WvW : A numbers game.

[Straegen.2938]

I agree with a few of the ideas here:

• Rally is a mechanic that punishes newer players as well. Guilds don't want pugs around because of it causing them to isolate newer players.
• More frequent relinks also would be a good idea. Two month relinks was voted in a long time ago before we knew how long two months can be.
• T4 probably could be eliminated and those servers become links. Not sure since we don't know prime population numbers
• Warclaw should absolutely be susceptible to hard CC

@steki.1478 said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

This creates the yo-yo effect. Get mauled by a much stronger server for a week. Beat the snot out of two lower servers for a week. Neither is particularly fun.

[SweetPotato.7456]

@spectrito.8513 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:This looks like a sneaky post to get downstate remove. There is no need to remove anything.

Im not surprised you didnt even cared to read the post.

@spectrito.8513 said:

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes

Instead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

I am surprised you assumed I didn't read your Original Posting.

Because I like the Warclam Maul ability, thats one, and its fun when you are outnumbered, to lurk and jumps into a bunch of downed players is what I like to do.I've rally from down state a lot of times that I want it to stay, even if it means I am on the low populace side of the game, usually.

Downstate is good in cooperative game play. I especially like commander who goes, get our down, get our down and then 321, rez the teammate. Its a good mechanic, do not remove it. I hate people who runs in a zerg and then leave their teammate and not rez them, and ask to run back :P

[DeadlySynz.3471]

No downed state counters the numbers game. Perfect example, a blog of 50-60 people assaulted a tower. There was maybe 10 of us which were filtering in slowly from spawn. The enemies made it into tower and to the lord. I ran up, tossed a phase smash in the group plus a CoR and 5-7 of them died. I'm guessing these people went more glassy to try to capitalize on no down-state. I jumped out of the tower and ran back in, during that time my server mates killed about half dozen. I grabbed a banner, dropped dragons breath (or whatever it's called) and another 25-30 died.

That never would have happened with down state active. This just goes to show just how much groups/blobs rely on it. Removing it completely changes the meta and tactics. You can down people all day, but it's not the same finishing them off. Trying to finish a downed player in the middle of their zerg.. is.. lets just say.. impossible.

[steki.1478]

@spectrito.8513 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

You know what people do when they can't win and want easy fights ?

!

THEY BANDWAGON

Saying it again, they make their own problems. Cant beat the system? Adapt to it.

On a plus side Anet gets extra income because an average wvw player isnt particularly rich in game.

[spectrito.8513]

@steki.1478 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

You know what people do when they can't win and want easy fights ?

!

THEY BANDWAGON

Saying it again, they make their own problems. Cant beat the system? Adapt to it.

On a plus side Anet gets extra income because an average wvw player isnt particularly rich in game.

So to enjoy the game mode i need to pay for it by either joining the bandwagon or transfering to a lower tier ?

Lets say, people from server X bandwagon to Y. Leaving X to rot along with few players still thereMeanwhile, bandwagoners get easy matches by playing against way less populated servers.So servers matched against Y along with server X suffers in detriment to Y enjoyment.Then they get bored and bandwagon again repeating the process.It's a vicious cycle.

As you said, a average WvW isnt rich, so they have 3 options, buy gems to transfer, stay where they are, or If they dont want to buy gems and they dont enjoy WvW where they are they'll most likely quit.

Does Anet gets extra income ? Yes.Does it worth lose players for it ? Im not so sure.

[steki.1478]

@spectrito.8513 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:

@steki.1478 said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

You know what people do when they can't win and want easy fights ?

!

THEY BANDWAGON

Saying it again, they make their own problems. Cant beat the system? Adapt to it.

On a plus side Anet gets extra income because an average wvw player isnt particularly rich in game.

So to enjoy the game mode i need to pay for it by either joining the bandwagon or transfering to a lower tier ?

