It's time for the hammer, Anet!

[Megametzler.5729]

@melandru.3876 said:(...) (do they really need improvements tho (...)

Yes.*

Complaining about a situation and suggesting a solution goes hand in hand. I woud love to see general powercreep reduced - this absolutely includes ele. If cleanses and condi application get reduced, woven stride needs nerfs for example -, but I do not expect it to really happen. Talking about it definitely has a point though. I don't agree with all of it, but he just wanted to start a discussion about solutions. Everybody is free to add own ideas.

If you have better ideas for warrior, I'd love to hear them! :smile: Those are some I don't really agree with OP, for example.

*In the current meta, of course. Compared to many core (and HoT) builds, weaver is absolutely strong.

[Zenix.6198]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

you are biased towards powercreep, but surprise surprise powercreep is not only offensive (like OP thinks it is)bunker meta, is also powercreep, how fun was that right bunker this, bunker that needing 3 guys to kill 1 guy was deffo well balanced

the most sick aspect in the game currently is fb+scourge.every game (serious game not some gold rank trollfest) has 1 fb and 1 scourge on each side. somethimes even 2 scourges

the duelist has a wide range of options (spellbreaker, boonbeast, holo, scrapper, heraldthe decapper has 2 options (thief, and to some degree mesmer)

and isn't it obvious that in order to understand what is going on, you need to actually understand what's going on?

else the suggestion thread becomes a complain thread, which this exactly is.

"i play weaver, we in bad spot instead of trying to improve weaver(do they really need improvements tho, i have played together with cellofrag 2 weeks ago both in pvp and wvw as he was on our server link, and i can tell you that in actual good hands weaver is a monster, in bad hands...forum-material) they want to scale things down to average-player level

Okay, I think it has become clear that you didn't read my OP at all.Cause I also suggested scrapper nerfs (and not light ones at that) AND also said in my closing statement, that things like FB obviously need to get adressed as well in some form since TTK would obviously get increased with all those changes. I even admitted, that I just don't know how to go about those nerfs since guardian is my least played profession. My bad for not overstepping my competences, I guess.

Second of all, how about you stop trying to discredit me, by saying I have no idea what im talking about and branding me as a second-rate casual that doesn't know how the game works. As far as I can tell your name doesn't ring a bell either, but you don't see me running my mouth about your credibility.

[Quadox.7834]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

you are biased towards powercreep, but surprise surprise powercreep is not only offensive (like OP thinks it is)"Biased towards powercreep" is honestly one of the funniest things i've read on this forum, what the heck is that even supposed to mean.

OP doesn't think only offense is a problem: look at the engi and ranger suggestions for example. I agree with you that defense has also been powercrept as much, or more, as offense.

bunker meta, is also powercreep, how fun was that right bunker this, bunker that needing 3 guys to kill 1 guy was deffo well balancedNobody wants that, and nobody said they want that.

the most sick aspect in the game currently is fb+scourge.every game (serious game not some gold rank trollfest) has 1 fb and 1 scourge on each side. somethimes even 2 scourgesOk, great? So do you have any suggestions to add for nerfing those two?

the duelist has a wide range of options (spellbreaker, boonbeast, holo, scrapper, heraldHerald as a duelist? I mean sure you can play the hybrid build but practically noone does that.the decapper has 2 options (thief, and to some degree mesmer).I would call the role "roamer" and include rev, thief, power mirage. Decapping is more of a side-benefit (for example; thief is better at decapping but rev is better at teamfighting).

and isn't it obvious that in order to understand what is going on, you need to actually understand what's going on?Tautology, meaningless statement.

else the suggestion thread becomes a complain thread, which this exactly is.You are the one doing most of the complaining.

"i play weaver, we in bad spot instead of trying to improve weaver(do they really need improvements tho, i have played together with cellofrag 2 weeks ago both in pvp and wvw as he was on our server link, and i can tell you that in actual good hands weaver is a monster, in bad hands...forum-material) they want to scale things down to average-player level.He suggested nerfs to both weaver and core ele...Anyway, one question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal, etc) than weaver?

And again two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Has the game been powercrept?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

[melandru.3876]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

you are biased towards powercreep, but surprise surprise powercreep is not only offensive (like OP thinks it is)bunker meta, is also powercreep, how fun was that right bunker this, bunker that needing 3 guys to kill 1 guy was deffo well balanced

the most sick aspect in the game currently is fb+scourge.every game (serious game not some gold rank trollfest) has 1 fb and 1 scourge on each side. somethimes even 2 scourges

the duelist has a wide range of options (spellbreaker, boonbeast, holo, scrapper, heraldthe decapper has 2 options (thief, and to some degree mesmer)

and isn't it obvious that in order to understand what is going on, you need to actually understand what's going on?

else the suggestion thread becomes a complain thread, which this exactly is.

