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Finally nerf fb and scourge


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Can we finally nerf both of them?

  • It's unfun to fight a fb and scourge in a tf standing highground on non port spots and freewinning every single tf as long as you don't have a fb yourself
  • It's unfun to fight a fb who is too bad to do a single proper dodgeroll, facetankes every burst combo like a punching bag but simply heals up and survives, nevertheless
  • It's unfun to see some certain players suddenly doing work on scourge and fb allthough they are known for being mechanically pure garbage
  • It's unfun to see those certain players suddenly doing work allthough they were known bad players before they rerolled to fb and scourge
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I think it would be cool if they made firebrands self heal less. That way they act as a support for their teammates but they can't bunker themselves at the same time. It would make it necessary for the whole team to protect the firebrand or to run a second healer to compensate for self heal loss.

It's basically the same like in other games with medics, they can heal their teammates really well but they can't heal themselves as much, making it necessary to protect the medic.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its firebrand that's the problem. necro always has and always will have poor sustain.

Barrier scourge who stands highground on non port spots has everything but not poor sustain.He barely loses any dmg output while kiting around which is the reason why it's so much better than core nec and reaper.

If he kites correctly on non port spots (capricorn mid, kyhlo mid or coliseum as an example) most damage skills from revs, thiefs, guards (non portspot) and other melee classes are negated anyways -meanwhile the scourge is still able to apply 100% of his dmg with shades. And if you try to engage him allthough you cannot use half of your dmg skills while he can, you basically will just suicide.

FB and scourge both promote extremly unhealthy and unfun gameplay, while being also extremly powerfull since PoF release.

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@dominik.9721 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its firebrand that's the problem. necro always has and always will have poor sustain.

Barrier scourge who stands highground on non port spots has everything but not poor sustain.He barely loses any dmg output while kiting around which is the reason why it's so much better than core nec and reaper.

true I didn't think of that, but that applies to some other ranged classes as well.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its firebrand that's the problem. necro always has and always will have poor sustain.

Barrier scourge who stands highground on non port spots has everything but not poor sustain.He barely loses any dmg output while kiting around which is the reason why it's so much better than core nec and reaper.

true I didn't think of that, but that applies to some other ranged classes as well.

As stated above other range classes cannot deal dmg at the same time while kiting around. This ounterpressure actually makes it pretty easy to kite around and to sustain.A deadeye or a longbow soulbeast might stand there but if you engage them they start to kite and then they're not able to deal damage at the same time.

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As much as I agree with you, I doubt they are going to change shade mechanics as that requires a full rework of the entire Scourge profession (it needs it, but as I said, it's unlikely).A change I think should and could be implemented now is to swap Scourge F4 and F5 and make desert shroud (current F5, new F4) a channel skill. This will put it in line with the core/reaper shroud 4 skill and fix the broken interaction with transfusion as well as making the torment application from desert shroud weaker as it can be cc'ed/ cancelled (maybe increase application to once every 1/2 sec to compensate for this).

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@dominik.9721 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its firebrand that's the problem. necro always has and always will have poor sustain.

Barrier scourge who stands highground on non port spots has everything but not poor sustain.He barely loses any dmg output while kiting around which is the reason why it's so much better than core nec and reaper.

true I didn't think of that, but that applies to some other ranged classes as well.

As stated above other range classes cannot deal dmg at the same time while kiting around. This ounterpressure actually makes it pretty easy to kite around and to sustain.A deadeye or a longbow soulbeast might stand there but if you engage them they start to kite and then they're not able to deal damage at the same time.

You forgot about FA Weaver. They kite and do massive damage and CC at the same time.

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@dominik.9721 said:As stated above other range classes cannot deal dmg at the same time while kiting around. This ounterpressure actually makes it pretty easy to kite around and to sustain.A deadeye or a longbow soulbeast might stand there but if you engage them they start to kite and then they're not able to deal damage at the same time.

sounds like you have a problem with condis.

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Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

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@"XECOR.2814" said:Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

Oh boy, this post just shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the issue being discussed. It's almost not worth responding to, but knowing the balance team, they would actually listen to incredibly short-sighted posts like this one.

