Jump to content
  • Sign Up

[Discussion/Suggestion] The state of "Sic 'Em!" in PvP and WvW.


Lottie.5370

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 111
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 3 weeks later...

7PpE3Pn.png*taken from a guildie

So a Soulbeast can get these stats (full asc berserker plus 25 might, easily doable in a roaming party) and then can get a 40% dmg buff from Sic 'Em. How can you not think that is too much of a damage boost? ANYTHING you hit with is going to do insane damage, I can dismount a guy with 2 autos, then rapid fire and he's dead. It is still going to do a lot of damage if you halve the skill to say... 20% dmg for 8 seconds+and not be as obnoxious as it is now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Lottie.5370" said:7PpE3Pn.png*taken from a guildie

So a Soulbeast can get these stats (full asc berserker plus 25 might, easily doable in a roaming party) and then can get a 40% dmg buff from Sic 'Em. How can you not think that is too much of a damage boost? ANYTHING you hit with is going to do insane damage, I can dismount a guy with 2 autos, then rapid fire and he's dead. It is still going to do a lot of damage if you halve the skill to say... 20% dmg for 8 seconds+and not be as obnoxious as it is now.

"2268 armor, 17k health"

Have you considered just, I don't know, actually attacking the person?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Lottie.5370" said:
7PpE3Pn.png
*taken from a guildie

So a Soulbeast can get these stats (full asc berserker plus 25 might, easily doable in a roaming party) and then can get a 40% dmg buff from Sic 'Em. How can you not think that is too much of a damage boost? ANYTHING you hit with is going to do insane damage, I can dismount a guy with 2 autos, then rapid fire and he's dead. It is still going to do a lot of damage if you halve the skill to say... 20% dmg for 8 seconds+and not be as obnoxious as it is now.

"2268 armor, 17k health"

Have you considered just, I don't know, actually attacking the person?

Do you read????

That is the soulbeast's stats, they are then getting 40% dmg on top of that. Almost 4k power plus a 40% dmg boost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way I see it, if/when Anet does nerf it, I hope it would be done in a way that doesn't indirectly screw the pet over, too. A reduction of this skill due to how potent it can be with Soulbeast also reduces the utility's potency when used for its original purpose of buffing the pet.

Skill split is also an option, but higher bonuses should remain if used for the pet. Never forget about our pets. <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean a lot of what I see here is people saying it's OP without taking into consideration how squishy Soulbeast is.

Part of what will make or break Sic' Em is how great or terrible the player is. Yeah it's quite a powerhouse but think about it, all that damage and the one thing you're sacrificing is defense. You eat enemy HP as fast as they eat yours. If Soulbeasts screw up their play, any other profession can destroy them in a matter of seconds with the amount of HP and armor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:I mean a lot of what I see here is people saying it's OP without taking into consideration how squishy Soulbeast is.

Part of what will make or break Sic' Em is how great or terrible the player is. Yeah it's quite a powerhouse but think about it, all that damage and the one thing you're sacrificing is defense. You eat enemy HP as fast as they eat yours. If Soulbeasts screw up their play, any other profession can destroy them in a matter of seconds with the amount of HP and armor.

Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lottie.5370 said:

Bad argument, it's no squishier than ANY other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

If you think the sos and dolyak position allows a berserker ranger to survive and be more resistant, you probably have never played ranger. There is a reason they use 1 or none of these skills, and it's because they are useless (or almost) on that build. The only real advantage is the range, most classes have better tools to survive on berserker builds, perma stealth for example.

Ye disengage when they want but Thief, Mirage and Spellbreaker have the same mobility as Soulbeast and Revenant can prevent the class from escaping with Phase Traversal.

The skill you refer to is swoop of birds and not the f2 of gazelle.

Probably dps ranger will be dead even before launching the first maul, forcing this build in close combat and losing, doesn't make the OP build but the people, bad players.Many builds are capable of one-shot in game, even more efficiently, but people like to complain about rangers xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Revolution.5409 said:

Bad argument, it's no squishier than
ANY
other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

If you think the sos and dolyak position allows a berserker ranger to survive and be more resistant, you probably have never played ranger. There is a reason they use 1 or none of these skills, and it's because they are useless (or almost) on that build. The only real advantage is the range, most classes have better tools to survive on berserker builds, perma stealth for example.

Ye disengage when they want but Thief, Mirage and Spellbreaker have the same mobility as Soulbeast and Revenant can prevent the class from escaping with Phase Traversal.

The skill you refer to is swoop of birds and not the f2 of gazelle.

Probably dps ranger will be dead even before launching the first maul, forcing this build in close combat and losing, doesn't make the OP build but the people, bad players.Many builds are capable of one-shot in game, even more efficiently, but people like to complain about rangers xD

No, the skill I refer to is F2 on Gazelle since you run the Gazelle with this build. If you use it without a target, you will instead dash forwards a distance and can combine it with GS3. It seems like all the people like you on this thread expect ranger to win every single match up? Every class has its counters, and classes that out mobilise SLB or classes that can't be killed in the 4 second unlockable window are of course going to be much harder to kill.