"i play weaver, we in bad spot instead of trying to improve weaver(do they really need improvements tho, i have played together with cellofrag 2 weeks ago both in pvp and wvw as he was on our server link, and i can tell you that in actual good hands weaver is a monster, in bad hands...forum-material) they want to scale things down to average-player level

Okay, I think it has become clear that you didn't read my OP at all.Cause I also suggested scrapper nerfs (and not light ones at that) AND also said in my closing statement, that things like FB obviously need to get adressed as well in some form since TTK would obviously get increased with all those changes. I even admitted, that I just don't know how to go about those nerfs since guardian is my least played profession. My bad for not overstepping my competences, I guess.

Second of all, how about you stop trying to discredit me, by saying I have no idea what im talking about and branding me as a second-rate casual that doesn't know how the game works. As far as I can tell your name doesn't ring a bell either, but you don't see me running my mouth about your credibility.

and what does scrapper nerfs have to do with that? scrapper allready got nerfed and now they are balanced

maybe you need to say what build you play, and in what rank.

[melandru.3876]

@Quadox.7834 said:

Anyway, one question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal, etc) than weaver?

spellbreaker 1 on 1 will never win from weaver. never. enough sources that show this. so what does that tell you?

[mortrialus.3062]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

Any time anyone talks about balance across multiple classes it becomes kind of an insane brutal dogpile.

[Quadox.7834]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

Anyway, one question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal, etc) than weaver?

spellbreaker 1 on 1 will never win from weaver. never. enough sources that show this. so what does that tell you?

That's not what I asked, let me repeat the question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal) than weaver?

Also, nice going ignoring the whole post except that one question (which wasn't even correctly quoted or responded to).

[melandru.3876]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

Anyway, one question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal, etc) than weaver?

spellbreaker 1 on 1 will never win from weaver. never. enough sources that show this. so what does that tell you?

That's not what I asked, let me repeat the question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal) than weaver?

Also, nice going ignoring the whole post except that one question (which wasn't even correctly quoted or responded to).

if spellbreaker can't kill weaver 1v1if weaver has better teamfight-capabilities then spellbreakerif weaver has a teleport

then basic logic would tell me, that weaver is in a good spot..just OP fails to play it to the limit

but what would i know right, i'm just some random unskilled warrior trying tod efend my main(which is an insult on it's own, as any capable player has every capable class ready incase a switch is needed)

but you are becomming annoying now, seek your attention elsewhere

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"Quadox.7834" said:What do you mean by "fb powercreep is necessary" and "would bring scrapper to an even less op level of bunker". Did your eyes home in on your main and ignore the purpose of the OP? Because I feel like you are missing the entire point of the post, which is to nerf everything.

well, since everything dumps out loads of damage, the op support from fb seems like its necessary, or else fights would last 10 sec. I cant imagine nerfs in pvp would be totally separate from wvw as well. i'm not saying it shouldn't be nerfed... just nerfed lightly or something lol. I think if all of the scrapper nerfs went into play, then it would fall out of meta, which seems to be what everyone wants. bunkers need good heals over time to be effective. notice how adaptive armor didn't change at all with the recent scrapper overhaul, the culprit was and still is bulwark gyro and to a lesser extent sneak gyro.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Imagine how fun gw2 would be if it was actually balanced around fighting other players.

[Zenix.6198]

@melandru.3876 said:

and what does scrapper nerfs have to do with that? scrapper allready got nerfed and now they are balanced

maybe you need to say what build you play, and in what rank.

Alright, yes, I do mainly play Sw/d weaver. Not the boring mender's water variant you are refering to all the time tho, since I do find it excessively boring and cheesy to play.Not that there is anything wrong with that build, I just dislike it personally.

And I can honestly tell you, that I dont mind dueling warriors.In fact it is one of my favorite MUs.That doesn't mean tho, that their dmg is fine necessarily (with the only counterplay to rampage is running away screaming i.e.)

And if you really want to know: Im currently at ~1650 rating and since I don't precisely remember my LB ranking, you can go and look it up yourself (if you are on EU).

[mortrialus.3062]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

you are biased towards powercreep, but surprise surprise powercreep is not only offensive (like OP thinks it is)bunker meta, is also powercreep, how fun was that right bunker this, bunker that needing 3 guys to kill 1 guy was deffo well balanced

the most sick aspect in the game currently is fb+scourge.every game (serious game not some gold rank trollfest) has 1 fb and 1 scourge on each side. somethimes even 2 scourges

the duelist has a wide range of options (spellbreaker, boonbeast, holo, scrapper, heraldthe decapper has 2 options (thief, and to some degree mesmer)

and isn't it obvious that in order to understand what is going on, you need to actually understand what's going on?

else the suggestion thread becomes a complain thread, which this exactly is.