The problem with fb/scourge isn't that they work together and communicate. Reaper/tempest worked together in HoT meta and it was fine. The problem is that scourge can stand still and spam endless AoEs on the point while the firebrand spams endless support keeping them both alive. It's faceroll, easy mode, anti-fun garbage like this that has ruined PvP and chased off all former pro players. And no, it's not just fb+scourge that are spammy easy mode trash, but they are by far the longest withstanding offenders, having been a problem since the launch of PoF.

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@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@"XECOR.2814" said:Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

Oh boy, this post just shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the issue being discussed. It's almost not worth responding to, but knowing the balance team, they would actually listen to incredibly short-sighted posts like this one.

The problem with fb/scourge isn't that they work together and communicate. Reaper/tempest worked together in HoT meta and it was fine. The problem is that scourge can stand still and spam endless AoEs on the point while the firebrand spams endless support keeping them both alive. It's faceroll, easy mode, anti-fun garbage like this that has ruined PvP and chased off all former pro players. And no, it's not just fb+scourge that are spammy easy mode trash, but they are by far the longest withstanding offenders, having been a problem since the launch of PoF.

You are living in the past. If you are not high rated yourself look at streams of high rated players there are many counters to fb+scg comp. You know what is easy mode? Rev, sb, chrono. Scg does not have endless aoe and fb does not have infinite support. You are delusioned by your lack of knowledge of builds, their current performance and their playstyle. Infact scg+fb comp loses to high rotation based very bursty comp and needs to adapt a lot for any chance of win. Yes, in ranked with low skilled players and no communication it would seem like fb+scg is immortal and low effort but it would be false to say it. Fb+scg is the only structure left to gw2 pvp otherwise its a who kills whom first in under a second first clown fiesta. I would rather have deathmatch in such a game than conquest.

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We currently are in a teamfight meta, while you can replace scourge in most teamcomps, for example by running an additional rev/holo etc the firebrand is pretty much a must have in today’s meta. If you don’t have a firebrand you will more than likely not be successful in any 5v5 on high levelScourge firebrand comp has been the most dominant ever since pof launch

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@torben.1532 said:We currently are in a teamfight meta, while you can replace scourge in most teamcomps, for example by running an additional rev/holo etc the firebrand is pretty much a must have in today’s meta. If you don’t have a firebrand you will more than likely not be successful in any 5v5 on high levelScourge firebrand comp has been the most dominant ever since pof launch

pls never call this tf meta again.a fb + scourge+ 2 revs at its best facesmashing their skills into each other doesn't deserve the name teamfight.

@XECOR.2814 why are there so many FBs and Scourges nowadays suddenly doing well allthough they were known to be completly bad before PoF?Two certain well known FBs played their main class before PoF and were pretty much on the same lvl as silencia on thief. Guess it is so because it's balanced and healthy for the game? Back then you had like 4-5 good necros in this game on EU now you barely notice any difference between a nec main and an irrelevant random player who swapped to scourge.

Also your point with synergy is just dumb.A scourge and FB has much better synergy and is much easier to play than tempest+reaper ever was:

  • Without shroud a FB can spam his heal whenever he wants, while scourge can spam his dmg skills whenever he wants
  • A scourge also supports his fb which was impossible as a reaper/tempest duo
  • Both fb and scourge have the best rezz abilities ingame
  • A scourge keeps damaging while kiting together with a fb which also was not possible as reaper+tempest
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So frustrating to see that the necromancer barely dodge, never bother to block, just stand there eating the beating and still survive. It's obvious from their gameplay that necromancer's players are mechanically poor, can't they at least use some skills to block, evade skills, give themself vigor or instantly port to avoid taking the burst? It would be a lot less frustrating that hitting them like undying sandbags.

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@XECOR.2814 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

Oh boy, this post just shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the issue being discussed. It's almost not worth responding to, but knowing the balance team, they would actually listen to incredibly short-sighted posts like this one.

The problem with fb/scourge isn't that they work together and communicate. Reaper/tempest worked together in HoT meta and it was fine. The problem is that scourge can stand still and spam endless AoEs on the point while the firebrand spams endless support keeping them both alive. It's faceroll, easy mode, anti-fun garbage like this that has ruined PvP and chased off all former pro players. And no, it's not just fb+scourge that are spammy easy mode trash, but they are by far the longest withstanding offenders, having been a problem since the launch of PoF.