Lets say, people from server X bandwagon to Y. Leaving X to rot along with few players still thereMeanwhile, bandwagoners get easy matches by playing against way less populated servers.So servers matched against Y along with server X suffers in detriment to Y enjoyment.Then they get bored and bandwagon again repeating the process.It's a vicious cycle.

As you said, a average WvW isnt rich, so they have 3 options, buy gems to transfer, stay where they are, or If they dont want to buy gems and they dont enjoy WvW where they are they'll most likely quit.

Does Anet gets extra income ? Yes.Does it worth lose players for it ? Im not so sure.

Different people find enjoyment in different things. Some people bandwagon because they like easy wins, some bandwagon because they need fresh blood in their guild, some bandwagon because they are simply not enjoying the server they are on. On the other side there's people who want to establish big, coordinated community and attract players and guilds with similar goals.

If people leave your server then they probably have a good reason - they dont have fun there. As long as wvw remains a sandbox game mode without a strict goal and focus, there will always be population disparity.

[spectrito.8513]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:

@SweetPotato.7456 said:This looks like a sneaky post to get downstate remove. There is no need to remove anything.

Im not surprised you didnt even cared to read the post.

@spectrito.8513 said:

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes

Instead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

I am surprised you assumed I didn't read your Original Posting.

Because I like the Warclam Maul ability, thats one, and its fun when you are outnumbered, to lurk and jumps into a bunch of downed players is what I like to do.I've rally from down state a lot of times that I want it to stay, even if it means I am on the low populace side of the game, usually.

Downstate is good in cooperative game play. I especially like commander who goes, get our down, get our down and then 321, rez the teammate. Its a good mechanic, do not remove it. I hate people who runs in a zerg and then leave their teammate and not rez them, and ask to run back :P

I assumed you didnt read the post because you keep talking about downed state.

My point is that in a outnumbered fight, the larger group benefits more from rally than the small one, on top of already having numbers advantage.Without rally people need to play more carefully, rewarding strategy, coordination and skill instead of "gather a bunch of people and spam everything" meta.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Numbers game indeed. I am a solo/duo roamer myself so if ppl bandwagoned of my server and onto my enemies, it adds more fights for me as thats what I enjoy. If you are a zerger....not so much.

[spectrito.8513]

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:Numbers game indeed. I am a solo/duo roamer myself so if ppl bandwagoned of my server and onto my enemies, it adds more fights for me as thats what I enjoy. If you are a zerger....not so much.

I was a roamer too, but suddenly people got 11k+health, 3 extra dodges and cc immunity and started playing "smart" so i gave up on roaming.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@spectrito.8513 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:Numbers game indeed. I am a solo/duo roamer myself so if ppl bandwagoned of my server and onto my enemies, it adds more fights for me as thats what I enjoy. If you are a zerger....not so much.

I was a roamer too, but suddenly people got 11k+health, 3 extra dodges and cc immunity and started playing "smart" so i gave up on roaming.

I personally adapted/overcame and changed the way I engage. To each their own. :)

[LetoII.3782]

@steki.1478 said:

The only thing I can agree with are warclaw changes. It has too much flavor for a traveling tool. If gliding doesn't have combat value, mount shouldn't either and we certainly don't need those to affect class balance.

Personally I was hoping for glider combat. Updrafts, lazors, barrel rolls and bombs.Same with warclaw, since they spent the time, let's have mounted combat.

As-is these things don't change the fighting much, they're more fluff than content.

[Aeolus.3615]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@steki.1478 said:

The only thing I can agree with are warclaw changes. It has too much flavor for a traveling tool. If gliding doesn't have combat value, mount shouldn't either and we certainly don't need those to affect class balance.

Personally I was hoping for glider combat. Updrafts, lazors, barrel rolls and bombs.Same with warclaw, since they spent the time, let's have mounted combat.

As-is these things don't change the fighting much, they're more fluff than content.

Mounted combat? Where do we actually have mounted combat????

Unmounting by casting a skill isn’t mount combat ahahahah, people stil fall for Anet placebos like children to the candy van :}

Golem fights is more mounted combat than actually use ..mounts.