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The 10 most common errors and misconceptions of Conquest PvP


Falan.1839

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@Falan.1839 said:2)“Thief close”One of my personal favourites. I am still at loss about where this originated, but I keep reading it. I suspect it might have to something with trollish thief builds like Staff DD or Dagger/Dagger Condi CD being common in lower tiers. However, most thief builds viable in high tier (almost exclusively SD core as of the last patch) are notoriously awful duelists and should not be sent into 1v1s. They can take a few matchups (Mes, Rev, Mirror Matchup), but are absolutely awful in others (Holo, Scrapper, Warriors and Rangers in all their forms). The strength of Thief is in rotations, resulting in either +1s for quick kills or decaps. Sending it to cap close and risking it to be drawn into a 1v1 sacrifices this strength. Either the thief will fight a bad 1v1 and possibly lose, or be smart enough to disengage and create a number advantage in mid. However, even in that case close will be instantly lost, and that is not a desirable outcome whatsoever.

This is likely from DrD D/P thieves that can reach close and cap it far faster than any other class (although S/D isn't that far behind). If the other team doesn't push close, then this is a decent advantage on your team since the thief can cap home before the other team and rotate to either +1 a small fight around mid or sneak behind and decap far.

Of course...if the other team pushes close, the thief might as well just give it to them. This, along with DrD D/P now being dead is likely why you don't want to use this strat.

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I think there are a couple ways to interpret fight on point. one is the scenario you described. another is when people team fight off point for no reason. obviously winning that fight would be good, but not being in that fight in the first place would be better. especially when they have 2 caps. lastly, is when people get pressured, try to kite, and end up dying off point with no one supporting them. its great if when you're kiting people actually support you, but that's rare in lower divisions.

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10,000 games, wow. At 8 minutes a game that comes to almost 60 full days of gw2 pvp. I think you are not alone with this time commitment, but I sure do understand now why it is so hard for a new player when mixed in a game with players like you. I've been studying this pvp game on my down time trying to get competent, but posts like that depress me. I don't care about the bad players I am teamed with, it's being teamed against players like you that have pushed me away.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:Not calling targets. 90% of the population don't call targets. And I think most of them might not even understand how/who/what to target

Could you pls share your preference in targetting? Although I am quite experienced with 6k games and all seasons in p1 and p2, I am feeling quite unsure about the „right“ targets...

I would always target fb first, then scourge ofc, but what then? What would you guys recommend?

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in the silver tier we also have the top stats seekers, they play in a way to get top stats, even if this means playing almost the worst as possible teamwise, like pushing far non stop. And when the game is lost they are sure that they've done their jobs and you're just a silly noob without a top stats.

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@Serenity.6304 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Not calling targets. 90% of the population don't call targets. And I think most of them might not even understand how/who/what to target

Could you pls share your preference in targetting? Although I am quite experienced with 6k games and all seasons in p1 and p2, I am feeling quite unsure about the „right“ targets...

I would always target fb first, then scourge ofc, but what then? What would you guys recommend?

I know you didn't ask me, but I do feel like the biggest reason my teams fail is bad priority targeting. My personal order goes

Berserkers post rework > Fresh Air Eles > Necromancers of any variety > Glint+Shiro Rev > Power GS Mesmer > Support Classes like Firebrand > Everything else.

It's kind of a cumulative decision that takes into account: How threatening are they? How easy are they to kill? For example a Holosmith isn't a bad priority target and can rip your team to shreds in a team fight, but you also have to account for the fact that as soon as they're in danger they will Elixir S for invulnerability and Toss Elixir S for 6 seconds of stealth. A necromancer of any variety is more vulnerable to getting focused.

I'd target the scourge over the firebrand 90% of the time. Like maybe if I know the Firebrand is hot garbage and will instantly melt I'll focus them over the necro, but usually the necromancer comes first. Yeah if you target the scourge that leaves the Firebrand more open to heal the Scourge, but that's a preferable situation to leaving the scourge open to free cast on the team which is a far worse situation.

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I agree with the poster over me, that is about the right order, possibly with Power Mes over Rev. Deadeye has a place in the upper echelons aswell, especially now that its stealth is nerfed. The same goes for Zerk Sic Em Soulbeasts. Generally anything squishy with high dps. Obviously you need some flexibility depending on which builds you face and how the players position themselves, so this is a rough order but nothing you should stick to religiously. Even a Holo or a Spb can be a good first target when he's out of position and split from his team. Focusing FB can work, but usually it's smarter to go for the Necro first, since not only it's less tanky but you also negate its damage/denial potential by that if he gets hardpressured/CCd. The only problem with not focussing FB is the Signet of Mercy, preferably try to counter it via either interruppting (if no stab or you can either corrupt/rip or have a thief steal it) or by launching the downed corpse out of its radius (Shiro Elite, Overcharged Shot, Banish, Prime Light Beam etc.).

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In general, targeting priority is a huge decider in games.