"i play weaver, we in bad spot instead of trying to improve weaver(do they really need improvements tho, i have played together with cellofrag 2 weeks ago both in pvp and wvw as he was on our server link, and i can tell you that in actual good hands weaver is a monster, in bad hands...forum-material) they want to scale things down to average-player level

Okay, I think it has become clear that you didn't read my OP at all.Cause I also suggested scrapper nerfs (and not light ones at that) AND also said in my closing statement, that things like FB obviously need to get adressed as well in some form since TTK would obviously get increased with all those changes. I even admitted, that I just don't know how to go about those nerfs since guardian is my least played profession. My bad for not overstepping my competences, I guess.

Second of all, how about you stop trying to discredit me, by saying I have no idea what im talking about and branding me as a second-rate casual that doesn't know how the game works. As far as I can tell your name doesn't ring a bell either, but you don't see me running my mouth about your credibility.and what does scrapper nerfs have to do with that? scrapper allready got nerfed and

now they are balanced

[Sigmoid.7082]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

Any time anyone talks about balance across multiple classes it becomes kind of an insane brutal dogpile.

And any time they talk a out just one class it's always " but what about the things that are OP."

Balance discussions are hard to have because if everyone's bias towards either a playstyle or a class.

[dominik.9721]

Good points made, I personally also dislike fb and scourge since pof release. It's mandatory in teamfights and super unfun on maps where they stand highground on non port points with 0 counterplay as long as you don't have fb and scourge yourself.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@dominik.9721 said:Good points made, I personally also dislike fb and scourge since pof release. It's mandatory in teamfights and super unfun on maps where they stand highground on non port points with 0 counterplay as long as you don't have fb and scourge yourself.

buff staff ele ;-)

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@dominik.9721 said:Good points made, I personally also dislike fb and scourge since pof release. It's mandatory in teamfights and super unfun on maps where they stand highground on non port points with 0 counterplay as long as you don't have fb and scourge yourself.

buff staff ele ;-)

Stahp....they may believe you it that it needs a buff.

[Quadox.7834]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

Anyway, one question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal, etc) than weaver?

spellbreaker 1 on 1 will never win from weaver. never. enough sources that show this. so what does that tell you?

That's not what I asked, let me repeat the question: do you think spellbreaker is in a better state (more viable, optimal) than weaver?

Also, nice going ignoring the whole post except that one question (which wasn't even correctly quoted or responded to).

if spellbreaker can't kill weaver 1v1if weaver has better teamfight-capabilities then spellbreakerif weaver has a teleport

then basic logic would tell me, that weaver is in a good spot..just OP fails to play it to the limitLadies and gentlemen, weaver confirmed more viable than spellbreaker.

but what would i know right, i'm just some random unskilled warrior trying tod efend my main(which is an insult on it's own, as any capable player has every capable class ready incase a switch is needed)I never called you random or unskilled. Nice try.

but you are becomming annoying now, seek your attention elsewhereDude grow the hell up, this is not your forum, not even your thread. If you don't want your viewpoints challenged you should get better ones. Grow a pair.

[Euthymias.7984]

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:Imagine how fun gw2 would be if it was actually balanced around fighting other players.

It would be a wholly different game and community. More of the average player might understand how to handle themselves in Conquest and balancing might be less of a "popularity contest" about who cries NERF the loudest.

[Solori.6025]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:@Zenix.6198 I think these are steps in the right direction. 10/10 for covering the specs that need attention. Though like you said, Weaver (Ele in general perhaps) is more in need of rework than nerfs per se.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:kitten? Nerf thread without Thief's head impaled on a spike in it?! This

literally

freaks me out and makes me feel really uncertain.

i was scrolling through these ideas like Yea and now we get to NERF THIEF HERE HERE AND HERE AND THEN DELETE IT. i was let dissapointed and rly confused. is it possibke Anet has simply nerfed thief so much already that everyone is okay with fighting them? Has the Balance gone so far?

Unsettling right? Mesmers are probably right there with thieves since they have similar hate and nerf history. Like, did we just read a comprehensive balance proposal that doesn't mention us? Feels so weird lol.

Right?! I half expected a crazy nerf suggestion and was given nothing. I don't know whether to be happy that mes and thief didnt make the list. Or sad that they both are such non issues they didnt make the list.Error 404 emotions not found

[DonArkanio.6419]

I'm praying for the Nerf-all E-Specs. Seriously.Talking from a middle-plat Rev perspecitve I think you got that right. The no-defense Revenant is an excuse for the overpowered damage it deals. It just has to be toned down IMO. Playing against Power Shiro is boring, and for me playing this build myself is also boring. It's been 4 years. The issue is that Shiro provdes too much mobility so that every other legend feels lacking. But hey! Revenant isn't just the damage build in PvP, it can be a lot more, and it's usable.

conclusion:

• Not a single class should be able to survive against 3+ players when fighting directly
• Not a single class should be able to stack 25 (insert any boon) on its own
• Builds should chave actual consequences:|You go One-shot, you die one-shot| You go full tank, you deal no damage| You go hybrid, you are not able to perform great at everything | period.

