc

anet just keep on adding more and more things that the CPU needs to calculate within seconds, it's really bloatedunless Anet figures out a way to properly separate calculation processes between CPUs to work in parallel, we are pretty much stuck like this; that said, multi-thread processing is difficult because of the computation is very serial

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@crepuscular.9047 said:

the GPU side of the things are fine, the problem is on the CPU side of the things that requires massive amount of computation like model positioning, skills executions, damage counters, etc

anet just keep on adding more and more things that the CPU needs to calculate within seconds, it's really bloatedunless Anet figures out a way to properly separate calculation processes between CPUs to work in parallel, we are pretty much stuck like this; that said, multi-thread processing is difficult because of the computation is very serial

You asume, this is cause they are incapable. I think that assumption is wrong and it is on purpose.GW1 and GW2 has always been friendly on low end computers. I can run the game reasonable well on computers running intel GPU. GW1 could run on almost every system capable of running windows XP. This has the advantage that you are inviting and open for almost all new players to the genre and even to online games. People who are new will not likely want to invest into a brand new computer that cost a 4 figure amount of money. So the filosophy seems to be that someone must be able to install the game and try it out, regardless of their system. That is why it is this way. They know it limits those with high end systems (I also have a high end rig), but it is a well thought through trade off and not a lack of skills

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Hopefully never, because it's a low value proposition to players. I've played a game that upgraded their DX once ... it was fun for about 5 minutes ... then it was the same game all over again.

Low value? The d912pxy addon alone that's basically wrapping dx9 to dx12 gives a 30 - 40% frame rate boost. That's not a low value. I call 30%+ frame improvement pretty dang significant bump up in value.

Sure... 30%...

And when I tested it on both my PC's, I saw roughly half that or lower depending on which PC.

Will you see a performance boost? Sure. Will it be as large as people are claiming? No.

Come to think of it, giving a percentage boost when nobody shares the same baseline is misleading. If I was getting 2 FPS during world bosses and now get 10 FPS with it, that's like a 500% performance increase! Would it be accurate to say that everyone would see that? Would that increase really be significant when it comes to performance? Am I going to notice the difference between 2FPS and 10FPS?

d912pxy mostly benefits low fps scenarios rather than your highest fps. It works wonderful for some, less so for others. On my system I had a major boost to minimal fps, and that's what's (most) important to me anyway.

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They will never do it for GW2, you might see it in GW3 however. GW was built on a custom engine, and when GW2 was being made, they decided to use the same engine and just modify it for the new game. I do not think they really understood the impacts of this on large scale PvE and PvP. The better option would have been one of the off the shelf 3rd party engines that many games use. However being that they already had an engine that only needed some changes, I can only assume this was a cost cutting decision as it required no new licensing costs. I think another reason for this was that it was DX9 and they had plans on releasing GW2 on console, which used a modified DX9 API at the time. The xbox 360 was also a 3 core system of the time, which I think over time they came to see that it just didn't have the CPU power to handle the game properly. I have seen this hinted at but never actually discussed in detail to the community.

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:Serious question since the game is sub optimal in performance for large scale pve and pvp.

Not necessary since the game is CPU intensive and not GPU intensive...as in, most functions are done with the CPU, the GPU hardly does anything, and ArenaNet themselves have stated several times that the benefits are far outweighed by the drawbacks.

The game is not CPU intensive, people misunderstand why the game is CPU limited, but not CPU intensive. DX9 does not allow for much multi-threading, its main render pipeline is not parallel and as such loads up only a single core, you can see this by looking at a detailed process manager of the game, where one process will stand out as it will use up all of a single CPU thread on it's own. As such, a CPU might only hit 30% load, and GPU only be at 40% load, but you are already capped in FPS, that is because this thread has peaked.

DX12 allows for less over head and better multi-threading, with that said, some processes can't be processed in parallel. It has been shown that systems that struggle with the game using the DX12 wrapper someone made for the game can boost FPS massively and that is from just a wrapper that has it's own over head and made by a single person who isn't getting paid for it. If this was done by anet in native support for DX12, I have no doubt the game would see large improvements.

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@FONGORE.7410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Hopefully never, because it's a low value proposition to players. I've played a game that upgraded their DX once ... it was fun for about 5 minutes ... then it was the same game all over again.

Low value? The d912pxy addon alone that's basically wrapping dx9 to dx12 gives a 30 - 40% frame rate boost. That's not a low value. I call 30%+ frame improvement pretty dang significant bump up in value.

It's a significant increase ... but the value to players is low.

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I don't know that updating the engine for DX11/12 is going to be worth ANet's time for this game, though it is a bit dubious not to support more recent versions when more and more titles don't run on DX9 at all anymore.

I'd suggest it's only something that ANet should look at if they're expecting GW2 to keep doing well for another 10 years. Otherwise, it depends on whether the newer DirectX versions offer any compelling features worth updating the engine for. But considering the current staffing situation, and the type of engine they were looking at for upcoming projects, it seems possible to me that they may not have staff who can make those kinds of changes to the GW2 engine at the present time.

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