Basically my order:

  1. Target any player who gives sustain to otherwise glass players who are using that sustain to avoid dying when focused. FB comes to mind. Depending it may make sense to target them second if you can CC them long enough to kill a target under #2.
  2. Target any player who is squishy and a threat for their damage to the team. DPS Thieves, Revs, Rangers, Ele, etc.
  3. Any brawler who would sustain in 1v1 and does moderate damage but dies in team fights easily enough.
  4. Any bunker who isn’t also granting team mates sustain.
  5. Any player who is somehow not doing damage or sustaining anyone and seems to die without being focused, assuming they are still alive at this point.

Alternative target:

  • After a target is downed the player most likely or able to revive the downed, unless a DPS class presents a larger threat than a revive.
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@tacoclaw.8251 said:10,000 games, wow. At 8 minutes a game that comes to almost 60 full days of gw2 pvp. I think you are not alone with this time commitment, but I sure do understand now why it is so hard for a new player when mixed in a game with players like you. I've been studying this pvp game on my down time trying to get competent, but posts like that depress me. I don't care about the bad players I am teamed with, it's being teamed against players like you that have pushed me away.

Well this seems like a weak excuse for an argument. You are pushed away because someone played more hours than you? How will you ever be new to any type of content then? Someone will have always played an enormous amount more than you...

Learn the strategies.

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I have another point for the list similar to "All to Tranq": All to Skyhammer. I won so many games by fighting over skyhammer while we had 2 or 3 points capped. There was always one of our team at skyhammer so that the enemy team couldn't finish getting it, and whilst the fight was going on for minutes,the points were ticking in our favor.
It is the same problem with the bell, but since the bell gives more points every time you ring it, it might be important to fight over it, it depends.

Another point is "Hold the node at all costs", a "strategy" I often see. One player running or not disengaging into 2 or 3 of the enemy team coming to our node. Maybe 5 seconds and he's dead (so obviously not a scrapper :D). The reason is always the same: We had the node and that players wanted to keep it a few seconds longer. What is in no proportion to the 5 points for the enemy team, the 15 sec respawn time and meanwhile being one player less; allowing snowbally matches.

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Targeting also depends on positioning and time to kill. If the high dps is out of position or in a vulnerable spot but maybe it's not super high on the priority list normally? Well it is now.

In that light, some things are super hard to kill if they know they're targeted which makes rev a bad initial target. Although it is sometimes really easy to kill if it swaps to Shiro and is out of position.

Personally, due to time to kill in solo queue games I prefer this kill order:Necro if it's alone or outnumbered because no escape.Fresh air eleDPS ranger, low time to kill, bad at counterpressure.DeadeyeRev, away from node/out of position.This is because you can easily kill these things away from their teammates who are gonna be hanging out around node and can't keep up (like fb and scourge) this is also why it's important to fight off node and save your mates/get kills first.Necro. Necro can have a high time to kill when supported or blood. But if you get a kill this jumps to spot number 1 as it's outnumbered and can't escape.Power mesmer. Out of cds in a long fight. If out of position or chrono but still glass move it above necro depending on situation and necro can be kited.Berserker war. They're here because easy to kill but also easy to kite and ignore. So kill others first and kite.Dps guardFirebrand: gotta kill him eventuallyRev/Holo you're snowballing nowPower mesSpellbreaker depending on CDsScrapper depending on CDsMesmer - if not one shot/powerSoulbeastWeaver

These are all very fluid and if something has low cds and your recognize it sometimes its worth to hard swap and fuck the list. This can be true after a Firebrand gets rez and takes some cleave for example. Or sometimes you know you can kill something or someone really easy with your build. That could be a huge impact. Go ahead and do that.

This is for queue...

For team play, positioning and cds factor in, but coordinating dmg is more important and the list becomes more rigid and also more fluid in response to this. And that's a whole other story.

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Targeting is also everyone's responsibility. If I'm a dps I'm going to target a dps at the start to kill them/not get killed by them. If I'm dps and I'm +ing into a 4v4 or something I'm gonna target on my kill order if there is no target. If you're in that fight and know someone has low cds or something target that person so I know who to kill. There should be a target up in every fight to communicate these things.

That being said, don't just go ham on a target. Remember you can peel for teammates and you can use soft or hard cc on things that aren't your target. For power Ranger for example it's often best to pew pew someone but then knock back someone else. It creates a moment of + for your team, their teammate can't help, and you don't knock them out of dmg

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@tacoclaw.8251 said:10,000 games, wow. At 8 minutes a game that comes to almost 60 full days of gw2 pvp. I think you are not alone with this time commitment, but I sure do understand now why it is so hard for a new player when mixed in a game with players like you. I've been studying this pvp game on my down time trying to get competent, but posts like that depress me. I don't care about the bad players I am teamed with, it's being teamed against players like you that have pushed me away.

I've checked, it's actually over 12.000. To put things in perspective, I play this game since 2012 and haven't played much else since, perhaps a handful of games with ~50-100 hours playitme, but nothings that lasted longer than a few weeks.