What GW2 lacks in a competitive environment is trade-offs and consequences, that's all.

[Buran.3796]

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:

Talking from a middle-plat Rev perspecitve I think you got that right. The no-defense Revenant is an excuse for the overpowered damage it deals. It just has to be toned down IMO. Playing against Power Shiro is boring, and for me playing this build myself is also boring. It's been 4 years. The issue is that Shiro provdes too much mobility so that every other legend feels lacking. But hey! Revenant isn't just the damage build in PvP, it can be a lot more, and it's usable.

First, the Rev is in 3.5 years old, not 4. Second, base damage of Rev without might stacks is crap, and even with 25 the sustained damage over time is rather poor. Third, along 2018 Rev lost most of its vulnerability sources, and quickness from Impossible Odds, and none of the "buffs" it got worths a dime due the class hasn't changed the only viable build since the HoT beta. So yeah, nerf Rev even more... remove the class from PvP (just as if anyone wants a Rev in PvE, anyway).

[BlazinFyre.2410]

@"Buran.3796" said:First, the Rev is in 3.5 years old, not 4. Second, base damage of Rev without might stacks is kitten, and even with 25 the sustained damage over time is rather poor. Third, along 2018 Rev lost most of its vulnerability sources, and quickness from Impossible Odds, and none of the "buffs" it got worths a dime due the class hasn't changed the only viable build since the HoT beta. So yeah, nerf Rev even more... remove the class from PvP (just as if anyone wants a Rev in PvE, anyway).I don't think its possible you and I are playing the same game

[mortrialus.3062]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:

Talking from a middle-plat Rev perspecitve I think you got that right. The no-defense Revenant is an excuse for the overpowered damage it deals. It just has to be toned down IMO. Playing against Power Shiro is boring, and for me playing this build myself is also boring. It's been 4 years. The issue is that Shiro provdes too much mobility so that every other legend feels lacking. But hey! Revenant isn't just the damage build in PvP, it can be a lot more, and it's usable.

First, the Rev is in 3.5 years old, not 4. Second, base damage of Rev without might stacks is kitten, and even with 25 the sustained damage over time is rather poor. Third, along 2018 Rev lost most of its vulnerability sources, and quickness from Impossible Odds, and none of the "buffs" it got worths a dime due the class hasn't changed the only viable build since the HoT beta. So yeah, nerf Rev even more... remove the class from PvP (just as if anyone wants a Rev in PvE, anyway).

Yes. Let's get rid of Revenant and replace it with the blackguard anti-paladin it should have been.

[FyzE.3472]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Buran.3796 said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:

Talking from a middle-plat Rev perspecitve I think you got that right. The no-defense Revenant is an excuse for the overpowered damage it deals. It just has to be toned down IMO. Playing against Power Shiro is boring, and for me playing this build myself is also boring. It's been 4 years. The issue is that Shiro provdes too much mobility so that every other legend feels lacking. But hey! Revenant isn't just the damage build in PvP, it can be a lot more, and it's usable.

First, the Rev is in 3.5 years old, not 4. Second, base damage of Rev without might stacks is kitten, and even with 25 the sustained damage over time is rather poor. Third, along 2018 Rev lost most of its vulnerability sources, and quickness from Impossible Odds, and none of the "buffs" it got worths a dime due the class hasn't changed the only viable build since the HoT beta. So yeah, nerf Rev even more... remove the class from PvP (just as if anyone wants a Rev in PvE, anyway).

Yes. Let's get rid of Revenant and replace it with the blackguard anti-paladin it should have been.

You mean like Reaper?

[DoomNexus.5324]

Ye I've been saying for about a year now that everything needs to be tuned downed across the board. Because I think Anet could also balance much better when classes can't exploit well synergizing traits/skill like they often can do atm. Also huge issues with balancing sPvP in particular is that1) Anet rather buffs underperforming stuff than actually nerfing overperforming stuff (which causes powercreep)2) Anet almost never nerfs the one or two key skills/traits that actually cause the problem but rather nerfs some stuff that just exaggerates the problem (but sometimes has a ton of side effects and causes more issues that it tries to solve)3) Anet most of the time doesn't split WvW and PvP (enough) which just blows my mind because they are completely different game modes.. you can't even compare 5v5 / smallscale in WvW with sPvP fights just because in WvW you got every space in the world whereas in sPvP you have to stay on-point and roam around, you don't have the same runes/sigils/equip, buff food, etc etc which drastically affects your build choice and playstyle