In match-ups like power chrono or power reaper, SoS can be pretty nice to give you extra time for the last 1-2 autos you need to down them.

I have 8k hours on ranger and spent a considerable amount of time playing this build, maybe you shouldn't assume. I am not complaining about ranger, I consider Sic 'Em too strong and so made a thread suggesting a change to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suggest altering your suggestion, at the very least, so the interaction of Sic 'Em is reduced with Soulbeast but only in Beastmode like Attack of Opporunity. Otherwise, it also screws over the pet and further diminishes its effectiveness with builds/specs that might incorporate it outside of Soulbeast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lottie.5370 said:

Bad argument, it's no squishier than
ANY
other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

If you think the sos and dolyak position allows a berserker ranger to survive and be more resistant, you probably have never played ranger. There is a reason they use 1 or none of these skills, and it's because they are useless (or almost) on that build. The only real advantage is the range, most classes have better tools to survive on berserker builds, perma stealth for example.

Ye disengage when they want but Thief, Mirage and Spellbreaker have the same mobility as Soulbeast and Revenant can prevent the class from escaping with Phase Traversal.

The skill you refer to is swoop of birds and not the f2 of gazelle.

Probably dps ranger will be dead even before launching the first maul, forcing this build in close combat and losing, doesn't make the OP build but the people, bad players.Many builds are capable of one-shot in game, even more efficiently, but people like to complain about rangers xD

No, the skill I refer to is F2 on Gazelle since you run the Gazelle with this build. If you use it without a target, you will instead dash forwards a distance and can combine it with GS3. It seems like all the people like you on this thread expect ranger to win every single match up? Every class has its counters, and classes that out mobilise SLB or classes that can't be killed in the 4 second unlockable window are of course going to be much harder to kill.

In match-ups like power chrono or power reaper, SoS can be pretty nice to give you extra time for the last 1-2 autos you need to down them.

I have 8k hours on ranger and spent a considerable amount of time playing this build, maybe you shouldn't assume. I am not complaining about ranger, I consider Sic 'Em too strong and so made a thread suggesting a change to it.

A nerf is not a suggestion.

I don't expect the rangers to win every game, in my comments in this post you'll see that I say the opposite, the build has enough counters and I'm fine with that.

There is no need to show you that the ranger with sickem has damage equal to other professions and not superior, you say it yourself in the initial post, you need it to get the same dps as other professions and in wvw it's the same, I don't understand because it should be different.So if a ranger gets 20k rapid fire it's OP, and revenant with 15k dps every 4 seconds with CoR or elementalist with 10k hits with meteor shower is normal, and this is contradictory for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@bigo.9037 said:

@bigo.9037 said:you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea
the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes
. Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them
weakness
because it does not fit with the game itself.
This game is not WoW
with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

dude stop with the parody already, somebody tested the actual damage and defined the increase as 25% in pvp modesThe tip can say whatever you want, its not like the first time we have a worng tip... Do you want another example? Check invigorating bond and how it does not shows the increased healing when investing in healing power.

If you think that person was wrong, go do some tests in wvw and share the results. We have ArcDPS now that works pretty well for testing. And from my personal testing i can assure you its 25%

The soulbeast dont need no nerf on any of the skills. What i would do is to rework the traitline so the soulbeast get the benefits of the specialitation while the target is close, lets say like 600 units.

Over than that and the damage lose all the extra benefits. Soulbeast the same as the druid is a complete mess with no clear direction of what should excel at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lottie.5370 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:I mean a lot of what I see here is people saying it's OP without taking into consideration how squishy Soulbeast is.

Part of what will make or break Sic' Em is how great or terrible the player is. Yeah it's quite a powerhouse but think about it, all that damage and the one thing you're sacrificing is defense. You eat enemy HP as fast as they eat yours. If Soulbeasts screw up their play, any other profession can destroy them in a matter of seconds with the amount of HP and armor.

Bad argument, it's no squishier than
ANY
other class wearing zerker gear. You can do this damage and still be running signet of stone/trait or dolyak stance, kinda removes the squishy aspect. You have insane mobility with greatsword and Gazelle F2 so you can disengage whenever you want, also stealth on LB3.

If any profession in zerker gear screws up their play, any profession can destroy that person.

Soulbeast doesn't need a 40% damage boost to kill something, you still do 6-8k lb auto crits, your gs2 still hits 8-10k and you can do it twice in 2 seconds whilst stunning the enemy. Nothing makes or breaks Sic 'Em, a terrible player is still terrible with it, a good player is still good without it.

