MithranArkanere.8957 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. At a ini of 6 spamming sb5 uses all ur resources very fast so 3 sb5 is all that's possible that is if u wait few sec after the second shot to get the ini needed for the 3rd shot. Thief cant spam anything for long even with preparedness Heh. Not at all. There's more sources of initiative in skills and traits. There's daredevil builds that basically focus on the gimmick of spamming Vault over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 @MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Shared ammo doesn't work to keep people from using a single skill repeatedly and encouraging more varied skill use.And it is not a myth. You can see it happening, You can record people doing it. Either it's possible to use Vault more than 8 consecutive times in less than 20 seconds, or you are claiming WvW is full of cheaters that somehow have some sort of infinite initiative cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 @MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Shared ammo doesn't work to keep people from using a single skill repeatedly and encouraging more varied skill use.And it is not a myth. You can see it happening, You can record people doing it. Either it's possible to use Vault more than 8 consecutive times in less than 20 seconds, or you are claiming WvW is full of cheaters that somehow have some sort of infinite initiative cheat. Like I said, this is a perception issue that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Vault costs 5 init per use. 8 consecutive use in less than 20s will cost around 40 initiatives. Thief regens 1 initiative per second and there is no way to make that to regen twice as fast.RoI gives 6 init every 40s.If Signet gives 1 init every 10s.Upper Hand gives 1 init every 5s.Klepto gives 2 init every 20s. (every 30s if Sleight is not taken)Quick pockets gives 3 init every 10s.With the base init pool of 15 assuming you build fo Ac/Tr/DD, all those traits and skills doesn't add up to 40 init.So, as I say, your perception is taking you to a wrong conclusion. What you perceived to be "spammable" is not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Shared ammo doesn't work to keep people from using a single skill repeatedly and encouraging more varied skill use.And it is not a myth. You can see it happening, You can record people doing it. Either it's possible to use Vault more than 8 consecutive times in less than 20 seconds, or you are claiming WvW is full of cheaters that somehow have some sort of infinite initiative cheat. Like I said, this is a perception issue that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Vault costs 5 init per use. 8 consecutive use in less than 20s will cost around 40 initiatives. Thief regens 1 initiative per second and there is no way to make that to regen twice as fast.RoI gives 6 init every 40s.If Signet gives 1 init every 10s.Upper Hand gives 1 init every 5s.Klepto gives 2 init every 20s. (every 30s if Sleight is not taken)Quick pockets gives 3 init every 10s.With the base init pool of 15 assuming you build fo Ac/Tr/DD, all those traits and skills doesn't add up to 40 init.So, as I say, your perception is taking you to a wrong conclusion. What you perceived to be "spammable" is not so.15 ini +20 in 20 seconds is 35. not much needed to make it 40. however the longer the fight, the less you can spamm it. its like another profession joining a fight and spamming all skill on the 1. weapon, swapping and spamming out all on the 2nd set. you can do that to begin the fight but you wont keep that rate of non AA skills up for a longer time.the only thing to really spamm skills in WvW is an m7 rotation as deadeye, basically spamm rifle 2 for malice and reset with DJ. tho that only works reliably in the PvE parts of WvW like killing keep lords solo.edit: i also would advice to go CS/Tr/DD not acro. CS will provide more damage and more sustain, altho without an oh-shit trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 @MUDse.7623 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Shared ammo doesn't work to keep people from using a single skill repeatedly and encouraging more varied skill use.And it is not a myth. You can see it happening, You can record people doing it. Either it's possible to use Vault more than 8 consecutive times in less than 20 seconds, or you are claiming WvW is full of cheaters that somehow have some sort of infinite initiative cheat. Like I said, this is a perception issue that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Vault costs 5 init per use. 8 consecutive use in less than 20s will cost around 40 initiatives. Thief regens 1 initiative per second and there is no way to make that to regen twice as fast.RoI gives 6 init every 40s.If Signet gives 1 init every 10s.Upper Hand gives 1 init every 5s.Klepto gives 2 init every 20s. (every 30s if Sleight is not taken)Quick pockets gives 3 init every 10s.With the base init pool of 15 assuming you build fo Ac/Tr/DD, all