You are living in the past. If you are not high rated yourself look at streams of high rated players there are many counters to fb+scg comp. You know what is easy mode? Rev, sb, chrono. Scg does not have endless aoe and fb does not have infinite support. You are delusioned by your lack of knowledge of builds, their current performance and their playstyle. Infact scg+fb comp loses to high rotation based very bursty comp and needs to adapt a lot for any chance of win. Yes, in ranked with low skilled players and no communication it would seem like fb+scg is immortal and low effort but it would be false to say it. Fb+scg is the only structure left to gw2 pvp otherwise its a who kills whom first in under a second first clown fiesta. I would rather have deathmatch in such a game than conquest.

What Chrono build are you talking about?

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

Oh boy, this post just shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the issue being discussed. It's almost not worth responding to, but knowing the balance team, they would actually listen to incredibly short-sighted posts like this one.

The problem with fb/scourge isn't that they work together and communicate. Reaper/tempest worked together in HoT meta and it was fine. The problem is that scourge can stand still and spam endless AoEs on the point while the firebrand spams endless support keeping them both alive. It's faceroll, easy mode, anti-fun garbage like this that has ruined PvP and chased off all former pro players. And no, it's not just fb+scourge that are spammy easy mode trash, but they are by far the longest withstanding offenders, having been a problem since the launch of PoF.

You are living in the past. If you are not high rated yourself look at streams of high rated players there are many counters to fb+scg comp. You know what is easy mode? Rev, sb, chrono. Scg does not have endless aoe and fb does not have infinite support. You are delusioned by your lack of knowledge of builds, their current performance and their playstyle. Infact scg+fb comp loses to high rotation based very bursty comp and needs to adapt a lot for any chance of win. Yes, in ranked with low skilled players and no communication it would seem like fb+scg is immortal and low effort but it would be false to say it. Fb+scg is the only structure left to gw2 pvp otherwise its a who kills whom first in under a second first clown fiesta. I would rather have deathmatch in such a game than conquest.

What Chrono build are you talking about?

Its a really great build called Mcdoesntexist which offers all the damage, all the defense, all the stealth, and traits into all trait lines. Truly the only build in game worth playing. It's why all the games have 30 chrono on each team. True story!

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Firebrand and Scourge is fine I wouldn't nerf or buff any of the specs.

We seen Eu Monthly Teams Win tournaments with out a Fb/Necro Combo, It's good to have them in a team comp but as we seen it isn't always the best and most viable combo to have.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:So frustrating to see that the necromancer barely dodge, never bother to block, just stand there eating the beating and still survive. It's obvious from their gameplay that necromancer's players are mechanically poor, can't they at least use some skills to block, evade skills, give themself vigor or instantly port to avoid taking the burst? It would be a lot less frustrating that hitting them like undying sandbags.

I rather have them move around and be selfish than walking death spiral that chugs barrier. Scourge literally was the one class in the beginning of PoF that not only kicked out Tempest, old Scrapper, and a lot of other HoT specs, but it basically turned mid fight into a keep away hot zone.

FB I never really cared about. It was literally Scourge that made everyone else's life hell on Earth and forced them to swivel into these builds that we have now.

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Risking a chance of stepping on toes of someone who mains scourge, I am going to add my 2 cents coming from observations from fighting scourges in general. In my humble opinion the barrier generation needs to be reduced a notch. The barrier often gives the scourge a safety net buying time until the heal goes off cooldown prolonging their longevity for longer than it should.

As for firebrand, they are OK despite the spammy nature, I don't see much as an issue.

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:So frustrating to see that the necromancer barely dodge, never bother to block, just stand there eating the beating and still survive. It's obvious from their gameplay that necromancer's players are mechanically poor, can't they at least use some skills to block, evade skills, give themself vigor or instantly port to avoid taking the burst? It would be a lot less frustrating that hitting them like undying sandbags.

I rather have them move around and be selfish than walking death spiral that chugs barrier. Scourge literally was the one class in the beginning of PoF that not only kicked out Tempest, old Scrapper, and a lot of other HoT specs, but it basically turned mid fight into a keep away hot zone.

FB I never really cared about. It was literally Scourge that made everyone else's life hell on Earth and forced them to swivel into these builds that we have now.

And scourge was nerfed quite a few time accordingly. I won't say that the shade system is satisfying in any way because it isn't but scourge right now when alone isn't even close to be able to compete on equal ground against other professions. Right now, like most said scourge in sPvP is mostly carried by FB, not the opposite.

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