Lots of hyperbole and hype in your argument, but honestly, running stats like you're suggesting mean that you get 1-shot by other classes running much tankier gear. I can say this because this happened to me in WvW the other day since I mainly sPvP and PvE, but tossed on a bit of marauder gear with my zerk gear to jump in wvw for a bit.

Sic 'em does give some strong burst, but if it did anything less, there would be even less rangers in WvW since they're already piss poor in group fights where projectile hate is too much for even windows of unblockable attacks to make much of a difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What ranger needs is a nerf to soulbeast, and a friggin viable zerg build. Druids staff is a good candidate for a zerg weapon, and with some adjustments to traits rangers might hold a place in a zerg after so many years. Soulbeast is overperforming, and we all know it. You can easily try it in wvw. But balancing a profession is not only nerfing a huge part of it to the ground. There are so many good possibilities for rangers if only anet dares to work on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@bigo.9037 said:The fact that the skill isn't even a must for the build just gives anet all the more reason to nerf it.

Wat.

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:BM and SLB offer more than enough dmg modifier, MM isn't neccessary. And even MM builds can have sufficient condi cleanse to deal with almost all condi builds.Also builds shouldn't get balanced arround the mount. It is mostly a broken combat avoidance and travel tool, not something used during actual fights, therefore it should be irrelevant for combat balance.

I agree, classes shouldn't be balanced around dismounting someone but broken combat avoidance tool should just be made not broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@alain.1659 said:What ranger needs is a nerf to soulbeast, and a friggin viable zerg build. Druids staff is a good candidate for a zerg weapon, and with some adjustments to traits rangers might hold a place in a zerg after so many years. Soulbeast is overperforming, and we all know it. You can easily try it in wvw. But balancing a profession is not only nerfing a huge part of it to the ground. There are so many good possibilities for rangers if only anet dares to work on it.

With the latest changes that anet has made to druid, it is far from having a zerg build.Staff is used only for astral force for CA without a rework it remains useless in all circumstances because it is not able to do damage.In any case it would be less than FB because druid has no access to bubbles or stability and the spirits are totally useless in wvw and even if they could move they would have the same problem as pets.

I know that the classes that outperform in wvw are Scourge, FB, Revenant and SpellBreaker that occupy all the places in the zergs since the release of PoF and leave nothing to others, a build meme like soulbeast, DE, mirage, Berserker or any other profession , which kills roamers noob with few skills does not create me any problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@anduriell.6280 said:

@bigo.9037 said:you repeat yourself quite a lot. Just so you can get the idea
the game is not designed to provide dumb weakness and artificial limitations to classes
. Your mantra of nerfing soulbeast just for the sake of it is ridiculous.

No other class in game has the limitations or how you call them
weakness
because it does not fit with the game itself.
This game is not WoW
with their rigid class system, so stop pushing your agenda to make it so.

Sic'em doesnt need to be nerfed, the increased damage in wvw is a 25% for 6 seconds. The core utilities don't need no nerf, it needs buffing. Ranger still keeps outdated skills and mechanics which has been nerfed and never balanced again for a fun gameplay.

What is should be looked upon is the soulbeast itself and make sure damage the extra damage isnt applied when the foes are over 600 units away. As general design it seems the soulbeast was designed with this burst damage in mind but more melee oriented.

But for that the trait line should be redesigned so the traits reinforce that gameplay.

You are wrong. It clearly says 40% dmg increase, and the dmg buff lasts for 10 WHOLE SECONDs. The reveal effect is what lasts 6 seconds.Seriously. If you can't play an entire class without sicem, you are just not a good ranger in the first place. I've been playing for so many years without using it. I use it for lulz dmg, but when I want to duel people I swap it out with either QZ or protect me.

This means that sicem isn't necessarily OP in all scenarios cus it's not the end all and be all, but it is "broken" in the sense that it's really unhealthy for the game. 1shots aren't really funny for everyone else except the ranger himself.

dude stop with the parody already,
somebody tested the actual damage and defined the increase as 25% in pvp modes
The tip can say whatever you want, its not like the first time we have a worng tip... Do you want another example? Check invigorating bond and how it does not shows the increased healing when investing in healing power.

If you think that person was wrong, go do some tests in wvw and share the results. We have ArcDPS now that works pretty well for testing. And from my personal testing i can assure you its 25%

The soulbeast dont need no nerf on any of the skills.
What i would do is to rework the traitline so the soulbeast get the benefits of the specialitation while the target is close, lets say like 600 units.

Over than that and the damage lose all the extra benefits. Soulbeast the same as the druid is a complete mess with no clear direction of what should excel at.

Sic 'Em is a 40% damage buff, not 25%, for a merged soulbeast. As you say, it's been tested, and it's a clear 40% increase in damage. I've tested it myself in both sPvP and WvW and got the same result (40%), so not sure why your own tests came up short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...