However, the meta changes quite frequently and my games from 5 years back are very unlikely to help me nowadays, unless it's Jebro's core tournament. I'd say it's possible to catch up with the veterans on 98% of the relevant aspects of this game (possibly excluding a few heritage builds that are extremely niche today) in a few months of dedicated playtime and actually many people have done so.

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@Falan.1839 said:

@"tacoclaw.8251" said:10,000 games, wow. At 8 minutes a game that comes to almost 60 full days of gw2 pvp. I think you are not alone with this time commitment, but I sure do understand now why it is so hard for a new player when mixed in a game with players like you. I've been studying this pvp game on my down time trying to get competent, but posts like that depress me. I don't care about the bad players I am teamed with, it's being teamed against players like you that have pushed me away.

I've checked, it's actually over 12.000. To put things in perspective, I play this game since 2012 and haven't played much else since, perhaps a handful of games with ~50-100 hours playitme, but nothings that lasted longer than a few weeks.

However, the meta changes quite frequently and my games from 5 years back are very unlikely to help me nowadays, unless it's Jebro's core tournament. I'd say it's possible to catch up with the veterans on 98% of the relevant aspects of this game (possibly excluding a few heritage builds that are extremely niche today) in a few months of dedicated playtime and actually many people have done so.

Second this. I won't say I am quite as good as a "veteran" just made it to plat 1 last season and have been consistently staying there. I am not dying to "veterans" in seconds n can actually win some of my 1v1s.

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@Khalisto.5780 said:in the silver tier we also have the top stats seekers, they play in a way to get top stats, even if this means playing almost the worst as possible teamwise, like pushing far non stop. And when the game is lost they are sure that they've done their jobs and you're just a silly noob without a top stats.

If they have top stat it's like they contributed something you did not. Think about it. If the game is based on capping nodes, offense and defense means they contributed to those points. The game is also based on kills. So doing dmg and kills and they have top stats it means they added to this points. So yes stats absolutely mean they have done their job whether you like it or not.

There is nothing wrong with pushing far non stop if you are a duelist. That's your job.

I went from silver 2 to plat1. And i can honestly say. When I ve done things correctly I had top stats. These numbers totally break down how you contribute. And to go up you need to think of how to improve those.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:in the silver tier we also have the top stats seekers, they play in a way to get top stats, even if this means playing almost the worst as possible teamwise, like pushing far non stop. And when the game is lost they are sure that they've done their jobs and you're just a silly noob without a top stats.

If they have top stat it's like they contributed something you did not. Think about it. If the game is based on capping nodes, offense and defense means they contributed to those points. The game is also based on kills. So doing dmg and kills and they have top stats it means they added to this points. So yes stats absolutely mean they have done their job whether you like it or not.

There is nothing wrong with pushing far non stop if you are a duelist. That's your job.

I went from silver 2 to plat1. And i can honestly say. When I ve done things correctly I had top stats. These numbers totally break down how you contribute. And to go up you need to think of how to improve those.

You can consistently get top stats while making the worst decicion possible, i wosh i had my old replays to showcase how bad it can be. Running far with my ele losing duels while I dont even manage to fully cap the node still getting top stats offense and healing everygame while the real impact in the game was 0. I also see deadeyes ignoring the sides captured and going mid to farm kills, ans still getting top stats. That's why I say top stats are misleading. I think it would be better if there're no top stats in the scoreboard.

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I think idea behind thief close is that since he has such high mobility he can cap close and join a fight mid, problem is if he gets contested by a duelist he will lose the point.I also believe that no matter the team composition you have to play whole map (3 nodes) just you need to know when to go where. Even when you play 'side nodes' you should be paying attention to mid.

Don't use treb please, thank you.

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@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:in the silver tier we also have the top stats seekers, they play in a way to get top stats, even if this means playing almost the worst as possible teamwise, like pushing far non stop. And when the game is lost they are sure that they've done their jobs and you're just a silly noob without a top stats.

If they have top stat it's like they contributed something you did not. Think about it. If the game is based on capping nodes, offense and defense means they contributed to those points. The game is also based on kills. So doing dmg and kills and they have top stats it means they added to this points. So yes stats absolutely mean they have done their job whether you like it or not.

There is nothing wrong with pushing far non stop if you are a duelist. That's your job.

I went from silver 2 to plat1. And i can honestly say. When I ve done things correctly I had top stats. These numbers totally break down how you contribute. And to go up you need to think of how to improve those.

You can consistently get top stats while making the worst decicion possible, i wosh i had my old replays to showcase how bad it can be. Running far with my ele losing duels while I dont even manage to fully cap the node still getting top stats offense and healing everygame while the real impact in the game was 0. I also see deadeyes ignoring the sides captured and going mid to farm kills, ans still getting top stats. That's why I say top stats are misleading. I think it would be better if there're no top stats in the scoreboard.

One does not equal the other. Sure maybe u went far and lost. U didn't full cap it. But maybe your team is just as bad. N didn't contribute at all. If u had best offense and didn't full cap that means none of ur team was capping. I don't see why that's misleading.

You only get offense from standing on and contesting it. Stand on a node some one already owns and not changing it to yours doesn't give you offense points.

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