those traits and skills doesn't add up to 40 init.So, as I say, your perception is taking you to a wrong conclusion. What you perceived to be "spammable" is not so.15 ini +20 in 20 seconds is 35. not much needed to make it 40. however the longer the fight, the less you can spamm it. its like another profession joining a fight and spamming all skill on the 1. weapon, swapping and spamming out all on the 2nd set. you can do that to begin the fight but you wont keep that rate of non AA skills up for a longer time.So basically you're saying that 3 consecutive use (total 15 init) is possible then you have to wait at least 5 seconds to use another Vault in the next 20s. That would total less than 8 uses albeit would not even pass to be called "consecutive" after the first 3 uses.Using skills consecutively is what Initiatives means, however the fact that Initiative is in limited amount prevents skill from being "spammable". Thus because of this limitation, no Thief skill is "spammable".the only thing to really spamm skills in WvW is an m7 rotation as deadeye, basically spamm rifle 2 for malice and reset with DJ. tho that only works reliably in the PvE parts of WvW like killing keep lords solo.At some point you'll hit a road block which make it not "spammable".edit: i also would advice to go CS/Tr/DD not acro. CS will provide more damage and more sustain, altho without an oh-kitten trait.In order to squeeze init gain from the traits, you have to take Upper Hand. Who cares of you have less damage, at least you can spam your skills according to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Reduce the duration of Black Powder field. Give the thief enough time to Use it once in an open field. But juuuust enough time where it's incredibly difficult for the thief to use it a second time in an open field (Not leaping into the wall).Because of the reduced duration, REDUCE THE INITIATIVE COST TO COMPENSATE OR SPEED UP THE CAST TIMENo way. Black Powder was already nerfed to tick every 2s instead of every 1s. It only pulses 3 times and reducing the duration will mean that it will only pulse 2 times. You cannot satisfy both 2s ticks and 3 pulse with a shorter duration. Either you speed up the ticks for the shorter duration, or you reduce the number of pulse to 2.Black powder should change into an ammo skill with 0 recharge in the skill itself as always, but 3 skill ammo and 6-10s recharge on the ammo., then have its initiative cost reduced to 4, freeing potential initiative to use other skills.It's not the only thief skill that should be changed to have ammo, so it can still be used in succession with initiative, but not spammed too often.Infiltrator's arrow is another one. That one should have just 2 charges, and recharge them every 12-15s, then have its initiative cost reduced to just 3.They can't do that. That will open up a whole can of worms where they start adding CD on Thief's weapon skills. Even if it is a CD for the Ammo, it would still be the first weapon skill with CD.What people want and what has to be done isn't always the same, unfortunately. Thieves could never get cooldowns in their skills, as that would utterly destroy the basic design of thief weapons. But ammo still allows using the weapon skills repeatedly like before ammo, but puts a stop on spam that allows both repetitive gimmicks and falling into repetitive traps, while also leaving more initiative to other skills, and in turns allows improving the skills themselves as they no longer have to be limited by how much initiative a person can put in a single skill. Initiatives already acts as an ammo.Example: Death's Blossom - 3 ammo, 4s ammo CD, 12s skill CDIf used up all the ammo by using DB 3x, you'll have to wait 4s for an ammo to refill. You'll have to wait 12s for full ammo.Adding ammo to initiative skills is like adding ammo to an ammo. It's ridiculous. Ammo skills in other professions don't cost anything, thus you can't put ammo on Thief skills that cost initiatives.The notion of "spam" and "repetitive gimmick" is a myth. There is no way you can spam a skill without depleting all initiatives. Yes, we have traits and skills that can refill initiatives which only proves that initiatives are in limited amount and does not allow for skills to be spammed. Even if you choose to deplete all your initiatives, you are not simply exhausting one weapon skill rather you are exhausting all weapon skills that uses initiatives. You're proposing to change Black Powder to ammo based -- are you suggesting that Black Powder is spammable? If you really believe that, then we have a perception issue here that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Shared ammo doesn't work to keep people from using a single skill repeatedly and encouraging more varied skill use.And it is not a myth. You can see it happening, You can record people doing it. Either it's possible to use Vault more than 8 consecutive times in less than 20 seconds, or you are claiming WvW is full of cheaters that somehow have some sort of infinite initiative cheat. Like I said, this is a perception issue that is beyond what ArenaNet can patch.Vault costs 5 init per use. 8 consecutive use in less than 20s will cost around 40 initiatives. Thief regens 1 initiative per second and there is no way to make that to regen twice as fast.RoI gives 6 init every 40s.If Signet gives 1 init every 10s.Upper Hand gives 1 init every 5s.Klepto gives 2 init every 20s. (every 30s if Sleight is not taken)Quick pockets gives 3 init every 10s.With the base init pool of 15 assuming you build fo Ac/Tr/DD, all those traits and skills doesn't add up to 40 init.So, as I say, your perception is taking you to a wrong conclusion. What you perceived to be "spammable" is not so.15 ini +20 in 20 seconds is 35. not much needed to make it 40. however the longer the fight, the less you can spamm it. its like another profession joining a fight and spamming all skill on the 1. weapon, swapping and spamming out all on the 2nd set. you can do that to begin the fight but you wont keep that rate of non AA skills up for a longer time.So basically you're saying that 3 consecutive use (total 15 init) is possible then you have to wait at least 5 seconds to use another Vault in the next 20s. That would total less than 8 uses albeit would not even pass to be called "consecutive" after the first 3 uses.Using skills consecutively is what Initiatives means, however the fact that Initiative is in limited amount prevents skill from being "spammable". Thus because of this limitation, no Thief skill is "spammable".first it was said that some use 8 vaults within 20 seconds.then you detailed how 8 vaults per 20 seconds is not possible, wich i dont think was said. it is possible to hit 8 vaults within the first 20 seconds of a fight.it seems the previous poster preceives such frequent use of the skill as spamm. now that i told you that 8 vaults within 20 seconds are possible, you try to dismiss it with your personal view of what spamm is. so if something has a downtime it is not spamm ? if i recieve a mail every hour its not spamm because it could be every other minute?the only thing to really spamm skills in WvW is an m7 rotation as deadeye, basically spamm rifle 2 for malice and reset with DJ. tho that only works reliably in the PvE parts of WvW like killing keep lords solo.At some point you'll hit a road block which make it not "spammable".the duration of reveal is a greater limit than the ini, but still no downtime worth mentioning.edit: i also would advice to go CS/Tr/DD not acro. CS will provide more damage and more sustain, altho without an oh-kitten trait.In order to squeeze init gain from the traits, you have to take Upper Hand. Who cares of you have less damage, at least you can spam your skills according to some.??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFishBob.6518 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I was thinking about this earlier with regards to DareDevil after the patch. Since DareDevil is supposed to be the brawler espec for Thief, why not give them a special stance in place of stealth? I'd call it guarded initiation and it reduces damage taken to 0 and gives the DareDevil a breakbar until the DareDevil does damage or the breakbar breaks, then gets revealed just like stealth. So every application of stealth to a DareDevil would give them guarded initiation instead where they would be visible but invincible to everything but control effects. Guarded initiation for Daredevil gives access to stealth skills just like stealth does for Thief and DeadEye.This way, the complaints about stealth on Daredevil stop and Daredevil gains some survivability to at least approach melee. Is that a workable trade off or not at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 @DaFishBob.6518 said:I was thinking about this earlier with regards to DareDevil after the patch. Since DareDevil is supposed to be the brawler espec for Thief, why not give them a special stance in place of stealth? I'd call it guarded initiation and it reduces damage taken to 0 and gives the DareDevil a breakbar until the DareDevil does damage or the breakbar breaks, then gets revealed just like stealth. So every application of stealth to a DareDevil would give them guarded initiation instead where they would be visible but invincible to everything but control effects. Guarded initiation for Daredevil gives access to stealth skills just like stealth does for Thief and DeadEye.This way, the complaints about stealth on Daredevil stop and Daredevil gains some survivability to at least approach melee. Is that a workable trade off or not at all?i dunno, currently i see mainly thieves themselves complaining about stealth in hopes to get buffs somewhere else, just like they did with deadeye. on one hand they argued that it is only a noobstomper and not competitive and on the other hand they wanted it nerfed to further buff the more competitive builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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